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New ACLU Data Shows Huge Spike in Domestic Spying
Free of Pesky Warrants or 'Meaningful Accountability'
by Karl Bode 08:51AM Tuesday Oct 02 2012
Using a Freedom of Information Act request, the ACLU has obtained new data from the Justice Department showing a remarkable spike in government spying on American citizens, frequently "without warrants, sufficient oversight, or meaningful accountability." According to the data, more people were subjected to "pen register" and "trap and trace" surveillance (outgoing and incoming data like call times, e-mail headers, excluding actual conversation content) in the past two years than in the entire previous decade.

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The ACLU notes that since these types of taps don't include actual content, the rules governing them are even weaker, so usage has skyrocketed:
quote:
Because these surveillance powers are not used to capture telephone conversations or the bodies of emails, they are classified as “non-content” surveillance tools, as opposed to tools that collect “content,” like wiretaps. This means that the legal standard that law enforcement agencies must meet before using pen registers is lower than it is for wiretaps and other content-collecting technology. Specifically, in order to wiretap an American’s phone, the government must convince a judge that it has sufficient probable cause and that the wiretap is essential to an investigation.

But for a pen register, the government need only submit certification to a court stating that it seeks information relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation. As long as it completes this simple procedural requirement, the government may proceed with pen register or trap and trace surveillance, without any judge considering the merits of the request.
And while a Judge is supposed to sign off on monitoring actual content in phone conversations or e-mails, there's every indication that these rules have been twisted or ignored with the help of large ISPs, who whistleblowers have indicated now dump all data directly into the laps of intelligence agencies. Meanwhile, efforts to impose any kind of responsible oversight on domestic spying is swatted away by law enforcement and government under the dual banners of safety and patriotism.

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pnh102
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So Predictable... No Outrage

As always, there is nary a peep on such things from NBS, CBS, ABS, CNN, the Washington Post, the New York Times, or the other usual suspects because they are in the tank for the current administration.

The way these rackets reported on this during the last administration, you would think there were spies on every street corner.
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clone

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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by pnh102:

The way these rackets reported on this during the last administration, you would think there were spies on every street corner.

Where was the conservative outrage during the last administration to decry the spying?

Of course the media is ignoring it, "their guy" is in office. And as soon as Romney gets elected, the theatre will start again while Fox News will tell us how we're all going to get blown to bits if we don't let the spooks track our every movement and conversation.

And the conservatives who are so "outraged" right now will be right there supporting it. And there, again, is the problem with partisan politics. No one cares that they're getting the screws turned on them as long as "their guy" wins. Sick, really. All of this illegal spying needs to stop, and the only way that will ever happen is if people, humans beings, band together stand up for their rights.

Humans can get things done, "Democrats" and "Republicans" will never be able to, sadly, people only see themselves as one of the latter and not of the former.

pnh102
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2 edits

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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

I agree with you 100% about people who support or oppose a particular policy because their guy does it, but oppose or support a particular policy when the other guy does it (I'm looking at all the anti-Bush, er, war protests that stopped after 01/20/2009 as an example). I'm just complaining about how most media outlets flat out refuse to report anything even remotely critical of the current president.

If 0bama were a Republican, one or more the following things would be screaming headlines every day (in no particular order):

1. The Fast and Furious scandal (another US Border Patrol agent was killed today).
2. The lack of appropriate security at our foreign embassies that contributed to the death of an ambassador (last I checked, killing a foreign ambassador is a de facto act of war).
3. 40+ months of unemployment over 8%.
4. Record numbers of people out of the workforce altogether.
5. Sky high gas prices.
6. Sky high food prices.
7. The brazen skirting of the WARN act with regards to defense contractors and possible layoffs come 01/02/2013.
8. The brazen skirting and ignoring of other laws that the administration doesn't like.
9. The vast expansion of outright domestic spying.
10. National credit downgrade.
11. The active and purposeful suppression of voting by members of our armed forces.

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skeechan
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

You forgot the 2000th soldier killed in Afghanistan...old media threw a party for Bush when it happened in Iraq. Also Kathleen Sebelius violating the Hatch Act...or that 36 members of the President's executive staff owe nearly a million dollars in back taxes.

It's a new scandal every week, recently virtually every day but it goes ignored by old media. They're bought and paid for.

pnh102
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by skeechan:

You forgot the 2000th soldier killed in Afghanistan...old media threw a party for Bush when it happened in Iraq.

That's another thing the media would be reporting on... our seemingly endless war in Afghanistan and the ridiculous rules of engagement that prevent our troops from effectively defending themselves.

Our troops got UBL and he wasn't even in Afghanistan. My own opinion on the war changed 180 degrees after that point (I had supported 0bama's initial extra surge of troops there before we got UBL). I would have praised him if he had announced that effective immediately after killing UBL, we were bringing the troops home because we finished what we had set out to do.
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skeechan
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

Guess it was just another incident of workplace violence.

pnh102
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

Or a bump in the road.

dnoyeB
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We did not set out to kill Osama. We set out to ensure Afganistan was not use to train terrorists. That is what I was told by Bush. He didn't even care about Osama.

Which means we need to civilize Afganistan. Which means we will be there for the next 100 years...
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dnoyeB
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pnh102
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by dnoyeB:

We did not set out to kill Osama. We set out to ensure Afganistan was not use to train terrorists. That is what I was told by Bush. He didn't even care about Osama.

Which means we need to civilize Afganistan. Which means we will be there for the next 100 years...

We'd also be hearing howling from the media if any Republican president continued to bring up his predecessor so often when talking about foreign policy failures so late into his current term.

I think anyone with some basic common sense can see that while we can bring civilization to Afghanistan, it isn't worth a 100 year commitment, or even a commitment to 2024, as outlined by 0bama in a previous speech.
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dnoyeB
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

Ending the Iraq war was easy because we know they did not attack us. No threat will be coming from there.

Ending Afganistan war is politically harder because how to you get the political wind to agree that ending it is "obviously rational?" You need some sort of political position that will guarantee people will not blame you for any new activities deemed to come from Afganistan.

I don't think the next president will end it either.
--
dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16

pnh102
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by dnoyeB:

Ending the Iraq war was easy because we know they did not attack us. No threat will be coming from there.

To be fair, regardless of who won in 2008, our troops would have come home from Iraq, as we were no longer welcome there.

»www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc···/247174/

And I won't blame 0bama if Iraq goes to hell... they chose it. He just gave them what they wanted.
said by dnoyeB:

Ending Afganistan war is politically harder because how to you get the political wind to agree that ending it is "obviously rational?" You need some sort of political position that will guarantee people will not blame you for any new activities deemed to come from Afganistan.

I respectfully disagree. I think most people in the US are tired of Afghanistan, especially many people like me on the conservative side. The general thinking is, we got UBL, we can easily get other individual terrorists, we've been there for over 10 years and Afghanistan doesn't want to evolve into a modern Westernized country, and they won't let our troops fight on our terms... why bother?

Say 0bama did announce a complete withdrawal from Afghanistan after we got UBL. I am certain there would be blowback from the Sean Hannitys of the world, who would be critical of anything 0bama does simply because he is 0bama, but I am also certain that most Americans, including myself, would agree with the decision.
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said by skeechan:

You forgot the 2000th soldier killed in Afghanistan...old media threw a party for Bush when it happened in Iraq. Also Kathleen Sebelius violating the Hatch Act...or that 36 members of the President's executive staff owe nearly a million dollars in back taxes.

It's a new scandal every week, recently virtually every day but it goes ignored by old media. They're bought and paid for.

2000 lives too many wasted on that shit hole country.

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said by clone:

said by pnh102:

The way these rackets reported on this during the last administration, you would think there were spies on every street corner.

Where was the conservative outrage during the last administration to decry the spying?

Where is the liberal outrage during this administration after Obama promised to change the way things are done in Washington?

Time
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

I'm still waiting for CHANGE, but I seem to have depleted my available reserves of HOPE.
CXM_Splicer
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It actually goes on every day... but you won't hear it listening to Hannity. If he is re-elected next month, it wont be because people like what he is doing... it will be because they think Romney will be worse.

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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by CXM_Splicer:

It actually goes on every day... but you won't hear it listening to Hannity. If he is re-elected next month, it wont be because people like what he is doing... it will be because they think Romney will be worse.

How exactly do you know what I listen too? I guess this is another one of those if you aren't for one side you MUSTTTTTTTTTTTTT be for the other partisan bullshit posts?
CXM_Splicer
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

Actually, I have no clue what 'side' you are on... logically, if you don't hear any 'liberal outrage' it is because you listen to/watch shows that don't emphasis it... like Hannity.

One would think that 'those types of shows' would be all to happy to rant about liberal outrage but they know better... they are deathly afraid of the message behind it: People are unhappy with Obama because they expected massive changes from him. Changes that the 'Pro-Corps' don't even want to think about. THAT is what the majority wants and they didn't get it with him.

It sounds like you are not fond of Hannity at all... that puts you up a notch in my book

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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by CXM_Splicer:

It sounds like you are not fond of Hannity at all... that puts you up a notch in my book

Im not fond of any of you partisan hacks, you maroons are destroying this country.
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by NOCTech75:

Im not fond of any of you partisan hacks, you maroons are destroying this country.

Very strange that you would take from my post that I am a 'partisan hack'... as a matter of fact, I plan on voting for a third party candidate. There is plenty of liberal & progressive outrage about Obama, I suspect you don't hear any of it because you bury your head in the sand and believe whatever you want to believe.
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As always, there is nary a peep on such things from NBS, CBS, ABS, CNN, the Washington Post, the New York Times, or the other usual suspects because they are in the tank for the government.

there, fixed it for you. It doesn't matter what party is in the white house, this will continue until the US is a full fledged police state. it started under Clinton, accelerated under Bush and has gone exponential under Obama; it will get worse under whoever is elected next.

we are already a quasi-police state and the rule of law only applies if you aren't part of the elite.

the mainstream print and video news organizations are lap dogs, all of them.

observationc

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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

actually it started with Nixon, and Reagan Bush ( Iran Contra )
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said by pnh102:

As always, there is nary a peep on such things from NBS, CBS, ABS, CNN, the Washington Post, the New York Times, or the other usual suspects because none of their readers cares.

Fixed it for you.

NOCTech75
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If you read the original post you will see this thread is about the networks mentioned, hence that is what is being commented on.
CXM_Splicer
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Re: So Predictable... No Outrage

said by clone:

Where was the conservative outrage during the last administration to decry the spying?

said by NOCTech75:

Where is the liberal outrage during this administration after Obama promised to change the way things are done in Washington?

Strange, your reply there (which is what I replied to) doesn't seem to involve the original post's networks either. How could you possibly expect liberal outrage from Pro-Corp news sources?!?! Perhaps we have found the problem... that you insist on limiting the discussion to 'the networks mentioned'. That is like burying your head in the sand.

I highly recommend abandoning the Pro-Corp news outlets and obtaining your news from alternative sources... try this one:

»www.democracynow.org/

Since you are in such disdain for partisanship, you will be delighted to find out that they are broadcasting the presidential debate tonight but they are including some third party candidates! There is also an interview on the site with George Farah, Founder and Executive Director of Open Debates, discussing how the two primary parties actively exclude third party candidates. Very interesting:

»www.democracynow.org/2012/10/3/a···y_debate
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Dangerous precedent!

Unrestricted tracking is a dangerous precedent because the government can get it wrong from who you call. Say you have a friend that is a member of your computer club and you call them regularly for computer related discussions. The same friend unknown to you is a member of an organization declared by the government a terrorist organization. So the government can use the subterfuge that you are talking to a person that is a member of an organization declared as a terrorist organization, as an excuse to monitor your conversations. Then comes the fishing expeditions. You might suddenly find yourself suddenly the subject of various investigations unrelated to terrorism, such as who you donate money to, your tax returns. etc.

The most clever scumbag using naming names to track his victims social contacts during the Red Scare, that he created, was Republican Senator Joe McCarthy. Now the government can determine your social contacts automatically without a senate investigation.

88615298
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Unless those numbers mean 1000's

then this is hyperbole. 800? That's a huge increase? Ok 800 out of 300 MILLION people. I think my odds are pretty damed good I'm not being spied on.

birdfeedr
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Re: Unless those numbers mean 1000's

said by 88615298:

then this is hyperbole. 800? That's a huge increase? Ok 800 out of 300 MILLION people.

That's email and internet. Go to the original article for the telephone numbers.

Better though, to check the timeline. The spike started in 2009 and has not showed signs of leveling. A reflection of the times we live in.
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
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Well there you have it! Since the odds of them actually violating your rights are so low, then it is OK for them to violate our rights period.

Sarcasm - Screw those that just happen to fall into that very low % of people who get violated. I'm sure they deserved it anyway right?

88615298
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Re: Unless those numbers mean 1000's

said by Skippy25:

Well there you have it! Since the odds of them actually violating your rights are so low, then it is OK for them to violate our rights period.

Sarcasm - Screw those that just happen to fall into that very low % of people who get violated. I'm sure they deserved it anyway right?

and you know those people being looked at are getting their rights violated because...................? What Karl says so?
Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
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Re: Unless those numbers mean 1000's

Because they have information that is, by their expectations, private being looked at without court oversight which is in violation of all of our rights.
CXM_Splicer
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quote:
I think my odds are pretty damed good I'm not being spied on.

Wrong. I have been collecting your posts for months now and am ready to submit my report.
MyDogHsFleas
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A mixture of bluster, hyperbole, and spin

I don't mind the ACLU having an opinion about things, but when they frame opinion and speculation as fact, I call shenanigans.

And you all are buying right into it.

••••••••••

WiseOldBear
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Revolution Needed NOW!

All elected individuals are whores built from pond scum.
All judges are reincarnations of Attila the Hun.
All media are druggers of the masses.
All freedom has been sacrificed to the god of safety.
The only viable state for freedom is anarchy.
Cast off your chains!
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Re: Revolution Needed NOW!

Anarchy is the sweet dream of the man who knows nothing of human nature. Please go have a look at Somalia to see what forms out of it.
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