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Good for themI would likely do the same if I ran Netflix. It's time to put some of the blame on the crappy ISP's like Verizon. | |
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| openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Jun-6 3:17 am
Re: Good for themWill Netflix ever call out Level 3 for poor streaming quality and buffering? | |
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Re: Good for themNope. The general public have no clue what Level 3 is. | |
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| | Bengie25 join:2010-04-22 Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to openbox9
Level 3 isn't a residential ISP and they almost never have congestion issues, and when they do, they're quick to fix them. | |
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| | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Jun-6 4:10 pm
Re: Good for themsaid by Bengie25:they almost never have congestion issues Really? So Netflix's path to Verizon customers using Level 3 is never congested? It's just Cogent? Ok, will Netflix ever call out Cogent for poor stream quality and buffering? | |
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tshirt Premium Member join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA
1 recommendation |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jun-5 12:51 pm
So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix? Have they tested to be absolutely positively certain that an ISP blockade is the ONLY circumstance that can trigger a warning? That their definition of ABNORMAL is in fact abnormal? and are they willing to open it up for independent testing and analysis? perhaps even pay for continuing oversight and public disclosure? Cause right now it still looks like a "misleading PR stunt" | |
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| AVonGauss Premium Member join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?Agreed, there is a lot more real data that NetFlix or even Level3 could release without violating non-disclosure aspects of their contracts. | |
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to tshirt
I dont see this as a PR stunt at all, I see this as a transparency measure. Anyone other than an ISP employee would see it the same way | |
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| | AVonGauss Premium Member join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?I think that's the point, its lacking transparency and real supporting data. | |
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Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?And an auditor paid for BY comcast is transparent? Please, comcast has been shown to be a greedy corporation that does not care about their customers. They have one of the lowest customer satisfaction rates in the country. I believe netflix any day over comcast. | |
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| | | | AVonGauss Premium Member join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?Yet the evil corporation actually goes to the trouble of having a third party perform the audit and releases (at least for the last one) the basis (data) and audit report for public viewing. | |
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Probitas
Anon
2014-Jun-5 3:46 pm
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?So when a pharma company has a third party they pay for release documents stating their drug is safe even if others have tested and shown NOT safe, it gets approved and then kills people, that was reliable and not bought.
When any company doing any auditing has financial ties to the company they are auditing, that's a huge red flag in my book. Government institutions are supposed to be paid for by tax payers because it's in the publics interest, not private (again, stating what it should be, not what it likely is). | |
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| | | | | | AVonGauss Premium Member join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL 1 edit |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?While I would actually tend to agree a paid for study or even audit deserves more scrutiny, I would hardly compare a bandwidth meter to a drug viability analysis. My point, which you seem to have ignored, is they also tend to release the supporting data. Did you read it and find an area that is suspicious? | |
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Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?said by AVonGauss:While I would actually tend to agree a paid for study or even audit deserves more scrutiny, I would hardly compare a bandwidth meter to a drug viability analysis. My point, which you seem to have ignored, is they also tend to release the supporting data. Did you read it and find an area that is suspicious? Why don't you read the comments section of that article on this site? There are plenty of complaints about the methodology. But more importantly, there's no way to confirm the data is accurate. The release of the report wasn't "trouble" for Comcast, it was a calculated PR move to bolster the argument for their merger. | |
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| | | | | | | | AVonGauss Premium Member join:2007-11-01 Boynton Beach, FL |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?The released the first audit long before there was any TWC merger.... | |
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| | | | | | | ieolusSupport The Clecs join:2001-06-19 Danbury, CT |
to AVonGauss
This is how it works... 1. manipulate data 2. provide said manipulated data to "independent 3rd party" 3. release report based on manipulated data 4. ??? 5. profit | |
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| | | | | | tshirt Premium Member join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA |
to Probitas
Nobody died here, MAYBE, at most, somebody pays a few extra a month until it get a hearing. MAYBE | |
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to AVonGauss
See, this bothers me "That's how it works now, but Netflix may modify/tune as they continue to roll out and learn more. Sort of like " it's not finished, may not even work correctly, but the first thing we'll do, is put up a billboard and accuse them of stalling" rather then quietly informing the new "partner/signatory" that the interconnect is not yet up to the task. it's the highly publicized part of the stunt that doesn't seem to be quite right. | |
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Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?Some of their criteria is based on arbitrary set points, like what is "abnormally compressed". For credibility they want that to set that at a point where it still holds true that it's the trouble is on the ISP's end. They may even be conservative (a prudent decision when you begin pointing fingers) right now and have that value at a high level and then lower it later. | |
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| | | | | tshirt Premium Member join:2004-07-11 Snohomish, WA |
tshirt
Premium Member
2014-Jun-5 2:17 pm
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?MAYBE, it has yet to be shown what their exact methodology and assumptions are, but they don't seem to have chosen the conservative approach to anything else so far. Perhaps they will reveal actual numbers rather then unsupported conclusions. | |
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Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?Why should they when you have the last mile corp ISP vultures make them pay twice.... | |
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to pumpkinhead7
Skype does similar, too, even when it don't mention a specific ISP name in a warning message. | |
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| dfxmatt join:2007-08-21 Crystal Lake, IL
1 recommendation |
to tshirt
Please. Do you even know anything about networking? It's very plausible that this is deliberate congestion and does not read at all like "PR stunt" | |
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| | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Jun-6 3:20 am
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?And it's very plausible that this is not deliberate congestion but may be the fault of Netflix's service providers. Why are they never questioned, especially given Level 3 and Cogent's histories? | |
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| | | dfxmatt join:2007-08-21 Crystal Lake, IL 1 edit |
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?They have probably been yelling at their service providers continually about this for it to actually come to a public spat. Also see » www.techdirt.com/article ··· rs.shtml , which shows that this is 100% verizon. | |
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| | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Jun-6 4:07 pm
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?That article doesn't show anything except for another outlet jumping on the "it's Verizon's fault" bandwagon. | |
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| | | Bengie25 join:2010-04-22 Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to openbox9
Cogent has a horrible history, but Level 3, while not flawless, is a shining example of an ethical business. | |
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| | | | openbox9 Premium Member join:2004-01-26 71144 |
openbox9
Premium Member
2014-Jun-6 4:08 pm
Re: So, Comcast has had their meter independantly audited... will Neflix?Shining example of ethical business? Please, do tell. | |
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PlusOne to tshirt
Anon
2014-Jun-5 3:39 pm
to tshirt
said by tshirt: Have they tested to be absolutely positively certain that an ISP blockade is the ONLY circumstance that can trigger a warning? That their definition of ABNORMAL is in fact abnormal? and are they willing to open it up for independent testing and analysis? perhaps even pay for continuing oversight and public disclosure? Cause right now it still looks like a "misleading PR stunt" Good point. People here demand that Comcast submit to federal regulators over their measurement claims. So where is the demand that Netflix do the same. Well??? | |
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IPPlanManHoly Cable Modem Batman join:2000-09-20 Washington, DC |
Peering question....Comcast peering has improved performance.
Verizon peering has not.
Anyone have an opinion why? | |
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Accuracy?How does accuracy help that when it's relative and the a few of the checks are discrete? People either can or can't maintain a certain bitstream. Unless the amount the measurement is off by is wandering, they are compareing the same connection points on it's capacity during peak and off peak times. So if netflix's meter is 10% high during off peak, and it's 10% high during peak, the difference between them doesn't change, so why does accuracy matter in that respect? | |
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Make me understandI'm reading the Netflix blog and the graphic representation of how they are connecting makes sense visually, however I'm confused by something : isn't Netflix still using one of those content carriers like level3 for example to still be able to connect directly to Comcast? Whose pipe is it between Comcast and Netflix?
It's probably something I'm missing that's super simple..... | |
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Re: Make me understandThey could simply be doing a trace route to find the bottle neck when they identify one exists. | |
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| ieolusSupport The Clecs join:2001-06-19 Danbury, CT |
to marctronixx
Netflix paid protection money to Comcast to peer directly with their network in February or thereabouts. | |
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Gave upAt our end we gave up on any Netflix bandwidth. They started showing problems in the fall of 2013 and has gotten so bad that we cannot say it will even work right at our fiber optic connection. I personally have a 50Meg connection via wireless and Netflix online truly sucks. Netflix want us to peer with them but the cost, outrageous. | |
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| ieolusSupport The Clecs join:2001-06-19 Danbury, CT |
ieolus
Member
2014-Jun-6 10:37 am
Re: Gave upWho is "us"? Do you run an ISP? Why not take Netflix up on their OpenConnect and then all problems go away? | |
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| Bengie25 join:2010-04-22 Wisconsin Rapids, WI |
to Yucca Servic
Netflix is free to peer with at an IX.
If you want a CDN device, then you need to meet a minimum of 2gb/s of peak bandwidth.
These two options are hard for smaller ISPs, but simple for larger ones. | |
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Pretty coolI personally think this is pretty cool and hope to see more of this for ALL ISPs. Sometimes a little shaming gets engineers off there butts and things get fixed if there are things that need to be. | |
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