More XOHM Reviews Roll In Speeds, price are nice -- coverage, devices lacking... Computer World runs Sprint's new XOHM mobile WiMax service through its paces and comes away impressed -- though like most other reviews laments the poor coverage, lack of supported hardware, and occasional glitch. The report notes that Baltimore has 180 WiMax towers in use, out of an expected total of 300 when the deployment is complete. Using a Lenovo ThinkPad X301 with built-in WiMax, the reviewer tested the network at six locations around the city, seeing peak speeds of 4.4Mbit/sec., with a third less latency than AT&T's HSDPA network.
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 | | 4G Is Here! It's gonna be a long time before Xohm rolls out nationwide but the early results are promising indeed. Clearly Xohm makes all previous wireless data solutions look laughable by comparison. | |
|  | | | | | | Re: 4G Is Here! said by Romney2012:Of course, this is with an XOHM network that is very lightly used. Will those numbers hold up if or when it has to handle many more simultaneous users? Managing backhaul capacity is a challenge for all 3G/4G carriers. When they start using WiMAX itself as a backhaul to other sites (802.16m to provide up to 1Gbps fixed LOS), backhaul will be more easily manageable due to dynamic allocation to each site as needed. At least WiMAX is a pure IP network and is already more manageable than 3G. 3G is voice first, data second. 4G is designed for pure data. | |
| | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: 4G Is Here! CDMA EVDO is pure data, however, carriers must balance EVDO requirements with 1x voice for spectrum. AFAIK, Xohm has gobs of spectrum, making the main issue... backhaul.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by Romney2012:Of course, this is with an XOHM network that is very lightly used. Will those numbers hold up if or when it has to handle many more simultaneous users? Exactly. When EVDO came out, every one was seein 1.5 or 2 or even 2.2 mbit speeds, then in a few months it came down and its been like that ever since. Anyone using Xohm right now gets the entire channel/all time slots and all backhaul and effectively the whole tower to themselves.
Give it 2-3 years, and Xohm will go just like Verizon needing caps or face fractional T1 speeds/CDMA 1X speeds/EDGE. | |
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2 edits | Re: 4G Is Here! Give it 2-3 years, and Xohm will go just like Verizon needing caps or face fractional T1 speeds/CDMA 1X speeds/EDGE.
Managing 4G networks is not the same as 3G but every network has a capacity point. 4G's is higher than 3G, cable is higher than 4G, FIOS is higher than cable, etc. In the end, network capacity has to be managed somehow, no matter the platform. Caps is just one solution, not the only solution. It doesn't make sense to point out that Xohm may have caps someday because it is true of virtually all providers, so there's no purpose in pointing it out as some kind of a unique possibility. It's possible with all providers on any platform.
The chances are higher caps will happen with Verizon and ATT 4G as they have much less 4G spectrum than Sprint/Clearwire. | |
| | | | |  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: 4G Is Here! n/m you corrected quote. | |
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| | | The real credit for the technology goes to the Stanford University Smart Antennas group headed by Dr.Arogyaswami J Paulraj, whose company, Beceem Communications manufactures the chipsets via ZTE. This very very complex wimax revolution would not be commercialized except for Dr.Paulraj's pioneering work and pushing Intel to movw forward with the commercial push. | |
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| | Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance There's a lot of focus on performance but the real advantage is that any kind of device will have access to the Net more broadly. Once WiMAX/WiFi chipsets cost the same to make as a WiFi chipset, every WiFi maker will likely throw in the combo chipset. There are too many WiFi devices out there limited by patchy WiFi hotspots. That won't be as much of an issue in a couple years. We'll soon see GPS devices updating maps/traffic, streaming mp3/video players (possibly iPOD), cameras that upload pics to a service as soon as it's shot, PSP/gameboy on the go, etc. Can't do that as easily with 3G or LTE because the device maker would have to work directly with the carrier.
With LTE, the device makers will have to certify with the carriers. LTE will be mostly limited to laptops and phones with some exceptions. LTE is 3+ years out anyway, maybe 5 the way ATT is talking.
WiMAX will succeed globally but Sprint needs find many more $B for coverage to reach the same as 3G. It's wise that they are splitting off Xohm with ClearWire. Hopefully the iPCS lawsuit doesn't get in the way. | |
| | | | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance They say 300 base stations for Baltimore alone! For nationside coverage that will take millions of base stations! That will take $B's! Will Sprint have that kind of cash? At least it is fired up in Baltimore, they have to start somewere. | |
| | | | | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance said by CaptainRR:They say 300 base stations for Baltimore alone! For nationside coverage that will take millions of base stations! That will take $B's! Will Sprint have that kind of cash? WHo does have any cash these days? But anyway, will Sprint by themselves have that kind of money? Probably not, but will Sprint, Clearwire, Comcast, Time Warner, Intel, Google, and Bright House be able to come up with the cash? Maybe... | |
| | | | | WiMAX basestations cost a whole lot less than a CDMA site. And since the cellsites already exist, the only cost is to add the base station itself with extra data backhaul. It will cost a lot less to rollout WiMAX than cell service.
Dirt cheap WiMAX repeaters will be coming that can be put on any building or streelight pole, only needing power, not a hard data line. All it needs is line of site (ideally) to another WiMAX site. Consumers will be able to add WiMAX femtocells probably within a year. I wouldn't be surprised if in 3 years there would be more WiMAX offshoot peripherals than there are iPod peripherals.
It will still take $B more to reach same coverage as 3G data, but much less rollout cost overall. When Sprint splits off Xohm into the new Clearwire, investors will be able to invest just in Xohm (with little debt) instead of the whole Sprint company, increasing the chances of investment with a specific goal to rollout. Investors/companies will want WiMAX in _their_ city and where they travel. I suspect once the Xohm spinoff occurs, Google and Intel will invest even more into the new Clearwire. Intel HAS to make WiMAX work as the are almost relying on WiMAX to be the future of the company. | |
| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance said by xenophon:Dirt cheap WiMAX repeaters will be coming that can be put on any building or streelight pole, only needing power, not a hard data line. All it needs is line of site (ideally) to another WiMAX site. And cut speeds in half and waste 1/2 your precious spectrum?
Sorry wifi fanboys, licensed spectrum and cellular networks are a totally different beast from best effort unlicensed spectrum and ad hoc base station placement. | |
| | | | | | | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance relay
Usage Models (802.16j-06/015)
Mobile station unaware of changes in RS usage
Fixed Infrastructure
Purpose: Improve or extend coverage area, increase capacity/throughput
Approach: Relay stations and MMR-BSs deployed by service provider. Relays are simple to complex.
Links: LOS and NLOS
Other: Redundant routes possible. For infrastructure relays, the relays are expected to exist permanently. For client devices (relays purchased by a client), devices many enter or leave infrastructure at any time.
In-Building Coverage
Purpose: Improve coverage inside a building or tunnel (subway).
Approach: Relay deployed by either service provider or client. RSs can be fixed or nomadic. Relays are probably simple.
Links: Generally NLOS
Other: Redundant routes possible. For infrastructure relays, the relays are expected to exist permanently. For client devices (relays purchased by a client), devices many enter or leave infrastructure at any time. RSs can be inside or outside and may sometimes need to operate on battery power.
Temporary Coverage
Purpose: Provide temporary coverage to areas where the MMR-BSs and fixed RSs do not provide sufficient coverage.
Approach: Relay stations are MMR-BSs deployed by the service provider. RSs range from small and simple ot large and complex.
Links: LOS and NLOS
Other: Redundant routes possible. For infrastructure relays, the relays are expected to exist permanently. For client devices (relays purchased by a client), devices many enter or leave infrastructure at any time. RSs may sometimes need to operate on battery power. Examples of such use are disaster recovery or temporary coverage for a large event such as a convention or sporting event.
Coverage on Mobile Vehicle
Purpose: Provide coverage to MSs located on a mobile vehicle such as a bus or train.
Approach: Relay station mounted on the vehicle. RSs expected to be complex.
Links: LOS and NLOS
Other: Redundant routes possible. Devices many enter or leave infrastructure at any time.
Notes:
The IEEE 802.16j standard will not require any changes to IEEE 802.16e-2005-compliant mobile stations. However, relaying will only be possible in links involving base stations designed to the 16j standard. Such base stations are referred to as mobile multihop relaying base stations (MMR-BS), and they will be backwards compliant with 16e-2005. Relaying will only be supported for the OFDMA mode. | |
| | | | | | | said by patcat88:said by xenophon:Dirt cheap WiMAX repeaters will be coming that can be put on any building or streelight pole, only needing power, not a hard data line. All it needs is line of site (ideally) to another WiMAX site. And cut speeds in half and waste 1/2 your precious spectrum? Sprint/Clearwire combined has about 100Mhz spectrum per market, plenty of spare spectrum to use a portion for backhaul or repeaters. About 5mhz will be dedicated for femtocells alone. ATT/Verizon has about 25Mhz or so in the 700mhz space. So yeah, spectrum is more precious for them.
Not sure what the 'cut speeds in half' remark means. Doesn't make any sense. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | SipSizzurpFo' ShizzlePremium
join:2005-12-28
Houston, TX
kudos:3 | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance From your link...
It should be noted, however, that throughput in this method is halved for all clients connected to a router that is connected with WDS. You seem to be confusing "Throughput" with "Speed". They are not the same thing. Repeaters do not nessisarilty reduce speed, they only halve the available bandwidth if using a single channel for repeating. Not something that WhyMax would likely be doing anyway. Even if they do, with a potential of 100 Mbps, a repeater will still deliver 50 Mbps.
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I spent most of my money on Women and Beer, and the rest I just wasted ! | |
| | | | | | | | | | Re: Broad devices will make WiMAX worth it, not just performance Yeah, it's how the bandwidth would be distributed dynamically. One relatively inefficient scenario would be to have 20Mbps backhaul to each of 10 sites in an area. Some sites may use up all 20Mbps while others are not using half of it.
A more efficient future scenario would be to supply 100Mbps+ to an 802.16m mother hub site that serves 10 sites that are in LOS. The bandwidth can be dynamically used by each site as needed. Then you only need to manage the mother site capacity than each site individually. I would think this model is currently used with microwave backhauls, I have no idea. | |
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| | | | | I'd loan them the money for it. The issue is ho fast the content industry can catch up and optimize for XOHM. Cable investment even makes more sense here - on a broader basis, cable provides more MB capabilities (actual may be different). What could Google do with more content, with a few more properties? Could XOHM/ Clearwire do to wireless which (ironically) DirecTV did to the cable business? I think it's possible, but not without content. We need the "NFL Sunday Ticket" equivalent. Live simulcasting of sporting events would be a start. | |
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| | | Yeah --- rethink that. More folks will be turning in their 3G systems not for 4G but waiting in the unemployment line. | |
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| | WiMAX will get cheaper WiMAX will get MUCH cheaper to deploy over time as it ramps up around the world. Some good and well informed posts here. A lot of mis-information out there mostly being spread by the Telco's who want to see WiMAX fail so they can push their more expensive and more restrictive and more advantageous to them (less advantageous to the consumer) HSPA/LTE agenda.
WiMAX is very similar to LTE is several ways and has most of the benefits LTE has over HSPA. The difference is it is here now so it has a massively huge head start over LTE. | |
| | | | Re: WiMAX will get cheaper Yeah, I think the only people who want LTE to win and WiMAX to fail are in the telcom industry. It doesn't make sense for consumers to want more open WiMAX to fail. WiMAX has far far broader potential than 3G/LTE because the latter is controlled by the telcom industry on their terms. Like WiFi, WiMAX is controlled by IEEE, not telcoms, which the consumer electronics industry is already tied into. Look at all the WiFi products out there.
Once WiMAX/WiFi combo chipsets cost the same to make as WiFi only, the game will be over as any WiFi product maker will naturally use the combo chip. LTE won't have a chance in a broader array of devices as long it's tightly controlled by the telcom industry. The 3GGP is spending billions to put 3G into laptops. WiMAX will become standard in laptops within a year or two just because the WiMAX/WiFi chipsets will naturally replace WiFi only chipsets. | |
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| Re: WiMAX will get cheaper The only advantage I see with LTE is out in urban area's. WiMax is line of sight and great in the city. With LTE being controlled by the telco's I really dont see how it will do anything for the one's that cant get broadband to begin with. With a 5gig cap forsay who will want it to begin with? Just be intersting to see how coverage will be once Verizon Wireless ever gets LTE on 700 MHz. | |
| | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by xenophon:WiMAX has far far broader potential than 3G/LTE because the latter is controlled by the telcom industry on their terms. Like WiFi, WiMAX is controlled by IEEE, not telcoms, which the consumer electronics industry is already tied into. Look at all the WiFi products out there. All I have to do is not activate your MAC on the network, or firewall your IP address with my carrier grade router, and require HTTPS with certificate authentication from the device/client and you are in Telco walled garden hell and screwed. | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by phoneboy3 :
A lot of mis-information out there mostly being spread by the Telco's who want to see WiMAX fail so they can push their more expensive and more restrictive and more advantageous to them (less advantageous to the consumer) HSPA/LTE agenda.
And what on earth is the difference the 2 protocols have?
Anyone can make a locked down proprietary WiMAX network (Clearwire cough cough), and anyone can create an open, resellable capacity, published standards LTE network. | |
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1 edit | Re: WiMAX will get cheaper Anyone can make a locked down proprietary WiMAX network (Clearwire cough cough), and anyone can create an open, resellable capacity, published standards LTE network.
Sure, anyone can do a locked down WiMAX network just as anyone can do a locked down WiFi network. But the IEEE isn't making those decisions, the provider can choose how they use it. Device compatibility is controlled by IEEE, not necessarily the provider.
In the case of LTE, don't bet on a wide range of devices as will likely occur with WiMAX. It takes a great deal of product lifecycle development in consumer electronics industry to deal with 3GGP/carriers. In the IEEE world, product makers are already tuned into it and can get a product out quickly with no involvement with carriers, like WiFi today.
When WiFi/Wimax chipsets get down to the same price as WiFi only, the existing product makers will naturally drop in the combo chip. Game over when that happens. And it's likely to occur before the first LTE device ships. People will be buying laptops that happen to have WiMAX and they may not know it. When a hotspot appears, they may think it's WiFi when it's actually WiMAX.
When most laptops have WiFi/WiMAX as a standard (maybe just a year or so away), the WiMAX network will be self-marketing when WiFi is not available. When a self-marketing network can be demonstrated, it will be easier to get investors to fund additional rollouts. | |
| | | | | | Re: WiMAX will get cheaper said by xenophon:Anyone can make a locked down proprietary WiMAX network (Clearwire cough cough), and anyone can create an open, resellable capacity, published standards LTE network.
Sure, anyone can do a locked down WiMAX network just as anyone can do a locked down WiFi network. But the IEEE isn't making those decisions, the provider can choose how they use it. Device compatibility is controlled by IEEE, not necessarily the provider. In the case of LTE, don't bet on a wide range of devices as will likely occur with WiMAX. It takes a great deal of product lifecycle development in consumer electronics industry to deal with 3GGP/carriers. In the IEEE world, product makers are already tuned into it and can get a product out quickly with no involvement with carriers, like WiFi today. currently, devices have to be approved by Sprint before they can be used on Xohm.
»gigaom.com/2008/10/08/sprints...···lf-open/
And it's not just that the device model has to be approved, you currently can only register by entering the MAC address of your particular device. If you want to switch between two different WiMax devices at different times, you have to register both devices. | |
| | | | | | | Re: WiMAX will get cheaper Yeah, I've noticed Sprint is 'currently' doing this. It's like when ethernet first started, there were incompatibilities between different ethernet vendors, especially switches and routers, even though it was all IEEE. When WiMAX compatibility across vendors matures, WiMAX Forum certification will be enough. But any 802.16e 2.5Ghz device 'should' work with Xohm. They're just doing an extra layer of certification for now. Not many WiMAX providers will do this in the short term.
It's kinda looks bad for the sake of openness but it makes sense to do while the industry is so young and compatibilities need to be certain. | |
| | | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | Re: WiMAX will get cheaper said by xenophon:Yeah, I've noticed Sprint is 'currently' doing this. It's like when ethernet first started, there were incompatibilities between different ethernet vendors, especially switches and routers, even though it was all IEEE. When WiMAX compatibility across vendors matures, WiMAX Forum certification will be enough. But any 802.16e 2.5Ghz device 'should' work with Xohm. They're just doing an extra layer of certification for now. Not many WiMAX providers will do this in the short term. It's kinda looks bad for the sake of openness but it makes sense to do while the industry is so young and compatibilities need to be certain. Sprint will never allow just "any" device to register. How on earth will they have different price tiers for different devices? What will stop me from registering a laptop card as a wimax Kindle and get free internet or vice versa?
How can there be any "partnering" if you can't lock down devices, or lock down the network from devices?
Also what would stop me from MAC spoofing and getting free internet hax0red cable modem style?
How can FCC requirements such as interference, bands, radiation, and big brother chip (GPS) be enforced if just any device can connect? For example korean CDMA phones don't come with GPS and will never be legal to activate in USA, but people ESN change them or use prepaid providers with poor systems that allow any ESN on. | |
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| | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
kudos:1 | said by SD6:And it's not just that the device model has to be approved, you currently can only register by entering the MAC address of your particular device. If you want to switch between two different WiMax devices at different times, you have to register both devices. Heh, LTE AKA 4G GSM will come with SIM cards. Wimax is locked up as USA CDMA (non-USA CDMA comes with RUIM cards which are basically the same thing to the user, USA CDMA providers refused to adopt RUIM cards because they removed control). | |
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 Smile__Premium
join:2008-10-10
New Freedom, PA | Just avg speeds of 4mb? I have seen speeds as high as 8mb/3mb in Bmore... WIMAX is endless.. look forward to the DC launch...  | |
| | | WiMax In B'more I was so impressed with the speed that I saw at the XOHM Kiosk in downtown Baltimore, that I purchased the modem and the adapter for my laptop (called the "Pick 2" plan $50/month for life). There is no contract nor early termination fee and they say no data cap (we'll see how long that lasts).
Unfortunately, I only checked the coverage by Zipcode not exact address (turns out that I am in between 2 areas of good coverage (by a few blocks) and only getting one bar out of 3 for signal strength on the modem. I will hang on to the hardware and wait until I have a good home signal via the modem (before I activate my plan) and connect to my airport extreme router and use XOHM as my home ISP. And use my laptop card to roam. I hope the speeds improve though. At speedtest.net I witnessed downloads of 5.6mbps and uploads of 2.5mbps (latency about 100ms compared to I believe 400 mbps if I remember correctly with HSPA from ATT).
If the coverage area does not include my house within 2 weeks, I will return the hardware and wait patiently (with my money back in my pocket).
Wayne | |
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See 11 replies to this post | |
| | Xohm I just purchased Xohm Friday and have had it running non-stop since then. I have been totally impressed with my performance which is much better than any service I have had save perhaps Fios, but they are essentially equivalent. I have run speedtest several times since I purchased Xohm and the numbers have been surprising. While I get slightly different numbers each time I do it the average has been 6 m/ps download and 1.2 m/ps upload from my location in South Baltimore/Federal Hill. Not bad and better than advertised. I am sure they will have some growing pains as the network subscriber base grows, but considering the alternatives in the area this is the best bang for the buck I have seen. | |
| | Smile__Premium
join:2008-10-10
New Freedom, PA | Re: Xohm Wow.. Good to hear.. | |
| | | | Jealous in harford county only have Comcast no Fios no XOHM
Darn | |
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Re: 4G Is Here!
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