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NBC Content Pulled From iTunes
NBC, Apple...like so totally not talking right now....

NBC has pulled all content from iTunes after Apple and NBC couldn't agree on pricing. NBC wanted Apple to pay more than double its wholesale price for the content, which would have raised the prices for TV shows from $1.99 per episode to nearly five dollars, according to an Apple statement:
quote:
"We are disappointed to see NBC leave iTunes because we would not agree to their dramatic price increase," said Eddy Cue, Apple's vice president of iTunes. "We hope they will change their minds and offer their TV shows to the tens of millions of iTunes customers."
The news comes the same week that NBC and News Corp. took the wraps off of Hulu, a video delivery YouTube competitor. Hulu will someday offer several of NBC's more popular series, such as Heroes and The Office. Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now (sarcasm emoticon goes here)??
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topics flat nest 

Omega
Premium Member
join:2002-07-30
Golden, CO

Omega

Premium Member

where to go?

quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent

texans20
Premium Member
join:2002-09-28
Texas!

1 edit

texans20

Premium Member

Re: where to go?

said by Omega:
quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent
Usenet.

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

La Luna

Premium Member

Re: where to go?

said by texans20:
said by Omega:
quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent
Usenet.
shush you two.

Nerdtalker
Working Hard, Or Hardly Working?
MVM
join:2003-02-18
San Jose, CA

Nerdtalker to texans20

MVM

to texans20
said by texans20:
said by Omega:
quote:
Where oh where will users flock to get NBC content now??
bittorrent
Usenet.
IRC. That, or simply do without since it's impossible to get in any legit form in the first place.
ptomasi
Premium Member
join:2001-01-14
Hawthorne, NJ

ptomasi to texans20

Premium Member

to texans20
Be weary of using bittorrent to download any of NBC's crap, I recently rec'd an email after downloading a show I had accidently purged off my TIVO. Buried in the leter from NBC was we are going to take further legal action if you dont stop letter. They have alot of balls pulling that crap, for something they transmit freely over the air. F' them. Greedy F'n you know whats.

supergirl
join:2007-03-20
Pensacola, FL

supergirl to Omega

Member

to Omega
NBC = Nothing But Crap!

Thymadman
Mine Mine
join:2002-08-07
Brooklyn, NY

Thymadman

Member

Greed

Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO
claco
join:2002-09-29
Tallmadge, OH

1 recommendation

claco

Member

Re: Greed

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.

kalphearion
In nomine Patri
Premium Member
join:2003-11-08
Broomfield, CO

kalphearion

Premium Member

Re: Greed

said by claco:

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.

GoD of KaOs
Agent of KaOs
join:2001-01-29
Chatsworth, CA

GoD of KaOs

Member

Re: Greed

said by kalphearion:

said by claco:

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.
Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels.

LeftOfSanity
People Suck.
join:2005-11-06
Dover, DE

LeftOfSanity

Member

Re: Greed

said by GoD of KaOs:

said by kalphearion:

said by claco:

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
To some level I do agree with you.
Cable companies ask that same question when they negotiate a price to carry network channels.
Exactly. People bitch about price increases, yet they don't think about the content providers. They want a big piece of the action.

Think about it, they want 5 bucks for an Ipod version of 1 show. Imagine if services were Ala carte.
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006 to claco

Member

to claco
You don't have to pay anyone anything. DVR the stuff and then use your DVD recorder. Move it to your computer, chop the commercials, add some fades to make the transitions smooth and you have it done.

NBC can sit and spin, I've been getting it for free for a very long time.

anaon444
@swbell.net

anaon444

Anon

Re: Greed

And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
said by dualsub2006:

You don't have to pay anyone anything. DVR the stuff and then use your DVD recorder. Move it to your computer, chop the commercials, add some fades to make the transitions smooth and you have it done.

NBC can sit and spin, I've been getting it for free for a very long time.
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006

Member

Re: Greed

YES! I am a GENIUS! And I'm not gonna tell YOU how I did it.

For everyone else, it is called a DVD recorder. I RECORD the content while I WATCH the content. Live or from DVR. I got mine at Best Lie for like $150 to some VCR tapes to DVD.

If I weren't such a GENIUS I never would have figured that out.
smcallah
join:2004-08-05
Home

smcallah to anaon444

Member

to anaon444
Analog outputs on DVR's are not protected.
apollo80
join:2002-01-31
Richmond, VA

apollo80 to anaon444

Member

to anaon444
said by anaon444 :

And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72

Premium Member

Re: Greed

said by apollo80:
said by anaon444 :

And YOU have figured out how to get this protected content off EVERY DVR in the world to a computer? What a Genious you are!
Um...yeah...it's called the analog loophole.
Not exactly a "loophole" when 1080i content is downrezzed to 480i.. For those of us with HD, the above method is useless.
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer to claco

Member

to claco
said by claco:

Forget the price increase, I still don't understand why I have to pay anything at all for something that was broadcast over public airwaves and that I could record myself.
Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself.
GunnarDanne
join:2002-12-02
Crown City, OH

GunnarDanne

Member

Re: Greed

Yeaaaa but when you do that, you steal the media it was copied to and the box.
tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA

tlcbob to Sammer

Member

to Sammer
Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use....
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Sammer

Member

Re: Greed

said by tlcbob:

Hold on a second - it IS legal to record tv transmissions for personal use....
Yes but the iTunes store is a commercial service so personal use doesn't apply.
tlcbob
join:2001-07-11
Harrisburg, PA

tlcbob

Member

Re: Greed

You need to read the first post in this thread - he was talking about DVR'ing the content from his settop box and saving it. This IS legal. Then another poster compared it to taking a dvd from a store - no comparison - that is illegal.
ross7
join:2000-08-16

1 edit

1 recommendation

ross7

Member

Re: Greed

I don't have anything against a major network trying to double its profits by selling their own recordings of TV shows to people who missed the opportunity to record the original broadcast, as long as the network doesn't try to restrain the free distribution/sharing of similar recordings made by original contemporaneous audiences without charge to others for non-commercial enjoyment. The market, offset by file sharing, will act to rein in prices and keep things reasonable for those too lazy to have recorded the original broadcasts themselves, or to download from usenet, or via p2p.

However, in the case before us, NBC is seeking to double/treble its already doubled profits (made possible by the existence of outlets such as the iTunes store) by picking the pocket of the middleman. They are seeking to raise the wholesale cost/retail price beyond supportable limits; essentially asking Apple to pay over Apples existing margins, and forcing Apple to try and recoup the loss through pricing levels that can't be supported by the extent marketplace. At $1.99 (too high), the current price of NBC's offerings through iTunes exhausts the convenience factor. At $4.99, it's outrageous, simply price-gouging, and doomed to fail leaving Apple holding the bag.

It is one thing for NBC to price themselves out of the market, as that is their right, but quite another to ask Apple to subsidize their idiocy.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 edit

Ulmo to Anon

Member

to Anon

Re: Greed

Ross,

what the other poster was saying is that you failed to consider that:

* You pay for cable
* You pay for television set

* You pay for DVD recorder
* You pay for DVD media
or
* You pay for DVR
or
* You pay for computer
* You pay for Internet connection

also, you pay for electricity, time spent doing the above, etc..

Those of us who discuss delivery prices talk about quality and quantity. Right now, the proposed $5 wouldn't have gotten enough quantity, and I posited that back when it was $2 minus one cent it had inferior quality due to lack of knowledge that it existed, but otherwise I bet iTunes might have had decent codecs that my system could handle (i.e., high res high bitrate XVID/something else as good), but I don't know. BT/USENET have half decent quantity and pretty darn good quality, but aren't always available (legally), however the prices are reasonable. But it always still costs money: whatever system you chose, you are paying for it. So, the question becomes what is the quality, quantity for that? Well, the quality of illegal is bad in itself. Besides and including that consideration, it is the quality and quantity we are discussing about NBC: if the quantity is 0 using their medium, it is insufficient for NBC to continue. If the quantity is one third of what it should be for the price paid, then it is overpriced, and insufficient in that regard, which is true of $5 per episode.

MBAs (which as a rule are always retarded in every way), and those discussing MBAs (because MBAs need all the guidance they can get), need to understand the basic fundamentals of what they're discussing to have any real progress that lasts to improve the MBAs' inevitably horrible offerings.

If a high quality show was offered for $1 to $2 per show (not 99 cents nor 99 cents plus 100 cents or anything dumb like that) using high quality codecs that my system could handle (I use it as a litmus test since it is a fast machine but not superfast so it is right where the dividing line can be), then it is reasonable. Double that price is unreasonable. $2 for a show that is not good is too much. $2 for a good show that has crappy codecs is too much. $2 for anything that I don't know about because they announced it only way way back when it was most likely just vaporware is irrelevent because I'll never buy it that way, and if I ever watch it, it will be via some other way. Not offering it at all of course doesn't conduct any business.

I use my full time minimum wage income (which is common for citizens these days due to government illegal alien employment encouragement and lack of controls for sending business to aliens) as the obvious measure for this stuff.

P.S., what shows did NBC offer? I never keep track of which old fasioned network is transmitting something, since I don't tune via those any more; I tune via other networks, and know very much about those.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium Member
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
Netgear WNDR3700v2
Zoom 5341J

KrK to Sammer

Premium Member

to Sammer
said by Sammer:

Maybe for the same reason you can't walk into a store and walk out without paying for a DVD copy of some show you could have recorded yourself.
Not a valid comparison. With a DVD in a store, you have a tangible physical item, with an actual value. A program broadcast for free to the public should be available for downloading for free, or at best, a very very minimal charge to cover the costs of providing the download. For example a 1 Hour TV show should be 10 cents.

fasfsdaf
@comcast.net

fasfsdaf to claco

Anon

to claco
Then just record it yourself and don't buy it. You say that, and it sounds so simple, yet you complain about it so obviously you aren't doing it.

tiger72
SexaT duorP
Premium Member
join:2001-03-28
Saint Louis, MO

tiger72 to claco

Premium Member

to claco
because the commercials are cut out.
Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
Aptos, CA

4 edits

Ulmo to Thymadman

Member

to Thymadman
said by Thymadman:

Talk about Greedy. $5 for an episode, completely stupid and not worth it IMO
I didn't know episodes were available for $2 each. Too many MBAs involved: they announce a capability will be available soon, then get so mad at those of us who want to know when it is available that they never tell us that. I knew they would have it soon but never knew they actually had it. Anyway, $2 per episode is about the maximum reasonable price
, and if I had known they had it, I would have looked for things NBC sells that I might be interested in. Now, I won't, since they don't offer it, and $5 is exorbitant, not just because I say so, but simply because it cannot fit within my budget (as in it would make me homeless and die if I tried to pay for that garbage for $5 each 45 minutes).

Another thing that would help is if Apple stopped trying to piss me off by using obviously and blatantly deceptive pricing like "99 cents" in stead of $1, "1.99" instead of $2.

If iTunes announced something like this:

"We now have two years worth of over half of NBC's (ABC's, FOX's, etc.) programs available for download NOW using paypal or credit card for $2 each episode of 45 minutes or more ($1.50 for episodes 30 minutes or less)"

... then I would have been buying so much I would only be limited by my budget.

Edit: I am trying iTunes for the first time in my life right now. I couldn't find anything I wanted to watch (that's what makes Tivo method supposedly so great), so I chose an old episode I already watched, just to test everything. I was able to create the account (it takes paypal or credit card network based debit card), and it brought me back to the page where the BUY button for $2 minus a cent was again, I pressed it, confirmed yes, and the download began. It is "482.4MB" for a 44 minute episode (SG-1 10-3 The Pegasus Project), and claims it will take "3 hours" to download despite it coming what seems like a heck of a lot faster (Azureus is a LOT more accurate about ETA). It is limited by my blazingly fast up to 768kbps DSL inbound speed.

NOTE that I had to see this discussion thread to internalize that $199 wasn't TWO HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS. Psychologically "$2" is a LOT less than "$1.99".

I work as a cashier. These days most children don't get their change. There's a few reasons for this, but chief among them is revealed by what almost a third of them insist: "KEEP THE CHANGE!" What they mean is all that worthless clunky metal money that no longer adds up to anything useful fast enough (they want the paper money usually, although some of them even forgoe those pesky low value $1 bills). They say this for any amount: 99 cents, 1 cent, 75 cents -- usually much more than just 30 cents, often 60 cents and stuff, and they mean it. (Other reasons they don't get the change is they forget, but they forget not just because they're stupid but also because the force for them to remember isn't as great these days). So, cents are WORTHLESS. So, in a price, they and I only care about DOLLARS. So, when a price is "199", it looks like ONE HUNDRED NINETY NINE DOLLARS, not one dollar and ninety nine cents. MBAs are SO STUPID about continuing to put 99 cents in prices.

Edit 2: Apparently, I can start watching the show before it has finished downloading. That is great. However, there is a problem: I started watching it, and the quality sucks: (a) iTunes show has horrible movement artifacts that I never see in XVID versions of smaller sizes and lower bitrates! Big chunky movements! (b) It is extremely grainy -- how do they accomplish so much graininess? XVID shows are usually very sharp in comparison. Perhaps it is better than I know and I just don't see it yet, but it looks really bad compared to what I was used to. Perhaps my expectations were really high considering how much quality COULD be delivered with the iTunes model.

Using the iTunes model, getting Comcast makes more sense: I don't need as much outbound bandwidth, but obviously need more inbound. (I am already doingg a test install Monday to see how they are. I'll review it then.) I continued to watch the show, then when it ran into the download edge, I looked at its download statistics better. This is what I saw: quality still grainy (sandy), and movement badly represented, sound OK (not great) -- so far, worse than xvids from USENET/BT I've seen. I didn't check for subtitles or alternate languages yet to see if they have them. I haven't gotten to the action scenes yet (if there are any). The download information is too sparse: it only tells me ___._ "MB", not defining "MB", not telling me the current rate (which I calculated by timing it manually to be the maximum theoretical limit of my DSL connection as delivered (lots of overhead), not bad in itself), and it doesn't tell me how far it got in time. It also doesn't tell me the episode #.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to Thymadman

Premium Member

to Thymadman
the BBC article also said NBC wanted to restrict use of their programs from being put onto Ipods. like apple will agree to that since Ipod is the company's baseline profit engine and the whole reason most use Itunes.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Bye Bye Battlestar Gallactica

Where will all the Battlestar Gallactica fans get their fix if they miss the show on TV?

•••••••••
NightVisor
Premium Member
join:2001-02-28
Fontana, CA

1 recommendation

NightVisor

Premium Member

Wait-a-minute...

NBC has content?

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

Re: Wait-a-minute...

said by NightVisor:

NBC has content?
Of course.. Just no one said it was good...

Brazbit
Premium Member
join:2003-10-22
Port Orchard, WA

1 recommendation

Brazbit

Premium Member

Good for NBC

Good for NBC. Apple should not be the one to set the price for what NBC's content is worth, that should be between NBC and the customer.

If NBC had increased the price and not enough users were willing to pay the price would have either come back down or NBC would have decided iTunes was not worth the investment and left anyway. If the market is not worth their time at $1.99 an episode then they did the right thing by leaving. Due to Apple's inflexibility they now have lost the provider of 40% of their video sales.

•••••••••••••••••••

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

Doctor Four

Premium Member

The content cartels are their own worst enemy

By being greedy and pulling their content off of industry
approved services like iTunes, the people that used to
pay for content from them will now resort to downloading
it for free from places like Bit Torrent and Usenet.

packetscan
Premium Member
join:2004-10-19
Bridgeport, CT

packetscan

Premium Member

Slow and Painful

4.99 is not market price. 1.99 is.

Are NBC and others trying to Fix the market?

Looks like I'm back to Usenet.

••••••••
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
united state

b10010011

Member

I don't get it...

Why should we have to pay for something that was aired on broadcast television?

I do not have to pay to watch it on TV.

I do not have to pay to watch it later on my Tivo.

Why should I have to pay to watch it on an I-Pod?

Just does not make sense?

But really I can not remember the last time I watched a program on NBC. Maybe they are hurting for money.

Here's a clue for you NBC. It's not the internet that is hurting your bottom line. It's the lack of decent programming.

••••

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

1 recommendation

La Luna

Premium Member

Can't imagine....

....why anyone would want to PAY for anything off of network tv to begin with. Most of the programming is crap, and the little that isn't still isn't worth paying extra for over and above what we are already paying to cable/direct tv, etc., to receive those channels. I can't remember the last time I watched anything on ANY network channel....oh yeah, wait....the final 12 of American Idol on Fox. whoo hoo.

FiL25
Premium Member
join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD

FiL25

Premium Member

Re: Can't imagine....

They are providing thier programs without commercials and such; labor costs would easily jack that price up to that point.

On a side note, love you sig. links Luna. Very, umm, fairly balanced. :|
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006

Member

Re: Can't imagine....

Are you serious? What labor costs? The content is filmed without the commercials. What labor is involved that would make $1.99 per episode a loss?
steelyken
join:2002-03-04
Plainfield, IN

steelyken

Member

Was It Apple Or NBC?

Is this story right? I read on another website it was Apple who pulled the plug on their contract early (set to expire in December), not NBC-Universal.

••••

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan

Premium Member

Not fair

Lets say the average season has 20 episodes.

When the dvd comes they sell the whole season on average for nearly 50 dollars.

Depending on the amount of episodes we were getting a deal or ripped off.

To charge 5 dollars per episode is completely out of line of what they charge for dvd plus I already paid to watch it through cablevision.

Now I guess we'll see NBC offered in some windows media crap format only.

Content creators cry "Why do people steal from us" we'll buddy it's because you pull crap like this and rip people off. Charge a fair price and people will pay it. Try to rip them off or force them to conform to some crazy playback standard and they will walk away.

Look at DVD it is a smashing success. The HD formats are a complete flop because of format wars, charging twice in the case of blu-ray, and charging a premium because it's in HD?

Please get real, the movie was filmed in HD, there's no reason a movie needs to cost 10 dollars more per disc other than to line someone's pockets.

Next I guess NBC will tell cable operators they can not allow Tivo's on their networks too.

brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brewster, NY

brooklynman4

Member

Re: Not fair

It makes sense when both companies making billions why not just do any buisness any more. by the way they both greedy.
old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

old_wiz_60

Member

Not just money

NBC wants not only more money, but MORE DRM. They want to stop the practice of allowing the video to be viewed on more than one machine in a network. They not only don't approve of Apple's prices, but the DRM as well. I use a DVR and then copy the episodes to DVD-R. I don't make copies for anyone else.

evilt00l
join:2003-03-20
Winchester, KY

1 edit

evilt00l

Member

iTunes is the one choosing not providing content!

Per the articles I've ready NBC did not pull their shows off of iTunes... yet. The contract is up in December which is in the middle of the season so APPLE decided not to show this seasons episodes (until Dec). However Apple will continue to offer past episodes until the contract is up in December.

"The network's iTunes contract expires in December, but since that falls in the middle of the TV season, Apple opted to stop offering new episodes when the season starts in a few weeks.

Episodes of NBC shows already on the download service will be available until the contract runs out."

Stolen from Zap2it.com

Daarken
Rara Avises
Premium Member
join:2005-01-12
Southwest LA

Daarken

Premium Member

Did Apple really gave NBC the boot?

Gizmodo is running a story that Apple gave NBC the boot, because NBC wanted $4.99 a show.
dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY

dualsub2006

Member

Re: Did Apple really gave NBC the boot?

Yes, NBC wanted to let the deal end at the end of the year but Apple decided not to offer half of a season of NBC shows. I think that NBC thought that they could use the backlash from iTMS buyers who would not be able to get the second half of the season to work a price increase. Apple called their bluff.
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

1 edit

1 recommendation

qworster

Member

NBC is solidly in fourth place among the top 4 networks...

Now maybe you can understand why....they are run by MORONS!
pabster
join:2001-12-09
Waterloo, IA

pabster

Member

For the first time in history...

...Apple realizes that something is OVERPRICED and draws the line in the sand.

NBC can take a long walk off a short pier.
grumpy3b
join:2001-12-11
Lompoc, CA

grumpy3b

Member

this whole issue is ironically funny...

The irony of the ultimate proprietary system, ANYTHING FROM APPLE, and the pure greed of these TV people squabbling over OUR MONEY is funny.

We are talking about something that can only be played back on your iPod right? So if you want to watch on your TV you will need to buy another version somewhere right? Or can you stream your iTunes content from your computer? Of course try moving that content to another computer and see what shakes loose...

So, we are having Apple telling TV that they are too expensive? Best motto I learned in college is "...Apple Computer...you cannot pay more and get less..." Of course that was when the price for an Apple computer did not include such mundane items as a monitor, keyboard, mouse...let alone printers video, modems, etc...and to qualify for their "student financing" one had to have an income of over $26,000/year...yeah that was 1990 and this is now...but it's still the same company...now Apple is considering itself an arbiter for "the people"??? Oh the irony...

Sorry if I want a TV show I will simply find a DVD on eBay or Amazon...buy the cheapest one I can find and then never worry about any of it again...and oh yeah, Apple wants to restrict your ability to move content ripped from your DVD over to your iPod...but they are here to protect us from the evil TV people...and who protects the world from Steve Jobs?

I can buy a whole (or multiple) season DVD on eBay for under $20 with shipping...why pay even $2 per episode for more restrictive content? Dudes it is simply not worth the effort.

••••

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

Forget NBC and iTunes......Take off the DRM!!!

I'm waiting for someone to take all that Crap off so you can play the Video on what ever you want. The Movie Industry has so much junk on their DVD's that they don't play right in most Players. Then they have so much Crap and Advertising, that they should pay us to watch the DVD. Let's go the same route as the Music Industry, and take off the DRM!

iEvolution
join:2006-06-24
Ogden, UT

iEvolution

Member

Re: Forget NBC and iTunes......Take off the DRM!!!

You have to respect apple for standing their ground when the RIAA wanted to boost prices up to $2 for more popular songs apple stood their ground and they are doing the same here except NBC took their ball and went home.