page: 1 · 2  |
 niagara_man1
join:2007-05-02
Niagara Falls, NY | All I have to say is WTF ........... | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA | Re: All I have to say is I second that. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03 | Re: All I have to say is I third that. | |
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recurr
@optonline.net | Re: All I have to say is I see UPS and FedEx trucks drive over the speed limit. Do NBC Universal employees obey the speed limit? | |
| | | | | wispagod
join:2001-06-28
House Springs, MO | Re: All I have to say is Fuck, wasn't it a delivery truck that carried the bomb that blew up a building once? Besides, UPS brings my drugs all the time, cleverly discuised, p2p traffic will be the same way  | |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25 | I fourth that. | |
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Pashune
Inhaling at 675 KB per sec.
Premium
join:2006-04-14
Gautier, MS | Re: All I have to say is I fifth that. | |
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antdude
A Ninja Ant
Premium,VIP
join:2001-03-25 | Re: All I have to say is said by Pashune  :I fifth that. You meant sixth. | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | haha! lets just arrest everyone with a broadband internet connection in the usa, since the only reason you'd get one was to pirate stuff faster. | |
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PolarBear
The bear formerly known as aaron8301
Premium
join:2005-01-03 | Re: All I have to say is YES, that MUST be it! lol   | |
| | | | | SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY | I fifth that! | |
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hayabusa3303
Over 200 mph
Premium
join:2005-06-29
clubs: | NBC so what. Whats wrong NBC all your shows suck wherefor you are going to attack something else? | |
| | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Plus NBC wanting the government to crackdown on intellectual piracy on their behalf inserts the notion they had something that could honestly be considered intellectual for pirates to go after. | |
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DaveAintHereMan
@shawcable.net | EXCUSE ME! I object to you characterizing anything on NBC as "Intellectual".  | |
| | | SilentMan
join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
| Re: Plus said by lesopp :NBC wanting the government to crackdown on intellectual piracy on their behalf inserts the notion they had something that could honestly be considered intellectual for pirates to go after. No self-respecting pirate would waste his time downloading NBC stuff. | |
| datwell1
join:2002-01-08
Falls Church, VA |  What?
--Doug | |
| | deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000 | Re: What? The government isnt stupid, its greedy. And they are the ones buying into the government. Literally. Bribery of congresspeople is the quickest way to get a legal enforcement crusade against whatever you dont like. | |
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Anomus
@ameritech.net
| Re: What? Cool, I see supporters here. I am a "bandwidth hog" if thats what they want to call me, and over the last 2 years I have DLed some 18Tbytes of stuff useing cantennas and ddwrt linky routers to stay anonomous from those pesky **aa's. But lets get real. In just a few years, everybody is going to be sucking Terrabyte as they watch Tv and Radio over the internet. I am just quick to get in line first. When I post about this subject, I am usually attacked, and my posts are frequantly enormously delayed and the last post I did last week was never even posted. I only post about P2Ping because I like to rally suport and excitement about it. Lots have already joined in, but if everybody joined in, it would simply become the new law of the land.
And its not really new law. It is really Old law Deep Pocket Moguls are trying to quietly kill. I am talking about free TV and radio. They hooked us with pay cable and took away the perks of cheap rates and commercial free. They hooked us just like cigaret companys did, then played with the chemicals to hook us even more. Now free anaolog TV has been outlawed and is dying out. With digital TV, individual control of TV viewership is within their grasp. They now have the power to bill our viewing on a pay-per-view basis. Even free radio is under attack with new proposals to repeal exzemptions allowing for freedom to broadcast. We see what is happening with internet radio, being forced to pay like nobody has paid before. Without help, they don't stand a snowballs chance in hell. The Big Moguls whine about fairness but they take no prisoners in their fight. They want total control and they want all your money. Just like the Oil and Gas industry does now. We are hooked on energy and now we pay pretty much what ever they say. And there is not much the government can do about it.
P2P is the only monkey wrench standing in their way. A powerful weopon invented by the people tired of dacades of promisses and CD price fixing. Embrace it, it's your friend. With P2P, the privalaged concept of free TV and Radio will live on on the internet. If the people want it, they will get it. They can't kill the power of the people. So start up a P2P app today. If we can win this thing, future entertainment content will continue to be free for our viewing pleasure paid for by the time tested ad driven business model. If we loose, we will be slaves to our addiction to entertainment whose bill will always be at the edge of what we can tolerate with all alternatives squashed into exstinction. | |
| | | | rextilleon
join:2003-12-28
Pleasantville, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: What? First of all, free TV is still available---I don't know where you came up with that nonsense. Second of all, P2P wasn't invented by "the people" (whatever that means). Thirdly, the creative community does not, I repeat, does not work for free. They want to be compensated for their work like anyone else.
Your generalizations and banal excuses for committing robbery are so typical of a certain element of our society--the young and immature. You sound like a five year old completely under the control of "old law deep pocket moguls" Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming forces beyond your control. | |
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barakouda
@ma.us | It's called lobbying, not bribery! | |
| | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by GOLFnSUN :The complaint is legitimate and the FCC should seriously consider it while examining submitted comments about creating rules on the network neutrality docket at the FCC. Any rules concerning network neutrality that the FCC may eventually adopt after examining the comments must not institutionalize the rampant copyright infringement that now takes place on the internet. A huge part of what the US exports is intellectual property and allowing the theft of that property will seriously affect the US economy and balance of trade with other nations. Here is a revolutionary thought ! Help the customer get what they want at a price the market will bare and profit. Instead of fight tooth and nail against a new business model and falter.
The us is a major ip exporter , but we also send it to be produced outside our country. Why can't we become a major player in the world of manufactured good like were in the great hay days of this country ? Oh that's right because profits are before pride. And they expect any different from other countries who are "stealing" our ip ? Please.
Give the customers what they want and profit. We are a global market now. Hence stop the regionizing of the content. Put it on the web with some commercials at the beginning , in decent quality. In short take away the advantage of "stealing" the content.
Why the hell is it so hard for people to understand that we stand at the forefront of a world wide market, we use cheap labor from all over the place to get you cheaper items , but yet the companies reaping the profits complain it's not enough.
Gone is the pride this country had in making great products. And so goes our world dominance. It has happened in the past with great civilizations. We are no different , with the huge leaps and bounds computers brought to the world , it advanced the decline of our civilization, unfortunately our kids are to concerned with our "ip" and it is slowly destroying a generation. Much as rap has destroyed 2 generations now.
Such is a scary place to be.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by BosstonesOwn :Here is a revolutionary thought ! Help the customer get what they want at a price the market will bare and profit. Except as is very apparent here in post after post - that price is zero!!! Most of the pirates want everything for free.
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Internet News
My BLOG
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·AT&T Midwest
 ·Site5.com
·Comcast
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by GOLFnSUN :said by BosstonesOwn :Here is a revolutionary thought ! Help the customer get what they want at a price the market will bare and profit. Except as is very apparent here in post after post - that price is zero!!! Most of the pirates want everything for free. That, in essence, is a problem. Would lowering the price increase sales? Removing DRM increase sales? Maybe. However, at what point do you just allow people to use your product without paying for it? Another issue is proving it. Sure, your IP is logged, and the ISP can turn over account information. However, short of a court ordered search warrant, there really is nothing that can be done. I haven't seen one search warrant yet on music/movie copyright infringement.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it An you want want the RIAA backed police ransacking your computer and CD's because you might have copyright material? I personally wouldn't.
I agree with TCH, a lot of people here have a sense of entitlement and think they should get things other people produce for free, but I certainly don't want the cops/government or anyone else looking at things on my computer. I hope the search warrants go nowhere and they don't have the right to get into my things.
I believe it starts at home. If parents teach their kids you shouldn't take stuff without paying for it it would be a start.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. " - Thomas Jefferson | |
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
·AT&T Midwest
·Site5.com
·Comcast
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by scrummie02 :An you want want the RIAA backed police ransacking your computer and CD's because you might have copyright material? I personally wouldn't. I agree with TCH, a lot of people here have a sense of entitlement and think they should get things other people produce for free, but I certainly don't want the cops/government or anyone else looking at things on my computer. I hope the search warrants go nowhere and they don't have the right to get into my things. I believe it starts at home. If parents teach their kids you shouldn't take stuff without paying for it it would be a start. Who said anything about the RIAA police? I am talking about the FBI or other cybercrime division of the police.
Personally, if I was innocent, I would rather have the police come knocking at my door with a search warrant other than a letter saying that I did something and I have to pay. At least then I can point to my computer and state that I never downloaded anything illegally and the people are there that can verify it.
Some people say you shouldn't have to prove your innocence. However, in cases like this where people are sharing gigs of music and movies illegally, and the ISP has records of the IPs, and the ISP has records of the users, there is evidence beyond just reasonable doubt that someone is breaking the law.
Thats just my opinion, take it for what you will.
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My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal | |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
·Verizon FIOS
| While I'll agree that the US exports entertainment, it is not generally the largest export (and thus greatest income).
Why should the government be liable for protecting what an industry should have considered and implemented: protecting its product from theft?
Should P2P be blocked, period? Made illegal like guns and thus a criminal offense to even let a packet escape onto an ISP's network?
...
Media companies are too focused on their parachutes then what the people want. | |
| | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | water is free, but people still pay for it.
Those silly bottled water companies! Instead of lobbying congress for laws to make people drink bottled water, they actually came up with a successful business plan! What a bunch of doofusses! | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by nasadude :water is free, but people still pay for it. Those silly bottled water companies! Instead of lobbying congress for laws to make people drink bottled water, they actually came up with a successful business plan! What a bunch of doofusses! Water is free?? Unless you have your own well, water is not free from the tap. It comes either from taxes from municipal water companies or fees paid to private companies.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon FIOS
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it Water is free in places like restaurants, etc. I've never been charged for a glass of ice water when dining out.
I've also never seen a water fountain with a change slot.
Me, I have a well but even that water isn't free. It costs electricity to pump it to the surface.
I see your point, as far as water not being free, and someone paying for it, etc, etc. But look at the price of a bottle of Fiji water, or even the aquafina stuff Pepsi sells. Right now it's $1.50 for a 20 oz bottle at the local convenience store.
That works out to approximately $9.60 a gallon.
When people are bitching about paying $3.00 a gallon for gas that had to be shipped in from a foreign country, and refined through complex machinery just to make it usable, I consider it some pretty damn good marketing when someone can convince people to pay over 3X more than they are paying for gas when they have a cheap, practically inexhaustible supply of it at home.
I rarely buy bottled water. My well is over 600 ft deep, and the water is great run though the filter built into the fridge...
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asdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net
 from:
scrummie02
| You're being willfully obtuse.
No water is technically not free, but for most people the cost of a gallon of water is vanishingly small. Many, if not most, americans are likely paying a penny or less per gallon for water at the tap. Yet people continue to buy bottled water and pay 100+ times the rate of tap water and this is because they believe the quality is higher. We can argue about whether this belief in a quality differential is justified or not but clearly people are willing to pay more when convenience and quality are perceived to be higher.
If the industry focused on removing impediments to people's use of material while providing a location with reliable adequate bandwidth and a complete catalogue it isn't at all clear that it wouldn't succeed. In general though the legal offerings increase the nuisance and tedium for people and provide only limited catalogue choice. The market pretty clearly equates quality not with sonic purity and accuracy but with ease, freedom, flexibility (for example, being able to play the material on whatever hardware they want whenever they want without having to jump through hoops, being able to find anything they desire quickly).
There is, of course, the problem of inertia and it is true when people get used to getting something for free there is a hurdle to overcome. One should never underestimate human laziness, however. There are irritations to p2p and if the industry would focus on providing a service which removed these irritations without adding additional irritations caused by the industry's fixation with control, they would probably be drowning under the money people would be throwing at them. | |
| | | | | | | ominae
join:2003-05-11
Columbus, OH
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it i agree with asdfdfdfdf.
who has the time to stop at your local retailer to buy a new CD or DVD? when i think of all the stuff i have to deal with on a daily basis (wake up and get ready for work, get the kids ready for school/babysitter, drop kids off at school/babysitter, drive to work, deal with work for 8 hours if i'm lucky, pick up kids, take kids to various after school activities, go home and mow the lawn/trim hedges/fix whatever the kids happened to break this week, pick kids up from after school activities, prepare dinner, clean house, do laundry, help kids with homework, get kids ready for bed, get myself ready for bed, repeat for the next 18 years...) where do i find the free time to go to my local best buy or circuit city (or where ever you buy your CD's and DVD's from)? if i did have the time why would i spend it shopping for music or movies? why fight through the traffic and congestion just to spend my hard earned money on something that doesn't help me accomplish any of the tasks on my daily schedule?
CD's and DVD's (and tv shows, my DVR is full of programs to watch) are a luxury in my home (i'm sure it's the same in many other homes). the last DVD i bought would still be in the plastic if i didn't have kids to watch it.
frankly, i don't want to hear some media company whine about piracy. they have millions to throw at attorneys to sue for copyright infringement (which doesn't work, period) but can't invest in a better system for delivering reliable, good quality entertainment at a reasonable speed and price, without the hassle of DRM? oh, wait, someone already has!
i don't advocate privacy, but i do see why it is so damn successful. if i were nbcu (or one of the AA's) i'd look at why piracy is so popular and find a way to copy it while turning a profit (it's possible, just look at itunes). as it stands right now, all these guys are about is holding on to a diminishing business model. stop whining about how many millions you're losing due to piracy and find a way to use p2p to your advantage. | |
| | | | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by GOLFnSUN :said by nasadude :water is free, but people still pay for it. Those silly bottled water companies! Instead of lobbying congress for laws to make people drink bottled water, they actually came up with a successful business plan! What a bunch of doofusses! Water is free?? Unless you have your own well, water is not free from the tap. It comes either from taxes from municipal water companies or fees paid to private companies. mea culpa, mea culpa, you're right water is not strictly free. however, you know what I am getting at and you have pointedly decided not to respond to the second part of my statement, which is a slam on the current content industry business plan of suing customers and protecting the status quo thru rent seeking (ie, buying congressmen).
do you even have a comment on this situation, other than knee jerk support for every crazy-ass idea the content industry comes up with to avoid adjusting their business model? | |
| | | | | Ahrenl
join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
·Verizon FIOS
| Water isn't free... unless you live with your parents. Otherwise it's factored into the cost of your rent. (If you're not a property owner) Conversely you could also pay for and maintain a private well, which still costs you money, especially in filtration.
As far as what price is fair, you don't need to set a price that will have EVERYONE buy it. There will always be piraters. The problem right now is that prices have been artificially kept high, and piraters have been able to tap the huge potential of a portion of the populace to help and support them. If you set prices that make it more hassle/risk than reward (Saving a couple of bucks) the pirate community will wither to a select few, who would never have been customers in the first place. Then, who cares what they do, because there's not enough of them to matter. | |
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See 9 replies to this post | |
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joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday
join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA | I pay $2/ thousand gallons and it keeps going up. After 80K gallons, it's $14/ thousand. My water bill is higher than my internet bill. But my lawn is green. | |
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Alpine
Premium
join:2000-01-11
Atlanta, GA
| quote:
Here is a revolutionary thought ! Help the customer get what they want at a price the market will bare and profit. Instead of fight tooth and nail against a new business model and falter.
That's great and all, but what does that have to do with pirating others' intellectual property? Are you saying that it's fine to take others' work without paying if you don't care for their business model?
You can wax eloquent about the market and their lack of consumer-oriented policies, and those issues are valid. But you lose 100% credibility if your solution to those issues is simply to take things without compensating the creator.
Adam | |
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it Your jumping to a conclusion in saying that I support piracy. I don't , I am a staunch supporter of paying for what you watch. I actually TiVo shows and if the show is good I watch the commercials as well.
The market will pay what it can to get content. If NBC offered their content for 5$ in an economy where people make that a week , what do you expect to happen ? I am not condoning it. But I am calling FUD on the part of NBC. You can not expect people to plunk down a weeks savings to watch tv for an hour. This is not right on their part to expect that of people. The need to do things in scale , but they fear doing that because they feel it cuts down on their profits.
Here in lay the issues for the MPAA and the RIAA , they fail to understand economies of scale and they fail to understand that this thing we call the inter tubes is not under our control. We can't just start interfering with a global system because they feel slighted.
If they would stop doing ridiculous things then maybe they could make more of a profit and prevent runaway salaries like we currently have.
I can't expect a family in Colombia to pay 1.99$ dollar for a show off I tunes. that is some where near 4400 Colombian pesos. and can feed a person lunch there. Now the typical retort will be well then they don't need the show , and should concentrate on the food. Yeah that is all well and good to say that , but because they are third world families doesn't mean they deserve to be un entertained and controlled because they were unfortunate enough to be born into that world. And that is the typical spoiled attitude we as Americans have towards other countries.
With that being said do you think if the show was say 100 Colombian pesos , there would be a chance more people would purchase it in the country instead of grabbing it off their already paid for inter tube thingy ?
We as Americans are spoiled by what we have and don't really look at the world from others points of view. We are falling fast because we have a set of blinders on preventing us from actually seeing the rest of the world.
When NBC decides to play economies of scales they may find themselves in a tight bind. Fox does this and makes a killing in south America , prison break has become a break away hit down there because they played the economy of scales card. Sure its not making them 50 million every episode like the us and Canada markets but it's a strong showing of 2 to 6 million per episode and it hasn't cost them much to play the market.
We will be surpassed by Brazil , China and India in the near future because of greed. And yet people blame piracy for the loss of our ip income. Is it really piracy to blame or is it merely the lack of the ability to throw off the corporate blinders to realize the world is not the US. The only reason we are held in such high regards now is because we have money, and that is it. If we didn't have that and we won't for long , we would be treated like those countries. And when it happens and Brazil's Idol is popular and you have to download it because you can't get it on tv here , maybe you will see how much it affects the people there.
I have said it before and will again. This is a global market now , the companies don't like it because we get options and they can't rake us over the coals any more so their profits dwindle.now we have new corporate overlords to rake us over the coals. Companies like NBC have to realize that our pockets are now emptied globally not just domestically.
While that went a long way it all relates back to the product being sold for a price that a market deems fair enough to purchase. And it varies from person to person. In order to stay competitive you have to cater to the lowest common denominator. So lower the cost or watch your business die. God I love a free market.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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gaforces
United We Stand, Divided We Fall
join:2002-04-07
Santa Cruz, CA | Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it But it is changing! Lame reality shows and gambling! Aught to do wonders for long term profit ...
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The will of the people is the best law. -Ulysses S Grant | |
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA | "You lose 100% credibility if your solution to those issues is simply to take things without compensating the creator."
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru? | |
| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by Cabal :"You lose 100% credibility if your solution to those issues is simply to take things without compensating the creator." That is a lame quote. In that it holds no water in a global market. It is a moral issue at best and doesn't help a company who has no morals when it comes to business.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | No way I'm buying P2P is 60%+ of all internet traffic.
No way. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | well the ISP cant know what im sending. its impossible and hurts performance. and if UPS did deliver drugs or a bomb they arent liable for the laws violated.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by GOLFnSUN :.. the theft of that property will seriously affect the US economy and balance of trade with other nations. It's not theft, it's copyright infringement.
And I see you have drunk deeply of the RIAA koolaid with your statement about the "economy and trade".
I suppose you also believe infringement is worse than robbing someone on the street or robbing a bank? | |
| | | sjr
join:2006-08-27
Osseo, MN
|  Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it
As he says " "Our law enforcement resources are seriously misaligned," Cotton said. "If you add up all the various kinds of property crimes in this country, everything from theft, to fraud, to burglary, bank-robbing, all of it, it costs the country $16 billion a year. But intellectual property crime runs to hundreds of billions [of dollars] a year." "
So there you clearly have it, it is way more important to go after all those IP banditos then stopping real crimes that directly hurt people with real dollars. Obviously industry pseudo dollars lost is much more important than someone getting shot during a burglary or having their entire life stolen from a break in. | |
| | | | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by sjr :According to NBC counsel Rick Cotten it is. » arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···ery.htmlAs he says " "Our law enforcement resources are seriously misaligned," Cotton said. "If you add up all the various kinds of property crimes in this country, everything from theft, to fraud, to burglary, bank-robbing, all of it, it costs the country $16 billion a year. But intellectual property crime runs to hundreds of billions [of dollars] a year." " So there you clearly have it, it is way more important to go after all those IP banditos then stopping real crimes that directly hurt people with real dollars. Obviously industry pseudo dollars lost is much more important than someone getting shot during a burglary or having their entire life stolen from a break in. except your life and home doesnt have a multibillion dollar bribery ring paying congress(excuse me campain donations not bribery).
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | i always drink spring water when at work but then again i use the supplied water coolers. which we are allowed to fill our water bottles from.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | | | Admj
join:2001-01-17
Placentia, CA
| I'm not saying that it is right for people to download illegal software, movies or any other type of media.
But if they can't download it I'm sure they will get it on CD's, DVD's and what ever media they can get illegal stuf.
Just like drugs and anything else people want, they get it one way or another... I just would hate for the goverment to monitor everything we do...
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| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
1 edit | a better question is, is downloading TV shows really piracy? is it illegal? i mean i can flip on my TV and watch NBC for free and if i miss the show how is getting it off a torrent any different then if i used a Tivo. both methods usually eliminate the ads. no this is instead about control, content providers still live in that fantasy world where they think people want to view thing's on the providers time charts. now its an on demand world, CBS has embraced this atleast by putting many of their popular primetime shows on the net.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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microserf
@cgocable.net
| said by GOLFnSUN :Any rules concerning network neutrality that the FCC may eventually adopt after examining the comments must not institutionalize the rampant copyright infringement that now takes place on the internet. I suspect that "rampant copyright infringement" is mainly an exaggeration the xxAAs like hearing. No statistics produced or quoted by a group counting mysterious, unverified "downloads" as lost sales at MSRP carry any sort of weight with the thinking (and, increasingly, breathing) public. Most pets have figured it out too.
said by GOLFnSUN :A huge part of what the US exports is intellectual property and allowing the theft of that property will seriously affect the US economy and balance of trade with other nations. Now that's funny.
Free trade is supposed to create fair trade and competition in a free-market economy. Unfortunately, the well known potential problems have become reality because appropriate safe guards and oversight have not been put in place. We knew this would happen, we came up with strategies to prevent it, then we did nothing.
The result has been a penalty-free trade environment encompassing the majority of the globe. Without the western worlds' legislated environmental and workplace expenses, "developing" nations become the defacto beneficiaries of capital investments into this grossly imbalanced market. The long-term result has been the emergence of a "service" and "intellectual property" western economy. It's a polite way of saying nothing is made here anymore and if you want to eat, you're going to provide a "service".
The service a member of this new economy will perform is said to be based, with less and less actual evidence, on the level of education he or she attains. In reality, the majority of service jobs involve food, waste, and the movement of same. They pay enough to live above the poverty level in most of those developing nations. Enter G8 protests and "homegrown terrorists" (who have no desire to blow anything up...maybe a politician or two...).
Large businesses are the only beneficiaries outside of these new, national, economic "powerhouses." They're the only group with the money to pay bribes, buy justice (or an execs freedom, call it what you will), lobby their western puppets for less regulation and increased temporary worker permits. That last one is genius. Lay off everyone capable of doing a job who won't take a 50% pay cut. Idle the place for a month, then call up your congress critter and ask for some foreign help to combat the "skilled" "worker shortage." m'kay.
A good portion of the planet doesn't work or think in terms of an IP market. Once you show someone in most parts of the world how to use a shovel, they have a hard time understanding why a democracy wants them to pay someone each time they dig a ditch. They immediately see a distinct resemblance between their new trading partners and criminal protection money. Good luck with your national aspirations of becoming consigliere to the new godfather WIPO. | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| id say a green lawn is less important then cheap entertainment. grass is amazingly tough and during dry times holds up amazingly well.
we have a well and still wouldnt waste water on the lawn. just needs some of the fertilzer/weedkiller once and awhile and properly timed mowings.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | 
koma3504
Advocate
Premium
join:2004-06-22
North Richland Hills, TX
| Re: NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it said by Kearnstd :id say a green lawn is less important then cheap entertainment. grass is amazingly tough and during dry times holds up amazingly well. we have a well and still wouldnt waste water on the lawn. just needs some of the fertilzer/weedkiller once and awhile and properly timed mowings. DId you forget that green lawns and trees etc..
produce oxygen for us to breath????
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† Koma †
If YOu Don't Think It's Possable!! It's Acually A Reality!! The best way to predict the future is to invent it. Alan Kay!!
Ya Don't Know The signal Till Ya Ride It!!
Voice Break's There's Trouble!! | |
| | 
pkarlos_76
join:2004-08-24
Edmonton, AB
| said by GOLFnSUN :The complaint is legitimate and the FCC should seriously consider it while examining submitted comments about creating rules on the network neutrality docket at the FCC. Any rules concerning network neutrality that the FCC may eventually adopt after examining the comments must not institutionalize the rampant copyright infringement that now takes place on the internet. A huge part of what the US exports is intellectual property and allowing the theft of that property will seriously affect the US economy and balance of trade with other nations. Legit my ass, see »HTTP Overtakes P2P Traffic And tell me if thier figures are correct! Someone likes eating bull crap. | |
| Modworks
join:2007-02-16
USA
1 edit | More media hype NBC forgets that in this country you are still innocent until proven guilty.
If the federal government knew that 60-70% of the payload was illegal , yes they would stop it.
The question is, how are they to find out ?
Does NBC expect the government to be given the right to open every single package ups has because they "might" be illegal.
This is clearly what NBC wants. How do they know that 90% traffic is illegal ? Are they opening every single packet and inspecting what it is ?
Its just more hype from the media , they aren't making the money they once did and are looking for a scape goat.
p2p is far from 60-70% of all internet traffic.
What these companies want is for there servers to become your internet firewall, where they can decide what you can and cannot access. China anyone ? | |
| |
See 10 replies to this post | |
batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | illegal drugs child pornography The money changers forgot, Terrorists and 9/11. | |
| | 
Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | Boo-Hoo NBC is upset because their programing is so crappy more people watch the lame stuff on Youtube then NBC.
--
Remember safe sex does not prevent crabs. | |
| 
ARGONAUT
got ping?
join:2006-01-24
New Albany, IN | What's next? If you use P2P your supporting terrorism! | |
| | 
hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA | Re: What's next? "hijacked by bandwidth hogs."
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Bandwidth hogs has nothing to do with this. WTF?
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
|
curious2
@countrypartners.com | Stats 70% of all stats are made up! | |
| | SylphFi
Premium
join:2007-06-07
Moses Lake, WA | Re: Stats No, it's 69%.  | |
| 
Mtav80
Premium
join:2002-12-28
Loveland, CO | Question How would they police it? Force all ISPs to monitor every single users net usage? | |
| | Fishie
join:2003-01-14
Riverside, CA
| Re: Question Like this:
quote:
AT&T Inc. has joined Hollywood studios and recording companies in trying to keep pirated films, music and other content off its network — the first major carrier of Internet traffic to do so...
...As AT&T has begun selling pay-television services, the company has realized that its interests are more closely aligned with Hollywood," says AT&T's James Cicconi to the Times....
»www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi···set=true | |
| | | | 
metachronos
join:2005-01-26
Green Bay, WI | Lame The only good show NBC has is The Office, or House if you count it. | |
| | 
Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Re: Lame House is on FOX programming NOT NBC FYI | |
| | | | | | |
Chiyo
Save Me Konata-Chan
Premium
join:2003-02-20
Minneapolis, MN
clubs: | Re: Lame Interesting Thanks for the info | |
|
TraderJoe
| Whatever... And how can they prove that the content is in violation of any law. Nowadays lots of people use encrypted p2p apps (I use GigaTribe: »www.gigatribe.com ), and lots of people are also doing this, so soon no ISP or agency will be able to detect what people are exchanging...and they certainly cannot prove what content is being exchanged over an encrypted network. NBC needs to mind its own bee's nest! | |
| | Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | Re: Whatever... uTorrent forced inbound/outbound encryption, for the win. | |
| 
ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN | wth? I can't believe TCH is actually supporting these people..i bet years down the road the internet will be nothing like it is today, stricted access to certain sites, you go where they let you go, sort to speak. | |
| | 
TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Re: wth? That's exactly what they want. They want to control the internet in the same manner they control every other delivery method.
The internet is stealing their business, but it ain't P2P. They're in a war for eyeballs and they want free reign over the internet, to dictate content, in the same manner they do on TV.
Customers driving the process is anathemic to them. | |
| | 
jhboricua
ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-06
Minneapolis, MN
clubs:
| said by ztmike :I can't believe TCH is actually supporting these people.. LOL, you're serious right? Tell me that was sarcasm.
Let me put it this way. If big corporations such as NBC were the Ori, TCH would be their Prior.
--
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstein
Jose A. Hernandez * IT Technician * MPLS, Minnesota, USA * My website: Zerochill | |
|
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | NBC Universal is RIAA/MPAA ...... ... Enough said!
Lying is not even a moral problem for the likes of them.... | |
| | vick04
join:2006-08-06
South Richmond Hill, NY | Re: NBC Universal is RIAA/MPAA ...... "..complains that P2P accounts for 60%-70% of all Internet traffic."
Umm ALL internet traffic? What about the countrys where its legal to download these types of things? | |
| | | 
Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: NBC Universal is RIAA/MPAA ...... What NBC does is Illegal. They deny good TV watching for the people in America. They put on such crappy shows like Friday night lights, America got talent, 1 vs 100, deal or no deal, the real wedding crashers. Talk about bandwidth hogs with these illegal shows being piped through the NBC cable feed. | |
| | | | 
Edge1
Workin' Ta Live
Premium
join:2006-03-01
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: NBC Universal is RIAA/MPAA ...... said by Jwobot :Talk about bandwidth hogs Good point.
Question: How is recording/watching later a TIVO'd episode of The Office any different from grabbing it off the web? Oh wait, I think the suits at NBC get paid by ratings performance, so I may have answered my own question. The already bloated salaries of a select few are what we're really talking about here. | |
| | | | Josimars
join:2001-04-24
Port Chester, NY
1 edit | I agree with you I hardly watch NBC. That guy Matt Lauer is so corny. I hate to watch him for fearing I will become an airhead like him. Thank God for discover cnn and others | |
| | | AnonShawUser
join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB
| Here's a better situation.. why is it that a TV station in the US, is complaining about what's happening in a global market, where the vast majority of users, and bandwidth, has absolutely nothing to do with any level of content they're even remotely involved in the creation or distribution of?
It'd be like having a small indy band in Greece complain because someone in Australia downloaded a couple of their songs, when there's no way for it to be available locally. | |
| 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| [Eye catching subject would go here] quote:
"Would the government permit Federal Express or UPS to knowlingly operate delivery services in which 60%-70% of the payload consisted of contraband such as illegal drugs or stolen goods? Surely, the government would not turn a blind eye if nearly three-quarters of the Internet's traffic consisted of child pornography."
No, but copyright infringement isn't exactly child pornography or illegal drugs. Last I checked underaged children weren't violated in ways that no child should ever be when I downloaded that MP3 the other day...and I know that I've never taken a bad psychadelic trip and became addicted by watching a tainted TV episode I missed and downloaded from bittorrent.
If they wanted to draw a better comparison, I think they should have asked if the government would let 60-70% of people drive faster then the speed limit. Oh wait, in most metropolitan areas that is the case.
--
Go Colts | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs: | Re: [Eye catching subject would go here] I don't know , Jericho is addicting enough to make people send tons of peanuts to CBS. | |
| | JMGullett
join:2006-11-01
Dallas, GA | THANK YOU! Those were my thoughts when I read this article -- comparing P2P to child pornography is almost too ridiculous for words. | |
|
Marty Cohn
@sbcglobal.net | The only new law we need in this case Is a revision of Godwin’s law.
The first party to compare another party to a child pornographer or a drug trafficker immediately loses credibility.
Marty | |
| | 
MrMoody
Carbon Based Lifeform
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC | Re: The only new law we need in this case Good one, and add terrorists or the funding thereof. | |
| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Hey NBCU... If it wasn't for the bandwidth hogs, you asshats, there would be zero demand for people to watch your content streamed across the internet, meaning less advertising dollars for you, etc. etc.
Methinks, NBCU, you are attacking the wrong group of people. If you are going whine and complain about people stealing something that you are giving away for free anyway, then you shouldn't be lumping all high bandwidth users together, you should be complaining about pirates only.
--
Prove it... | |
| 
texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| Economics of Piracy Suppose I have $10 to my name I'm going to spend. For that $10, I could purchase an album off iTunes, or get a pizza delivered. If I choose to put the $10 into iTunes, I just gave more money to a company and they didn't have to do anything to get that money. The music has already been produced, so all the hired hands have come and gone. My album purchase did not contribute to anything but the profit of the record company (hell, very little of it even went to the artist). Now if I choose to pirate the music and purchase a pizza, I've just paid for a driver to drop it off, for the food products, for the gas, etc. etc. I've contributed to the economy.
The biggest error IP holders make is they assume all piracy is in fact lost sales. I downloaded that Linkin Park CD a few weeks ago to listen to at the office. Now, if everything were perfect and piracy was impossible, I guarandamntee you I would not of purchased that CD. I simply would not of listened to the songs, period. That can be said for just about everything else I downloaded. I'm sure this is true 100 times over, especially since the cost of living is rising faster than wages, people have less elastic income to spend on unnecessary stuff such as CDs.
Also, the quote is being taken out of context. A crime is a crime is a crime, and agree with it or not piracy is a crime. NBC is not saying piracy is as important if not more important than the battle against perverts who like little kids. They are just saying it's staggering over half of the internet traffic is part of some illegal activity.
Finally, in a Democratic society the power of the people should far outweigh that of business. If most Americans feel downloading songs for free should be legal, then it should be. I think the problem of piracy is not that big of a problem at all. The government and the IP holders should put most of their focus on the people who profit selling bootleg IP, not that kid who downloaded the pop song to listen to before school.
--
The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. | |
| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast
·Comcast Formerly ..
| Re: Economics of Piracy The real problem really is the cost of living is just soaring. And when you look at why it's because these people want higher profits to cycle out to the share holders and company management. As if the Lexus is not enough.
Look at what is causing rapid rise in the cost of living. Fuel , entertainment , and housing. Fuel we can control but government doesn't step in and rightly so.
entertainment ! We keep paying these people millions to fling a ball around , why the hell do we. People play it for the love of it all threw their lives.
Housing ! that is sky rocketing , people are trying to "flip" homes. This artificially raises housing costs.
It's greed causing the largest cost increases. and it is indeed scary.
--
"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| what entertainers get paid is just wrong imo. nobody needs millions to make a movie but our culture has allowed them to demand it.
i really care more about the people behind the camera loosing money then those in front of it. if someone like Tom Cruise has to sell the Ferrari and get a measly BMW because of piracy so be it.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| |
scrummie02
Bentley
join:2004-04-16
Arlington, VA
| I agree with some stuff. If someone pirates an album and likes the songs, chances are they'll pay for a concert ticket as well as opposed to not listening to it.
If things were more accessible (no-DRM), and better priced piracy wouldn't occur, as long as the delivery methods were easier than P2P. Look at the success allofmp3 had for a while.
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"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. " - Thomas Jefferson | |
| | ominae
join:2003-05-11
Columbus, OH
| i don't have a problem with a company making a profit on a product. they invest money to make a recording, they have the right to expect a return on that investment.
problem is, besides making a product, a company has to market and distribute that product. they have to sell enough units to break even before they ever see a profit from that product.
this is where they are facing a problem. if the riaa/mpaa fails to get their product into an environment which is convenient and affordable for a consumer to purchase that product they aren't going to move that product and will not see a profit (or as much profit) from that product. to make matters worse, there is a readily available, convenient, reliable and cost effective method of delivery within their grasp, and it is available with minimum investment required to get it up and running because it already exists. these guys should have jumped on the p2p bandwagon years ago. they haven't and know they are suffering. the days of going to the store to buy movies or music aren't gone, but you will find more of that market shifting to different channels, p2p being the biggest.
ps - what is it with companies going to the government to bail them out of a poor business decision. everyone wants a "free market" approach to business until it bites them in the rear. guess what. the market has spoken, it's not our fault if you weren't listening. stop spending tax dollars to protect the riaa/mpaa, the auto industry, the airline industry, the telecom industry. build a product people want, make it affordable, easy to get and as painless to own as possible and you wouldn't be in this mess. | |
| 
Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| . All I hear is a bunch of yelling yet no solution.
Quit your bitching NBC, it's not like the government has an answer to this problem since U.S laws cannot be enforced in other countries so this is a mute point. Either secure your content or get highjacked.
But because there are so many ways to steal video, sound and so forth it has come to the point where you simply cannot stop piracy from happening. Even if you still put huge fines, people will still take it.
Because everyone want's to live a luxurious life like the big boy's so it's only natural for people to obtain luxury by any means necessary even if it resorts to stealing.
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Duct tape, saving lives since 1942. | |
| otis_sh
join:2007-05-04
Ann Arbor, MI
| idea I'm skeptical.
Here's what I'd like to see -- for instance...
A "Netflix" box. Or a "Blockbuster" box. Place it on top of your Comcast box, or your DirecTV box, or whatever.
This box connects to the internet. It's an "on demand" device. Just like 3rd-party VOIP or whatever.
If Mr. Valenti (God rest his soul) had had his way, there wouldn't be any Blockbuster or Netflix or anything else in the first place.
The big corps are speculating, the big corps want a cut of the action. The big corps WANT monopoly power. Didn't they learn anything in economics class? Perhaps they don't care.
The internet is a perfect opportunity to create competition for multimedia services. If movie download companies had their own hardware you could connect to your TV set, with perhaps an optional wireless component that plugs into your router, how many people would choose p2p? Not very many. Today, we have technology available that could out-compete p2p and practically eliminate it as a desirable option. But it's not happening. We have the technology to enable LEGAL internet-based, unlimited on-demand for a nominal monthly fee right underneath our noses. But it's not happening.
Usenet, for instance, is up to something like 4+ terabytes a day (upload). Retentions for some ISPs go up to 120 days. That means some of these companies have storage capacity of 480 terabytes (or more). That's enough storage to rip 48,000+ DVD9's to a redundant hard drive farm of some sort (according to my calculations). So the storage capacity is there - it can be done - a LEGAL internet-based on-demand movie download service is perfectly doable (so long as the customer has a decent, uninhibited, non-oversold broadband connection).
Could you imagine having even 30,000 movies "on demand" through a set-top Blockbuster or whatever box that's connected wirelessly to your home router? Pretty cool, if you asked me. But oh, yeah... download limits -- you'll get cut off. That's "abuse" - you're a "hog". Suuuure... I get it.
Make it easy for the customer, make it affordable for the customer. The technology is there to make internet-based, LEGAL, legitimate "on demand" services available. Why download and burn in an unauthorized way when you can, with a click of a remote, legally and legitimately select from tens of thousands of titles? The on-demand service wins hands-down for ease of use and selection. For instance - Netflix has over 75,000 titles. Why bother with p2p? Waste of time, waste of money - seriously. p2p Is MORE expensive. Where you gonna put 75,000 DVDs? How long is it going to take you to download them? At $2 a piece, that 150K for the blanks alone! It's just so obvious what's going on.
Bandwidth hogs is the wrong way to look at it. The internet can provide some real competition in this area. We have the technology now to create an on-demand service for movies and TV shows that have been released on DVD that can turn the status quo upside down... LEGALLY. But doing that would turn people into bandwidth hogs, so, of course, it won't happen.
I'm totally skeptical about this stuff these monopoly fan-boys are spewing. This is one area of life on earth that just doesn't work.
Besides, with an on-demand service like that, every time someone selects the movie, a royalty goes to that title.
With this kind of talk about bandwidth hogs and this type of characterization of bandwidth as being so precious, the only way an on-demand service will ever happen is through the TV folks. That's probably exactly the way they want it.
Who ever says things like this, although perhaps meaning well, is unknowingly working against the very industry they are trying to help out. Strange how that works. VHS and DVD rental have worked out extremely well, and they are 100% legal. Now that the hard drive capacities have gone up, and as broadband becomes increasingly prevalent, creating a free market for internet-based on-demand services is simply a logical next step.
Internet-based set-top on-demand boxes could be an extremely significant source of revenue for the movie industry. Royalties would be generated from the download alone - no DVD would need to be printed. It would be basically like royalties from nothing (more or less). A single DVD ripped to the rental company's hard drive farm could be downloaded tens of thousands of times, generating a royalty each time. The service would be more user-friendly, and have a vastly greater selection than anything p2p can offer. Perhaps even the hardware could be locked down with DRM, but even so - why would you want to try to extract the data from the hard drive of the set-top box when all you have to do to watch the movie again is just press a button on your remote?
So what the ISP should do is up the capacity so that it's impossible to hog the bandwidth, and get broadband to everyone, and then the movie studios should cut deals with Netflix and the like to enable them to legally offer internet-based on-demand services.
But instead, we have this. Who's fault is it really?
What these executives need to realize is that even though THEY may look good with their nice bottom line when they reap their rewards from the acquisition and exercise of monopoly power, in the long run, they're not doing anyone any good (including themselves). Didn't they learn anything in economics class, or did they forget, or do they just not care?
There is a better way. There's always a better way. But unfortunately, it seems like more often than not, those who are in a position to do something about it don't see things that way.
Oh well. | |
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NBC Universal Laments 'Bandwidth Hogs'
NBC complaint is legit and FCC should consider it
