dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
NSA Warrantlessly Tracking Who You Know, Where You Go
by Karl Bode 12:09PM Monday Sep 30 2013 Tipped by whamel See Profile
In the latest round of Snowden leaks, the NY Times notes the NSA has been using social networking websites and location data (from GPS hardware and cellular providers) to create a system that can graph an ocean of Americans' social connections, associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information. All without warrants, of course.

While knowledge of the collection of much of this data isn't new, the Times story treads some new ground on what's done with the data once collected. As with other NSA projects, analysts don't appear to need particularly elaborate justification in order to include U.S. citizens in this massive location and relationship tracking network:
quote:
In the 2011 memo explaining the shift, N.S.A. analysts were told that they could trace the contacts of Americans as long as they cited a foreign intelligence justification. That could include anything from ties to terrorism, weapons proliferation or international drug smuggling to spying on conversations of foreign politicians, business figures or activists.
There also doesn't appear to be much restriction on what kind of information is collected, either -- though location data appears to be the biggest prize:
quote:
The agency can augment the communications data with material from public, commercial and other sources, including bank codes, insurance information, Facebook profiles, passenger manifests, voter registration rolls and GPS location information, as well as property records and unspecified tax data, according to the documents. They do not indicate any restrictions on the use of such "enrichment" data...
From the Times explamnation this sounds exactly like the "Total Information Awareness" program that the government claimed it shut down back in 2002 after the public became aware and creeped out by it.

view:
topics flat nest 

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx

1 recommendation

Sounds like Google

Monster GOOGLE With teeth.
Morfein

join:2004-09-08
Avon, IN

Re: Sounds like Google

They have a doodle for that?

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

Oh and we are not tracked now......Please

You carry a smart phone....If so the trackers know where you are, know where you are going, what you spend your money on, what to drive for how long, what you eat, etc etc etc etc. All of this data is of value to somebody who will pay good money to have it. Take Netflix who uses data they pay for from outfits that track bit-torrent sites to make choices of what to purchase the right too, to add them to Netflix. It is like walking down the street buck naked you don't care if all the women are staring at you, but that one weird guy that winks at you is objectionable.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Knew

Everyone should have known this long ago. That is why people complain about being tagged or showing their data/GPS usage on Facebook, especially if the page is not private.
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..

Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

Smart phone users look pretty dumb right about now.

You are leaving a trail of digital breadcrumbs anyone can follow, right or wrong...
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

1 edit

Re: Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

Most already have at least 'assisted' GPS in them...

»www.directionsmag.com/articles/t···d/123293

Edit: there is also this - »www.fiercewireless.com/story/fcc···11-10-05
...which states that most non-GPS enabled phones still rely on traditional triangulation.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

Additionally phones have had GPS for awhile now, Even before they got smart and got Google Maps phones knew where you were via GPS due to FCC requirements for 911.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

intok

join:2012-03-15

Re: Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

Oh? So what are the odds theres a GPS tracker in the $10 Tracphone phone I use on prepaid cards?

I'm only 28 but unlike most in my age bracket I'm not wowed by "ooo shiny" and have the ability to see when all of this tech can go very wrong as it now has.

When GPS becomes mandatory in cars I'll be taking any and all of my new cars apart to remove it or switching to a classic.
--
You think theres no games for Linux? »desura.com »gameolith.com »humblebundle.com »playdeb.net »ubuntuvibes.com

Check out »youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT/videos »freespeech.org and »democracynow.org
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

Still 100% likely because E911 depends on it to locate the phone. However you stated prepaid cards, Right there means its hard to track at a personal level. Unless you have somehow registered that phone with your name with Tracphone than its just a blip on a screen in an ocean of many. Contract phones have hard data tied to them at the telco, Prepaid like Tracphone are likely just buy and go with no actual registration required.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: Now how cool is is to have a GPS enabled phone?

TracFone at one time required you to register the phones to a person. But you didn't have to give them YOUR information.
kaila

join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
Expand that a bit. Data that is being collected with identifiable and tracable information includes all internet usage, landline & mobile usage with any device, all credit/debit transactions, etc.
b10010011
Whats a Posting tag?

join:2004-09-07
Bellingham, WA
Reviews:
·Comcast Formerl..
I have been using a Verizon prepaid phone for a decade now. As far as I know I have never given Verizon my name or any personal information.

BTW: I may not be getting the best per minute rate or any data but I also only pay $15 a month for phone service.
--
Bellingham Scanner Kicks Ass! »bhamscanner.kicks-ass.org/
ackman

join:2000-10-04
Atlanta, GA

1 recommendation

Not convinced

I just don't see the usefulness of all this illegal data collection. I mean, the poster-child-case for this stuff would have been the Boston bombing, but they were nowhere close to intercepting that one. At some point, the massive volume of data becomes impossible to sort out, and its usefulness becomes moot.

firephoto
We the people
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

Re: Not convinced

It's industrial espionage. With all the countries with all the material wealth in the world why is it that mostly US based or owned companies control everything?

First rule of business or investing. Spend someone else's money. The government has a colossal spying network and they contract out it's use to private business. It's not hard to connect the dots.

--
Say no to astroturfing. go to their profile, start ignoring posts and ignoring what's not true.

intok

join:2012-03-15
None of this ha ever been about stopping terrorists or catching pedos. Terrorists and pedos are just about selling the spying to the people, to "protect" them...

It's all ways been about trying to use information to keep the citizenry in control. Just look back to how they used COINTELPRO to try and stop the equal rights and anti war protests, it's only gotten far more sophisticated and in depth with modern technology.
--
You think theres no games for Linux? »desura.com »gameolith.com »humblebundle.com »playdeb.net »ubuntuvibes.com

Check out »youtube.com/user/TheBigPictureRT/videos »freespeech.org and »democracynow.org
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

1 recommendation

Re: Not convinced

"Stopping Terrorism" and "For the Children" are the most simplistic ways to get anything passed in government because they know it will be political suicide for someone to say no.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

1 recommendation

Spying on citizens always required a story to justify.

George Orwell is smiling. I still remember the story on TV regarding the reason location tracking was absolutely necessary to protect little old ladies. It seems a little old lady was involved in an accident and wound up with her car hidden the bushes. Government officials claimed that she dialed 911 but responders could not find her and her cellphone did not have a tracking system.

The government mandated a location identifying device be installed in all cell phones to protect little old ladies. Privacy issues were brought up. Then came the big lie. The government assured citizens that the location identifying system would only be activated when 911 was dialed. That was true at the time but what the government concealed, was a back door, that allowed service providers to activate the location tracking system, without the subscribers knowledge. A cellular company employee let the cat out of the bag about that.

Now without explanation or justification location tracking is on all the time even if the handset is off. The only way to prevent location tracking is to remove the battery from the handset. Several years after location tracking was mandated a little old lady was run off I-595 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The accident dislodged the upper guard rail and her car fell about twenty feet into some bushes below the expressway. Her GPS enabled cell phone did not work because she was in an area without a signal. The only reason she survived was the road crew that was replacing the guard rail found her after about 4 days.

StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

Re: Spying on citizens always required a story to justify.

Well it's always to

• Protect us from terrorists.

• Protect the children.

The "protect little old ladies" is a new one for me.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

WiseOldBear
De gustibus non est disputandum
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Phoenix, AZ
Reviews:
·Cox HSI

1 recommendation

21st Century USA

Welcome to the 21st century in America. No independent thinking allowed. Don't try to hide, we know where you are. To one and all I raise a giant middle finger, and hope that all elected politicians and their sycophants are seen as the Nazis they really are.
--
My perception is REALITY
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

This isn't illegal, is it?

There's no expectation of privacy for any of this information. There are private companies that collect and sell this data, right? I'll save my outrage for violations of the Constitution and other laws. I think this particular method is legal and not violating my privacy.

Now, obviously we can question their intentions, and maybe consider a law banning the government from doing this. After we take care of the bigger problems!

cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27

We knew this...

..didn't we?

EZ Pass, smartphone, OnStar, Facebook, camera jpegs w/exif and metadata tags, car black boxes, employer gps tracking units, google, yahoo, hotmail (outlook), twitter, ... there is no anonymity except not having the above (or disposable cell phones and cash).

Heck every image that your browser loads is logged at the ISP. Every IP address. Every clickthrough. Ad tracking bugs, browsers, heck even AdBlock+ is allowing Google some slack for $$$.

Now, I don't know about the "dark net" and those places not on the obvious radar. Who's to say there isn't a few silent servers out there, not using tradition means...

--
Splat

NSALover

@c0wzftp.com

It's legal, deal with it.

Don't really know why anyone expects anything different. The Patriot act gave them the legal parameters to do this.
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
·Embarq Now Centu..
·Comcast
·CenturyLink

Re: It's legal, deal with it.

I resent the big lie. When the media received complaints from citizens about invasion of privacy when tracking was mandated the government presented citizens with the big lie. It was represented that tracking would not be activated unless the subscriber dialed 911. Now tracking is on at all times so government snoops can follow your every move and wireless carriers can sell your movements and preferences to the highest bidder.

Anyone engaged in social networking need not complain. Those engaging in social networking must have diminished intellectual capacity if they do not understand that social network operators own you if you use their services.

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
united state
In Germany during the 30's, the SS was legal. What is your point?

Twaddle

@charter.com

Patriot Act legality

Just because Congress passes some concocted law, it still has to pass Constitutional muster by SCOTUS. There are provisions in the Patriot Act (and others) that are illegal but SCOTUS refused to call Congress on them and rubber stamped their Constitutionality. The US of A allowed the bogeyman to win BIG TIME and now we have unbridled invasion of our privacy, by homegrown terrorists aka NSA CIA FBI et. al.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

Re: Patriot Act legality

said by Twaddle :

Just because Congress passes some concocted law, it still has to pass Constitutional muster by SCOTUS. There are provisions in the Patriot Act (and others) that are illegal but SCOTUS refused to call Congress on them and rubber stamped their Constitutionality. The US of A allowed the bogeyman to win BIG TIME and now we have unbridled invasion of our privacy, by homegrown terrorists aka NSA CIA FBI et. al.

Amerika is a police state, plain and simple. The Party dictates and monitors to ensure compliance. Elections have been a joke for many decades now as the "system" has been perverted so that only Party approved candidates can run for anything higher than the position of town dog catcher. The sheeple have been dumbed down and trained for compliance so that they quietly sip their KoolAid and accept it all. Free men (those that still have the capacity to think and reason) have two choices... Join the sheeple, or vote with your feet. It's a big world and there are many places in it a man can call "Home".
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence

intok

join:2012-03-15

Re: Patriot Act legality

Anarchy in the UK myaan...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn5GTIuxz_s
totalradio

join:2007-09-15
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·Windstream
The term "police state" is highly misused in this country. However, if you feel that the U.S. is a "police state", I invite you to go to...

North Korea
Cuba
Russia
China
Any country in the Middle East
Any country in Africa
Mexico
Italy
India

But I believe you get the point. But just in case you don't...

If you go to North Korea, Cuba, Russia, or China, and you decide to protest against the government, or pull the "freedom of speech" bull shit, trust me, the police will wisk you away and you'll disappear and possible be executed. That is a police state !

Remember the old Soviet Union ? People there had to have "travel papers" to travel from one point of the country to the other. There were checkpoints manned by soldiers demanding for "your papers please". If you didn't have the documents, once again, you were wisked away and possibly never heard from again. That is a police state

In the countries that I listed, there is no such thing as...

Freedom of the press
Freedom of speech
Freedom to bear arms

Most of these countries have "state-run media", which is usually the ONLY outlet for news and information in the country. You can't get NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox News, in most of these countries. For if you do, you are breaking the law and, once again, wisked away, never to be heard from again.

In the U.S., you can peacefully redress your grievances, perform marches (that happens in Washington D.C. quite often). You can even raise hell at your congressman at a town hall meeting, if you want to. Try and do that in North Korea, or a Middle Eastern country.

Hell, in Great Britain, guns are tightly controlled. Even the Olympic shooting team in the U.K. has to practice in Germany or France because of the gun control laws there.

In the U.S., if we didn't have freedom of the press, people like Karl Bode wouldn't be able to run this site because the government would shut it down. Whether or not you agree with Karl's comments, it really doesn't matter. The fact that this site (and many others like it) exists shows that freedom of speech & freedom of the press is alive and well. A wise man once said "you may not like what I say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it", and I'm a FIRM believer in it.

And if you REALLY think that the NSA's snooping is just being revealed, and trust me again, its been going on since the close of World War II, through the CIA, FBI and other members of the alphabet.

Where I'm concerned, I can say whatever I want, do whatever I want, think whatever I want, travel wherever I want, without the fear of ANYONE in the government asking me for "my papers please", or someone from the government showing up at my front door and asking me nosey questions about my "activities".

So am I giving up some freedom for some security ? No I'm not. For Benjamin Franklin said "Those who sacrifice some freedom for security, deserve neither.". In short, I can do the same things now, as I did in 1967, 1975, 1987, 1993, 2000, or 2013. Nothing has changed.

So when you describe the U.S., please refrain from using the term "police state". It is not EVEN CLOSE to being accurate, nor is it likely in the future, or at least in mine or your lifetime. Just remember, in a TRUE police state, sites like this, or your comments, would not be allowed.

We The People !
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

Re: Patriot Act legality

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D2SHNqkjbY


Humans are basically the same the world over.. even Quark knows that. It all depends on your propaganda perspective. Let history be your teacher, not years of spoon fed patriotism.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

said by totalradio:

So am I giving up some freedom for some security ? No I'm not. For Benjamin Franklin said "Those who sacrifice some freedom for security, deserve neither.". In short, I can do the same things now, as I did in 1967, 1975, 1987, 1993, 2000, or 2013. Nothing has changed.

If you truly believe this statement, then senility must have settled in. Can you travel to Canada or Mexico or dozens of other places with ONLY your driver's license or birth certificate? Can you buy an airline (International or domestic) ticket without absolutely proving who you are (the same for bus and train tickets). In case those remaining little cells are too stressed to come up with the answer, it's NO. YOU CANNOT travel freely outside or inside the U.S. without being tracked and documented by a bunch of goons and thugs in Washington. You can't carry on a private conversation over any electronic means either. The list of things you CANNOT do any longer grows daily. Just because you don't have the faculties to grasp these facts doesn't mean they don't exist.

Amerika has become a fascist police state where everything possible is tracked and analyzed and recorded for possible use when needed. Your rights and liberties are disappearing on a daily basis. Wake up and smell the coffee and stop living in your fantasy land. "Nothing has changed" LOL....toooo much.....
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
totalradio

join:2007-09-15
Reviews:
·Suddenlink
·Windstream

Re: Patriot Act legality

Again, if you think the U.S. is a "police state", go to North Korea and see if you can do the same things there, as you do here. Its amazing that so many people, many of them from true "police states" want to come here. Why ? In case your brain doesn't comprehend (which it doesn't) its called FREEDOM ! Freedom to say, think, and do whatever they want. Yes, I can do the same things that I did when I was a young man, as I do now. As for travel, before 9/11, I did travel to Canada without a passport, when free travel between the two countries existed. But we live in a post 9/11 world. You have to show ID to vote (in some states), buy liquor, apply for government benefits, and many other things. Is this giving up freedom for security ? No its not. I just have to prove who I say I am, as it should be. Being on this site discussing what out rights are, is solid proof that freedom of the press and freedom of speech is alive and well in the U.S.

Just because you're paranoid about the government, is not anyone's problem but your own. If you truly believe that the U.S. has become a police state and you don't like it, the government will allow you to emigrate elsewhere in the world, with no strings attached. To put it bluntly, if you don't like it here, Delta is ready when you are. They can have you in the country of your choice by this evening if you want.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

Re: Patriot Act legality

said by totalradio:

Just because you're paranoid about the government, is not anyone's problem but your own. If you truly believe that the U.S. has become a police state and you don't like it, the government will allow you to emigrate elsewhere in the world, with no strings attached.

Surely you are playing Devil's Advocate, because anyone THAT naive would be institutionalized to prevent them from harming themselves. No strings? Surely you are aware that former citizens who renounce their citizenship and take citizenship in another nation are still hounded by THIS country's government who "claim" that the individual owes the U.S. Income Tax on any income they earn for the rest of their lives simply because they WHERE at ONE TIME U.S. Citizens? Maybe you need to LEARN a little about the REALITY in this country instead of the neat little, ignorant flag waving fantasy land you live in. Unfortunately, many countries cannot or will not fight the Big Thugs in Washington for their new citizens and will simply throw them to the dogs and deport them because it is easier. Please stop with the ignorant grade school fairy tales. Adults are SUPPOSED to be aware and smart enough to learn the truth and be able to differentiate between fact and fairy tale.
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
Cuba actually is improving. It's just the media here doesn't wish to show that to you. Many highly well known schools in the US go to Cuba every here to study their government and their role in healthcare and medicine. If we as a country looked at others on how they do things; we'd be better off. Especially when you factor in a country that just actually started using medications for treatments- otherwise they used what we should be using; preventive care instead of actual health care.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Patriot Act legality

said by TBBroadband:

Cuba actually is improving. It's just the media here doesn't wish to show that to you. Many highly well known schools in the US go to Cuba every here to study their government and their role in healthcare and medicine. If we as a country looked at others on how they do things; we'd be better off. Especially when you factor in a country that just actually started using medications for treatments- otherwise they used what we should be using; preventive care instead of actual health care.

Well the whole embargo is dumb, The Embargo is harming the US and especially Florida where one of those high speed ferries could have people to Cuba from Miami pretty darn fast... I know that people with dual citizenship with Canada or the UK for example will leave their US passport at home and use their canadian one to book a flight from Canada to Cuba for a vacation.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
kerya666

join:2002-12-20
Valrico, FL
You must be stuck in the 80's.

A lot of your descriptions does not even apply to counties you listed.

Whisked away in USSR? Please... the only time I was asked for papers is when I traveled through GDR (not even technically USSR) to get to Berlin as a military personnel. After getting a visa and traveling as an individual in USSR I was never bothered.

And the other half applies to USA... papers please? Ever heard of TSA? Traveled lately?

So you have no fear of anyone asking questions about your activities? Say that to the lady that bought pressure cooker online and got raided by agents... many other similar cases.

You can say whatever you want? Try and say something against people of colors = hate crime. Or displeasure of the president wishing for his non-well being = detained.

Travel anywhere you want? Try Area 51 or other "closed" cities and territories.

You seem to be oblivious to any issues or limitations in our country while exaggerating anything from outside our borders.

USA is very much a police state, it may or may not be more restrictive in some aspects as other counties but overall it fits very well. Just look at our recent law enforcement agencies purchasing lists... MRAPs, everything "tacticool"; they look like paramilitary; all this while putting more restrictions on what non LEO people can buy/own.

To be frank I could care less what other countries policies are like I just know what I want my country to be like... and NSA is not part of it. If you cannot see that every decade we lose more and more rights while installing more and more laws restricting our "legal" actions... then you are simply not paying attention.

cork1958
Cork
Premium
join:2000-02-26

Duh!!

Anyone that doesn't think they are just about constantly being tracked in some way, shape or form now a days, shouldn't be allowed to own anything that connects to any outside source what so ever!

This is about as close to a non article, and has been for quite some time, as you can get, IMO.
--
The Firefox alternative.
»www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/
wispalord

join:2007-09-20
Farmington, MO

Simple Solution

same as watching a movie you don't like and trying to ban it simple solution is DONT WATCH IT instead of bitching, if you don't like the data mining don't use the tech, yes it really is this simple.

Anonymous_
Anonymous
Premium
join:2004-06-21
127.0.0.1
kudos:2

can't track me

♪ Can't track me ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ can't track me ♬.
--
Live Free or Die Hard...