Motorola Offers Cable a FTTH Path - 'Cable PON' solution a FiOS counterpunch?

Motorola Offers Cable a FTTH Path
'Cable PON' solution a FiOS counterpunch?
(old news - 09:25AM Tuesday May 08 2007)
tags: Fiber · business · hardware · bandwidth · cable · networking

Motorola is offering cable providers an easy upgrade path should they want to offer some FTTH deployments. Motorola's "Cable PON" solution combines Passive Optical Network (PON) architecture and Hybrid-Fiber-Coaxial (HFC) architecture -- allowing cable to run fiber alongside coax for instances such as lighting a development with FTTH. "At some point, optimization of the (cable) network becomes more expensive than simply deploying," suggested a capacity report cited by the Wall Street Journal last summer.

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Forums » Motorola Offers Cable a FTTH Path


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proletarian join:2007-01-08 00000	"Want FiOS from your Cable Company?" Does someone need to remind PC Magazine that FiOS trademarked term belonging to Verizon?
	permalink · 2007-05-08 09:28:44 ·

Rob In Deo speramus Premium join:2001-08-25 Kendall, FL ·Comcast ·AT&T Southeast	Re: "Want FiOS from your Cable Company?" said by proletarian : Does someone need to remind PC Magazine that FiOS trademarked term belonging to Verizon? I'm sure it was intentional. -- YourIP.US - It's Your IP .. and more! rr.cx - Personal Site.. coming soon.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 09:35:48 ·

JSRoman Premium join:2005-03-10 Callahan, FL	So what should we call fiber optic services going to a home? Sounds to me like Verizon is going to have a hard time enforcing that trademark. -- www.seabee.org
	permalink · 2007-05-08 09:52:08 ·

nixen
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Re: "Want FiOS from your Cable Company?"

said by JSRoman

:

So what should we call fiber optic services going to a home? Sounds to me like Verizon is going to have a hard time enforcing that trademark.

Verizon coined FiOS as a marketing name for the untrademarkable acronym, "FTTH". So, unless you're referring specifically to a Verizon-branded FTTH product, you should simply call it "FTTH".
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

permalink · 2007-05-08 10:22:34 · Print ·

lesopp join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL	Fiber VIP (Video, Internet, Phone) Fiber VIPs (Video, Internet, Phone Service) Fiber TIP (Television, Internet, Phone) Fiber TIPs (Television, Internet, Phone service) TIPOFF (Television, Internet, Phone over Functioning Fiber)
	permalink · 2007-05-08 11:19:31 ·

Kearnstd Elf Wizard join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ	said by proletarian : Does someone need to remind PC Magazine that FiOS trademarked term belonging to Verizon? maybe so but its also the most public FTTH push so more people know about it. best to use what people can relate to. -- [65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
	permalink · 2007-05-08 09:55:51 ·

nixen
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Re: "Want FiOS from your Cable Company?"

said by Kearnstd

said by proletarian

:

Does someone need to remind PC Magazine that FiOS trademarked term belonging to Verizon?

maybe so but its also the most public FTTH push so more people know about it. best to use what people can relate to.

And, given Verizon's horde of lawyers, they will probably try to prevent FiOS from becoming a "kleenex" or "xerox" typ of term.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

permalink · 2007-05-08 10:24:36 · Print ·

pinot noir Premium join:2007-04-23 Columbus, OH	Cable a FTTH I figured it was just a matter of time before the cable companies would begin FTTH. Their fiber runs deep into the neighborhoods already in most cases, just not quite to the house.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 09:55:05 ·

brooklynman4 join:2004-09-07 Brooklyn, NY	Re: Cable a FTTH I believe its a goverment standard that all cable and teleco will be following.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 10:24:09 ·

Loker
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Constantine, MI
clubs:

1. This is not the cable companies doing it, this is just Motorola marketing say "Hey you guys if you want to throw oodles of money at us for almost no benefit at the moment feel free"

2. I don't see cable companies doing any widespread FTTH push for at LEAST 5-7 years probably longer.

3. This one is more of a question but why is everyone so convinced coax is dead when it still has legs and can still be competitive for at least another 10-15 years.

benefits of fiber with the cable industry would not be seen for a long time...with the phone industry it makes since seeing as their current networks are so poor.
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking

permalink · 2007-05-08 10:25:52 · Print ·

ke4pym

join:2004-07-24
Charlotte, NC

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Re: Cable a FTTH

said by Loker

:

3. This one is more of a question but why is everyone so convinced coax is dead when it still has legs and can still be competitive for at least another 10-15 years.

Because hacks such as SDV and bit caps are just that. Hacks. And as the headline says - eventually it will cost more to manage the network than it is to simply upgrade it.

In order to have true IPTV and other new services that won't really work (like on-demand movies (a la AppleTV) to the home in HD and with the title breadth of a local Blockbuster) we're going to need 100-200mbps to the home. While copper from the curb could certainly handle this, it couldn't do it from the neighborhood with today's technology. And if you're going to pull fiber to the curb, you might as well go ahead and pull it all the way to the home.

permalink · 2007-05-08 10:58:32 · Print ·

Loker
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edit:
May 8th, @11:14AM

Re: Cable a FTTH

said by ke4pym

said by Loker

:

3. This one is more of a question but why is everyone so convinced coax is dead when it still has legs and can still be competitive for at least another 10-15 years.

Because hacks such as SDV and bit caps are just that. Hacks. And as the headline says - eventually it will cost more to manage the network than it is to simply upgrade it.

That is just marketing spam from Motorola 'give us money and we promise it will be cheaper in the long run'...

and to the rest of your post even if you despise SDV as a hack it is still not needed...it has great benefits yes, but the dropping of all analogues is where the bandwidth is really going to be coming from...
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking

permalink · 2007-05-08 11:10:59 · Print ·

Gilitar

join:2000-11-20
Mobile, AL

·AT&T Southeast

Re: Cable a FTTH

said by Loker

said by ke4pym

said by Loker

:

3. This one is more of a question but why is everyone so convinced coax is dead when it still has legs and can still be competitive for at least another 10-15 years.

Because hacks such as SDV and bit caps are just that. Hacks. And as the headline says - eventually it will cost more to manage the network than it is to simply upgrade it.

Yep, when cable drops the analog channels there will be plenty of bandwidth. I agree with you Loker, I don't see where the cable companies need to upgrade to fiber in the next 10-15 years.

permalink · 2007-05-08 11:50:54 · Print ·

majortom1029 join:2006-10-19 Lindenhurst, NY	The coaxial can handle this. Heck cablevision is testing it now with the narad tech. IF narad can do it then docsis 3 can certainly do it all so. The cable companies dont have to switch to ftth yet.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:15:35 ·

djrobx

join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA

·DSL EXTREME

quote:
In order to have true IPTV and other new services that won't really work (like on-demand movies (a la AppleTV) to the home in HD and with the title breadth of a local Blockbuster) we're going to need 100-200mbps to the home. While copper from the curb could certainly handle this, it couldn't do it from the neighborhood with today's technology. And if you're going to pull fiber to the curb, you might as well go ahead and pull it all the way to the home.

I don't think they need to bring fiber all the way to the home in order to accomplish what they want. Coax, unlike twisted pair, has a TON of capacity potential. They just need to push fiber closer to the tap and make it operate more like a switched network. Even using today's QAM256 standard, that's 36mbps per 6mhz channel. If they allocate 800mhz of spectrum that's 133 channels. 133 * 36 = 4788mbps. Of course, that's not even the full potential. Some stacked satellite installs push data up to 2000mhz down RG6 coax.

The "problem" with existing cable networks isn't the capacity of the copper, it's that the vast majority of the available capacity is being consumed by broadcast data. SDV doesn't strike me as a hack, it's really more like the first evolutionary step towards making cable behave like a switched network.

The advantage in leaving the last leg in coax is you don't need to rewire homes and MDUs. Not terribly unlike how the fios ONT takes the fiber from the NID and goes copper to the rest of the home. A cable company looking to emulate FIOS could simply put the "fiber termination device" in the tap.

-- Rob
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.

permalink · 2007-05-08 18:42:03 · Print ·

ninjatutle join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. Your set top boxes suck. You can't do video right.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 12:22:00 ·

HydroponiK nom nom nom Premium join:2001-08-03 New Jersey ·Optimum Online	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. said by ninjatutle : Your set top boxes suck. You can't do video right. Their phones suck too, but they are just too pretty. -- Ain't that a bitch.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 12:26:42 ·

Loker Premium join:2004-07-11 Constantine, MI clubs:	said by ninjatutle : Your set top boxes suck. You can't do video right. I don't know if I blame the set top boxes, they are quite powerful and feature packed. I think the fault lies more with the software cable companies distribute on them... -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
	permalink · 2007-05-08 12:48:54 · Print ·

ninjatutle join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. If the OS/UI sucks on the units, they could have ditch those foreign coders or could have always gone to a different vendor.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:01:12 ·

Loker Premium join:2004-07-11 Constantine, MI clubs:	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. said by ninjatutle : If the OS/UI sucks on the units, they could have ditch those foreign coders or could have always gone to a different vendor. what does that have to do with Motorola? -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:01:49 · Print ·

ninjatutle join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. Motorolas name is on the box
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:09:16 ·

Loker Premium join:2004-07-11 Constantine, MI clubs:	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. said by ninjatutle : Motorolas name is on the box they are not the ones who made the software and loaded it on there... -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:16:00 · Print ·

ninjatutle join:2006-01-02 San Ramon, CA	Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones.. Then who did? Was it by little gnomes who snuck in Moto's plant at night?
	permalink · 2007-05-08 13:27:05 ·

Loker
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Constantine, MI
clubs:

Re: Motorola, just stick to cell phones..

said by ninjatutle

:

Then who did? Was it by little gnomes who snuck in Moto's plant at night?

I already said it was the cable companies! They pick which software is run on the Moto boxes not Motorola...blame Comcast or whoever else you have...
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking

permalink · 2007-05-08 13:35:40 · Print ·

MattE
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From the horses mouth

I just went on a tour of a Time Warner Regional Data Center last week. They won't be upgrading to FTTH any time soon as they have some very exciting technology that will allow 1Gbps over the coax coming into your home.

I think a lot of pundits forget, only Verizon is installing FTTH in any significant quantities, when one of the guys on the tour asked why Time Warner wasn't, he replied with that exactly ... the demand isn't there and the cost is too high when they have plenty of capacity left in the HFC plant.
--
Oh I'm so creative and all my programs are so easy to use ...

permalink · 2007-05-08 12:52:57 · Print ·

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA

Re: From the horses mouth

said by MattE

:

I think a lot of pundits forget, only Verizon is installing FTTH in any significant quantities, when one of the guys on the tour asked why Time Warner wasn't, he replied with that exactly ... the demand isn't there and the cost is too high when they have plenty of capacity left in the HFC plant.

Verizon with their FiOS is years ahead, but I don't think much pass 2009. When the demand for Bandwidth and Fiber comes it will come fast. Triple and Everything Digital Play, will suck up all the Bandwidth in Coax, and only FTTH will be the answer. So the people that think Verizon is spending needless money will be very surprised when everyone else will be scrambling, and Verizon will be in control.

permalink · 2007-05-08 14:15:51 · Print ·

MPScan
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join:2001-08-24
Boston, MA

said by MattE

:

...he replied with that exactly ... the demand isn't there and the cost is too high when they have plenty of capacity left in the HFC plant.

'Yet' is the key word there. FTTH has the capacity to deliver the things that we haven't even thought up yet.

When cable internet first came into the market, the "capacity left in the copper plant" (DSL) was sufficient to provide service comprable to cable. Now, we realize that copper has an upper limit and cable is the tech. of choice.

Well, this is going to play itself over again in about 20 years. Cable will reach the upper limit just as copper did, and FTTH will be right there to pick up the slack.

permalink · 2007-05-08 14:19:20 · Print ·

pinot noir Premium join:2007-04-23 Columbus, OH edit: May 8th, @05:26PM	said by MattE : I just went on a tour of a Time Warner Regional Data Center last week. I bet the tour was pretty fascinating. Were you able to get any pictures? Probably not. I've always wanted to be able to tour the TWC head end here in Columbus, as well as the ATT CO here.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 17:23:52 ·

MattE
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Re: From the horses mouth

said by pinot noir

said by MattE

:

I just went on a tour of a Time Warner Regional Data Center last week.

I bet the tour was pretty fascinating. Were you able to get any pictures? Probably not. I've always wanted to be able to tour the TWC head end here in Columbus, as well as the ATT CO here.

Unfortunately no pictures. I didn't even ask. It was incredible though. Seeing the huge racks of storage arrays for VoD, the digital to analog and analog to digital conversion servers. The fiber Cisco routers that stood floor to ceiling!

The coolest part was everything was fiber pretty much. There was hardly any twisted-pair or coax even.

Some of the things they are testing and will be installing in a few years is pretty amazing. 100Gbps fiber through a single fiber pair using DWDM was the one that stands out in my mind. (10 x 10Gbps links)
--
Oh I'm so creative and all my programs are so easy to use ...

permalink · 2007-05-08 23:31:14 · Print ·

pinot noir Premium join:2007-04-23 Columbus, OH	Re: From the horses mouth That sounds very cool indeed! I envy your tour.
	permalink · 2007-05-09 07:10:25 ·

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

what does this matter?

How does this figure with docis 3.0 making its way to cable operators during this and the next few years?
In docsis 3.0, fttn seems much more robust than what a motorola hfc network (proprietary) could do... at least in the whitepapers. I doubt many operators are willing to run untested/proven proprietary despite cablevision's toying with narad 100/100 megabit vhfc networks. No vendors are making such equipment CHEAP as in pennies on the dollar, so it seems like a ploy to gain some interest here.

permalink · 2007-05-08 15:42:43 ·

majortom1029

join:2006-10-19
Lindenhurst, NY

Re: what does this matter?

The thing about narads technology is its expandable.

Narad tech can also do ftth without an equipmnent change . so cablevision can make a house either have a 100/100 connection via coax or upto 1 gig using ftth.

Cablevision can use this tech to provide the high speed connections to compete with fios while using the docsis network for the slower speed connections.

With the narad tech cablevision can compete now while waiting for the docsis 3 tech to be ready to be deployed.

permalink · 2007-05-09 08:56:04 ·

decadent Premium join:2002-04-02 Piscataway, NJ	suggestion :) DSLReports should build a lab and test different kinds of broadband technologies for performance, price, usability and ease of deployment
	permalink · 2007-05-08 16:11:26 ·

ccanucklhead @shawcable.net	Yes they do Motorola does put the software on the boxes by the way.
	permalink · 2007-05-08 19:23:40 ·

Loker Premium join:2004-07-11 Constantine, MI clubs:	Re: Yes they do said by ccanucklhead : Motorola does put the software on the boxes by the way. no it is chose by the cable company. -- "While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
	permalink · 2007-05-08 20:59:56 ·

ccunucklhead @shawcable.net	Re: Yes they do motorola programs them and the cable company gets its from them
	permalink · 2007-05-08 21:17:05 ·

Loker
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Constantine, MI
clubs:

Re: Yes they do

said by ccunucklhead :

motorola programs them and the cable company gets its
from them

No the cable companies decide what software is loaded onto the boxes. There are so many that can be loaded on the Motorola boxes...

The tan guide
iGuide
Tivo
Passport
MicrosoftTV
Moxi
Lots of other smaller ones

It is all up to the cable company not Motorola...
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking

permalink · 2007-05-08 22:11:08 · Print ·

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