 zed260
join:2007-09-30
Cleveland, TN | bad idea they already make millions from google they dont need any more | |
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 | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: bad idea They probably want a revenue source separate from Google- who knows if Google will decide one day it wants a "Google Browser"? | |
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| Warez_Zealot
Mr. Misanthrope
join:2006-04-19
St Catharines, ON
| yeah, very bad idea.. I'm sure the opt in will be like those apps that try to slide in a Google/yahoo tool bar during install. You won't catch it if you are a person who clicks next repeatedly until install completes.. Damn, now I'll have to change to Opera.... | |
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R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA
 ·Comcast
| Re: bad idea said by Warez_Zealot  :yeah, very bad idea.. I'm sure the opt in will be like those apps that try to slide in a Google/yahoo tool bar during install. You won't catch it if you are a person who clicks next repeatedly until install completes.. Damn, now I'll have to change to Opera.... Wait... so you want them to code the install procedure like Vista does when you want to change something?
- You clicked Next. Are you sure?
- You clicked you're sure. Are you sure?
The google toolbar install is on its own screen with the user having to actively click next before moving to the next one. You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. At some point, the responsibility has to be in the user's hands. | |
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| | | 
Anon1111
@comcast.net | Re: bad idea If it's a true opt-in, then you would have to opt-in (click the check box). | |
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R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA
·Comcast
| Re: bad idea said by Anon1111 :
If it's a true opt-in, then you would have to opt-in (click the check box).
Who says it won't be?
I wasn't saying the Google toolbar was a true opt-in. I was just giving an example of how some users bring it on themselves by not doing their job. | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
| said by zed260 :they already make millions from google they dont need any more Not from me they don't. mozilla only gets kickbacks if you use the google dropdown which i DON'T USE!
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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| soccerguy
join:2004-06-28
Seattle, WA | So much for Mozilla being different. | |
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| | james1
join:2001-02-26
antarctica | Re: bad idea Damn right! How dare they try to make money?! | |
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tempnexus
Premium
join:1999-08-11
Boston, MA | go for it I think they should do it and kill any support they had gained over the past few years. I say go for it and die a lonely death. | |
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| EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: go for it If it's optional and not a default setting, why would anyone care? | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: go for it said by EPS :If it's optional ... Because upon newfound money, optional morphs into opt-out, then it becomes a permanent fixture. The frog always gets boiled slowly.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | | EPS
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA | Re: go for it Well I'd have a bit more faith in Mozilla since it's not a publicly traded company, and the over-arching holding entity is a non-profit... though I suppose that could easily change very quickly. | |
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tempnexus
Premium
join:1999-08-11
Boston, MA
edit:
May 13th, @11:01AM
| said by TamaraB :said by EPS :If it's optional ... Because upon newfound money, optional morphs into opt-out, then it becomes a permanent fixture. The frog always gets boiled slowly. Bob Exactly!
Now that they gained a few percent user base they are turning into MS. Goes to show that no matter what, any company will turn into MS GIANT LIKE when given enough support.
And no, EPS have no faith in companies when money is in the picture.
Rule #1) When money is involved who cares about the consumer.
Now if their support user base dramatically drops after they implement it then they can easily copout by saying: "Oh it was on trial basis only" wait a few years and try again.
If the user base doesn't drop then HELLO perma Opt-In. | |
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| | | | lvlorpheus
join:2008-02-17
Eureka Springs, AR | Re: go for it Ahhh, come on this is Firefox, someone will write the most popular add-on ever. Perma Opt-Out for Firefox. | |
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cork1958
Cork
join:2000-02-26
Fruitport, MI
·Charter Pipeline
edit:
May 19th, @04:47AM
| said by tempnexus :said by TamaraB :said by EPS :If it's optional ... Because upon newfound money, optional morphs into opt-out, then it becomes a permanent fixture. The frog always gets boiled slowly. Bob Exactly! Now that they gained a few percent user base they are turning into MS. Goes to show that no matter what, any company will turn into MS GIANT LIKE when given enough support. And no, EPS have no faith in companies when money is in the picture. Rule #1) When money is involved who cares about the consumer. Now if their support user base dramatically drops after they implement it then they can easily copout by saying: "Oh it was on trial basis only" wait a few years and try again. If the user base doesn't drop then HELLO perma Opt-In. Nice to see all you fan boys FINALLY seeing the light. Never have liked Firefox and don't particularly care for Google either. Neither of them have ever been or ever will be the "cats a**!"
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Not that what you're suggesting is likely to happen, but if it did, you would see the source code fork and new projects pop up without the "option". | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: go for it said by openbox9 :Not that what you're suggesting is likely to happen... It ALL depends on how much money was involved. If the Firefox "model" of tracking becomes a financial success for marketers, then ANYTHING is possible. According to the Original Article: ... but it would make Mozilla more money, and isn't that why we're all on this planet? Windowz took this frog-boiling approach. When I used DOS, this was never an issue, nor was it in Windows 3.1. The entire frog-boil industry of spying and tracking was begun slowly, and it grew to the point where none interested in privacy, could ever use M$ products again.
Everything which turns a "profit" eventually turns corrupt! The term "Non-Profit" is really a misnomer. It refers to where the profits go, not to the actual making of profit itself. One of the richest, biggest, and most powerful "non-profit" on the planet is the Catholic Church.
IMHO, this would be Firefox's first step towards corruption, and ruin. Use your Calculus training, and stretch the limits of Firefox's "Money-function" to the limits, and see where it can lead.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: go for it said by TamaraB :According to the Original Article: ... but it would make Mozilla more money, and isn't that why we're all on this planet? That's Karl's commentary.said by TamaraB :IMHO, this would be Firefox's first step towards corruption, and ruin. As I've mentioned, the code will fork well before this unlikely outcome. Gotta love freely available source code  | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: go for it said by openbox9 : ... Gotta love freely available source code I do! And for literally decades I have been using such for all my computer needs. I currently run Net/FreeBSD on all my computers, from my laptop, to my servers. And, yes 'it's been "free", just like ALL "information" needs to be in a "free" society. But what does "free" mean? Does it ONLY refer to free in a monetary sense? Could not other "costs" make it not free? Costs associated with SPAM, voracious advertising, phishes, hacks.... are all real "costs". Costs associated with the non-free community exclusively! I don't want to see this type of cost, appended to "open source".
It appears to me, that this Firefox "experiment" is a probe into that possibility. Exclusively define "free" (in an open-source sense) as exclusively "monetarily free", and let the market (us) pay in another way. Freedom is then essentially lost.
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | | | | | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
·Mediacom
| Re: go for it "Free" software is about freedom, not money, hence the open availability of source code and licenses minimal restrictions regarding what you're allowed to do with the code and/or executables. Once again, if some open source projects choose to take the projects in a direction that you don't like, you have the freedom to take the code and do what you want....at least in accordance with the applicable licenses. | |
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| | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| said by TamaraB :IMHO, this would be Firefox's first step towards corruption, and ruin. Use your Calculus training, and stretch the limits of Firefox's "Money-function" to the limits, and see where it can lead. Agreed with everything you said EXCEPT that it should read "Firefox's latest step towards corruption".
People have been living with Firefox's silent embedded and money-generating Google tracking and its limiting EULA for years already. It's a big reason I use Seamonkey instead. See also their dismissive behavior toward the Mozilla suite, toward Thunderbird, and toward forks and distribution projects.
MoFoCo is not your friend. They like your money.
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
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sivran
God Save The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs: | Re: go for it I confess. I've been using Opera lately. | |
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| | | | | | | B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| Re: go for it Holy crap!
You're kidding. Hang your scaly head in shame. 
I think I'd use the Fireweasel before Opera, based only on its reputation for incompatibility (never mind the closed source part).
Is it because Opera's lighter and faster than the Monkey, or because of a general distaste for the MoFoCoDojo?
-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| 
Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
| quote:
I think they should do it and kill any support they had gained over the past few years. I say go for it and die a lonely death.
They must be teaming up with Microsoft to keep track of what people are doing.......
Unreal...... | |
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Titus Pullo
I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26 | This is fun stuff I keep an old machine running with a script that refreshes a webpage image of a gaping bunghole every 30 seconds.
Odd thing, I keep getting Preparation-H ads on pages. Hmm ...
-- | |
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newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD |  Just for the record . . .
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Spiral
No Easy Way To Be Free.
Premium
join:2003-03-04
Baltimore, MD | I need an incentive I'll opt-in if they send me an Amazon $25 coupon every month. | |
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| SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| said by Spiral :I'll opt-in if they send me an Amazon $25 coupon every month. I want $50.00 every month. Mozilla can afford it since they've become Daddy Warbucks. | |
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| ImBatman
join:2004-04-21
Lancaster, CA | They make hundreds.
Dont accept anything less than $100 and in hard cold cash, or, check. | |
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Markus
join:2005-05-27
Middlesboro, KY
| I wouldn't opt in, but... ...I don't have the same apparent hatred of the accumulation of wealth that so many here seem to have. It seems like anything a company does, even as innocuous as this opt-in tracking, sends many posters into ridiculous anti-capitalist and greedy corporations rants. | |
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See 13 replies to this post |
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sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
H0H 0H0
·Rogers Hi-Speed
Host:
Rogers
Bell Sympatico
| Track this! It's not Mozilla that I would fear in this ... it's the people to whom they sell the information. One of the biggest fears we should have on the internet is the corporate advertising companies ... It's one thing to take 8 minutes out of every half hour of television for in your face advertising, but internet ads are insidious and we have negligible control over them. | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Track this! said by sbrook :It's not Mozilla that I would fear in this ... it's the people to whom they sell the information. One of the biggest fears we should have on the internet is the corporate advertising companies In reality, isn't this one and the same? If Firefox were to "sell" data which I am a part of, don't they OWE ME a percentage? In a non-profit "open source" environment, I need to be informed, and compensated for my part in the "profit" making, no?
The two worlds are incompatible. That very incompatibility is the reason for Firefox's very existence; the fundamental disconnect between free and open, and profit-based software, is what is being attacked here.
Bad sign!
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| | 
Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud | Re: Track this! Why would you be entitled to a percentage?
Your compensation is getting to use the Mozilla browser for FREE.
Everyone expects something and is willing to give NOTHING. | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Track this! said by Skeedatl :Why would you be entitled to a percentage? If the money is a result of MY labor, I am entitled to the profits associated with it.
said by Skeedatl : Your compensation is getting to use the Mozilla browser for FREE. Exactly! My getting to use Firefox for free is the basis of it's existence. Once you begin SELLING my browsing history, it is no longer "free", I am now paying for it by having to deal with the ramifications of the sale, in the form of marketing agents harassing me for sales profit. Just look at the E-Mail/Spam industry. You pay dearly for the "right" to communicate with others. I for one, loathe to see the open-source, free, and user-supported Firefox, become just another marketing tool for corporate America!
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud | I'd opt in Why not? | |
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TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Underway
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I'd opt in said by Skeedatl :Why not? Well then, why would you use Firefox over IE? I mean, if you don't mind being tracked and your Internet use being "monetized", why not just stay with M$ IE?
Bob
--
Motor Vessel - Tamara B.
43' Long-Range Trawler
Cape Elizebeth ME.
See her Here. | |
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| |
Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud
edit:
May 13th, @12:03PM
| Re: I'd opt in How does IE track internet use?
Where does it say that the Mozilla Foundation would get income from this project?
And IF they did, what is wrong with the Mozilla Foundation getting a few bucks?
Why not opt in? | |
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R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA | I'd opt in too Keeping track of a project like Firefox is not cheap... OR we could NOT support it and let MS dictate how browsers should work. | |
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b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | technically doesn't even have a name yet How about Spyzilla or Foxtracks or Foxtrax!? 
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| SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
| Re: technically doesn't even have a name yet said by b10010011 :How about Spyzilla or Foxtracks or Foxtrax!? Those are catchy, but I think FuckYouPayMeZilla is more appropriate. | |
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DMNTD
join:2002-10-19
usa
·AT&T DSL Service
| opting-out Its simple....I don't want a little hovering ball to FOLLOW me wherever I go if I walk or drive my car!. This is the same thing...but I will watch where it goes...if nothing else they need to just do what the fake firefox sites have been doing and just demand money for the browser or support for the browser. | |
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WALL_E
join:2003-05-28
USA
| I Would Opt In I don't understand how people here are assuming the right to free, supported and maintained software like Firefox. Of course they need some revenue in order to keep the operation afloat. If you don't like it:
(1) opt-out
(2) use a forked project (K-Meleon, Camino, Seamonkey...)
(3) BUY (gasp!) a product that doesn't need to find alternative sources of revenue (Opera)
(4) stat worrying about much bigger issues than anonymous usage data. I don't see how this is any worse than the "threat" posed by cookies. 
--
A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle. | |
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| Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| Re: I Would Opt In said by WALL_E :I don't understand how people here are assuming the right to free, supported and maintained software like Firefox. Of course they need some revenue in order to keep the operation afloat. If you don't like it: (1) opt-out (2) use a forked project (K-Meleon, Camino, Seamonkey...) (3) BUY (gasp!) a product that doesn't need to find alternative sources of revenue (Opera) (4) stat worrying about much bigger issues than anonymous usage data. I don't see how this is any worse than the "threat" posed by cookies. 1. It is supposed to be opt-IN.
2. They will do with those also.
3. I'd be happy to buy Fx to stop this why wouldn't you?
4. Ha! I bet you have no idea what your browser is really doing regarding cookies. Very soon you will be able to test your browsers and you'll learn about Fx third party cookie leakage. Further who said anything about "anonymous"? You know what Charter has just done, well, this is very similar (snooping by your browser instead of by your ISP) and it is not anonymous.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason | |
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yuutomo
The Wonder Kitter
Premium
join:2001-08-27
Missoula, MT |  Extremely Bad Idea and Move..
they seem to have forgotten those 2 things. | |
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likitysplit
join:2008-01-14
Flagstaff, AZ
| Ancient News Hi team! I have been jousting with Mozilla/FF forever since it was obvious FF was collecting data on many levels with a multitude of information. I was banned from Mozillazine numerous times and they even tried to re-program the sign-in process to keep me out. I then, like others, learned how to "adjust" FF(iceweasel, since I'm on sidux), to remove any links to the outside world. I won't bore you with the particulars since most don't seem to care. The fact that they now are overtly saying they will keep track of what they have always done is not surprising. They have been emboldened by the lack of consumer awareness. For the truly paranoid there is JonDoFox. As has been mentioned already, most of the data gathered can be wildly inaccurate unless there is one person only, using one computer only, on one dialup line only, etc. So if you truly don't care, make sure you insert a unique IP address and cookies whenever you use a computer anywhere. I'm actually working on it! I guess it's the counter-measures training I had in the military. You know, my awesomely armed jet looks like a wandering seagull on radar.  | |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28 | 180 degree point of view For the 90+% who didn't actually read the article, the project is about website tracking, not user tracking, aka web analytics. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Mission Viejo, CA
clubs:
| Re: 180 degree point of view said by mod_wastrel :For the 90+% who didn't actually read the article, the project is about website tracking, not user tracking, aka web analytics. No difference in my mind whatsoever. | |
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mod_wastrel
join:2008-03-28
 ·magicjack.com
| Re: 180 degree point of view It's the difference between (a) knowing that between 1:00pm and 2:00pm there were 5,000 visitors to SomeWebSite.com and (b) knowing that between 1:00pm and 2:00pm some user visited these** 25 sites. It is different. But, that's why it's opt-in only--don't wanta, don't haveta. This data is currently being collected right now anyway by more than a few organizations, just not very reliably; your ISP, however, knows every site that you visit. There is no privacy on the Internet.
**whatever "these" happen to be. | |
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jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Beaconsfield, QC
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Money needs beg control needs Mozilla is becoming like politicians. They need money to survive, and those who provide the money tend to set priorities for Mozilla.
Google got some nasty defaults set on firefox (automatic redirect to google search for whatever illegal url you typed). You need to delve deep into the forefox advance config to disable that.
And now, they are probably getting money from some net advertising firm to develop that user tracking software.
Why should I download a version of Firefox where I'll have to spend hours trying to find the damned option to make sure it remains turned off and is never covertly turned on becauise I visited some web site with funky dangerous javascript ?
They need to focus in cleaning up the code, plugging memory leaks isntead of adding mroe and more bloatware that slows the browser down. | |
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| Thug21
join:2005-08-21 | Re: Money needs beg control needs If they add such junk, I doubt I'll keep using or recommending Firefox. It's that simple. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Already exists some There is a FF3 extension that does this already. | |
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Mozilla Considering Opt-In Browsing Tracking
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Opt-in choice means few will use it devaluing data collected
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