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NebuAd CEO Defends Snooping Tech
While Congress prepares to try and make such systems opt-in

Bob Dykes, the CEO of behavioral advertising firm NebuAD (who I interviewed in February), spent yesterday before Congress, defending his company's business model of buying your browsing records from ISPs in order to deliver more personalized advertising (want a Perez Hilton lunchbox?). The Los Angeles Times notes that Dykes was most criticized for forcing consumers to opt-out of the technology:

quote:
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"That's basically saying silence is consent and as a result you can do whatever you want with their information," Markey said. "I don't think, unless you've got clear affirmative permission, that you should be able to take this incredible leap into the breaching of the privacy of Americans."
I remain somewhat fascinated that nobody in Congress or the media bothers to mention that NebuAD's current opt-out system doesn't actually opt you out of browsing tracking, just tailored ad delivery. Nor does anybody seem aware that ISPs have been selling your clickstream data to websites like Compete for years, without any opt-out option whatsoever.

The Times also notes that Rep. Edward J. Markey (D-Mass.), chairman of the House telecommunications Internet subcommittee, confirmed he's working on a law that would require all such systems be opt-in. It's hard to think such a push would survive the onslaught of online advertising lobbyists, but it's refreshing to see Congress trying to put the power back into the hands of consumers for a change.
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cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

cornelius785

Member

I wonder...

if there is an easy circumvention to remove the ADs. surely it can't be easy as blocking a couple of IP address... or could it? i suppose the IP addresses would reside somewhere in the ISPs block(s).
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: I wonder...

I assume something like Adblock Plus would work fine for removing the ads, but the concern is that your data would still be tracked.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: I wonder...

You will be tracked... wether its by an ISP or by the actual server you're connected to. The main difference is that your overall site tracking can be tracked by ISP, and sold, without your knowledge.

knightmb
Everybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN

knightmb to EPS4

Member

to EPS4
said by EPS4:

I assume something like Adblock Plus would work fine for removing the ads, but the concern is that your data would still be tracked.
I'm certain it would, I'll plug my sig again, at least if you can't stop them, clog them up with garbage.

BabyBear
Keep wise ...with Nite-Owl
join:2007-01-11

BabyBear

Member

Re: I wonder...

said by knightmb:

I'm certain it would, I'll plug my sig again, at least if you can't stop them, clog them up with garbage.
No thanks for me at least. Not sure where the website addresses come from in the sig of yours, but a lot are parked and 'wacky' addresses. Just the kind (of sites)that host malware I would hope that malware hosting sites wouldn't come up, but not gonna risk it along with extra cookie pollution just to piss off NebuAd.

TamaraB
Question The Current Paradigm
Premium Member
join:2000-11-08
Da Bronx

TamaraB to knightmb

Premium Member

to knightmb
Another tracking pollution solution.

TrackMeNot

Bob

Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02

Karl Bode to cornelius785

News Guy

to cornelius785
You can just use AdBlock to block ads entirely, but that still doesn't address the concerns of consumers who don't want their individual browsing tracked and sold, even under the promise of anonymity.

CPUYODA
join:2003-01-25
Johnson City, TN

CPUYODA

Member

Jerry Van Dyke lookalike

As much crap as the modern ISP TOS has,....I think they should come clean on how much info exactly they sell.

SEC and FCC should be helping us figure out.

Glaice
Brutal Video Vault
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY

Glaice

Premium Member

Re: Jerry Van Dyke lookalike

Why should the FCC even bother when the entire fiasco with Kevin favoring the telcos and allowing this civil immunity BS to go through?

They are spineless and need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

swhx7

Premium Member

Re: Jerry Van Dyke lookalike

How about a Hercules to divert the Potomac through Capitol Hill.

anony101
@comcast.net

anony101

Anon

Altering other people's intellectual property

No one has mentioned the reaction of web masters (companies) whose web pages are going to be modified in order to display those ads. How would for example google react to their web pages being modified?
EPS4
join:2008-02-13
Hingham, MA

EPS4

Member

Re: Altering other people's intellectual property

I assumed NeduAD would be teaming up with ad networks?

I mean, if they're just throwing out other peoples ads for their own (or putting ads where they weren't previously), wouldn't that be a fairly obvious fatal flaw?
voipdabbler
join:2006-04-27
Kalispell, MT

voipdabbler to anony101

Member

to anony101

That's Nebu's Achilles Heel

The point you've raised is Nebu's Achilles Heel and I suspect that deep pockets, the likes of Google, etc., will sue if this system is widely adopted. (It will be interesting to see if Nebu and ISP supporters try to interject language in to Markey's bill that would somehow address copyright issues raised by how Nebu functions.). Let's face it, in the early 90's when the Internet's GUI interface made the system friendlier to average users intimidated by entering commands at a prompt (yes, I'm old enough to have had access to the Internet when there was no GUI WWW but simply Archie, Gopher, and good old Pine Mail) the courts began holding that linking within frames was a copyright violation. Most of those early cases were brought by publishers concerned about the loss of ad revenue when portions of their web pages were brought in to another site's frame and the advertising from the original site wasn't visible.

en102
Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA

en102

Member

Re: That's Nebu's Achilles Heel

I remeber using Pine and Gopher on a VAX in college... back then, before IM and blogs, there was ISCA BBS as well.

zalternate
join:2007-02-22
freedom land

zalternate

Member

Sue your ISP

Sue your ISP if they try this stuff.

Hacking webpages is a court punishable offense.
Invasion of privacy. Also a court punishable offense.
"Being silent is consent". Using a similar logic,,,If someone can't speak and they don't say "No" to you hitting them with a baseball bat,,,Well thats consent right?

It may be a machine doing the snooping, But every machine does carry the data that can be accessed, to ensure it is working properly. And that Data will include who you are... Example is YouTube. They are blanking out your information of what you watched before forwarding it to the scum bags.

goalieskates
Premium Member
join:2004-09-12
land of big

goalieskates

Premium Member

indefensible

Bob Dykes can "defend" this all he wants, but in my eyes it's indefensible.

I already use AdBlock Plus, thank you, but my data is my data. So he's cheating the advertisers he's selling to (I don't see their ads), the webmasters who have other ads, and worst of all people like me who've now become commodities.

It's just not that difficult to identify "anonymous" usage by running one database against another, and frankly, they have to know who the user is in fine detail in order to target their advertising appropriately.

Promises mean nothing. Just like gun control, they will only impact law-abiding companies; the crooks will still be packing. (ok, snooping)

I'm thinking in addition to educating Congress, some of us victims need to contact the companies who use NebuAd and let them know we're boycotting their products. I'd be willing to bet there are some pretty big, supposedly respected names on that list.

fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium Member
join:2001-05-25
Limbo

fireflier

Premium Member

Fix the defecit?

SARCASM

Maybe the NSA should just contract with nebuAD? That way nebuAD gets approval to track everything they do and the NSA doesn't require all their own resources to do the tracking. They can give it to the NSA wholesale and provide consumers with the advantages of "targeted advertising". Oh, and give the feds a fraction of a penny for each ad served.

We'll be back to a budget surplus in a few years, the feds will still be able to know everything we do and it will cost them less, and nebuAD turns a huge profit.

/SARCASM
ross7
join:2000-08-16

ross7

Member

Re: Fix the defecit?

said by fireflier:

SARCASM

Maybe the NSA should just contract with nebuAD? That way nebuAD gets approval to track everything they do and the NSA doesn't require all their own resources to do the tracking. They can give it to the NSA wholesale and provide consumers with the advantages of "targeted advertising". Oh, and give the feds a fraction of a penny for each ad served.

We'll be back to a budget surplus in a few years, the feds will still be able to know everything we do and it will cost them less, and nebuAD turns a huge profit.

/SARCASM
Is it just my paranoia, or does that sound plausible, doable and/or just plain inevitable...?
ISurfTooMuch
join:2007-04-23
Tuscaloosa, AL

1 recommendation

ISurfTooMuch to fireflier

Member

to fireflier
Maybe not the NSA, but I bet every local PD will love this. If this technology is in place, you can bet that someone will demand access to the data. If it isn't local law enforcement, then it'll be some politician or advocacy group. You know, to "protect the children" by checking to see if anyone has been visiting "inappropriate" Web sites. Or it'll be the RIAA or MPAA, who want to see if anyone has been downloading from a torrent site. Or it'll be a corporation trying to determine if someone is a whistleblower by checking to see if they've visited sites where company information has been posted.

The problem with any technology is that, even if the people who put it into place have the best intentions, someone will try to use it for other purposes. Not that I think NebuAD has the best intentions, but such tracking can be used for much more than delivering ads, and, once it's in place, someone will demand that it be used in other ways.

koma3504
Advocate
Premium Member
join:2004-06-22
Granbury, TX

koma3504

Premium Member

NO Way

There is no way I am going to buy any thing from a Personilized add period. If I Want it I know what websites to go get it from or there is always google search lol.