 
S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | The tactics are getting old.... "We'll sue you unless you do this" is extortion. I've seen gang members get indicted under RICO laws for less.
Yeah...I'll go out and buy a CD [/sarcasm]
--
BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
|
 | old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA | Re: The tactics are getting old.... Gang members don't pay the legislators for immunity, that's why they get sued under RICO. | |
|
NOVA_Guy
Obama- Commander in Thief
Premium
join:2002-03-05
 ·VOIPo
| Music industry doing evil things-- where's the surprise? Yet another story about a run-away greedy industry acting like thugs and ultimately pushing things through to hurt innocent people. Where's the story here?
Disappointment, yes. Surprise and shock, no.
This is part of why I haven't bought any new CDs in years. I refuse to help an industry who hurts innocent citizens with its profits. There's just something wrong it-- kind of like if the US were to start sending humanitarian aid and WMDs directly to Bin Laden.
What's next-- will our music industry in the US start asking the Obama administration for hand-outs from the Porkulus Package because of all the money its "losing" to piracy? As Congressman Jim Trafficant used to say, "Beam me up!"
--
It took Abraham Lincoln to free the slaves. And it's taking Barack Obama to enslave the free. | |
|
| 
funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| OFF TOPIC - Trafficant said by NOVA_Guy  :As Congressman Jim Trafficant used to say, "Beam me up!" I miss him. Sure, it was gimmicky, but when he went on a rant, everyone listened!
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL | |
|
| NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Music industry doing evil things-- where's the surprise? said by NOVA_Guy :This is part of why I haven't bought any new CDs in years. I haven't bought any RIAA CDs primarily because they've mostly produced stuff I am not interested in. They probably haven't figured out that there are smaller, niche markets they could milk, where sales may only be around 10,000 to 50,000 units, tops. They appear to only want to push product when they can sell upwards of a million units per week.
Unlike dubbed anime, where there are additional costs, due to hiring actors, translators, etc., so the unit cost of the DVD is higher than for domestic shows, soundtrack CDs are just a matter of pressing the tunes as they are currently done over the Pacific. I've seen exact duplicates of overseas CDs, duly licensed for U.S. sale, offered at half the price of the overseas version. When they are offered at all. But when they aren't, I just save a few extra $$$ for the imported CDs.
Honestly, I have not pirated any RIAA tunes at all. No need for it.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| | 
neowulf
join:2000-10-20
Port Orange, FL
| Re: Music industry doing evil things-- where's the surprise? Interesting note on anime topic. Sometimes subbed anime cost more then the same titled dubbed anime, even though all they do is add subs and no extra voice actor cost. So tell me how that makes any sense?
When imports are cheaper then domestic versions, even adding in the extra shipping you pay, you know you are just paying some greedy production middleman that really shouldn't exist at all. With more and more imports coming in with many different subs languages, it almost makes no sense, unless you really need dubbed. | |
|
| | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Music industry doing evil things-- where's the surprise? said by neowulf :Interesting note on anime topic. Sometimes subbed anime cost more then the same titled dubbed anime, even though all they do is add subs and no extra voice actor cost. So tell me how that makes any sense? That was true in the days of VHS. Anime purists were willing to pay more for the subs. However, everything is released on DVD these days, and it is easy to include both subtitled, and English overdubbed tracks on a single DVD.
When imports are cheaper then domestic versions, even adding in the extra shipping you pay, you know you are just paying some greedy production middleman that really shouldn't exist at all. With more and more imports coming in with many different subs languages, it almost makes no sense, unless you really need dubbed.
Where have you seen imports selling cheaper than domestic; except for the Taiwanese bootlegs? I consider those bootlegs to be the equivalent of trading in MPAA properties with P2P; I won't touch them.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME | I also do not nor have I bought any legal music from any of the large labels or from any artist/label who signs with the RIAA
i buy my music from artists and from small label independents | |
|
hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | Dear riaa If you are wanting to shut down the internet good luck with that. | |
|
woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA | hmmm..... Call me old fashioned, bu if there isn't a law requiring them to do so, isn't threatening them if they don't some kind of extortion? 
--
BlooMe | |
|
| me1212
join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
1 edit | Re: hmmm..... Oh you and your laws, everyone know the music thugs industry is above the law when it come to stopping priates. | |
|
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements It makes for good reading, but the fact of the matter is whether or not there is a law dictating this is immaterial to a civil lawsuit. The recording industry association in Ireland doesn't need a criminal indictment to pursue monetary damages, they only must demonstrate that a reasonable duty due to the copyright holder was breached. If they can convince a jury (or whatever Ireland uses) that ISPs should be protecting copyright, then they can collect damages.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements I'm no lawyer but...
...why should one part tell another party what to do with their private property?
Would this not be the equivalent the Telcom telling Sony to open up all of its catalogues for free? They can say what they want but unless they can prove that the carrieir is complicit (i.e. conspiring to distibute) then they have a snowballs chance in hell of getting this through.
Its the eqivalent of the postal service being held accountable for drug trafficking because drugs are sent in the mail. | |
|
| |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements No, because the third-party has no standing with respect to the copyright. What is being asserted here is that the ISPs are allowing copyright infringement to occur on their networks, and are thus complicit in those acts of infringement. Say what you will about the validity of such claims, but the copyright holder is within their rights to assert that they are owed a duty to any entity that handles their product. They just have to prove it in court.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| | | 
vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements Does Ireland have any shield laws like the US does for ISP's? | |
|
| | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH | Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements No idea, but this seems to suggest that they do not. | |
|
| | | | | 
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements said by yock :No idea, but this seems to suggest that they do not. Not that it much matters. They'd try to sue anyway just to pose a threat to the ISP.
The real fact still remains if there is no law requiring ISPs to implement the filters then there is no requirement, regardless of the copyright holders position.
Thus the need to take it up in court, and obviously the one ISP doesn't think they'd win, so they cave and settle.
Meanwhile the others have grown a pair and stood up to the industry's threats. Of course now that one has agreed, it puts the others in a position to have to do the same, so glad they're standing ground.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
|
| | | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements said by GlobalMind :Thus the need to take it up in court, and obviously the one ISP doesn't think they'd win, so they cave and settle. I don't think it is a case of not thinking they would win, but thinking that even a victory would still be costly; as King Pyhrrus found when he beat the Roman army in battle.
The entertainment industry has mountains of money to throw at this battle ...
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| | | | | | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements said by NormanS :said by GlobalMind :Thus the need to take it up in court, and obviously the one ISP doesn't think they'd win, so they cave and settle. I don't think it is a case of not thinking they would win, but thinking that even a victory would still be costly; as King Pyhrrus found when he beat the Roman army in battle. The entertainment industry has mountains of money to throw at this battle ... Ok, I'd about call that "same difference." It depends on the size of the ISP in question.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
|
| | | 
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Can the RIAA sue themselves for being complicit in acts of copyright infringement? Afterall, their product is far too easily copied/recorded in the present format being distributed. They are not taking adequate steps to lock down their own product, and therefore should be held liable for such infringements. Suing themselves seems no sillier than any of their other actions in this battle over piracy. | |
|
| | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements Ans I suppose it's not the homeowner's fault that you robbed them considering they left their front door unlocked?
Give me a break...
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| | | | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements said by yock :Ans I suppose it's not the homeowner's fault that you robbed them considering they left their front door unlocked? Give me a break... I believe there was an EU reg being discussed whereby a company whos data is compromised might be liable for such a breach.
Fun stuff.
And, jmn1207, trying to "lock down" their product won't help. In fact it'll likely make piracy worse. DRM doesn't work, we've seen it over & over.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
|
| | | | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements A company that retains private customer information does have a duty to protect it at any cost. If they cannot protect it, they shouldnt' retain it. The difference here is that the stolen information doesn't belong to them, but their customers. A company that doesn't protect their proprietary information isn't absolving a thief of their criminal act. The criminal still took something they knew didn't belong to them.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| | | | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements So this is a double edged sword. The ISP needs to protect their customers information from the RIAA, and the RIAA in turn sues for not turining over the info?
Which is has priority? Customer info or Conglomerate who is more important in the eyes of the law? | |
|
| | | | | | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements Hey, I'm not defending the lawsuit, simply pointing out that civil damages don't require criminal statutes. The failure here is whomever allowed the recording industry association to win, either by judgment or settlement.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| | | | | | | | | backness
join:2005-07-08
K2P OW2 | Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements Still the civil aggreement with the existing ISP does not equal to precedence. This will be uphill all the way. | |
|
| | | | | | |
GlobalMind
Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy
Premium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL
| said by yock :A company that retains private customer information does have a duty to protect it at any cost. If they cannot protect it, they shouldnt' retain it. Agreed. However making it a legal requirement which calls for harsh penalties has some interesting effects and gives thieves even more reason to do what they want.
said by yock :The difference here is that the stolen information doesn't belong to them, but their customers. A company that doesn't protect their proprietary information isn't absolving a thief of their criminal act. The criminal still took something they knew didn't belong to them. I don't think I said the act of not protecting data absolves a law breaker from responsibility.
Of course your statement's going down that thin line of equating copyright infringement to theft, which it very clearly, and legally, is not. 
The issue here too is that the industry is not a law enforcement agency, as much as they'd like to be. No FBI-esque jackets will change that fact. It's the same thing as that sham Business Software Alliance that thinks it is equal to law enforcement.
Those orgs cannot on their own force the ISP to divulge any information they're not required to by law.
Unless there is a court order in place to force it, the industry loses, which is why they want to sue and set precedent.
It might make them feel good and pose a bit more but it won't stop the infringement.
--
TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements Why does everyone keep trying to convince me that their premise is faulty when clearly I agree? I'm merely defending their right to argue their case in court.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
| | | | |
jmn1207
Premium
join:2000-07-19
Reston, VA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by yock :Ans I suppose it's not the homeowner's fault that you robbed them considering they left their front door unlocked? Give me a break... More similar is that the homeowner wouldn't be sued by the RIAA if someone stole a CD out of their home and made copies of it.
I suppose we should be able to sue the US Post Office if someone opens a mailbox and makes copies and distributes the contents from a Consumer Reports magazine?
Apparently we do not agree on this issue, and I strongly feel that a better solution needs to be devised. It's is far too impractical to expect our ISP's to be net nannies, in the same manner that we should not expect the US Post Office to provide locked mailboxes and all of the associated costs and resources that would be necessary for such a plan. | |
|
| | | 
Sal573890
@utoronto.ca
| said by yock :No, because the third-party has no standing with respect to the copyright. What is being asserted here is that the ISPs are allowing copyright infringement to occur on their networks, and are thus complicit in those acts of infringement. Say what you will about the validity of such claims, but the copyright holder is within their rights to assert that they are owed a duty to any entity that handles their product. They just have to prove it in court. Same could be said about UPS or postal system...
Copyright infringement items are shipped all day long through these means, but I doubt you would ever see anyone try and take the government on with this thinking. | |
|
| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: Lawsuits aren't about legal requirements i agree with the anon, an ISP is no different at all then UPS. if i ship you a case of copies of all my DVDs via UPS i have done the same thing as if you downloaded them.
however the RIAA/MPAA vision is one in which they think comcast should have prevented my upload.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
|
| | | |
yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH | Which is why this shouldn't get legs. I'm not defending their argument, only their standing to bring it.
--
Have more fun with your GPS.
Geocaching.com | |
|
Bit
Premium
join:2009-02-19
00000
·VOIPo
 ·Cox HSI
1 edit | Should have loser pays in every country That would stop this abuse of process. When the RIAA has to pay court costs plus damages for dragging a company into court they will stop. But so long as they can abuse the justice system here and abroad they will continue.
--
POKE 65495,1 | |
|
| Mad Mac
join:2003-03-10
Moorpark, CA | Re: Should have loser pays in every country I wonder what those ever-benevolent souls, Paul David Hewson and Robert Frederick Zenon Geldof, will have to say about the activities of the government of their native land in regard to this matter? I'll let you know when I hear anything..... | |
|
jkeelsnc
join:2008-08-22
Boone, NC
| MPAA, RIAA, etc Well, none of this surprises me. They always waste our tax money trying to litigate nonsense. I think the answer is that they should be told off and further more if the had ANY BUSINESS ACUMEN they would be working to spend their money to come up with a viable online business model that is responsive to customer needs. Instead they kick and whine like babies and waste time in courts.
Well, these morons need to get back to the board room and figure out how to restructure their business to adapt to the new world of technology and the internet. Hopefully, the door doesn't hit them in the A$$ on the way out. | |
|
KodiacZiller
join:2008-09-04
73368 | This reminds me... This reminds me of when one of the MSO's (was it Cox?) said that they were "obligated under the DMCA" to send out letters of infringement on behalf of the MAFIAA when in fact the DMCA does not require any such thing. | |
|
txnet
@verizon.net | Question so does it come down to if you own and isp and you have hevay p2p users can you be sued ? | |
|
megarock
join:2001-06-28
Saint Louis, MO
·Charter Pipeline
| It's this simple.... STOP BUYING MUSIC. STOP SUPPORTING ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE BIG FOUR RECORD LABELS.
Then move on to the bands, artists and composers. Tell them in no uncertain terms will you purchase their music, go to their concerts or buy their merchandise unless they cease doing business with the big four.
Trust me, if their cash flow is cut off then they have no choice but to quit it. Their business model is not dying. Music is not dying. But they way they do business by ripping the artists off by paying them paltry sums of money while making billions from then has to end. The way they have ripped off the consumers has to end. The way they demand royalties from internet outlets, radio stations and the rest has to end.
The only way that happens is if everyone - and that means you - stop buying all music. And let everyone know why. | |
|
Bananas
Premium
join:2004-08-18
Santa Barbara, CA
| There are other sources I get all my stuff from »archive.org
It's all free... Live Music Archive is the best of the best. Flacs are the way to go.
--
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not like the other people in his car who were screaming. | |
|
|
joe_elway
@esat.net
| RIAA can suck my **** This will cost the RIAA dear. Even if they win, they could end up paying a fortune. And given the economic situation here (double recession to be blunt) there is no way a jury will be sympathetic to businesses that charge 50% more here than in the rest of Europe. | |
|
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Great reporting here (not) So just because the ISP states that the content owners' requests go beyond what is required under the law, you report it as fact? Every think the ISP's may be a little biased?
Oh yea, I forgot. On this site, the copyright owners are always bad, and other parties in these issues are always good.
In reality, who knows what the Irish courts will rule as being covered under the law. I'm guessing the owners of the music contend that by knowingly permitting their network to be used for copright infringement, the ISP's are themselves "infringing by inducement". I have no idea whether this would hold up under Irish law, but if I called myself a reporter, I wouldn't merely take the the ISP's word for it that that it won't. | |
|
UofT23
teksavvy.com
join:2008-07-23
Toronto, ON | Teach them a lesson Those 4 labels should be hit with heavy fines for wasting the public's money and the court's time. | |
|
|
|
|
Music Industry Wants ISPs To Adhere To Nonexistent Laws
