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NY AG Will Sue Comcast If They Don't Pretend To Fight Child Porn
Hurry up and do absolutely nothing differently, or face the consequences....

New York AG Andrew Cuomo recently conducted a "sting" on broadband ISPs that consisted of discovering that Usenet is home to some horrible things (no, not TV show fan fiction). Under penalty of suit, the AG then got ISPs to agree to highly publicized deals that ISPs themselves admit don't have them doing anything differently. The deals seem aimed at providing good press for Cuomo, while allowing ISPs to justify their elimination of newsgroup services (AT&T now blocks the entire alt.binary hierarchy "for the children").

While Verizon, AT&T, AOL, Time Warner Cable and Sprint have all played along with Cuomo -- apparently Comcast has been ignoring the Attorney General's advances. In response, Cuomo is threatening legal action against Comcast, and has given the cable operator a five day ultimatum. While covering the story, the Associated Press (screen grab) made their FTP login information (and the letter) accessible for everyone to see (the password was quickly changed and the story edited). From a copy of the letter (pdf) from Cuomo to Comcast:

quote:
Comcast's unwillingness to sign the code of conduct and purge its system of child pornography puts Comcast at the back of the pack in the race to fight this scourge, and would likely be surprising to Comcast's millions of customers across the country. Time is of the essence here, as every day without these measures is another day that this illegal material is sluicing through the Internet.
Last week the National Cable & Telecommunications Association (NCTA), of which Comcast is the primary driver, announced a "historic" agreement with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC), and the National Association of Attorneys General (NAAG). But the letter claims this deal "fell well short" of Cuomo's code of conduct. That's ironic, considering neither agreement appears to actually accomplish anything.

Cuomo's push is worrisome because it nudges ISPs into the role of content nanny; a role that by law they weren't initially obligated to play (though some cases suggest otherwise). The existing legal framework already effectively targets child porn at the source, while ISPs already cooperate with law enforcement in taking such content offline when notified. Placing ISPs in the role of front line content cop increases the possibility of pressure for increased ISP filtering down the line (extremism, whistle-blowers, people who pick on Dick Cheney, etc.).
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INT0CABLE
BANNED
Premium Member
join:2007-10-22
Bronx, NY

INT0CABLE

Premium Member

whats so hard about pretending?

pretend comcrap thats all we ask P-R-E-T-E-N-D!

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: whats so hard about pretending?

said by INT0CABLE:

pretend comcrap thats all we ask P-R-E-T-E-N-D!
Cuomo should take a good look at Spitzers practices if he wants to be a credible advocate. Until then, he appears to be just as crooked!

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to INT0CABLE

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to INT0CABLE
said by INT0CABLE:

pretend comcrap thats all we ask P-R-E-T-E-N-D!
My guess is Comcast will do what others have done. Throw in the towel and just end any newsgroup service as part of being a Comcast internet customer. Bye Bye Giganews. It will be totally gone soon as part of the price of subscribing to Comcast internet.

Robert
Premium Member
join:2001-08-25
Miami, FL

Robert

Premium Member

Re: whats so hard about pretending?

said by FFH5:

said by INT0CABLE:

pretend comcrap thats all we ask P-R-E-T-E-N-D!
My guess is Comcast will do what others have done. Throw in the towel and just end any newsgroup service as part of being a Comcast internet customer. Bye Bye Giganews. It will be totally gone soon as part of the price of subscribing to Comcast internet.
I don't think so. I really do believe that Comcast will fight this through.
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 edit

jc10098 to INT0CABLE

Member

to INT0CABLE
Wait... Wait...Wait... Speak.... No .. Wait... and say it.

Won't someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!! (Simpsons Paranoia). End Rant.

S_engineer
Premium Member
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

S_engineer

Premium Member

Re: whats so hard about pretending?

said by jc10098:

Won't someone PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!! (Simpsons Paranoia). End Rant.
Isn't that what the problem is?
jc10098
join:2002-04-10

1 edit

jc10098

Member

Re: whats so hard about pretending?

HHAHAHAH.... Well I wasn't referring to that in a literal sense but OK. I was implying there's a lot of hysteria and Hoopla being passed onto the ISPS in the name of the children. All for a political band stand and nothing else. However, you're response works too I guess.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
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join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx
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TamaraB to S_engineer

Premium Member

to S_engineer
said by S_engineer:

Isn't that what the problem is?
What children do, see, where they go, when and if their diapers get changed etc.... is the responsibility of the parents not the STATE!

This rug-rat paranoia is beyond the pale, and rather disgusting.

Bob

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

In this day and age it's amazing...

that record companies can sue the pants off (well, that's a bad pun) of a 9-year old kid and 90 year old granny (now that's more like it) for downloading stuff like, Barney's Greatest Hits and "Greatest Songs from the hit Series: Murder She Wrote", yet, child porn is freely available. Something wrong with this world. I mean, seriously wrong. Why should these ISP be threatened?? Shouldn't this be an automatic thing? I mean, they can traffic shape and stuff like that, but this crap is too hard to stop?

Priorities, people, priorities.
SilverSurfer1
join:2007-08-19

2 recommendations

SilverSurfer1

Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by J E F F4:

that record companies can sue the pants off (well, that's a bad pun) of a 9-year old kid and 90 year old granny (now that's more like it) for downloading stuff like, Barney's Greatest Hits and "Greatest Songs from the hit Series: Murder She Wrote", yet, child porn is freely available. Something wrong with this world. I mean, seriously wrong. Why should these ISP be threatened?? Shouldn't this be an automatic thing? I mean, they can traffic shape and stuff like that, but this crap is too hard to stop?

Priorities, people, priorities.
Porn -kiddie or otherwise- will never be eliminated just like all the other less than ideal elements of society will never go away. It is the price for living in a free society vs a dictatorship surveillance society where every piece of mail and/or digital pakcet is opened and examined by default.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

1 recommendation

Uncle Paul

Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by SilverSurfer1:

said by J E F F4:

that record companies can sue the pants off (well, that's a bad pun) of a 9-year old kid and 90 year old granny (now that's more like it) for downloading stuff like, Barney's Greatest Hits and "Greatest Songs from the hit Series: Murder She Wrote", yet, child porn is freely available. Something wrong with this world. I mean, seriously wrong. Why should these ISP be threatened?? Shouldn't this be an automatic thing? I mean, they can traffic shape and stuff like that, but this crap is too hard to stop?

Priorities, people, priorities.
Porn -kiddie or otherwise- will never be eliminated just like all the other less than ideal elements of society will never go away. It is the price for living in a free society vs a dictatorship surveillance society where every piece of mail and/or digital pakcet is opened and examined by default.
And cue the posters that will foam on and on about how they feel we're already there...

'Oh we live in that society now dude! This George Bush guy is all up in your business man. I mean this last law they like just passed was pretty freakin gnarly'
SilverSurfer1
join:2007-08-19

SilverSurfer1

Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by Uncle Paul:

And cue the posters that will foam on and on about how they feel we're already there...

'Oh we live in that society now dude! This George Bush guy is all up in your business man. I mean this last law they like just passed was pretty freakin gnarly'
LMAO. Do you even know what you're talking about.

Uncle Paul
join:2003-02-04
USA

Uncle Paul

Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by SilverSurfer1:

said by Uncle Paul:

And cue the posters that will foam on and on about how they feel we're already there...

'Oh we live in that society now dude! This George Bush guy is all up in your business man. I mean this last law they like just passed was pretty freakin gnarly'
LMAO. Do you even know what you're talking about.
Well ya see it was a joke... Perhaps a poor one, but every time someone on these forums say anything that might reference the gov looking into their private 'matters' a rather lengthy rabid disccusion ensues over our current president, wire tapping, and those that feel it's a violation and those that feel it's warranted.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to J E F F4

MVM

to J E F F4
Record companies don't make money off of kiddie porn. They don't care about it because it's not their business to care about it. If they were in the business of selling child porn you can bet that they would be going after it as much as they go after music downloaders.

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4

Premium Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by cdru:

Record companies don't make money off of kiddie porn. They don't care about it because it's not their business to care about it. If they were in the business of selling child porn you can bet that they would be going after it as much as they go after music downloaders.
True, no one should expect the RIAA or movie studio's to do anything about child pornography, however, since the ISP's are involved in weeding out the criminals for downloading the latest Britney Spears single, they should also be able to block stuff clearly labelled as child porn. " 6 year old gives blow job to 17 year old boy " in the decription makes it pretty clear.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Now, I gotta finish downloading that Spears song...

sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium Member
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX

sivran

Premium Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

Usenet is unfiltered. If a provider carries a group, they get anything and everything that is posted to said group. No one at the server end moderates it. It's up to the clients to filter on their own.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to J E F F4

MVM

to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:

True, no one should expect the RIAA or movie studio's to do anything about child pornography, however, since the ISP's are involved in weeding out the criminals for downloading the latest Britney Spears single, they should also be able to block stuff clearly labelled as child porn. " 6 year old gives blow job to 17 year old boy " in the decription makes it pretty clear
How exactly do you block an attachment based off of a subject line of a post? How do you differentiate between a image of, from your example, a child performing oral sex from say a PDF of a news article with the same subject? Computers are still extremely dumb. It's basically impossible to deterministically decide what's obscene/illegal/etc and what's not.

I don't recall ever seeing a single ISP that has gone after one of their customers for downloading something illegal. Just like the RIAA isn't in the child porn biz, ISPs aren't in the music and movie biz. They just don't care. It's not their fight.

ISPs however are in the business of making money. And if something costs them extra money and they don't have a chance to recover it, then they aren't going to allow it. This is why many are looking at caps. It's not WHAT people are downloading. It's how MUCH they are downloading.

ISPs are also going to minimize their liability when it comes to over-reaching attorney generals. There is a real simple formula businesses usually follow when talking about liability. If the benefit of service (aka profit) is less than the cost of offering the service + potential legal costs of offering service, then they aren't going to offer it.

With the current NY AG fight to "stop" child porn by going after Usenet, the ISPs simply decided that the cost + legal was greater then the profit. Usenet doesn't make money. It only costs it. The .000001% of customers that might leave their ISP because they no longer provide Usenet access are simply absorbed as normal churn and won't be felt in the pocket book. In some cases, it actually could make the pocketbook grow thicker as the cost of providing the service is not minimal. Those that must have Usenet will just go to Giganew, Easynews, et al and continue downloading away.

If/when Mr. Cuomo goes after Usenet providers like Giganews or Easynews, expect much more of a fight. These companies do make money off the service so the legal portion of the above formula can be much higher before it tips the scales. They also "get it" and won't be so willing to implement or block something that obviously won't change anything.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad

Premium Member

Re: In this day and age it's amazing...

said by cdru:

How exactly do you block an attachment based off of a subject line of a post? How do you differentiate between a image of, from your example, a child performing oral sex from say a PDF of a news article with the same subject?
And going even further, let's say your computer spots a post with an image attachment called "Susie at the beach.jpg" Now is that a kid having fun at the beach (innocent image)? Child porn? An adult at the beach (also innocent image)? Or perhaps adult porn (legal, even if distasteful to some people).

The only way to know is for a human to open it up and even then it can be vague. What looks like an innocent child building a sand castle at the beach to us might be a turn on for someone into child porn. You might have to look at the context of the group, of the poster's previous images, etc. That's not something that computers can reasonably do yet.

All Andrew Cuomo is doing is grabbing some quick and easy good PR. "Hey! Look at me! I'm fighting child porn! Aren't I such a great guy?"

Airwolf7
Premium Member
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY

1 edit

Airwolf7

Premium Member

F*ck a bunch of kids!

Comcast needs to tell Andrew Cuomo to "F*ck a bunch of kids!".

Edit: Before I catch Hell over this read what I really think about child molesters.

»Re: Once again.... (Just kill them all.)
jarthur31
join:2006-04-14
Carlsbad, NM

jarthur31

Member

Re: F*ck a bunch of kids!

That's funny. Can anybody tell me why priests should be exempt from this? Anyone??

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups

Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups that they run themselves. But they do put their name on the service provided by Giganews, who runs the service for them.
»www.comcast.com/customer ··· ewsgroup

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Re: Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups

said by FFH5:

Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups that they run themselves.
That does not matter to this clown. TW didnt have there own either, they were outsourced to Highwinds Media which ironically, purged all known kiddie porn groups from there systems early LAST YEAR.

iamjesuschrist
@65.49.14.x

iamjesuschrist

Anon

Re: Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups

said by swintec:

said by FFH5:

Comcast doesn't actually have any newsgroups that they run themselves.
That does not matter to this clown. TW didnt have there own either, they were outsourced to Highwinds Media which ironically, purged all known kiddie porn groups from there systems early LAST YEAR.
newsgroups sucks

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to FFH5

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Then it's easy for Comcast to say that they have eliminated access to all of usenet on their servers, right?

I remember when Comcast went from providing their own newsgroup access to a 1GB/month Giganews account. Ah memories.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords to FFH5

MVM

to FFH5
A little birdie told me weeks ago that Giganews told Cuomo to go fsck himself.

Now that I see this news, I know that this is about getting Comcast to put the pressure on Giganews. I predict that it won't work -- big time!
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

qworster

Member

This is about POWER!

"Little Andy" Cuomo probably gets a 'stiffie' every night thinking about how a little wimp like him can cause big corporations like Time Warner and AT&T to bend over.
He doesn't need kiddie porn to 'get off'...instead he gets off on power!

Will someone please find this wimp a Dominatrix?

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru

MVM

Re: This is about POWER!

We could, but all the dominatrix website ad pictures on Usenet have been blocked.

FLengineer
CCNA, CEH, MCSA
Premium Member
join:2007-06-26
Deltona, FL

FLengineer to qworster

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to qworster
He's not making them bend over.

The ISPs need a reason to stop providing a high bandwidth service that isn't used very often but cost them alot of money.

Cuomo needs a cause to get his name in the press.

It's a win-win they are using each other. Comcast is the only service that doesn't give a crap about what Cuomo needs and that pisses him off.

fatness
subtle

join:2000-11-17
fishing

fatness

Re: This is about POWER!

said by FLengineer:

The ISPs need a reason to stop providing a high bandwidth service that isn't used very often but cost them alot of money.

Cuomo needs a cause to get his name in the press.

It's a win-win they are using each other.
That's exactly what's going on. It has nothing to do with stopping child pornography and pornographers.

JSY
Premium Member
join:2000-04-05
Elmhurst, NY

JSY

Premium Member

What an idiot.

That excerpt from the letter from the AG to Comcast reads like a fictional novel. What a tool. All we need is for him to make his mark with this useless waste of taxpayer money and then get caught and convicted of tax evasion or something like his predecessor got caught with. LOL!

It's weird - part of me applauds Comcast for sticking to their guns. The other part thinks they should just go with the flow and do nothing differently as everyone has followed. The problem, though, is that you leave the door just a little open for the AG to dictate what you can do and then you open a can of worms in the future.

ThirdShifter
Premium Member
join:2002-03-16
Wethersfield, CT

1 recommendation

ThirdShifter

Premium Member

Block usenet.. and something else will fill the vacuum.

Why is it hard to make people understand that.. eliminate one thing youre just gonna have something else replace it.

•••••

mazhurg
Premium Member
join:2004-05-02
Brighton, ON

mazhurg

Premium Member

The more things change ...

What is there to be afraid of?

It's better for all of us; only child sickos and pirates are affected.

We'll never get them to censure other stuff... Honest!

Kilroy
MVM
join:2002-11-21
Saint Paul, MN

Kilroy

MVM

Re: The more things change ...

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

stick
@verizon.net

stick

Anon

Topic

Cuomo should stop blowing smoke up his own a$$ from all this media coverage and start putting more effort into preventing pedophiles from abducting/molesting children. I think every parent would agree they would rather see something done which would prevent thier kids from being the target of pedophiles instead of some stupid initiative to stop the spread of child porn. Get your priorities straight and stop being a media wh0re.

JuanDoe
@comcast.net

JuanDoe

Anon

Re: Topic

Exactly!

Attempting to stop pedophiles by removing kiddie porn from usenet will be as effective as trying to stop convenience store robberies by removing surveillance camera crime videos from youtube.

The crime is the act of abusing a little kid.
The criminal is the pedophile.
The photo/video is just evidence. Are they going to throw me in jail for watching NCIS or Criminal Minds?

You'd think the NY AG would realize that.
tkdslr
join:2004-04-24
Pompano Beach, FL

tkdslr

Member

Thanks.. The image letter is exactly what I needed.

To file a Bar association complaint against Cuomo.

For Extortion..

The Comcast is clearly covered by Common carrier protection.
It time to fight this idiot in court, and remove his license to practice law.

The only thing Comcast is legally obligated to do.
Is to remove any cached content on a per request basis.

Removing binaries groups on a wholesale basis is something right out of 1984.

••••••••••••

mmainprize
join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI

mmainprize

Member

So who's fault is it

So if this law come to pass

I can just hear it now. Some jerk gets his PC hauled in and then find child pron on it. He says well it is the ISP's fault because they did not block it.

Is this where we are going here?
qworster
join:2001-11-25
Bryn Mawr, PA

3 edits

1 recommendation

qworster

Member

This reminds me of the Communist purge of the '50s...

Comcast's unwillingness to sign the code of conduct and purge its system of child pornography puts Comcast at the back of the pack in the race to fight this scourge, and would likely be surprising to Comcast's millions of customers across the country. Time is of the essence here, as every day without these measures is another day that this illegal material is sluicing through the Internet.

I can almost picture Senator Joseph McCarthy saying this phrase back in the blacklist era. Simply replace "child pornography" with 'Communism' and "illegal" with 'Communist'...

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Glaice

Premium Member

Source?

Go after the source of the filth, not the medium it is going over!

Idiot politicians.

Linkedit5
join:2004-10-10
Brooklyn, NY

Linkedit5

Member

where the hell is kid porn anyway???

i thought that most of these porn sites were like private file sharing websites?

how much is really on usenet anyway?

La Luna
Fly With The Angels My Beloved Son Chris
Premium Member
join:2001-07-12
New Port Richey, FL

La Luna

Premium Member

And once again.....

.....child porn is a PEOPLE problem, not an "Internet" problem.

Wake up Andrew.

StudioTech
Off The Air
join:2001-10-10
Edison, NJ

StudioTech

Member

From AG to Governor?

Following in the footsteps of Spitzer. Make a name for yourself harassing businesses and you can coast your way to the NY Governorship.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad

Premium Member

Re: From AG to Governor?

Except that Spitzer did some real good as AG and went after people who were really breaking the law. He didn't just do blatant PR stunts like Cuomo is doing. I honestly thought Spitzer would make a good governor (as did my boss who is usually a staunch Republican). We were both surprised at the Spitzer Incident.

odreian615
join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

odreian615

Member

I bet he has skeletons in his closet

Some sex related thing about him will pop up

••••

Dogfather
Premium Member
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA

Dogfather

Premium Member

Comcast pretends to give a crap about customers

They're experts at pretending. It should be a cinch.

TechyDad
Premium Member
join:2001-07-13
USA

TechyDad

Premium Member

Cuomo's Just Trying For Easy PR

Cuomo's just going for some quick and easy PR for himself. I think this statement says it all:
Time is of the essence here, as every day without these measures is another day that this illegal material is sluicing through the Internet.
So Comcast keeping their news feeds keeps child porn on the Internet? Child Pornographers the world over will toss their hands up and give up once Comcast drops their news feeds? Right. Because Child Pornographers would never think to use an alternative news feed service. (Oh bother. Now Andrew Cuomo is going to have to arrest me for aiding and abetting Child Pornographers. )

Edge1
But these go to 11.
Premium Member
join:2006-03-01
USA

Edge1

Premium Member

Re: Cuomo's Just Trying For Easy PR

Exactly my thoughts, Jason. Political grandstanding at its finest.
three6ohchri
join:2004-04-14
Portland, OR

three6ohchri

Member

Let me see if I get this right...

...It's a voluntary "code of conduct" to block newsgroups, but if Comcast doesn't sign it "voluntarily" then Cuomo will take legal actions against Comcast? Can he take the work "voluntary" out of there, like right now?

Could it be possible that Comcast is a little gun-shy about blocking anything else on their network? After all, the FCC is likely to levy a fine against them already for their traffic shaping of packets suspected of being part of a torrent download. I can see the headlines now... "Comcast under investigation by FCC for blocking customer's access to free service." There will be public hearings and the whole 9 yards.
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