 
Skeedatl
Ah, push it - push it real good
Premium
join:2007-12-26
The Cloud | Very smart Build the hardware and let other's build superior software. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Very smart Yes!
It's too bad that when a company does something this admirable, people still snipe about feature quibbles, other products the company makes or how they're "lazy".
The big picture here is, this illustrates how open-source, liberal-licensed software creates a net social benefit. It saves the cost of each company creating their own software to do the same thing (net waste). Once the firmware is out there, everyone can benefit for a long time, and it can go on being improved, and the resources that would have been spent making proprietary versions can now be used for something more productive. | |
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| | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Very smart If this was new tech I would agree with you, but it is not. Introducing some new current hardware and letting the OS crew debug it to save the development costs would make sense, but not using ten year old hardware that they already have tons of development money invested in. | |
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wwdubbia
join:2002-06-03
Clinton, NY
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Very smart said by Lazlow  :If this was new tech I would agree with you, but it is not. Introducing some new current hardware and letting the OS crew debug it to save the development costs would make sense, but not using ten year old hardware that they already have tons of development money invested in. aren't those blue linksys boxes a little dated themselves? | |
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| | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Very smart Yep, they are dated. But they have had 3rd party support for a very long time(since V1 and I think they are on V7 now). What I wish they would do is reintroduce them with GigE, 48mb ram, 16 flash, a 350Mhz processors, and wireless N (I could live without the N but I need the GigE). So far as I can tell, such a box would have zero(0) competition. | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Very smart I was trying to find something that met most of what he mentioned. Short of using an old computer to do routing/AP, cheapest I found is around $250, without 802.11b/g card.
»www.routerboard.com/comparison.h···erSeries
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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| | | | | | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Very smart The GigE part cannot be that big of a deal. I am using a $35 5port GigE switch behind a WRT54G now. So I find it hard to believe that it would be that difficult to graft the GigE electronics into the router.
We all know that ram and flash are dirt cheap right now, so that should not be the issue. If they cannot go from a 125MHZ processor in 2002 to a 350MHZ processor now, I would find that extremely hard to believe. | |
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rawgerz
In Debt we trust
Premium
join:2004-10-03
Grove City, PA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: Very smart I agree but for some reason they don't think people are interested in it, or have some really long contracts with their suppliers, or maybe just don't care? They are still using SDRAM these days and it's not really as cheap as DDR2 is now.
I can't believe that they (Linksys, Dlink, Netgear, etc.) still can't even make a router that won't crash with even the most basic of connections in this age.. And the fact they don't make them with integrated battery backup.
That's why I'd rather make one myself if I needed it.
It would cost a lot more but in the end you'd get what you'd pay for.
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You can't make all the people happy all of the time. But it should be common sense to shoot for the majority. | |
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| | | | | | NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Hrm.. that's one overpriced RB1000 I think.
FYI it runs RouterOS from Mikrotik and it's a good OS. You can just install it on a PC and get the same benefits with a few good NIC cards. | |
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avd706
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Great Neck, NY
| said by Skeedatl :Build the hardware and let other's build superior software. Like IBM did with the original PC. | |
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| CMoore2004
i r teh smarts
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Jonesville, MI
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| Re: more of I'd like to mention my Linksys and my Buffalo routers both worked VERY well out of the box, but the custom firmware will let you do much more than most routers you'll find at Best Buy or Circuit City. Personally, I won't buy Netgear, but if the hardware is decent then people can do what they wish to with it. | |
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| | rexbasham
Premium
join:2008-07-02
Pittsburgh, PA
| Re: more of Personally, I will never buy Linksys again:
This all started because I had switched ISPs from Verizon DSL to Comcast Cable. Purchased a NEW Linksys WCG200 ver.2 combo modem/router/wireless. I kept getting bounced and contacted Comcast support. They ran some report and the WCG200 had auto-self-booted 60 times in the past 7 days. Time to contact Linksys for a replacement -or- a flash for the firmware on my unit.
The results of contacting Linksys's useless support/RMA departments follows...
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Discussion Thread
Customer (Rex Basham) 06/26/2008 09:31 AM
To Whom It May Concern:
Your USED QA Passed replacement unit is being returned via the RMA you gave me for the original defective WCG200 ver.2 and is being shipped C.O.D.
(i.e. You pay the shipping because it is your malfunctioning piece of equipment, not mine.)
I have instructed my credit card company to not pay ANY charges from Linksys Corporation.
The original defective WCG200 ver.2 with the bad firmware unit is being returned to Amazon.com and my credit card will be reimbursed in the full amount of the original purchase. They have already sent me the UPS RMA with the shipping charges covered.
I have replaced your defective unit with a Motorola cable modem and a Netgear WPN824 wireless router. I will NEVER purchase another Linksys product and I will strongly recommend that no one else does either.
This situation could have been easily remedied had your RMA Department provided me with a NEW replacement unit which had the current firmware installed -or- you had provided me with the flash utility and the updated firmware flash file.
Your RMA support department is useless. I got bounced around to four different Level 1 support reps yesterday, 2 different supervisors, and a Level 2 rep. I spent over 3.5 hours on the phone with your useless RMA staff attempting to resolve my situation to no avail.
The ticket number was 080625-003626.
The support reps/supervisors badge ID's that I wrote down follow:
#16900 (can't recall the name, Level 1)
#29447 (Jay, Level 1)
#16340 (Pia, supervisor)
#27181 (Sarah, Level 2)
The last support rep I spoke with (unfortunately) I did not get her name but she is totally useless.
She kept me on the phone for 45 minutes repetitively going over information I had already covered with 3 other support reps (and a supervisor and a level 2 rep) and she adamantly refused to get me a supervisor during this entire time. Pia had already told me to call back and request her
specifically after I contacted my ISP (Comcast). This idiot first told me all the supervisors were in a meeting. I told her to interrupt the meeting and get Pia on the phone. Elevator music. She comes back and now tells me Pia had stepped outside. I demanded that she get another supervisor -or- Pia's manager. She still refused.
Finally she decided that the only additional statement she was going to hear from me was "GET A DAMN SUPERVISOR ON THE PHONE NOW!"
Since she was obviously having a difficult time understanding this extremely simple ENGLISH (Philippine support center) request, I spelled it out for her:
"G-E-T A D-A-M-N S-U-P-E-R-V-I-S-O-R O-N T-H-E P-H-O-N-E N-O-W P-E-R-I-O-D"
More elevator music and she finally comes back a supervisor named Mary. I do not have Mary's badge number but it should be in the ticket. I told Mary that I wanted a NEW (aka not used) WCG200 ver.2 with current firmware shipped immediately, overnight, and Linksys should pick up the charges. She rattled some crap about blah blah blah, we can't do that.
At this point, the telephone conversation is over and I hung up. I had already wasted enough of my day with your uncooperative and unresponsive RMA un-support staff.
As soon as I hit the send button on this email, your defective WCG200 ver.2 product is powered down and shipped back.
Have a nice day, WMFOOMA!
Succinctly,
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If you are interested, WMFOOMA is a wonderful support rep, William (Bill) Fooma:
aka "When Monkies Fly Out Of My A**!"
Linksys? Not even if they were paying me to take their equipment! The Netgear 824 has not so much as burped since I fired it up and I get twice the signal strength on the wireless (4 bars vs. 2 bars). Just FYI. | |
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| | | NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX | Re: more of Think that's bad. We have new routers from Cisco that some parts are worth more than my house. They break in a month or two (Infant mortality) and they send us refurbs. And that's on a multimillion support contract. | |
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| | | eyekahn
join:2008-06-22
Hanover, MD | Man, you're a real prick, dude. Some people sure are real badasses on the phone when they're not dealing with someone face-to-face. All this over a $40 router? Cheap ass. | |
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| | | | Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: more of eyekahn
It is attitudes like yours that have lead to customer service being like this. Linksys (Cisco now) sold the $40 router. It should work. If it does not work they should take care of the customer. Since it was obviously a new router that failed, it should be replaced with a new working router, not somebody else's rejects. Having the attitude that it was JUST a $40 router encourages companies to just give everybody the run around. If it is cheaper to give people the run around than to replace the product, and nobody says anything, that is what they will continue to do. If companies get away with it on a $40 item they will slowly move to more expensive items. You go pick up your new car, drive half a block and the engine ceases. The dealer brings out a used car with 20K miles on it and says here is your replacement. Will you accept the second car? | |
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| | | | rexbasham
Premium
join:2008-07-02
Pittsburgh, PA | Sprechen zie Deutsch? Ich werde Sie ficken!
It was $114+ (and that was at amazon.com's discount price)
If you don't know what you are talking about then STFU! | |
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| | | | | rexbasham
Premium
join:2008-07-02
Pittsburgh, PA | Re: more of BTW, that last post of mine was directed to eyekahn (I think, the bozo can't put his name in and goes by an alias) who implied that I am a prick for wanting to be supplied what I paid for. | |
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| | | | rexbasham
Premium
join:2008-07-02
Pittsburgh, PA
| Actually, no, I'm not a real prick.
I am a very successful technical support rep (level 1 & 2) and have been for over 25 years on mainframes, Windows, Unix, Linux, etc., etc., etc.,..., ad infinitum.
Rule 1) The customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2) Be happy they are having problems and calling.
It keeps you employed. | |
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| | | NgtFlyer
join:2000-07-09
Marietta, GA
·Speakeasy
| I'll add my 2 cents.
Linksys used to be a fairly small company that made affordable gear that worked. This is why they became very popular. Enter growth and Cisco acquisition, now they are part of a huge company with little concern for the consumer.
I don't really have much bias towards a particular manufacturer. I've used most of it and for the most part, the devices work fine.
I won't get into details, but I had a similar experience with Linksys and have also switched over to Netgear for my own personal network.
Since installing my Netgear WPN802 access point, wireless range and signal strength have been more than double what they were with the two other APs I had tried. One Linksys and one was another brand.
So out of all of them, I'd say I've had the best experience with Netgear's equipment. It has all been "install and forget", meaning it just works. I don't have to reset or reboot any of it, which is how it really should be. | |
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| cornelius785
join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA | i've never had problem (ignoring a small NAT table) with either of my netgears except for when the flash image got corrupted (or maybe just bad setttings), but a simple update fixed it. | |
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iampedro
join:2005-02-12
Houston, TX |  Which Router is Superior?
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| plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY
clubs:
| Re: Which Router is Superior? said by iampedro :Real question is between the WRT54GL and this one which one is Superior.. both use the same hardware | |
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| | iampedro
join:2005-02-12
Houston, TX | Re: Which Router is Superior? Where did you purchase your T-Mobil edition? | |
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punker
deleted by moderator
Premium
join:2004-06-21
Palmdale, CA
clubs: | Re: Which Router is Superior? i get them online but you do have to flash them with jtag | |
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| CMoore2004
i r teh smarts
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Jonesville, MI | Buffalo's router blew me away. It really performs very well and has much better range than the WRT54G. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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Quake110
join:2003-12-20
Ottawa, ON
·Velcom
| I hope the hardware is good... Because with high quality 3rd party firmwares like Tomato or dd-wrt, if the hardware is low quality, then it's not worth it.
I'd rather read the reviews of it before I buy it. Netgear used to be a good company in the customer market like with the RT314. Lately, they've been off their game. | |
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KAD Imaging
Sansei Goju-Ryu Karate Do
Premium
join:2002-09-21
Hialeah, FL | Re: I hope the hardware is good... Well my old MR314 is still running strong! I did have to RMA moy original once but I think my OS tampering may have fried it. The 2nd one has been running for 6+ years.
I hope Netgear hasn't gone to crap in that time. | |
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| switchman
join:1999-11-06
Grand Prairie, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by Quake110 : Netgear used to be a good company in the customer market like with the RT314. Actually, the RT314, wich I have and only quit using 6 months ago, was an OEM from Zyxel. All Netgear would do is take the Zyxel firmware and chop out functionality. What people would do is buy the RT314 as it was 1/2 the price of the Zyxel brand and load the Zyxel firmware. You then had a P314. | |
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TaterTot
@rr.com | Why pick this over a Linksys? This would be great if it was Gigabit\Wireless-N. | |
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SipSizzurp
Jeziss prefers McCain
Premium
join:2005-12-28
Hilo, HI
·RoadRunner Cable
| Fixed Antenna Looks like the external antenna is fixed. If this was designed for the tinkerer, then they had better get a removable antenna on the back of it or the number of people who would never buy it anyway is really going to go up.
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MattE
Obama '08
Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC | Underpowered The WRT54G was underpowered 2 years ago and Netgear is just now getting around to copying it?
Excuse me if I don't stand up. | |
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See 8 replies to this post |
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crooked
join:2000-07-29
Jamestown, NY
| Draft N If they really wanted to win the "tinkerers" money, they would offer an open source router for Draft-N and N. I know DD-WRT and Tomato do not yet support Draft N, but I believe this is due to the lack of hardware that would support them, rather than the lack of will amongst coders. | |
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WRT160N
@comcast.net | Re: Draft N WRT160N 802.11n router is fully supported by the latest DD-WRT | |
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Lazlow
join:2006-08-07
Saint Louis, MO | Dumb This thing is pointed directly at power users (tinkerers) so why use old technology? Power users want GigE and wireless N. If they want gutless old tech they would pick up a used WRT54G (or GL) for a quarter of the money. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
edit:
July 1st, @08:06PM
| Re: Dumb said by Lazlow :This thing is pointed directly at power users (tinkerers) so why use old technology? Power users want GigE and wireless N. If they want gutless old tech they would pick up a used WRT54G (or GL) for a quarter of the money. You got it! That's the main thing I've been waiting for: a WRT54GL with a gigE switch. I really don't care much for 802.11n, but the gigE switch would remove extra hardware in my wiring closet.
I'm quite disappointed by the lack of gigE switch on the WGR614L. Not a wise move in this day and age, if you ask me.
P.S. -- The WGR614L also lacks an external serial port. I really don't know what Netgear was thinking regarding this either. Everyone knows the serial port mod on the WRT series is a pain in the ass (I should know, I wrote one of the howto docs!). Netgear should've just included an EIA-232 or DB9 serial port on the side of the unit. I mean, give me a break... | |
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| | qworster
join:2001-11-25
Los Angeles, CA
·Brand X Internet
·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Vonage
·DSL EXTREME
·EarthLink
| Re: Dumb said by koitsu :said by Lazlow :This thing is pointed directly at power users (tinkerers) so why use old technology? Power users want GigE and wireless N. If they want gutless old tech they would pick up a used WRT54G (or GL) for a quarter of the money. You got it! That's the main thing I've been waiting for: a WRT54GL with a gigE switch. I really don't care much for 802.11n, but the gigE switch would remove extra hardware in my wiring closet. I'm quite disappointed by the lack of gigE switch on the WGR614L. Not a wise move in this day and age, if you ask me. P.S. -- The WGR614L also lacks an external serial port. I really don't know what Netgear was thinking regarding this either. Everyone knows the serial port mod on the WRT series is a pain in the ass (I should know, I wrote one of the howto docs!). Netgear should've just included an EIA-232 or DB9 serial port on the side of the unit. I mean, give me a break... You can telnet into the Netgear router from the WAN port I believe. Netgear has the information on their My Open Router support page. | |
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koitsu
Premium
join:2002-07-16
Mountain View, CA
| Re: Dumb said by qworster :said by koitsu :said by Lazlow :This thing is pointed directly at power users (tinkerers) so why use old technology? Power users want GigE and wireless N. If they want gutless old tech they would pick up a used WRT54G (or GL) for a quarter of the money. You got it! That's the main thing I've been waiting for: a WRT54GL with a gigE switch. I really don't care much for 802.11n, but the gigE switch would remove extra hardware in my wiring closet. I'm quite disappointed by the lack of gigE switch on the WGR614L. Not a wise move in this day and age, if you ask me. P.S. -- The WGR614L also lacks an external serial port. I really don't know what Netgear was thinking regarding this either. Everyone knows the serial port mod on the WRT series is a pain in the ass (I should know, I wrote one of the howto docs!). Netgear should've just included an EIA-232 or DB9 serial port on the side of the unit. I mean, give me a break... You can telnet into the Netgear router from the WAN port I believe. Netgear has the information on their My Open Router support page. What does telnetting into the router have to do with a serial console connection for dealing with kernel panics and debugging? What if the router is ""bricked"" and you need to use the bootprom to TFTP a firmware image? :P | |
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kwayzcat
join:2002-10-22
Chicago, IL
| This router is old news Its been on the market for over a year already as the Buffalo WHR-G125 and more recently the ASUS WL-520GU. It has a Broadcom 5354 chipset running at 240 Mhz. You can already run Tomato or DD-WRT on these routers, however reflashing is not supported by the manufacturer.
I've done some speed tests on my Asus WL-520GU. Tomato will NAT about 36-37 megabits of traffic downstream. DD-WRT only does about 26-27 megabits. The wireless range and sensitivity on this router is great, however I agree we need dual band and a faster CPU given the crowded G spectrum and faster broadband speeds available. | |
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gmlasam
Premium
join:2000-06-14
Sun Valley, CA
clubs:
| WGR614L is Repackaged WGR614 v.8 The WGR614L is actually a repackaged WGR614 v.8. The v.8 and the 614L are the same router. 614L is $20.00 more. I think Linksys did the same with the WRT54GL which is the same router as the WRT54G v.4.
I have a couple of the wgr614v8 running ddwrt.
FYI....Fry's retail store have some older stock v.8 in standard packaging prior to the repackaging to wgr614L for $29.99 as of today, 8-23-08.
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Will QUAKE and play TENNIS for FOOD!! My MAJOR!! | |
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Netgear Offers Open Source WGR614L
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