 
dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA | U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Random number generator? | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by dodgetech2  :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? | |
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53059959
Temp banned from BBR more then anyone
join:2002-10-02
PwnZone | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. its logical to conclude that if they were losing vast amounts of money to piracy, they would do more then just give out a press release stating that we shouldn't pirate their shows. | |
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hmmm
@tel-ott.com | when people with no money and no plans to buy the material take it, how would you value it? 58 billion? | |
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Vertickle
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
 ·Knology
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Surely you are not suggesting that pirating costs businesses $58,000,000,000? | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get
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»davescustompc.com | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
 ·CenturyLink
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by TKJunkMail :Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. 
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A is A | |
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justaguy
@lmco.com | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Your screen name is amazingly appropriate | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So should we effect change..or just take it?
The Revolutionary Army was "criminal"...until they won.
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Hangmn :said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So should we effect change..or just take it? The Revolutionary Army was "criminal"...until they won. Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? I'm 100% sure that when people enjoying their pirated versions of movies and music that are doing it for the "greater good" and are thinking about their contribution to your so called "revolution" and not doing it for their own selfish desires. | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by BF69 :Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? I'm 100% sure that when people enjoying their pirated versions of movies and music that are doing it for the "greater good" and are thinking about their contribution to your so called "revolution" and not doing it for their own selfish desires. And I suppose you are going out to Best Buy every week and buying this swill like a good little consumer?
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| The rampant piracy of content, while it has caused a bunch of bullshit spin and lawsuits has also led to the creation of:
iTunes
Yahoo Music
Real Rhapsody
eMusic
Napster (legal version)
MTV Urge
Zune
Movielink
CinemaNow
BitTorrent Store (legal version)
Vongo
Amazon UnBox
Netflix
Blockbuster Online
Are these options all good ones? Most certainly not. Some are absolutely unusable and are no real step in the right direction. Some however, are quite popular and pretty good (iTunes, Netflix) alternatives to piracy.
Sure, the content "mafiaa" should abandon DRM and get with the program full force instead of pushing out more asinine half-hearted attempts like Vongo, but the fact remains that if there was no rampant piracy of content, digital download services either would be far far worse or would not even exist at all.
As for the statement of $58b in "piracy losses" per year, that's 100% pure bullshit. | |
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| | | | | | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by BF69 :Yes and what change are you effecting by pirating? Ah, there is the rub. I don't trade in pirated **AA content. If it isn't worth paying to see it, it isn't worth seeing at all.
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So many people are in prison in the US because the Laws are out of control, and the legislatures are bought and sold every day...
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hopeflicker
Capitalism breeds greed
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. And that there is the main reason. Buying laws should send people to prison.
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People pray to God because they're told to. | |
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en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. People are buying laws so that they can send people (others) to prison 
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Hangmn :said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. So many people are in prison in the US because the Laws are out of control, and the legislatures are bought and sold every day... You're right! Damn those laws against murder, rape, child molestation and drug dealing!!!!!!!! | |
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Hangmn
Don't Fight It...It's Inevitable
Premium
join:2000-04-08
Philadelphia, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by BF69 :You're right! Damn those laws against murder, rape, child molestation and drug dealing!!!!!!!! You are truley showing your ignorance son
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»davescustompc.com | |
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| | | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | You were doing so well until you threw "drug dealing" into the mix... | |
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ph03n1x
join:2003-02-15
Sanford, FL
| Yeah right laws against child molestation. What a fucking joke those laws have been made into lately. People that do that should be put down like rabid dogs, but these days we have people in jail for longer for copying DVDs or possessing a little bit of weed. Child rapists are constantly being let out of jail early or given light sentences. Disgusting. | |
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Yauch
join:2005-06-24 | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. I'd vote for it, lets do it. | |
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| | | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON | Yeah, it's because you can go to jail for having a roach in your ash tray. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by yabos :Yeah, it's because you can go to jail for having a roach in your ash tray. First of all pot is ILLEGAL. If you wish it not to be do something about it or move to Canada or Alaska. Secondly in most states just having a roach in your ashtray won't get you any jail time. Maybe a years probabtion at most. Thirdly if you are that dumb to leave a roach in your ashtry for the cops to find maybe you deserve jail. | |
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| | | | | | yabos
join:2003-02-16
Ingersoll, ON
| Yeah it's illegal and I won't argue about whether it should be or not but it'd really dumb they would throw someone in jail for such a small amount when the person isn't hurting anything. If they have 10lbs in their trunk then throw the book at them but when the person isn't hurting anyone except perhaps themselves it's not a good thing to throw someone in jail for that.
I don't live in the States but I do watch Cops and they arrest people for things like that. They say "oh it's not a big deal but we're arresting you.." | |
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vzw emp
@qwest.net | Move to Denver. If the cops find an ounce or less it's legal. | |
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| | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| said by TKJunkMail :Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. (bolding mine)
Call us when you actually have some data to back that supposed theory you have outlined here since, as the facts would stand, it is wrong.
Maybe we should start locking people up who state things as fact without data to back it up... Hmmm.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. | |
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| | | | justin147
join:2006-02-28
Centerville, UT
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. NO, NO, NO, people are not that stupid. Most educated people don't wonder, but rather lament the fact so many people are in prison in the US. The vast majority of U.S. prisoners are non violent offenders. You Wana lock someone up now and force me to pay my taxes to in-prison a broke college student who likes to listen to music and shares his collection with other like minded students? Get Real. | |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. Because incarceration is big business and big profits? | |
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| | | | Gruesome
join:2007-10-18
Milton, ON
·Cogeco Cable
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| said by TKJunkMail :said by Hangmn :Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. F'k em I screw em every chance I get Ah, the philosophy of every criminal that goes thru the criminal justice system. And people wonder why so many people are in prison in the US. If more bankers were in Jail I might agree | |
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| | | st7860
join:2004-05-13
San Francisco, CA
| said by Hangmn :said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get I couldn't agree with you more. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by Hangmn :said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? Who cares what it costs businesses. These idiots are in an arena where they are obviously out classed. If it can be done it will be done period. What about the money businesses are costing families? With no congressional oversite on health care..the sub prime mortgage screw ups, which buy the way the middle class will be bailing out and so on. F'k em I screw em every chance I get So you're the "cut your nose to spite you face" kind of guy huh? Yes screw big business which only provide the JOBS that provide Americans with the moeny they need to live. Real fricken smart. I am assuming you know what a JOB is. | |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Small businesses create the jobs that provide Americans with the money they need to live. Big businesses just fuck that up.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp | |
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superdog
I Need A Drink
Premium,MVM
join:2001-07-13
Lebanon, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Draxsr :
The sub-prime "screw up's" aren't a government problem. It's a greed problem. The people in this country have issues with living within their means. No one forces one to sign a mortgage without giving it your own due diligance. Opting for an absurd, adjustable rate rests solely on the moron signing the paperwork. And I'd love to meet the moron who signs up for an 'interest only' mortgage where their payments pay ONLY the interest and nothing on the principle. It's what happens when someone making 30K/year thinks they need to live in a 300K house. It's sad and those morons do not deserve to be bailed out by the taxes others, who know how to live within their means, shell out. IMHO, YMMV.
That is a perfect statement, and one I wish I made myself.
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»www.wavecrazy.net Join WISPA today! »www.wispa.org/ | |
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Bas
@comcast.net
 from:
madrhino
bear73
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by superdog :said by Draxsr :
The sub-prime "screw up's" aren't a government problem. It's a greed problem. The people in this country have issues with living within their means. No one forces one to sign a mortgage without giving it your own due diligance. Opting for an absurd, adjustable rate rests solely on the moron signing the paperwork. And I'd love to meet the moron who signs up for an 'interest only' mortgage where their payments pay ONLY the interest and nothing on the principle. It's what happens when someone making 30K/year thinks they need to live in a 300K house. It's sad and those morons do not deserve to be bailed out by the taxes others, who know how to live within their means, shell out. IMHO, YMMV.
That is a perfect statement, and one I wish I made myself. The problem with your little theory is that in most suburban areas next to a MAJOR CITY a 1200 square foot house on a postage stamp sized lawn costs $250,000.00. So where do you suppose people should live, a cardboard box? | |
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| | | | | | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by Bas :
The problem with your little theory is that in most suburban areas next to a MAJOR CITY a 1200 square foot house on a postage stamp sized lawn costs $250,000.00. So where do you suppose people should live, a cardboard box?
Plenty of larger and cheaper places are available, in places like North Philadelphia, Camden, East St. Louis, Anacostia, etc.... | |
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drdaleemille
join:2000-06-17
Norfolk, VA
| said by BF69 :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? I have an M.A. in economics and I still need someone to explain to me what economic loss means in this context. Suppose that I pirate TV shows, and because I don't spend my money on cable I am able to make bigger car payments, so I buy a more expensive car. Or I am able to invest more, which gives businesses more capital. Has the national economy lost anything, or is it a wash? NBC may have lost, but does the U.S. lose? | |
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| | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. OUTSTANDING summary of the imaginary vs actual impact of file sharing. Thank you for posting! | |
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by ross :OUTSTANDING summary of the imaginary vs actual impact of file sharing. Thank you for posting! The NEW study being discussed here isn't just MUSIC ONLY like the studies you quote. It also includes movies, books, etc.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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| | | | | ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by TKJunkMail :The NEW study being discussed here isn't just MUSIC ONLY like the studies you quote. It also includes movies, books, etc. From ArsTechnica:
"Study: P2P effect on legal music sales "not statistically distinguishable from zero"
By Ken Fisher | Published: February 12, 2007 - 08:49AM CT
A new study in the Journal of Political Economy by Felix Oberholzer-Gee and Koleman Strumpf has found that illegal music downloads have had no noticeable effects on the sale of music, contrary to the claims of the recording industry.
Entitled "The Effect of File Sharing on Record Sales: An Empirical Analysis," the study matched an extensive sample of music downloads to American music sales data in order to search for causality between illicit downloading and album sales. Analyzing data from the final four months of 2002, the researchers estimated that P2P affected no more than 0.7% of sales in that timeframe.
The study compared the logs of two OpenNAP P2P servers with sales data from Nielsen SoundScan, tracking the effects of 1.75 million songs downloads on 680 different albums sold during that same period. The study then took a surprising twist. Popular music will often have both high downloads and high sales figures, so what the researchers wanted was a way to test for effects on albums sales when file-sharing activity was increased on account of something other than US song popularity. Does the occasionally increased availability of music from Germany affect US sales?
The study looked at time periods when German students were on holiday after demonstrating that P2P use increases at these times. German users collectively are the #2 P2P suppliers, providing "about one out of every six U.S. downloads," according to the study. Yet the effects on American sales were not large enough to be statistically significant. Using this and several other methods, the study's authors could find no meaningful causality. The availability and even increased downloads of music on P2P networks did not correlate to a negative effect on music sales.
"Using detailed records of transfers of digital music files, we find that file sharing has had no statistically significant effect on purchases of the average album in our sample," the study reports. "Even our most negative point estimate implies that a one-standard-deviation increase in file sharing reduces an album's weekly sales by a mere 368 copies, an effect that is too small to be statistically distinguishable from zero."
The study reports that 803 million CDs were sold in 2002, which was a decrease of about 80 million from the previous year. The RIAA has blamed the majority of the decrease on piracy, and has maintained that argument in recent years as music sales have faltered. Yet according to the study, the impact from file sharing could not have been more than 6 million albums total in 2002, leaving 74 million unsold CDs without an excuse for sitting on shelves.
So what's the problem with music? The study echoes many of the observations you've read here at Ars. First, because the recording industry focuses on units shipped rather than sold, the decline can be attributed in part to reduced inventory. Gone are the days when Best Buy and others wanted a ton of unsold stock sitting around, so they order less CDs. The study also highlighted the growth in DVD sales during that same period as a possible explanation for why customers weren't opening their wallets: they were busy buying DVDs."
I think it's likely the above referenced study is equally applicable to movies, books, etc.. Other independent studies have established file sharing has aided, rather than sapped, industry profitability through these transitional times. It is high time the industry embraced the futility of DRM, and the success of file sharing as a low cost distribution channel.
Astro-turf "think tanks" like IPI are the handmaidens of industry propaganda machines, cheerfully creating, for a fee, fallacious fantasy-fulfilling "reports/studies" in support of the illogical and unbelievable spew of industry PR departments. | |
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voiplover
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Portsmouth, NH | Makes me want to go POP some CORN now! | |
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| | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by BF69 :Surely you are not suggesting that priratng cost businesses NOTHING? How would you design a metric to determine what the **AA is losing to piracy? Do you assume that every pirated copy of a movie is a lost sale? On what basis do you make that assumption? What if nobody offered pirated content, and sales remained at their current levels?
The **AA estimates their losses by first taking a WAG at how many copies of Titanic the public would buy, if they couldn't get a pirated copy. Then they take a WAG at how many pirated copies are floating around on the Internet. They subtract the second WAG from the first WAG, and derive the dollar amount of sales not made; but the result of their wagging is: WAG/A - WAG/B = WAG/X.
A WAG is still a WAG, no matter how the **AA spins it.
NOTE: WAG = Wild Assessed Guess
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Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? apparently not quite random, as the number gets higher with every new "study". | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by nasadude :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? apparently not quite random, as the number gets higher with every new "study". People that probably collect welfare and food stamps yet have money to buy cigs are pirating more and more each day. | |
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dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·ProLog
 ·Vonage
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. said by BF69 :said by nasadude :said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? apparently not quite random, as the number gets higher with every new "study". People that probably collect welfare and food stamps yet have money to buy cigs are pirating more and more each day. why does almost every single post by you have a reference to welfare in it?
are you that much of a troll that you just post that stupid crap in every thread? | |
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zachary1
you talkin' to me?
join:2004-03-07
right here | Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. Because he is a right-wing dork sporking the Pigman Limbaugh party line. | |
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fatness
subtle
Janitor
join:2000-11-17
fishing
·EarthLink
Host:
Earthlink DSL
TekSavvy
Forum Feature Requ..
Need Site Help?
Rants, Raves, and ..
| »arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20···pit.html
quote:
One of the biggest bombshells from the cross-examination was Pariser's admission that the RIAA's legal campaign isn't making the labels any money, and that, furthermore, the industry has no idea of the actual damages it suffers due to file-sharing.
The admission came during questioning over the amount of damages the RIAA is seeking in the case. Toder asked Pariser how much Sony was suing the defendant for, and she replied that the amount was for the jury to decide and that the labels weren't suing for actual damages. As is the case with the other file-sharing lawsuits, the record industry is only seeking the punitive damages available via the Copyright Act, which can range from $750 to $150,000 per song. "What are your actual damages?" asked Toder.
"We haven't stopped to calculate the amount of damages we've suffered due to downloading, but that's not what's at issue here," replied Pariser, who was reminded by Judge Michael Davis to answer the questions actually asked by Toder, not hypotheticals.
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Sure, that'll work.. | |
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| madeyex
join:2007-10-02
Wiscasset, ME
| Hey... I was more than happy to pay $1.99 on iTunes every week just to watch Heroes. I do not have cable and this was a great alternative. The only shows that I really follow are Heroes and Battlestar. I work 6 days a week so cable tv is out of the question since I spend most of my time online after work. All that NBC did was screw themselves over. My friends and I cannot get them on iTunes so where will we go to get them? Its as if they are pushing us to pirate their tv shows. Fking morons. /slow clap | |
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| | russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| Re: U.S. economy loses $58 billion from piracy every year. NBC is still available over the air. You could get it that way. (that's what I do... and big criminal that I am, I skip the commercials. And I've got an automatic thing set up so when Hiro or Claire flogs a car, it replaces what they say with "Porsche". BWAHAHAHAHA) | |
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| | jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL | Re: Full study can be found at links included below Still too long. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
2 edits | I've about had enough of the popular press repeating whatever bogus "piracy" numbers the copyright holders make up, without any question or analysis, implying to the public that they're valid.
A supposed lack of sales that hypothetically might have happened under conditions contrary to fact, is not a "loss" under any reasonable or recognized accounting principles. If a company put such an item on its financial statements as a "loss", the stockholders could sue for fraud and the SEC would punish the management and force a re-accounting. That's because it's fiction.
Of course as everyone knows, too, they assume every infringer would have bought a copy at full retail price, so it's becoming a question of whether reporters are complicit in foisting this BS on the readers, or how bizarre and preposterous the claims can be before the media will start questioning them. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| if piracy is so bad then why did NBC pull their content from the most popular source of legal downloaded content(iTunes).
and downloading TV shows isnt really much different then watching it on your Tivo, both ways you dont see the ads.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the DVD thing has merit, if i have $20 in my hand and a choice between a DVD and a CD im going to buy the movie as its overall reusable entertainment value is greater.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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Maranello
ChannelFlip
Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-08
Butler, PA
·Armstrong Zoom In..
| said by dodgetech2 :Random number generator? It said I lost 730 million this year by not playing the lottery every week. | |
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peaCOCK
@verizon.net
from:
Transmaster
| play on words to catch a peaCOCK.
NBC actually has something you want to watch?
Pfft. | |
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docshawnc
join:2000-12-14
Blue Bell, PA | NBC Piracy It sounds like 'ol Jeff Zucker might be spending way too much time with the crack pipe:) | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27 | No Body Cares We want others to be accountable for our failure to protect our interests (er, profit). | |
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ccoggle
join:2001-08-06
Salt Lake City, UT
| 58 Billion I don't know how they are making this number up....
I personally don't watch any of the crap played on NBC. However, if I did I would TiVo it and and fast forward through the commercials.
So really...isn't TiVo the same as piracy? How is TiVo any different than downloading it from the 'net and watching it without the commercials? | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA
·AT&T Yahoo
| Re: 58 Billion I am right there with you, doing the very same thing. I will buy the products I need, no matter the advertising.
But look at what they did to ReplayTV. As I recall, it had an auto-skip feature that filtered out the commercials on the fly. I think they were sued out of business. Wonder what the loss numbers claimed by the networks were then?
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There is not a man in the country that can't make a living for himself and family. But he can't make a living for them AND his government, the way his government is living. What the government has got to do is live as cheap as the people.
- Will Rogers | |
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dr3yec
join:2002-12-19
00000 | Re: Mandatory network equipment filtering will mean... All I got to say is encryption. They can filter all they want. There will always be ways around it. But NBC waste your time. Because when it comes down to it. It is all a waste a time. | |
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
1 edit | This is what is wrong
A 19.95 cheap calculator |
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Eat a BLT for Iran | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Mandatory network equipment filtering will mean... How, exactly, is a device supposed to filter out unauthorized content?
The only way it could be done accurately or reliabily would be by disallowing everthing that lacks a digital signature from the copyright holder - plus a vast infrastructure to make sure that only verified copyright holders can give the signatures.
Of course, you would have to get a digital signature on your homemade video of your kids or your vacation, in order to be allowed to send it to your mom or make your TV or computer display it. And to get that digital signature you would have to go through a verification process, proving to some authority that you are the real copyright owner. Again, this is the only way Hollywood could prevent its movies and TV shows being copied without permission. This would suit the copyright cartel just fine, because it would place high barriers to anyone other than big companies creating content.
This may seem absurd, but in fact there is no way that the copyright freaks' dream of pervasive DRM could work without disallowing all unsigned content. Allowing copying by default and trying to detect unauthorized copies would require (a) ability to identify every file being copied anywhere in the world; (b) a database of all copyrighted works, which does not exist and could hardly be created even if the whole Gross National Product were devoted to the project; and (c) a equally gigantic set of data indicating what permissions have been granted by every copyright holder for every file; (d) ability to check every file against these gigantic databases every time someone tries to copy it.
So these Hollywood people are talking out of some fantasy-land. The problem is that their demands are being taken seriously. The combination of technical ignorance and legislators being in thrall to lobbyists makes it an uphill battle to head off harmful laws based on extremist demands. | |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
| go go pirates They lower the demand for entertainment industry's product. With lower demand, the price they can charge is lower. This translates into savings for me!
I don't see the problem, NBC can go get a court order to reveal the identity of someone redistributing their material, then bring that person to court. No need to inconvenience the rest of us with that crap | |
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woody7
Premium
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA
·EarthLink
·DSL EXTREME
| pfft... Their business model is whoa fully out of date, they are late to adopt to new technology and want the government to step in and save their keesters (read help keep their revenue stream).I'm not for pirating, but the shot gun approach is not the answer. If it is done at a fair price and decent quality, then what is the pirater's excuse? I don't pirate, but I also don't want equipment forced on me because of them.Peace
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BlooMe | |
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cypherstream
Looking forward to the future of things.
Premium,MVM
join:2004-12-02
Reading, PA
clubs:
| High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy.
Seriously, who want's to pay $5.99 for a small popcorn, $3.30 for a small soda, and $8.99 just to get in?
That's $30.57 plus tax for two people to get in, share a small popcorn and each have their own small soda.
Hiway robbery. I'd rather watch the movie in my home with my HDTV, full control of pausing it, and dirt cheap 50 cent large microwaveable popcorn bags.
NBC is trying to think of every excuse possible. Perhaps lowering ticket and concession prices in the theater would convince me to have the 'theater experience' a little more often. | |
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| vanDSLuser
Unimaxx for your biz
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Vancouver, BC
1 edit | Re: High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy The ironic thing, the farmers likely get a similar amount for the crop either way. I don't think the farmer is getting a better price for theater corn.
Ed: sp | |
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| | KraziJoe
join:2006-09-08
Alexandria, VA
·Comcast
| Re: High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy said by vanDSLuser :The ironic thing, the farmer likely get a similar amount for the crop either way. I don't think the farmer is getting a better price for theater corn. Not to mention the fact of subsidies and ehtanol is keeping their prices high. So in fact, this is not hurting the corn farmer at all, but the theater owner who makes nary a profit from the movie but the selling of concessions.
As for the Piracy. How many people have watched a TV Show and saw a commercial and had to go out and buy that product?
Personally, I think NBC should be more concerned about putting on high quality shows that are intelligent and are not dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. The money they make off of Deal or No Deal makes up for any so called piracy they may encounter.
There is a reason that shows on FX, HBO, Sho, TNT, etc are winning awards. | |
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| | | vanDSLuser
Unimaxx for your biz
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Vancouver, BC
·TELUS
| Re: High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy Agreed on the corn. It's one of the reasons I don't go to theaters. I don't want to pay $10 to listen to some stupid kid's cellphone conversation and have gum on the seats. I've got a nice big HDTV and 5.1 at home - and I can pause it whenever.
As for the tv front it would help a lot if they made it really simple to access the shows. Trying to jack the prices on iTunes was the stupidest mistake NBC could have made. DRM is up there, make it easy for people to watch legal content, and they will.
I don't mind the odd ad on Joost if they're short (ie, under 10s at a time, max 3 per hour of tv), not annoying and don't repeat the same stupid ad 50 trillion times.
NBC wants to stop piracy - when you leave people no choice, stop trying to pass the buck and blame everyone else. Your total lack of business intelligence is not my problem. Why should I pay for your stupidity? I don't watch much tv - what I do is usually from Joost or other legal sources. Why should I have to use my CPU cycles for your mistakes. | |
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| moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by cypherstream :High movie theater prices hurt corn farmers more than piracy. And who do you think is responsible for those high prices? The movie companies themselves.
Movie theaters make NO money off of the movie itself. They must make their operating costs from the concession stand. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the farmers arent hurting too bad now that any lost corn sales to popcorn companies gets sold at 3x the price for Ethanol production.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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dualsub2006
join:2007-07-18
Newport, KY
| DVR anyone??? I just don't get why anyone would pirate a TV show. I have 3 DVR's in my house and I LEGALLY record what I want to watch. I am sure that NBC still considers this theft but the law says that I can do it.
Why in the world would anyone wait to download a crappy file off of the intertubes when you can get a great, high quality copy legally and for FREE.
I guess I am retarded because I actually buy movies, some music (subscribe to XM and Sirius so I don't buy much) and I even buy DVD sets for a couple of TV shows. To me, downloading TV shows from some torrent is ignorant. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| Re: DVR anyone??? That's just the point. NBC CONSIDERS IT THEFT. That's what this entire scenario is all about. NBC, which broadcasts it's shows for FREE, considers the DVR to be theft. NBC, which broadcasts for FREE, considers downloading a torrent of said show to be theft.
The problem isn't with your DVR. The problem isn't with downloading a torrent. The problem is that NBC has LOST CONTROL. That's what they are bitching about. IF NBC had it their way, you wouldn't be able to record a show. If NBC had it their way, you wouldn't be able to use the bathroom while watching TV shows.
This is a control issue. The problem NBC has run into, is that MANY consumers have realized (like yourself), that they can use technology to view the TV show on THEIR terms, not on NBC's terms. That' scares them, that's why they make up outrageous numbers. They want to CONTROL what you watch, WHEN you watch it, HOW you watch it, and they want to be able to CHARGE you to watch it again. That's their ultimate goal. Charge you EVERY TIME you see it. No DVD's. Just DRM released shows that expire 1 hour after you watch it. You won't be able to OWN anything, you can only RENT it, and pay for it over and over again.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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LuisRodg
Premium
join:2002-07-28
Miami
| Just wanted to make a quick point:
Why do you refer to "crappy file off of the intertubes"...You can get torrents of tv shows in 720p which is HD quality...not crappy at all.
Another point:
I dont own a TV, nonetheless a DVR...Im just a college student so I get my shows with torrents. The Office, Prison Break, My Name Is Earl, Lost, Cops. Thats it I think. | |
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| | mobbo
join:2005-04-13
Denton, TX
 ·Verizon FIOS
2 edits | Re: DVR anyone??? Word. I cancelled my Charter cable a few weeks ago and I've been surviving just fine w/o commercials via BitTorrent in HD... most 720p... and regular ol' HD via bunny-ear antenna. Obviously this guy is searching the wrong BT trackers for videos... or using BearShare/Limewire.
Most TV shows are available on quality, private trackers the same night. The Daily Show and Colbert Report just an hour after the show airs.
Marx is right. I can watch whatever I want to watch whenever I want to watch on my own terms. NBC and other networks are just middlemen who must adapt or just keep acting like morons and sue their way out of the problem which will NOT work and cause their own demise in the coming years. | |
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anonymouse5
@rr.com
| Re: DVR anyone??? I, on the other hand, am perfectly happy to pay for (for example) Showtime, who produce original programming which I like. I don't *have* to pay for it, I could get it for free, but I want to throw them some money so they'll keep making the stuff I like.
That's the only remaining sustainable business model: make people like your product enough that they *want* to give you money. Bands can now make more money giving away their albums on the Internet and asking for donations, than they can by getting a record contract. The RIAA/MPAA model of *forcing* people to give them money in order to watch their material is permanently dead; they just haven't noticed yet. | |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
| There are Lies, Damned Lies, and then There are Piracy Loss Statistics.
The numbers as usual are grossly overinflated compared
to reality.
And how is it that the industry can make such a claim
when they seem to be raking it in with billions in
profits from movies, etc.?
Mr. Zucker is of the same mentality as that Sony/BMG
anti piracy lawyer who said that ripping your own CDs
to put onto a portable player or into another format
is stealing. Both are equally full of BS.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Re: There's a reason that NBC is mired in fourth place.... I have not watch NBC in many years and I couldn't even tell you what their program lineup is these days, ditto for CBS, and NBC. When you have channels like the History Channel, the Discovery Channels, etc you realize just how bad their programing is.
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
1 edit | Re: There's a reason that NBC is mired in fourth place.... said by Transmaster :I have not watch NBC in many years and I couldn't even tell you what their program lineup is these days, ditto for CBS, and NBC. When you have channels like the History Channel, the Discovery Channels, etc you realize just how bad their programing is. NBC owns more that just NBC. They own USA and the SCI-FI channel just to name a few. NBC hasn't gotten to big for it's britches or have they?
The formation of NBC Universal saw the establishment of NBC Universal Cable, which oversees the distribution, marketing, and advertisement sales for thirteen channels (Bravo, Bravo HD+ (eventually renamed Universal HD), Chiller, CNBC, CNBC World, MSNBC, mun2, Sci Fi, ShopNBC, Telemundo, Sleuth, USA Network, Weather Plus, and the Olympic Games on cable). NBC Universal Cable also manages the company's investments in A&E, the History Channel, History Channel International, the Biography Channel, National Geographic International, the Sundance Channel, and TiVo.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC_Universal | |
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| | | vanDSLuser
Unimaxx for your biz
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Vancouver, BC | Re: There's a reason that NBC is mired in fourth place.... Does the TiVo still have a fast forward button or has NBC tried their best to protect us from the evils of skipping bad ads. | |
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myosh
join:2001-05-03
Cupertino, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: There's a reason that NBC is mired in fourth place.... said by vanDSLuser :Does the TiVo still have a fast forward button or has NBC tried their best to protect us from the evils of skipping bad ads. Much to NBC's dismay, yes TiVo still has a fast-forward button. A button, might I add, that gets quite a workout from me. | |
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StudioTech
S2409W plus SA4250HD
join:2001-10-10
Edison, NJ
| said by qworster :There's a reason that NBC is mired in fourth place among the top 4 networks (ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC). It's poor management, making bad desisions! This is yet another example of that poor management again. They'd better wise up, or they'll be there permanently! They've just about killed Deal or No Deal when they aired it 3 times a week. Now, since noone has hit the million since it started, the show is ADDING million dollar cases to the board until someone finally hits one. A Jump the Shark moment if there was ever one. | |
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SEREGA784
join:2001-12-26
Penfield, NY | Most are NOT in the US BUT. Isn't MOST of pirated stuff is being used by people in other countries. Only small amount (comparing to overall) is in usa. ??? | |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
1 edit | What next... You aren't allowed to tivo or record a show onto vhs? My god, NBC is being very greedy. It's one thing to protect your content, its another to make everyone else's life hell. Wouldn't the ISP become liable if they started filtering traffic, btw? If they accidentally filtered your home movies, and they were lost, I can see a lot of lawsuits. If NBC wants to do something, why not encrypt their broadcasts somehow. There probably is a way, to prevent recording in general. If not, tough. Everyone shouldn't have to suffer for the actions of a few. Nor should ISPS be forced to play middle man and risk the liability. | |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
Premium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| NBC TV last time I looked TV was still free (OTA) and the shows are ALREADY paid for by the sponsors (i.e. commercials) so with this in mind, how do you 'pirate' something thats already free? It is NO different than using a dvr/vcr/tivo - none at all.
Movies (big-screen) now are a different story.. one we wo't get into here as this topic is for NBC (a TV network) | |
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kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
| Who's to blame? Consumers pirate because this crap costs too much. Theaters charge so much because they get little of the movie revenue in the opening weeks. Studios take so much because the actors on payroll are making millions, but that's what it takes to get them. So, who's to blame for the inflated salaries? Us, the consumers, to some degree. A dog will eat itself to death if you keep feeding it.
NBC is complaining about something they contributed to by increasing salaries, but they're just part of the cycle. Pro sports, like football and baseball, are the same. Bidding wars to get the best of the best drive up salaries, and the bidders do so because of the insane amount of money they made on the previous product. Then with the cut in profit due to the higher payout, they raise the prices next time around. Repeat this cycle over years and you get $10 movie tickets with theaters still struggling to make money, consumers complaining they can't legally afford to enjoy the content anymore, and actors running around insanely rich.
Bottom line here is that nobody is right in this vicious circle. The studios, the actors, the theaters, the pirates all are at fault. The only way to stop it is a massive correction by someone breaking the chain. The legal way is to stop buying the content. Unfortunately, the consumers are gratifying themselves while making their point by just stealing it. | |
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Empmark
| Control KarlMarxx's post above says it all for me. Try to come up with a way to distribute recorded content through your house or to a mobile devices. Can't do it. Media Center, cable or satellite boxes or tivos. I've used them all. The content IS restricted for those of us paying for it. All I want to do is watch a show I recorded on a TV downstairs instead of upstairs, or maybe my computer. Sorry, can't do it. I need a dvr on every device I have and then set up the recordings on each device. Hmmmm. Thanks for giving us paying customers access to content. I can't figure out why anyone would download this content illegelly | |
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joker5656
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA
·Charter Pipeline
| What about lower PRICE well, what about making a movie 12$. surely a movie can't cost 20$ still to make. Technology will save us money, no? Oh wait it saves the company that charges us a arm and a leg. If they made the price of a movie go down then they wouldn't be where they are now. Its simple economics, there powered by greed and always will be. Until they lower the price there's always going to be pirated movies and what not out there, and trust me someone will find a way to get around the filters, they always do and always will | |
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Richard B
Fur It Up
join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
·Comcast
| Just One Thing Lets see how the piracy excuse to other areas. I love Halibut but the prices are astronomical about $11.00 to $14.00 per pound, it has gotten to the point to where tenderloin steaks are cheaper. Because of high prices, I go to the grocery store and help my self to a few packages of halibut fillets without paying for them, and give a few to my friends. When the story tries to stop me for shoplifting, can I call it unfair to stop me from taking halibut from the store because of high prices.
Theft it Theft
ps If the industry is losing to the looter perhaps the solution is Atlas Shrugged. | |
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NBC Wants Piracy Filters on Home Network Hardware?
