NAB Tells FCC They're Not Reading Their Own Report Correctly Wants FCC to consider a delay on white space vote Tipped by ThrowDemsOut 
Last week, FCC engineers released their findings (pdf) on the suitability of so-called "white space" spectrum for a new wireless delivery option. While the report cited early prototype failures with devices from Microsoft, it stated that the technology is feasible, and should work when designed correctly. "We are satisfied that spectrum sensing in combination with geo-location and database access techniques can be used to authorize equipment today under appropriate technical standards," stated the report. Shortly after the FCC released their findings, the National Association of Broadcasters, long-standing opponents of the idea for both its competitive and potential interference inpact, issued a press release claiming that the FCC didn't understand their own results. NAB also requested that the FCC postpone their November 4 vote on the technology, according to Ars Technica. From NAB's emergency filing to the FCC: The underlying data contradict the conclusions that are made in the report, including the assertion that there has been a "proof of concept" of spectrum-sensing devices. The data show that spectrum sensing cannot be used to determine accurately whether a television channel is occupied or vacant. The FCC says they'll consider NAB's request for a delay, but so far FCC boss Kevin Martin seems optimistic about White Space broadband and the FCC's ability to read their own reports.
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  ThrowDemsOutIf you can't convince 'em, confuse 'emPremium
join:2002-03-03
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:4 |  70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices
Here they are:
quote:
Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)
Senator Pete V. Domenici (R-NM)
Senator Charles E. Grassley (R-IA)
Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
Senator Johnny Isakson (R-GA)
Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
Senator Susan Collins (R-ME)
Rep. Marilyn Musgrave (R-CO)
Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC)
Rep. John Spratt (D-SC)
Rep. J. Gresham Barrett (R-SC)
Rep. Henry E. Brown (R-SC)
Rep. David Davis (R-TN)
Rep. Ric Keller (R-FL)
Rep. Bobby L. Rush (D-IL)
Rep. Jim Cooper (D-TN)
Rep. Vito J. Fossella (R-NY)
Rep. Eliot L. Engel (D-NY)
Rep. Carolyn B. Maloney (D-NY)
Rep. Howard P. McKeon (R-CA)
Rep. Leonard Boswell (D-IA)
Rep. Sanford Bishop (D-GA)
Rep. Marion Berry (D-AR)
Rep. Lincoln Davis (D-TN)
Rep. David Scott (D-GA)
Rep. John Barrow (D-GA)
Rep. G. K. Butterfield (D-NC)
Rep. Howard Coble (R-NC)
Rep. Robin Hayes (R-NC)
Rep. Walter Jones, Jr. (R-NC)
Rep. Mike McIntyre (D-NC)
Rep. Sue Myrick (R-NC)
Rep. Melvin Watt (D-NC)
Rep. Bob Etheridge (D-NC)
Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC)
Rep. David Price (D-NC)
Rep. Heath Shuler (D-NC)
Rep. Gene Green (D-TX)
Rep. Ralph Hall (D-TX)
Rep. Charles Gonzalez (D-TX)
Rep. Sam Johnson (R-TX)
Rep. Nick Lampson (D-TX)
Rep. John Carter (R-TX)
Rep. Al Green (D-TX)
Rep. Steve Chabot (R-OH)
Rep. Dave Hobson (R-OH)
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH)
Rep. Patrick Tiberi (R-OH)
Rep. Steven C. LaTourette (R-OH)
Rep. Tom Price, M.D. (R-GA)
Rep. Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA)
Rep. Jack Kingston (R-GA)
Rep. David Scott (D-GA)
Rep. John Lewis (D-GA)
Rep. Phil Gingrey, M.D. (R-GA)
Rep. Tom Latham (R-IA)
Rep. Robert Aderholt (R-AL)
Rep. Jo Bonner (R-AL)
Rep. Mark Souder (R-IN)
Rep. Frank LoBiondo (R-NJ)
Rep. Jon Porter (R-NV)
Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-CO)
Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT)
Rep. Michael Michaud (D-ME)
Rep. Tom Allen (D-ME)
Rep. Bart Gordon (D-TN)
Rep. Frank Pallone Jr. (D-NJ)
I think the largest objection is the use of unlicensed devices versus licensed use. Once unlicensed devices are released for use, the ability of the FCC to mitigate any interference issues goes right out the window.
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Ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk? | |
|  | | | Re: 70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices Hmmm, I wonder what why those critters are questioning it?
Which could it be:
1. Lost revenue from not auctioning off the freqs.
2. Worried about possible interference.
I'll be its number 1. Those people are AWESOME RF engineers! | |
| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1 | Re: 70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices The freqs would not be auctioned off since they're already leased to the broadcasters. I'll bet the resistance is a combination of #2 and 3.
3. "Influence" from incumbents and the NAB. | |
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|  jester121Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·voip.ms
| So... those are the ones whose staffers returned calls from the NAB lobbyists right?
I find it hard to believe there are 70 people on Capitol Hill who've even heard of white space interference, let alone understand it well enough to form an opinion. | |
| | | | | Re: 70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices I'll go out on a limb and suggest that this list also represents congress critters that got substantial donations from the NAB, ATT, etc.
seems to be mainly Repubs and blue dog dems | |
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| | | Ironically most of the ones complaining (I'm looking at you microphone manufacturers!) already use this white space and they're simply worried about another device actually being given official rights to use it versus their just out and out doing it. Most of them also don't even try to find unused space near as hard as the proposed white space internet devices would. The number of unlicensed, unauthorized microphones using these spectrums are WAY higher than the number of licensed ones. | |
| | | audiog
join:2004-08-09
Detroit, MI | Re: 70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices I spent 10 years as a live sound engineer in the midwest using wireless and I under stand. If you use a wireless in a general area and never move around once you find an open Freq. you are ok. But in my experience we had several different wireless systems depending on the area are setting up in. Lets say if I was in East Lansing( Michigan State) I had to us one of the multi-channel auto systems because of on campus walki-takies, police, TV and Radio stations( broadcast, two way com links btw transmitter and station and MaRTY links) CB, trains( communications ), wireless telephones, and LABs on campus are some of the interference problems I have experienced. Not every one is using the newest systems in for the communications and some old systems are still in place for backups when the new systems go out. I had to do a wireless site survey and grade channels from open plane old crud. And still, we would get a stray interference with multi antenna systems. Thank god for Fiber snakes but sometimes wireless is the only way to go. If we were in a crud area we would use short distance and multi channel systems and listening for crud is the path. | |
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| | | Intel senior research fellow Kevin Kahn, in an interview with Epicenter, points out that there are already is a group using White Space television frequencies to broadcast data—the very same wireless microphones that manufacturers are claiming will be disrupted by the technology.
"Today, this space is actually heavily used with wireless mics and nobody seems to notice," he says. "Not the TV people, no one. If you look at wireless mics that people like Shure make (Shure is one of the companies lobbying against opening this space up), they actually operate on these TV channels, the ones that are only supposed to be run by people in studios. Well, nobody seems to notice when these things are turned on so I don't see how you can argue there's going to be this massive interference problem."
»gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/03/2···ead.html | |
| |  MrMoodyFree range slavePremium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | Hey, he must have gotten my email, and decided to listen to his constituents for a change.
All you folks clamoring for this, it will NOT get you broadband by any reasonable definition: it is not possible.
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"It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."-Thomas Edison | |
| | | | | Re: 70 Congresscritters have also questioned unlicensed devices yea yea yea they said the same thing about evdo | |
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 ropeguruPremium
join:2001-01-25
Grafton, WV | Yeah right... said by BBR News Article :
The FCC says they'll consider NAB's request for a delay, but so far FCC boss Kevin Martin seems optimistic about White Space broadband and the FCC's ability to read their own reports.
And wasn't it Kevin Martin who stated that BBPL was the end all for broadband access?
Just goes to show you again that he is an idiot. | |
| | | | Re: Yeah right... said by ropeguru:said by BBR News Article :
The FCC says they'll consider NAB's request for a delay, but so far FCC boss Kevin Martin seems optimistic about White Space broadband and the FCC's ability to read their own reports.
And wasn't it Kevin Martin who stated that BBPL was the end all for broadband access? Just goes to show you again that he is an idiot. it still could be with enough money put into it,not everybody wants more than 1.5 megs | |
| | | MrMoodyFree range slavePremium
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | Re: Yeah right... said by well we will see :
yea yea yea they said the same thing about evdo
EVDO is already better than WSDs could ever be. It has more bandwidth per customer. And if you think it's so great why aren't you using it? And conversely, if you aren't using it, how do you know it's good broadband?
said by well we will see :
it still could be with enough money put into it,not everybody wants more than 1.5 megs
Fiber could be the end all with enough money put into it. No one is willing to, for either product.
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"It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay, but one promise fattens the usurers and the other helps the people."-Thomas Edison | |
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| | | | Re: BPL all over again? "a problem that never existed"...What are you talking about? We're talking about the problem of providing broadband to millions of people who can't get it. | |
| | |  UHFAll static, all day, ForeverPremium,MVM
join:2002-05-24 | Re: BPL all over again? the white space devices I've seen so far are for end users, just like the current 802.11x wireless devices. Broadcasters have tested all the prototypes, and they DO cause interference to digital television. | |
| | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
1 edit | said by Chargolith :
"a problem that never existed"...What are you talking about? We're talking about the problem of providing broadband to millions of people who can't get it.
That is also the fault of the Federal Government and FCC for not providing any real competition over the existing copper infrastructure (paid for by rate payers) in order to protect the incumbent telcos. Don't you get it, if a majority of FCC Commissioners really supported broadband for those millions they would already have broadband. | |
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 superdogI Need A DrinkPremium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA |  Proper use of white spaces
 ), the CB radio thing was a mess, as it happened almost overnight. People without technical training were doing things with CB's that just crushed that spectrum. By the time the FCC realized how bad it was messed up, it was beyond their ability to police it and correct the problem. Lucky for them, the CB craze sort of died out and it sort of fixed itself.
I am mentioning this because while I want the ability to use this spectrum, I also want to make sure it remains a viable, usable option for years to come. Making quick decisions without proper research is only going to lead to disaster. If you want a current example, just look at the Part 15 rules for Wi-Fi devices?. The are individuals out there right now who have no respect for the rules.
When technically illiterate people use the "Tim the tool man approach" and go on ebay, they buy amplifiers and large antennas thinking that bigger is better. They then setup this gear thinking they are improving their distance for their notebooks. What they do NOT realize is that now all of their neighbors Wi-Fi setups have now been ruined because of their stupidity.
I deal with this sort of nonsense every day. It is very annoying when others have disrespect for rules. If the white space is opened up for public use in the wrong way, it will be wasted, costing a lot of people a lot of $$, and totally negating the intended use and benefit for the public.
I want the spectrum very badly, as it will allow me to serve rural customers that would otherwise have no option for broadband, but I want it done in a way that will make sure it continues to function for many years to come. I only hope they can reach a happy medium so that everyone wins. 
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»www.wavecrazy.net
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| | | | Re: Proper use of white spaces I have to agree with you Superdog. I think they should at least try to make it work. Sense I'm not an engineer, feel free to correct me on this, but it seems to me that it would be a lot easier to police the white-space devices, since all they have to do is shut down the signal and they become useless. | |
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