 pandoraPremium
join:2001-06-01
Outland
kudos:1 | it's no surprise kudos Netflix. | |
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| | Still use DVDs but prefer streaming I still use DVDs from Netflix but mainly because everything isn't available via streaming. When something is available via DVD or streaming, I typically choose streaming. As more titles become available via streaming, I'll have less and less DVDs to take out and the value of the Netflix service will grow. (Assuming the media companies don't mess it all up, of course, in one way or another.)
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-Jason Levine | |
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 |  rpeAMP
join:2000-12-02
San Antonio, TX | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming Agreed! If they would make everything available through streaming it would do a lot to change their timeframe on how long the expect DVD renting to be a substantial part of their business. | |
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|  RockCakePremium
join:2005-07-12
Woodbridge, VA
 ·Verizon FiOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by Jason Levine: As more titles become available via streaming, I'll have less and less DVDs to take out and the value of the Netflix service will grow. (Assuming the media companies don't mess it all up, of course, in one way or another.) Don't worry, they will. | |
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| | | I don't know, call me old fashioned but I have not paid for my 50" Plasma along with a 7.1 Surround sound and a great woofer to watch Youtube quality video with stuttering.
Call me when broadband pipes become wide enough and cheap enough to allow for pure HD Video and Sound streaming.
I take my Blu-ray over Streaming any day. | |
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| |  morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming Blu-ray is DOA. | |
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| | | | | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming I had to dust my Ouija board to contact the late dadkins and I conveyed your message that Blu-ray was DOA over streaming and the Ouija board bursted in flames. I take it he meant to convey something that if repeated would get me banned or something lol =P
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dream your dreams with open eyes and make them come true... | |
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| | | | Reviews:
 ·Comcast
| Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming said by ToxicDrew:I had to dust my Ouija board to contact the late dadkins and I conveyed your message that Blu-ray was DOA over streaming and the Ouija board bursted in flames. I take it he meant to convey something that if repeated would get me banned or something lol =P WOW Now that is a great post | |
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| | | | | said by morbo:Blu-ray is DOA. IF BLU-RAY is DOA over streaming then we are living in a sad sad society!
That might be true in 10 years but not today, not even in the next 5 years. I mean hell average U.S. download speed is 1.9 Mbps. The bandwith required for full 1080p Blu-ray WITHOUT the TRU-HD sound is 54 Mbps. Most LOCAL WiFi connections can't even pull 54 Mbps beyond 20 feet from base. Most Older routers can't even keep a sustained 54 Mbps going.
And a COMCAST price for a 50 Mbit is $140.00 a month.
So yeah, IF you could provide me with a minimum 100 Mbit bandwith (since hell I am not the only one using the net in my house) for $50 a month combined with at least a sustained download speed of 65 Mbit (got to take Tru-HD sound into account...currently True-HD is 13.5 Mbits but it's speced into 18 Mbps) then I will take streaming over Blu-ray. But until that day comes, NO WAY!!!
I mean shiat watching streaming video on my system feels like listening to a 128 Kbit MP3 while attending the orchestra. | |
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| | | | Synbios
join:2002-05-18
Arlington, VA | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming said by tempnexus:said by morbo:Blu-ray is DOA. IF BLU-RAY is DOA over streaming then we are living in a sad sad society! That might be true in 10 years but not today, not even in the next 5 years. I mean hell average U.S. download speed is 1.9 Mbps. The bandwith required for full 1080p Blu-ray WITHOUT the TRU-HD sound is 54 Mbps. Most LOCAL WiFi connections can't even pull 54 Mbps beyond 20 feet from base. Most Older routers can't even keep a sustained 54 Mbps going. And a COMCAST price for a 50 Mbit is $140.00 a month. So yeah, IF you could provide me with a minimum 100 Mbit bandwith (since hell I am not the only one using the net in my house) for $50 a month combined with at least a sustained download speed of 65 Mbit (got to take Tru-HD sound into account...currently True-HD is 13.5 Mbits but it's speced into 18 Mbps) then I will take streaming over Blu-ray. But until that day comes, NO WAY!!! I mean shiat watching streaming video on my system feels like listening to a 128 Kbit MP3 while attending the orchestra. The bandwidth for blu-ray is much closer to 30 Mbps, 54 Mbps is the maximum transfer rate not including TrueHD.
I agree that streaming has a long way to come before it is comparable to blu-ray though. I choose blu-ray over streaming if possible.
Anybody who chooses streaming as their primary source of video is either lazy or doesn't have an eye for quality. | |
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| | | |  Jon GebWal-Mart Sucks
join:2001-01-09
Howell, MI | FTW
Blue-ray > Streaming.
Even Direct TVs 1080p is probably half the bit rate or maybe 1/4th. | |
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| | | |  aaronwtPremium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA
·Verizon FiOS
| said by tempnexus:said by morbo:Blu-ray is DOA. IF BLU-RAY is DOA over streaming then we are living in a sad sad society! That might be true in 10 years but not today, not even in the next 5 years. I mean hell average U.S. download speed is 1.9 Mbps. The bandwith required for full 1080p Blu-ray WITHOUT the TRU-HD sound is 54 Mbps. Most LOCAL WiFi connections can't even pull 54 Mbps beyond 20 feet from base. Most Older routers can't even keep a sustained 54 Mbps going. And a COMCAST price for a 50 Mbit is $140.00 a month. So yeah, IF you could provide me with a minimum 100 Mbit bandwith (since hell I am not the only one using the net in my house) for $50 a month combined with at least a sustained download speed of 65 Mbit (got to take Tru-HD sound into account...currently True-HD is 13.5 Mbits but it's speced into 18 Mbps) then I will take streaming over Blu-ray. But until that day comes, NO WAY!!! I mean shiat watching streaming video on my system feels like listening to a 128 Kbit MP3 while attending the orchestra. 54mbs is the max bitrate of BD with audio and video. Most BD titles are much slower. And streaming is different than reading from a disc. The streaming bitrate can be lower than a disc bitrate since a disc has to consider all streams available on the disc. | |
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| | | | morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | Blu Ray will not thrive anywhere near the way DVD has. There are simply too many alternatives, owning physical media is burdonsome, and the premium on buying or renting blu ray is not worth the gain. Most people will settle for streaming or upconverting dvd players.
Blu ray is really just a small niche. Maybe if the format wars hadn't happened we would have seen more widespread adoption. | |
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| | | | You must have a slow internet connection. I have 16MB with Charter and HD Stream is consistent with no stuttering. Sound is great.
Don't get me wrong Blu-Ray is great but much of the HD is perfect on what I watch.
I stream mine via Ethernet to my LG Blu-Ray player. I use it more for tv series than movies. $8.99 for one at a time and unlimited stream is just fine. I will pay more if they asked.
Now the bigger issue is Cap's getting enforced by ISP providers. | |
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| | |
1 edit | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming YEs for TV Shows I understand streaming to be an additional nice plus to what they allready offer.
However, I don't see it being a replacement for Blu-ray anytime soon.
It might happen since it appears that the populace at large does not care about sound/video quality (explosion of low quality MP3's...for the longest time the standard sound was 128 or 160).
I would never watch AVATAR streamed if I had a choice to see it via Blu-Ray.
Of course a fast connection might provide better quality than DVD but not Blu-ray. And yes CAPS are an issue if you consider that each movie at max quality streamed is about 8 GB. | |
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| | | | Looks like you haven't seen NetFlix streaming then. Impressive quality and no stuttering. I've watched it in native WinXP, WinXP guest running on an Ubuntu Host, my Wii. All very good quality.
If your connection is fast then it's DVD quality. And scene skipping is like Apple's 'coverflow'
Netlfix = WIN!!!! | |
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| | | | I can't speak for 50" plasma screens. My TV is a 32" SD set. Yes, I have yet to go HD mainly due to price concerns. My SD sets still work, so why toss them and buy expensive new sets just to get "high definition." Eventually, as my SD sets die, I'll buy HD sets (because they're the only ones out now) but I'll milk my SD sets for as long as they possibly can last.
As far as streams stuttering, though, if YouTube works fine on your PC, it would work fine on your TV. Netflix streaming tends to be excellent by me even via wireless. Like with HD, my wireless network is older. It is 802.11b/g instead of 802.11n because my older equipment doesn't support the latest technology. So while my SD streams might not take up as much bandwidth, a 802.11n network might make up the difference. (Or you could go Ethernet which would definitely be able to handle HD streams.)
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-Jason Levine | |
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| | | I will not be using digital DRM files or streaming.I own stuff that is physical stuff.
i refuse to buy into a digital only existence. | |
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| KearnstdElf WizardPremium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | the ISPs will drop the cap-hammer or QOS the netflix domain to hell just to prevent loss of their own revenue. this is why they fight net neutrality because they fear becoming a pipe where the customer has choice.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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| | Synbios
join:2002-05-18
Arlington, VA | Re: Still use DVDs but prefer streaming said by Kearnstd:the ISPs will drop the cap-hammer or QOS the netflix domain to hell just to prevent loss of their own revenue. this is why they fight net neutrality because they fear becoming a pipe where the customer has choice. Yup, exactly the same problem with VoIP and how all the ISPs hate vonage. It's like they're piggy backing off somebody else's network to provide lower prices due to lower operating costs. | |
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| | Bengie25
join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI | They can't out-right "ban" them. If you're worried about QoS or caps, then pay the extra $20-$30/month for a business line. Business lines are uncapped AND you get a TON better customer service. | |
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 bionicRodFunkier than a mohair disco ball.Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state
·CenturyLink
·Mediacom
| Love the service I get the newer dvds in the mail, and I use streaming to watch great tv series I've missed and smaller films I probably wouldn't have seen otherwise. I usually go through about 8 blu-rays a month and stream at least a couple movies or tv shows a weekend. Well worth the 20 bucks a month. | |
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|  Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Love the service I agree.. We use the service on our Wii and it works perfectly. We love it! Also, since the Wii is wireless, we can bring it anywhere and watch a movie or two with family and friends.
We can also get discs in the mail and the turnaround is 1-2 days. I couldn't believe it, especially in Montana. | |
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| | bionicRodFunkier than a mohair disco ball.Premium
join:2009-07-06
united state | Re: Love the service Yes we're lucky, we live about thirty minutes away from a distribution facility. Put a disc in the mail on Monday, have one waiting on Wednesday. Good stuff! | |
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| | | | | Re: Love the service love and hate netflix I always find myself canceling and then coming back but have not come back for a while. They need to get more streaming movie selections. | |
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glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | Meh When they start streaming Bluray with DTS-HD then I'm in. | |
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| Simba7I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT | Re: Meh ..only if you have the bandwidth.. without caps.. | |
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| |  jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: Meh We have FiOS, and we could SEND a 24-hour Blu-ray stream all year long without issue. | |
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| | | glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY | Re: Meh Sir, you nailed it! haha FiOS ftw! | |
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| BlueC
join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN Reviews:
·Integra Telecom
 ·voip.ms
 ·T-Mobile US
| said by glinc:When they start streaming Bluray with DTS-HD then I'm in. Agreed. Exactly why I cancelled Netflix awhile ago. The streaming quality isn't all that great. 2 channel audio, sub par (in my opinion) compression. It's lower quality than HDTV.
I've tried the streaming through both my PS3 and PC and was disappointed with each one. Bandwidth isn't an issue (I can download a 2GB file in under 5 minutes). | |
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| | jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: Meh I am on board with your sentiments as well. I could also add that I would be more receptive to Netflix streaming if the goons that control the media would allow for us to stream new releases at the same time they come out on physical formats.
I keep my account active because of the relatively low cost for what you get. We have 2 separate Netflix accounts and it is available on our computers, a PS3, 2 Xbox 360's, a Wii, and an iPad. It is, admittedly, the last option I would ever choose to play a movie, but it's nice to have the option available. | |
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| | glinc
join:2009-04-07
New York, NY Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
1 edit | Yup. I cancelled due to the lack of new movies (quality of movies also) on the streaming service + the extra fee they charge for bluray rentals.
I got a free streaming disc for my PS3 cause a family member is paying for it but I barely use it. | |
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| | Love Netflix Been using them for years now.
I just started testing the streaming option this year. We have tried using the Nintendo Wii (don't do it; constantly rebuffers data) and then our new TiVo Premier (do it; never rebuffers data).
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Hope this helps... | |
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| jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: Love Netflix Haven't had any issues with the Wii, and this is going through about 3-4 walls at around 80 FT. I am using a wireless N access point, but obviously it is in mixed g/n mode to support the Wii. I was honestly surprised that it works so well. I would have never bothered to try, but since the Wii can't do 720p, I figured I would give it a go and hope for the best. | |
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| |  Shack
join:2002-01-17
Bloomington, IN | Re: Love Netflix I have been streaming with a Wii on a very old Dlink di-512 wireless G for a few months with no issues, It works fine, of course it is 480p on my 1080i HDcrtv, but it looks about as good as an upconverted dvd. | |
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|  Lark3poPremium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
·Knology
| said by bbrkdub:Been using them for years now. I just started testing the streaming option this year. We have tried using the Nintendo Wii (don't do it; constantly rebuffers data) and then our new TiVo Premier (do it; never rebuffers data). I have no problems with Netflix streaming to my Wii. Maybe your connection is a little weak in the britches? :P | |
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| | | I've been using it since January of last year, it is great!
Though I still use a CRT 35 inch RCA from 1996 (anyone out there streaming Netflix to a older CRT?) that streams good pictures, whenever it blows up for the last time, it will be flat panel time!
If I'm in my basement working out, I just bring my macbook with me and stream some movies to pass the time. | |
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|  MysticGogetaThe Robot DevilPremium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX | I use our Wii all the time for streaming with no problems, but if the TiVo works roll with it.
--
Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
|
 R4M0NBrazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA
1 edit | I'm a convert I've said it before and I'll say it again:
I thought I had no use for netflix until I tried it. Now I can't see myself not having it. I get blu-ray discs in the mail for the movies I want to watch in all their HD glory and I stream to my PS3 those movies that I just want to watch. If I had to make a guesstimate, it's running at about 90% streaming to 10% mailing in my house.
My 2 year-old loves the kids selection and it has become a life-saver at those times we need her to sit still for a few minutes.
Money well spent, in my opinion. | |
|
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
| So far .. ok... I've noticed the limited titles, restrictions from studios, sub-par quality, sound issues, negotiation, search-crippled and other little "growing" pains that need resolve.
I do like Netflix and am one of the many that have ditched Broadcast/Cable TV for Net, Streaming and OTA HD. But unless Netflix can guarantee titles to streams without interruption from the studios (content)...
Perhaps Netflix should invest money for it's own Netflix Productions releases with exclusive streams?
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Splat | |
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| | The movies studios need to see the light I HATE dealing with DVDs and other forms of physical media. So much so that I now refuse to buy CDs/DVDs. All of my movies are now stored on a massive storage RAID array in my home theater PC. I'm able to stream these movies to any TV in the house. It is much more convenient to push a couple of buttons on my remote when I want to watch a movie.
Yes, we all enjoy the quality associated with Blu-Ray movies. However 95% of the time DVD quality works just fine... I just want to watch the damn movie.
MOVIE STUDIOS: I want to GIVE YOU MONEY in return for the capability to stream your content over the internet to my TV! Sorry, but the only alternative is visiting a known torrent site to get the latest releases. Shiny frisbees are so 1999 (and very inconvenient). | |
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| | | Re: The movies studios need to see the light Just out of curiosity.... if you hate dealing with DVDs and other forms of physical and thus refuse to buy them how are you LEGALLY getting the content onto your RAID array? | |
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| | | said by sharksfan3:I HATE dealing with DVDs and other forms of physical media. So much so that I now refuse to buy CDs/DVDs. All of my movies are now stored on a massive storage RAID array in my home theater PC. I'm able to stream these movies to any TV in the house. It is much more convenient to push a couple of buttons on my remote when I want to watch a movie. Yes, we all enjoy the quality associated with Blu-Ray movies. However 95% of the time DVD quality works just fine... I just want to watch the damn movie. MOVIE STUDIOS: I want to GIVE YOU MONEY in return for the capability to stream your content over the internet to my TV! Sorry, but the only alternative is visiting a known torrent site to get the latest releases. Shiny frisbees are so 1999 (and very inconvenient). The Studios just don't get it. On one hand they complain about pirating movies but are afraid of letting people watch their movies through Netflix through streaming. Don't they realize if people can watch all they want for one fee, maybe then people won't pirate their movies as much? | |
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 BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Better have newer movies Instead if the 10 year old ones they have now on streaming. | |
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|  PhilRojo SolPremium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
kudos:2 | Re: Better have newer movies said by BF69:Instead if the 10 year old ones they have now on streaming. It's not up to them. If it were they'd have their entire library available for streaming. | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: Better have newer movies said by Phil:said by BF69:Instead if the 10 year old ones they have now on streaming. It's not up to them. If it were they'd have their entire library available for streaming. Well if they go streaming only and don't have newer movies they'll be out of business very shortly there after. | |
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| jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | said by BF69:Instead if the 10 year old ones they have now on streaming. To say they only provide movies that are over a decade old for streaming is bit unfair. I find the streaming choices to be on par with the premium movie subscriptions. | |
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| | BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | Re: Better have newer movies said by jmn1207:said by BF69:Instead if the 10 year old ones they have now on streaming. To say they only provide movies that are over a decade old for streaming is bit unfair. I find the streaming choices to be on par with the premium movie subscriptions. Well unless things have changed in the last few months. About 3 or 4 months ago I went through and looked at the top 60 grossing movies from 2000-2009( so that's 600 movies ) and only about a dozen were available for Netflix streaming. | |
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| | | jmn1207Premium
join:2000-07-19
Ashburn, VA | Re: Better have newer movies I see, you are absolutely correct.
I didn't realize just how many mainstream movies were being omitted. They do release new streaming movies each week, and these are recent films, but the overwhelming majority of the most popular ones don't make their way to a streaming option for many years, as you pointed out.
My mistake. | |
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PhilRojo SolPremium
join:2001-06-11
Camarillo, CA
kudos:2 | Love Netflix I've had the same physical DVD from Netflix since December. I only use their streaming service. | |
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|  digiblurGot Sipura?Premium
join:2002-06-03
Louisiana | Re: Love Netflix said by Phil:I've had the same physical DVD from Netflix since December. I only use their streaming service. Sounds about like me... I keep forgetting to return my DVD from netflix. We have 2 Roku's, 2 Blu-Ray players, 1 360, and 1 Wii hooked up around the house to stream on. Love it.
They keep adding tons and tons of shows to Netflix. I keep an eye on this link to keep up with all the adds:
»www.thenowhereman.com/netflix/
Love all the Discovery channel adds and other channels.
--
SouthWest Louisiana PC Users Group »www.swlapcug.com | |
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| | My family loves it I have been on the Netflix subscription service for a couple of years now and I love it. I am on the one at a time feature with unlimited streaming.
The biggest reason why is my kid watches movies thru my 360 all the time. The children's movies are great for him and they have all the tv shows he loves, Caillou, Kipper etc.
Granted they are not in 7.1 etc, but who cares he's 2.
My one and only gripe is that newer releases don't stream but that is not Netflix's deal, that is on the Studio's. | |
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|  kadosHail OdinPremium
join:2003-03-14
Watertown, SD
kudos:1 | Re: My family loves it I don't personally use netflix right now, one cost I just can't afford right now. My buddy has the one a time and unlimited streaming. I've been impressed with the streaming on his ps3, he's on slow qwest dsl and it still streams awesome.
I am planning on signing up for it soon though.
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Bla Bla Bla | |
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 espaethDigital PlumberPremium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2 | 2010 and still no 5.1 audio on streaming movies Once you have surround sound, you'll never go back to watching movies without. It makes as big of a difference as the jump from SD to HD. | |
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| amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Re: 2010 and still no 5.1 audio on streaming movies I agree it's awesome, but I personally don't care that much.
Quality stereo is fine for me in most cases unless I'm really wanting the full experience.
Having it is certainly better than not, which I'm not arguing. Just saying I personally don't care as long as the stereo sounds decent.
Anyway, they really ought to pressure the studios more. There's no good reason they can't have a streaming service on par with Rhapsody for music.
I've been waiting YEARS for a video service like Rhapsody is for music. First Vongo, now Netflix - both disappoint since the catalog is so limited. Netflix is certainly better than Vongo ever was, but they really need to convince the studios to allow more flexibility.
Quality over quantity would be nice, but I'm sure they'll match up eventually. At some point, they'll probably start doing surround, but I hope the catalog is also expanded. Either way, I'd almost rather keep stereo audio in favor of better video if I had to choose.
Maybe by the time our great great great grandchildren have kids, they'll see the day where everything is streamable 
Of course, by then, we can hope that such things are of little concern, and the world is a better place all around. | |
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BF69Premium
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | company still expects to rent DVDs until 2030 Yeah ok so that means they'll stop renting VHS in 2020? Blu-ray will be ancient history in 2030. | |
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| | USPS hopes DVDs stay around Netflix may be the only thing holding the United States Postal Service up. They better hope Netflix keeps shipping for the foreseeable future.
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morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | 2030? Try 2020. The end of DVDs will be here in 2020. | |
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 billdacatPremium
join:2009-05-26
Sicklerville, NJ | Netflix I made a bird bath out of the satellite dish last year. Rooftop antenna, FiOS, (internet and phone), HTPC, and a Netflix subscription. I don’t need no stinking cable…
You know those 200 channels that you get with cable, nothing is ever on or it is plagued with so many commercials that you develop ADD.
The HTPC allows me to warp through the pesky commercials. The Netflix streaming is there for me when nothing else is on…
BTW: I may miss some sporting events, but who cares, it’s there loss. My wallet is much happier.  | |
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|  GeekJediRF is Good For YouPremium
join:2001-06-21
Mukwonago, WI | Re: Netflix I just did the same thing. I couldn't be happier! | |
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jca2050Premium
join:2002-02-04
Hacienda Heights, CA | DVDs in 2030? We are still going to be using DVDs 20 years from now? Lol, I would hope not. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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Reviews:
·Optimum Online
| Netflix streaming is a perfect add on to the DVD's by mail Netflix streaming is a perfect add on to the DVD's by mail. I recently bought a bluray player with Netflix and turned off all but one premium movie channel. Here are my thoughts so far:
1. The HD streaming over my 15 MB internet connection is soft as compared to a HD premium movie channel. I love the huge amount of content available, especially the titles that are older that we missed or want to see again. The streaming is slow or re-buffers frequently on weekends, especially Saturday afternoons and evenings.
2. I do not want to depend on just one company for my movie entertainment. Netflix did not send me a new movie on Friday, May 29, saying that they were too busy. I had an empty rental slot until Saturday, May 30. This meant that I would not receive a new movie on Saturday. I used Redbox for a new movie (The Road). I still want to keep at least one premium movie channel (Cinemax). The HD looks great and it is on all TV's.
3. Some of the Blurays/DVDs that Netflix sends out do not play. There are no refunds and you will not get a replacement for 2-3 days. It has happened to me twice in the same month so that is almost a week with an empty rental slot with no refund.
4. The rental Blurays/DVDs are not the same as the purchased ones. My copy of "Sherlock Holmes" had no extra features and not even scene access!
5. Overall I love Netflix for Bluray new releases and streaming in HD to my TV. I just need other options as a backup when Netflix fails to deliver. | |
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