 
Vathral
Premium
join:2002-08-26
New York, NY
clubs: | NO! Curse you! Don't slow them down :'(
Hope they can keep fixing things fast enough so they don't have to freeze the deployment of fiber. | |
|
 | 
Smith6612
Premium
join:2008-02-01
united state | Re: NO! It probably won't slow them down, but it will at least if the terms allow for is to let Verizon build out their Infrastructure while they check over their installs. | |
|
| 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Dont worry. The economy will slow them down soon enough. | |
|
mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY | Cheap If they would stop being so goddamn cheap and not use some two-bit laborer with minimal training to do the installs, maybe the compliance rate would be much higher.
Cheap bastards! | |
|
| 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN | Re: Cheap I don't know about installs in NY, but here in Indiana when I was installed all the installs were done by VZ employees, not two-bit laborers. | |
|
| | 
Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
Sweden
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Optimum Online
1 edit | Re: Cheap said by cdru  :I don't know about installs in NY, but here in Indiana when I was installed all the installs were done by VZ employees, not two-bit laborers. Yep... Here in Northern New Jersey, everything was done by a knowledgeable VZ employee who knew what he was doing... And everything is grounded correctly as far as I can see.
Getting FIOS was the best decision I ever made in terms of a service in my life.... It just works... I have yet to have any serious problems with it. I can only recall one 10 minute outage at 1 AM for maintenance when they rolled out the new TV GUI. Compared to cable TV / Internet (which was a nightmare), FIOS is simply AWESOME! I used to be down at least 5-10% of the time on cable, and the VOD rarely worked... Despite the cable company being out here numerous times!
-Tzale
--
Neoconservatives (G.W.B) are not true conservatives. A conservative believes in defending the Constitution. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. - RON PAUL 2008 | |
|
| 
Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | All installs are done by employees of Verizon. No contractors and all union. | |
|
| myokitis
join:2004-06-19
Alexandria, VA | You have NFC what you're talking about. VZ uses full-time techs for their install work. | |
|
| | 
bdh
join:2007-08-21
Little Elm, TX
·Suddenlink
| Re: Cheap said by myokitis :You have NFC what you're talking about. VZ uses full-time techs for their install work. maybe where you live, but not in texas. So I guess you have NFC either. | |
|
| |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
1 edit | What about the CableCos and SatCos? Has the NY PSC checked cable companies and satellite installers as well? I won't argue that the installs should have been done correctly and up to code to begin with. I just seem to get a whiff of something fishy every time this issue surfaces.
I know installs around here by both satellite and cable companies are pretty shoddy when it comes to grounding issues. Neither my parents nor my house had the 4' cable grouding rods bonded to the main service grounding rod. And when I had Dish I had to nerve to inconvenience the sat installer to ground my roof mounted dish. | |
|
| bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here | Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? Yea... pretty much. For all the horrible ground work done in those photos I've see much the same from MSO's and dish. | |
|
| |
| |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? said by jaa :Most installs tie to an existing ground - they don't put in grounding rods. It would be nice to have all companies checked for code compliance. It doesn't matter if they are tying into an existing ground rod. If they touch it, it no longer is grandfathered in under an old code that may have allowed it.
I'm wondering what they ground - isn't fios glass? It's been brought up many times in past thread. The ONT is fed via glass fiber, but there is still copper wiring on the inside of the house. The grounding is there just as much for the internal wiring as a safety ground as what it would be had the fiber been copper. | |
|
| | | 
jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? I'm curious what the code is for grounding/bonding. If I have my house wired with ethernet, and connect a switch to that wiring, does it have to be grounded/bonded, other than perhaps a 3-prong outlet?
I just don't understand the differnce between that and an ONT. Anyone have a reference to the code violation the NY PSC is quoting?
These are Verizon union installers, wouldn't they know?
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. | |
|
| | | |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? said by jaa :I'm curious what the code is for grounding/bonding. If I have my house wired with ethernet, and connect a switch to that wiring, does it have to be grounded/bonded, other than perhaps a 3-prong outlet? No. Network cabling is not required to be grounded.
Grounding is done to provide a safe path for excess power to travel. With telephone and cable lines, there is usually opportunities for the connection outside the house to come in contact with a power line or a nearby lightning strike. Also, TVs and VCRs and bleed voltage and current from the main power across the coax. Properly grounded, if the bleeding became excessive then a breaker could trip.
With the ONT, you don't have to worry much about the outside cabling, but there is still a chance for internal wiring to cause a problem. This is why the ONT needs grounded.
Also, "bonding" is the term used when you are talking about connecting multiple grounding points, typically a copper or copper-clad rod driven into the ground. NEC requires that all grounding rods be tied together or bonded by a 6ga copper wire or larger. This allows all grounding rods to be at the same potential. Without being bonded, each grounding rod could have a different potential which is dangerous.
I just don't understand the differnce between that and an ONT. Anyone have a reference to the code violation the NY PSC is quoting? I can't quote the exact passage, but my guess is that the NEC requires cable, telephone, and power lines to be grounded at the entrance of the premises.
These are Verizon union installers, wouldn't they know? They should. But being union doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't sloppy, weren't trained properly, or just have bad habits. | |
|
| | | | |
jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
·Optimum Online
·Vonage
| Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? said by cdru :I can't quote the exact passage, but my guess is that the NEC requires cable, telephone, and power lines to be grounded at the entrance of the premises. That is my guess too - it is based on copper cables coming into the premises, and has not been updated to reflect non-conducting cables (such as fiber) and therefore the whole thing is a joke.
If someone wires you house for sound with copper wires, does NEC require the amplifier be grounded? So long as no copper wires go outside the premises, I see no reason to require grounding to a rod for an ONT.
The only possible rational explanation is there is a chance that currently, or in the future, copper phone or TV cable will be run outside the house, and hence the grounding requirement.
--
NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. | |
|
| | | | | |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? NEC 800.100 is the section that covers grounding of metallic sheathed communications cables. You can view a free copy of the NEC here. Follow the link towards the bottom that says view the 2008 version. Free registration required.
Coax cabling would be covered under this section. As an overwhelming majority of ONTs are installed on the exterior of the house, there would be an entry point for the coax.
I can't argue for or against if something should be grounded. I'm going to defer that to people that know much more about that type of thing then I. However, regardless of if it should be, the point is that it currently is required by NEC. The NEC gets updated every couple of years (it was just updated this year) and fiber connections aren't new. | |
|
| | | | | | |
jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13 | Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? Ok, so if they put the ONT inside the house no need for a ground - no metallic sheathed communications cables. | |
|
| | | | | | | |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN | Re: What about the CableCos and SatCos? Possibly, but I don't know. And interior ONT installs are definitely the exception to the rule. | |
|
| | NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
 ·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by jaa :Most installs tie to an existing ground - they don't put in grounding rods. It would be nice to have all companies checked for code compliance. I'm wondering what they ground - isn't fios glass? On this premises, cable was installed probably 20 years ago; then cancelled for satellite.
The cable drop was only tied to a flimsy ground rod. I should pull it out to see if it was really deep enough. No more than 1/2 in. diameter.
The satellite lead was not grounded at all; and the phone link was improperly connected to the station protector, per an SBC tech troubleshooting a line problem.
I took care of the phone connection; and, when the landlady upgraded the satellite service, I made sure the installer bonded the ground to the electric service panel.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
|
| 
battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000
| The guy that installed my Direct Tv in January told me that they had become real anal about grounding in the last year. He said his company that he worked for would charge them for improper grounds.
I was at a hotel doing some work a few weeks ago and a Comcast tech was there doing some work as well. Some how we got on the subject of grounding and he said they had recently become real strict on grounding as well. | |
|
|
| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: I smell Cable Co input Yea,.. I suppose it's all about the cable company. (Didn't take long)
So, when cable companies get popped for improper grounds, it's "Off with their heads.. how dare they".. and here we are with Verizon and their lovely fiber and "please don't slow them down" and "cable must be behind it"...
Even if cable is stirring it up, which I doubt, rules are rules. They need to apply to both companies equally. If they are not grounding, instead of firing the employees, tell them to read up on ATT Broadband now Comcast and the City of St. Paul, MN.
I just love how people give a pass for pure selfish greed. | |
|
| | |
| | | RadioDoc
58ef2c0
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| Re: I smell Cable Co input Yeah, I wouldn't be using cable TV as the example of proper grounding. When cable was installed at one of my rental units the installer grounded the aerial drop to...the gas pipe. 
--
Toolmaster of La Grange. | |
|
rlocone
Honor Our Heros, Our Armed Forces
Premium
join:2002-04-10
Kokomo, IN
|  Installation ?
Anyone know if you can tell if the installation is installed correctly (Ground/bonded) before the tech leaves? Knowing this stuff in advance will avoid problems later. My Mom is interested in getting FiOS once it comes into B'KLYN.
--
*** Never Forget 9/11 *** | |
|
Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA | Re: NY PSC Wants FiOS Installation Freeze Send all those FiOS installers to PA! | |
|
| 
brooklynman4
join:2004-09-07
Brooklyn, NY
1 edit | Re: NY PSC Wants FiOS Installation Freeze If it was done by verizon employees then where is the grounding? | |
|
u3912974
join:2007-07-31
San Francisco, CA | well good good that they practice in NY before they come to SF to do it right | |
|
| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: well good said by u3912974 :good that they practice in NY before they come to SF to do it right Um.. where exactly in SF is Verizon with plant? .. or when does Verizon plan on purchasing AT&T/SBC ? | |
|
| | 
jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA | does Verizon plan on purchasing AT&T/SBC ? Can we hope. AMybe we'll get something besides poor DSL | |
|
jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
·EarthLink
| Grounded Dish and PhoneDamn I'm in trouble Thanks to this forum for enlightening me on grounding issues. I've got DirectTV and I see no grounding whatsover , Heck I don't see grounding on my LPV either Guess I better do some research on what's needed seings how Dish has been here 2 years and the phone for "years" | |
|
Maya
@columbia.edu
 from:
StreetSpirit
| Give me a break This seems like Verizon competitors are trying to screw with the system to keep FiOS from coming in and taking their business. These Fios cables don't even conduct electricity; who gives a hoot if they're grounded? My kids are in about as much danger getting electrocuted by a fiberoptic cable as they are getting electrocuted by a string holding two cups together | |
|
IM1811
join:2001-08-20
Haverstraw, NY
·Verizon FIOS
1 edit | The PSC and it political agenda For a total of nine days beginning on Monday, July 17, 2006, approximately 174,000 people in Queens went without power. I can't imagine how bad that scene must have been. The PSC draft report found that the extensive Queens power outages resulted from Con Edison’s inept and grossly negligent performance and its failure to reliably operate, maintain, and manage its system, or to respond effectively to an escalating emergency. For the honor of being one of those 174,000 poor Queens residents, the PSC has a settlement, almost 2 years later. It includes a bill credit of $100 to each residential customer and issue a payment of $100 to each of the 2,850 residential claimants to whom Con Ed paid a claim for spoilage in connection with the July 2006 outage, amid language forbidding Con Ed from raising rates to pay the settlement.
Doesn't this most recent PSC outcry, including the 'Freeze on Installs' seem just a tad bit overboard, just a little too shrill? It sounds more like someones got to the PSC and I know of one family who most certainly is an interested party:
In the last decade, Cablevision and Cablevision PAC have given at least $343,929 to New York State committees and politicians. The Dolans personally have given $248,200 in state races. Anyone else thinking my way??
--
»www.bartgordon.net | |
|
StreetSpirit
Premium
join:2002-08-13
Roslyn, NY | Your cable dollars at work. NO!!
I smell a payoff. | |
|
patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | cable bribed the PSC Time Warner must have sent some "companions" from "Emperors Club VIP" to visit the PSC. I've never heard the PSC take any action against cable co's grounding problems. | |
|
maya
@columbia.edu
| Absurd Good job New York. Way to help the cable companies screw with Verizon. If you can't beat the competition, then make stuff up about them. FiOS cables are made of glass, which conducts electricity about as well as the string holding the two cups together that my children use as a phone. Maybe I should ask them to ground their string phone... | |
|
VishuzNinja
Legalize Ganja
join:2007-04-21
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
| Hmm.. I do hope this forces Verizon to spend more money on training their employees more in depth perhaps to avoid this kind of thing? Or to perhaps even advance their already advanced infrastructure plans; network.
Lets see if "big government" can force a corporation like Verizon to do that - I think it will, but consider the current and future economic atmosphere.
- 2 cents
--
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." -Friedrich Nietzsche | |
|
|
Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Hmm.. Do you have any idea how much Verizon spends now on training? How long do they go to school to learn FIOS installation and trouble shooting? | |
|
Zen1
@optonline.net
| about grounding i'll bet that fiber cable has a steel guide wire in it to prevent it from being stretched in high winds, if it does, that provides an electrical path from the pole to the house, so it should be grounded, even if it don't have a wire, the fiber cable can get wet, and provide a path for lightning to travel to the house.. lightning is millions of volts of electricity, it has no problem traveling wet surfaces.. | |
|
crossedwire
@verizon.net
| Technology changes: Rules don't It's amazing how an existing code can be a means to stop a company in it's tracks. According to code any electrical source comming into a building must be properly ground bonded to prevent electrical shock hazard, and surge protection. However Fios already adheres to this.
A note on fiber-optic. All fiber optic cables have a small amount of conductive material in the reflective surface wrapped around the fiber core. This is not, however, an issue because the connectors are plastic/rubber and an insulator, and the foil has a very low conductivity. The fiber that verizon uses(at least in SE PA) has a steal carrier wire inside the jacket to allow for open air suspended runs. This would be a potential source for rogue voltage....
However...
The ONT's power supply already bonds the entire system to ground. The coax sheild and 2-wire voice lines are grounded through the power supply and cable.Even when you lose power and the system runs on battery the system is still grounded(well unless you physically pull the plug)
I just think that compitition has brought out the nit-pick police. | |
|
|
Zen1
@optonline.net
| Re: Technology changes: Rules don't if you mean the grounded plug on the power supply is going to withstand a lightning bolt of 1 Gigavolts(1000 million volts) at 120,000 amps, »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning it won't.. it'll just burn up and it'll be like it's not there.. | |
|
mmoon
join:2005-12-03
Marietta, GA
| Grounding rules Grounding in a home is designed to send to ground any voltage from the house wiring accidentally touching something you could touch. As far as all things being bonded together-same deal. Keeps someone from hurting their self accidentally. Voltage levels to ground-50 volts or more has to have one wire at ground potential(as the home neutral is) in the circuit. Lightning is another story. You will not stop a direct strike without enough grounding to carry the average of 2600 amps or more to ground before it gets to you. Most widely available devices only carry away average disturbances on the power line (switching transients, induced voltages from near misses of lightning, etc.). Bonded together? try grabbing a hot ceiling track (short from 120v wiring) and ground without protection. That will get you to understand grounding quick! | |
|
|
|
|
NY PSC Wants FiOS Installation Freeze
