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|  elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | its also free to stream on the NOVA web site and Hulu | |
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| | DataCenter was on the History channel some time ago- not news at all.
And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? Id be more worried about Google selling your data to anyone wishing to pay for it- which they will! | |
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|  vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: DataCenter said by 25139889:And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? That argument is so tired & cliche that only those with a complete lack of creativity even bother with it anymore. Why not let the FBI put a camera in every room of your home? You've got nothing to hide! | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·Callcentric
1 edit | Re: DataCenter said by vpoko:said by 25139889:And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? That argument is so tired & cliche that only those with a complete lack of creativity even bother with it anymore. Why not let the FBI put a camera in every room of your home? You've got nothing to hide! Interesting how that is apparently tiring and a cliche while the ad naseum 'government is out to get me' paranoia is not.
Personally, I more concerned about all of these private (unaccountable) corporations that are amassing massive amounts of data on us this very day, than some tin-foil paranoia about our government.
You realize with some basic information about you, I can buy your every detail from data-mining companies and there is nothing you can do about it. That to me is more of a threat than my government. | |
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| | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: DataCenter Concern about one doesn't preclude concern about the other.
Both the government and private companies have a documented history of misusing information to go after citizens. It doesn't take a tin-foil hat to assume that it could happen again given the history. | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
| Re: DataCenter said by vpoko:Concern about one doesn't preclude concern about the other.
Both the government and private companies have a documented history of misusing information to go after citizens. It doesn't take a tin-foil hat to assume that it could happen again given the history.
Indeed, however one is accountable to the American people the other is not.
For obvious reasons, data-mining is heavily regulated in developed nations and you can opt to have all of your information removed when you seize doing business with a company. Moreover, you can opt-out of having any sort of data about you stored by third-parties. | |
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| | | | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | Re: DataCenter And you should be able to do it here. You won't hear me defending companies' data collection policies.
But on the government end of things, accountability is tough when people aren't given information on what the government is doing. I'm not naive, I realize that certain intelligence and law enforcement activities require secrecy. But if there is domestic electronic surveillance happening on a massive scale, and we don't know the extent of it, we can't exactly hold anyone accountable. | |
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| | | | | elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | NSA is no more accountable then Google is whats your point | |
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| | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | That argument is so tired & cliche that only those with a complete lack of creativity even bother with it anymore. Why not let the FBI put a camera in every room of your home? You've got nothing to hide!
Interesting how that is apparently tiring and a cliche while the ad naseum 'government is out to get me' paranoia is not. Personally, I more concerned about all of these private (uncountable) corporations that are amassing massive amounts of data on us this very day, than some tin-foil paranoia about our government.
The one major difference between the two is "liberty"... a corporation has no ability to take away your liberty but the government does.
These corporations that are mining your data are largely doing so in order to sell you something. Do you NOT see the difference?
There's also something called the constitution. You know, that document that basically is the DNA and foundation of this country?... think back to the period of time when this country was founded as well... can you remember any wars or battles that were fought, where people died and stuff.. yea.. people died too. They didn't die for your right to live ad free.. but they did die for your right to not be oppressed by your government - in fact they went as far as to ensure that the new government was going to be we the people.
It really saddens me to sit here and see people, such as yourself and NW Ohio, who clearly have no common ground with their country. The "you have nothing to hide" argument is a sign of "I have no idea what this country is founded on".. and your attempt to tie a corporation into government and compare what the two do with your information also shows the lack of desire to focus on what this argument is really about.. it also shows your own selfish arguments.. I get it, you're one of those "I can't be botherd" people.
You realize with some basic information about you, I can buy your every detail from data-mining companies and there is nothing you can do about it. That to me is more of a threat than my government.
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| | | | Reviews:
·Callcentric
| Re: DataCenter Alex Jones is that you?
said by fiberguy:You sir are ignorant. Corporations are out for money.. the government, thus far, does not control your liberty - that's your freedom in case you didn't know (which based on your comments I'm sure you don't know that so now you do).. a corporation can't take
your freedom away, only the govenment can. Of course I'm ignorant because I do not buy you liberty rant or baseless government is out to get me nonsense. The irony is that money and power do indeed go hand in hand. If you think it's just about wealth, you are a fool.
Nevertheless, whenever I hear someone going on some tirade about liberty, I think of those wackos who have kids locked up in their basements that want their privacy. Kind of like Phillip Craig Garrido who would go on the exact same rants whenever authorities questioned him.
Once again, one scenario is based on fact and reality, the other is right up there with the rest of the tin-foil conspiracies. | |
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| | | | | | | Re: DataCenter Don't forget... the government is a puppet to corporate funding.
How many laws were effectively written by corporate lawyers, funded by corporate lobbiests. | |
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| | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3
1 edit | You have issues.
You clearly have no idea how important the constitution is to the foundation to this country. But that's okay, please, don't let someone like me interrupt your facebooking, or twittering, or time spent on YouTube or playing angry birds.
Dude, people have died to protect the very thing you could give a shit less about.. while you try to trivial and marginalize things, you often forget something. There's a difference between believing in your country, your government and politics. Our country is something I believe in. Our government is able to be corrupt by man.. people can infiltrate government at many levels,... the one thing that keeps this country straight is the very thing you could care less about which is the constitution.
No matter what, in the end of the day.. corporations are corporations, and the government/law is government. You can't say they're the same.. not at all. Governments still are in the hands of the people and the people can change them. Corporations are not the government. People of these corps can, like anyone else, enter into politics to sway laws to their favor.. you think you sitting here telling me or anyone else that says you think you're on a much higher level than the rest of us. But one thing for sure, it's not a corporation that changes laws.. the government does. If a corporate player enters government, it's STILL government that changes the law, not the corporation. In short, our system is still based on our laws, and they're changed IN GOVERNMENT. Everything else you speak of is just spewed to make yourself appear smarter.. you're one of those people that believes things are they way you see them - I'm sorry, but I look at the situation for what it really is.
You're simply put ignorant and there is no point wasting more HDD space on you. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: DataCenter "The Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper" - President George W. Bush
It has not been "our" country for a long, long time. | |
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| | | | | | | fiberguyMy views are my own.Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3 | Re: DataCenter said by meeeeeeeeee:"The Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper" - President George W. Bush
It has not been "our" country for a long, long time.
So, one retarded moron makes his opinion known, that you believe that it's done and over with? wow...! NICE! You clearly have no concept of America do you. I'm glad you're just one vote and have no major influence.
Yes, the idiot said that, but while HE may believe he had the ability to tear the constitution out of our nation, the Supreme Court disagrees... see, while it's your opinion it's not "our" country for a long long time.. that view, just like Bush's, is worthless.
Please, study history and civics a bit more to understand how our nation works. | |
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| | | | | | |  Noah VailSon made my AvatarPremium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
kudos:2
 ·Bright House
| said by meeeeeeeeee:"The Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper" - President George W. Bush I wish the NSA a speedy and unsettling demise.
However, I'm not sure that quoting Urban Legends is the best way to make that happen.
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The Dark Tower's Skynet evolves from 4chan. | |
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| | | | | | | vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | said by meeeeeeeeee:"The Constitution is just a God damned piece of paper" - President George W. Bush As much as I disliked the Bush presidency, I never was able to find a source for that quote (though I've heard it before). Any citation? | |
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| | | andre2
join:2005-08-24
Brookline, MA | said by Telco:You realize with some basic information about you, I can buy your every detail from data-mining companies and there is nothing you can do about it. That to me is more of a threat than my government.
Changing the companies you deal with is a lot easier than moving to a different country. | |
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| |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7 | said by vpoko:Why not let the FBI put a camera in every room of your home? You've got nothing to hide! If they want to see inside every room of my house, they can pay the $19.95/month like all the other subscribers. I have privacy rights I can choose to monetize if I want damnit. | |
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| zed260Premium
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN Reviews:
·Charter
| said by 25139889:was on the History channel some time ago- not news at all.
And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? Id be more worried about Google selling your data to anyone wishing to pay for it- which they will!
i trust google more then the nsa | |
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| zed260Premium
join:2011-11-11
Cleveland, TN Reviews:
·Charter
| said by 25139889:was on the History channel some time ago- not news at all.
And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? Id be more worried about Google selling your data to anyone wishing to pay for it- which they will!
i trust google more then nsa hands down | |
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| slckusrPremium
join:2003-03-17
Maumee, OH
kudos:1 Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | said by 25139889:was on the History channel some time ago- not news at all.
And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? Id be more worried about Google selling your data to anyone wishing to pay for it- which they will!
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" - Ben Franklin.
I dont have anything to hide, but i can assure you I dont want them watching, then even the most mundane things can cause issues for you.
Information = Power without checks and balances on the information gatherers, whats to prevent them from using the information (power) to affect changes in our daily lives. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Big difference between Google and the NSA.
I know for a fact that Google is datamining every search I do.
Actually I can bet that without a doubt that Google is 1000x more efficient at gathering internet data than any government agency ever will be capable of.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | said by 25139889:And why be busy worrying about NSA if you have nothing to hide? Glad everyone feels like that. I'm glad my fellow Veterans threw their lives away for your freedom that you don't give a sh*t about.
I could say a few severely inappropriate words right now, but I won't. | |
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Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Who you gonna believe? (a) The head of NSA testifies before Congress. He can go to jail for lying about something. He actually knows what the NSA is doing.
(b) Somebody sees some cables going somewhere. Someone else notices a data center being built. A bunch of people extrapolate from this without really knowing anything about what NSA is really doing.
These two information sources conflict.
Who you gonna believe? | |
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| | | Re: Who you gonna believe? How shocking. A government official lies to cover up a spy operation! they know exactly what the NSA is doing. | |
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| |  Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:11 | Exactly...... THEY ARENT GOING TO ADMIT IT!! | |
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| vpokoPremium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA | I'm going to assume that neither side is giving us the whole story. There are probably 50 ways to lie without perjuring oneself and the intelligence community knows all of them. At the same time, stuff like this is fodder for conspiracy theorists who are, to say the least, not trustworthy sources for information. I just try to extrapolate from what I know of history plus little clues that the government gives us (like prosecuting Thomas Andrews Drake for whistleblowing). | |
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|  roc5955Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | Didn't "NSA" stand for "No Such Agency" a while back?
These guys lie in front of Congress ALL THE TIME and get away with it. Isn't that how the last resident of the White House get us involved in Iraq? I don't recall him and his lying cronies going to jail, do you? If he can lie in front of Congress, anyone with a little clout, and very little intelligence can.
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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| | Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Who you gonna believe? re Iraq lie: Actually that's not at all what happened. The "Bush lied" narrative is simply not upheld by actual history. But that's a completely different topic and please, let's not start debating that.
re Conspiracy theorists: exactly. It's impossible to disprove a conspiracy, because every time you bring up a fact (e.g. the head of NSA saying something to Congress), the response is, "Well that's just part of the conspiracy, they're lying and covering up." Really not a useful discussion because it doesn't take you anywhere.
re Whistleblowers: what did the guy who noticed the "secret room" say, actually? He said he saw a bunch of cables going somewhere. Did he actually expose anything like the NSA snooping on all emails and calls? No That was an extrapolation which seems to be taken as fact here. Which is completely uncalled for, because you don't know.
re Iran-Contra: did you forget that those people got caught and prosecuted for lying to Congress? | |
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| | | roc5955Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | Re: Who you gonna believe? Nobody served time regarding the Iran Contra affair. Look it up. I don't do other people's homework.
Denying that Bush and others lied to Congress, the UN and others to get us into the Iraq debacle will not make it so. You can believe the misinformation, and that's just how crooked governments work.
Regarding conspiracies, you can prove a conspiracy by looking at prior behavior, and extrapolating it to the current situation.
As far as whistle blowers, if you read the article in WIRED here, »www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0···eblower/ you will find this:
"Alexander’s comments fly in the face of people who actually helped create the agency’s eavesdropping and data mining infrastructure. Few people know that system as well as William Binney, who served as the technical director for the agency’s M Group, which stood for World Geopolitical Military Analysis and Reporting, the giant 6,000-person organization responsible for eavesdropping on most of the world.
"He was also the founder and co-director of the agency’s Signals Intelligence Automation Research Center, which helped automate that eavesdropping network. Binney decided to leave after a long career rather than be involved in the agency warrantless eavesdropping program, a program he said involves secret monitoring facilities in ten to twenty large telecom switches around the country, such as the one discovered in San Francisco’s AT&T installation a few years ago.
"Historically, the NSA’s initial response has always been to either deny or evade when confronted with issues involving eavesdropping on Americans. For decades the agency secretly hid from Congress the fact that it was copying, without a warrant, virtually every telegram traveling through the United States, a program known as Project Shamrock. Then it hid from Congress the fact that it was illegally targeting the phone calls of anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War, known as Project Minaret."
So I ask, who are you going to believe, the NSA's "official" spokesperson, or THE GUY WHO BUILT THE FREAKIN' SYSTEM?!?!?!
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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| | | | Reviews:
·Mediacom
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Who you gonna believe? said by roc5955:Nobody served time regarding the Iran Contra affair. Look it up. I don't do other people's homework.
You are correct and I was wrong, I was thinking about them being arrested. I went and checked Wikipedia and was reminded that in fact North and Poindexter were convicted and would have gone to jail, but their convictions were overturned on appeal because of, essentially, government prosecutorial stupidity.
Denying that Bush and others lied to Congress, the UN and others to get us into the Iraq debacle will not make it so. You can believe the misinformation, and that's just how crooked governments work.
For a really good and thoughtful analysis from the WashPost, see here.
Regarding conspiracies, you can prove a conspiracy by looking at prior behavior, and extrapolating it to the current situation.
As far as whistle blowers, if you read the article in WIRED here, »www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/0···eblower/ you will find this:
...(snip)....
So I ask, who are you going to believe, the NSA's "official" spokesperson, or THE GUY WHO BUILT THE FREAKIN' SYSTEM?!?!?!
My opinion is that he is the classic disgruntled techie/scientist type who is pissed that his stupid employer did not support his obviously brilliant concept and went a different direction. But mags like Wired etc. just eat up his rants because they reinforce the narrative they have already programmed in their heads. | |
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|  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | said by MyDogHsFleas:(a) The head of NSA testifies before Congress. He can go to jail for lying about something. He actually knows what the NSA is doing.
(b) Somebody sees some cables going somewhere. Someone else notices a data center being built. A bunch of people extrapolate from this without really knowing anything about what NSA is really doing. (c) The people who worked there, insiders, whistleblowers, contractors who help design/build the system, former employees who say what's going on.
Who you gonna believe?
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Certainly not (a), He can enhance the truth in front of congress in the name of "National Security"
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | roc5955Premium
join:2005-11-26
Rosendale, NY | Re: Who you gonna believe? said by Kearnstd:Certainly not (a), He can enhance the truth in front of congress in the name of "National Security"
Yeah, and how many times is "National Security" used to cover up lies that these guys spew?
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"Understanding is a three-edged sword." | |
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| fldiverPremium
join:1999-12-27
Jacksonville, FL | LOL, you are seriously going to ask that question? Given that the government "Contra" anyone?? has lied time and time again directly to Congress, you can bet I wouldn't believe a word coming out of this guy's mouth, nor should you. Congress has a proven track record of being gullible when it comes to these clandestine agencies testifying before them. | |
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| | nor do we have the equipment in the United States Wanna bet they have that kind of equipment outside the US? | |
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| | | Re: nor do we have the equipment in the United States Ding ding ding!
"We’re not authorized to do that, nor do we have the equipment in the United States to collect that kind of information."
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"My weakness is that I care too much" | |
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| | pkorx8
join:2003-06-19
San Francisco, CA Reviews:
·Comcast
 ·SONIC.NET
| Re: nor do we have the equipment in the United States said by TheHelpful1:Ding ding ding!
"We’re not authorized to do that, nor do we have the equipment in the United States to collect that kind of information."
Utah is not part of the US!!! | |
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KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
1 edit | All these facilities--- but they don't do anything! Honest! We're models of transparent Government, we spend billions on these systems and facilities... but they don't do anything! Honest! You can trust us. Whistleblowers are just ex-employees with sour grapes!
We would never spy on Americans, we just need all the traffic routed through our servers for... uhh.... internet usage statistics, ya that's it.... for statistical analysis and internet performance enhancements. Yes, it's true. We are just trying to help, you can trust us.... after all, we're from the Government. We're not a secret agency at all.
The two letters: B. S.
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-34Iyz7···embedded
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"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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b10010011Whats a Posting tag?
join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA | PGP Use it!  | |
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| elios
join:2005-11-15
Springfield, MO | Re: PGP Use it! NSA laughs as PGP
if the NSA wants at your data they can get at it | |
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| Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Eh.. They've had ways to crack that for years. | |
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| | Rojo
join:2009-04-14
New York, NY
kudos:1 | Re: PGP Use it! And you know that how? | |
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Reviews:
·voip.ms
·TekSavvy DSL
| Interesting wording I also think he's lying but I find it interesting that he repeatedly used the words "in the United States".
"We’re not authorized to do that, nor do we have the equipment in the United States to collect that kind of information."
If they didn't have the equipment or capability to intercept emails he could have just said, we don't have the equipment or capability. Period. But he chose to repeatedly state, "in the United States". It makes me wonder what kind of data centers they have in other countries. | |
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| | | Re: Interesting wording said by Rastan:I also think he's lying but I find it interesting that he repeatedly used the words "in the United States".
"We’re not authorized to do that, nor do we have the equipment in the United States to collect that kind of information."
If they didn't have the equipment or capability to intercept emails he could have just said, we don't have the equipment or capability. Period. But he chose to repeatedly state, "in the United States". It makes me wonder what kind of data centers they have in other countries.
that's where ECHELON becomes handy. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_S···y_Agency | |
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Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| Funniest thing.. I've read all day! In the same vein, the military denies it can destroy any city on earth within 30 minutes. Or perhaps the price of gasoline will change tomorrow to $ 1.00 per gallon. Or perhaps the King of Saudi Arabia will establish full recognition of Israel, exchange ambassadors, and the King will visit the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem and the Israeli Prime Minister will visit Mecca. Also the U.S. government will announce it is fully legalizing growing, sale, and possession of marijuana. any others I missed? | |
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| KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Re: Funniest thing.. Wouldn't it be nice if all that happened. | |
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| | | | Re: Funniest thing.. The FOUR parts of the NOVA documentary of the "SPY FACTORY" are very interesting!!!!!!! | |
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