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New Apple TV Won't Support 4K

As we just got done exploring the state of 4KTV is very much in flux at the moment, given the high cost of sets, the lack of content, and the fact a lot of the standards and equipment that will be necessary for full 4K (whether that's receivers that support full HDMI and HDCP 2.2 or HDR) aren't fully cooked yet. That said, a lot of these moving parts are expected to solidify during the second half of this year, with Netflix leading the industry charge toward the higher resolution content.

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Except Apple apparently won't be coming along for the ride. Anonymous sources tell Buzzfeed that the next-generation of Apple TV won't include support for 4K content when it launches later this year:
quote:
Sources in position to know tell BuzzFeed News that the 4th generation Apple TV will not initially support 4K video — a newer high-definition video resolution that delivers a more detailed, immersive picture. “4K is great, but it’s still in its infancy,” said one source familiar with Apple’s thinking.
It's certainly true that most owners likely won't be jumping on the 4K bandwagon for a few years, so it's not absolutely imperative that Apple rush into the field. After all, receivers with multiple HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 capable ports are only just entering the market, and nobody's rushing to buy sets when 4K transmissions are only a twinkle in most broadcasters' eyes.

On the flip side, Apple prides itself as offering the best of the best (they are offering a 8K iMac soon, after all), and Apple may find itself playing catch up should Roku offer a 4K-compatible Roku 4 later this year. Again, most users won't care -- as 4K is going to be the realm of the bleeding edge audio and videophile for the next few years (and even many of them are waiting on cheaper OLED TV sets before taking the plunge).
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Smith6612
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Smith6612

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If Apple is smart...

The hardware support will likely be there, however Apple might have to release a software update to unlock the ability to display 4k content.

Apple does have the tendency to delay features at weird intervals, though. At some cases they are cutting edge and push the competitors to redesign their products. In other cases like this.... what?

SimbaSeven
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SimbaSeven

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Re: If Apple is smart...

said by Smith6612:

The hardware support will likely be there, however Apple might have to release a software update to unlock the ability to display 4k content.

Why do that when the suckers, I mean users, will just buy the next edition when it comes out?

djrobx
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join:2000-05-31
Reno, NV

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djrobx to Smith6612

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to Smith6612

Apple does have the tendency to delay features at weird intervals, though. At some cases they are cutting edge and push the competitors to redesign their products. In other cases like this.... what?

Not always. They're usually conservative with hardware if they feel the masses don't really need it yet or it hasn't been fully baked. For example, the original iPhone had an EDGE radio despite many earlier phones having 3G models. They claimed 3G radios at the time were too power hungry.
BiggA
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Central CT

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BiggA

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Re: If Apple is smart...

Yeah, exactly that was what I first thought of too when I saw this one. They will wait until the kinks are ironed out and then jump in when it's ready. They did the same thing with the 3G to LTE transition, especially on Verizon.
Chubbysumo
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to Smith6612
said by Smith6612:

The hardware support will likely be there, however Apple might have to release a software update to unlock the ability to display 4k content.

Apple does have the tendency to delay features at weird intervals, though. At some cases they are cutting edge and push the competitors to redesign their products. In other cases like this.... what?

its actually pretty typical apple. release a product missing a key feature, and in a year, release a new version with that "missing" feature. The sheep just buy it again. Time and time again, apple has done this, and people still fall for it, and still don't see it.

empire5
join:2002-07-31
Rosharon, TX

empire5

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Re: If Apple is smart...

X10000
46436203 (banned)
join:2013-01-03

46436203 (banned)

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Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

Have you ever tried to watch a 1080p iTunes video? The quality is pathetic.

Despite being twice the resolution of 720p, Apple gives it just a 1 Mbps higher bitrate than they give to their 720p videos on iTunes.

This results in such excessive bitrate starvation that 1080p videos on iTunes don't contain any 1080p detail unless it is something that can get away with severe bitrate starvation, like simple hand-drawn animation. Animated shows are the only things on iTunes that are actually 1080p quality.

Many of the 720p versions of shows on iTunes are superior to the 1080p versions because being half the resolution of 1080p, 720p can be safely encoded at lower bitrates with less detail loss than 1080p will have when encoded at a lower bitrate.

I used to shit on Netflix but quite frankly they've bumped up the bitrates high enough on their 1080p content with their whole "Super HD" gimmick and their 4K streams that Netflix is no longer bottom-of-the-barrel in the picture quality department. If you've ever seen The Blacklist running in 4K off of Netflix on a 4K TV, you'd be impressed. It's the best looking 4K demo content around and considerably better than Blu-ray quality. I never thought I would see the day when streaming Internet video was able to beat Blu-ray, but Netflix has accomplished it with their 4K streams, while Apple flounders about with their bitrate-starved trash on iTunes that doesn't even come close to matching Blu-ray's picture quality. The Blu-ray format is now almost ten years old, having launched in 2006, by the way.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

Re: Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

UHD Streaming might be better than 1080 BluRay. Depending on the selection. But it is still encoded at 40mbps for 1080p. However, wait until UHD BluRays come out later this year. I bet you will be singing another tune, then. They will be encoded the upper end of 128mpbs. Also using 4:4:4 chroma subsampling.
biochemistry
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join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Re: Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

UHD Bluray doesn't use 4:4:4.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

Re: Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

Yes it does, Look it up.

Here are just two links. But there are many more out there saying the same.

»hdguru.com/ultra-hd-blu- ··· e-way-2/

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bl ··· ray_Disc
biochemistry
Premium Member
join:2003-05-09
92361

biochemistry

Premium Member

Re: Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

The HD Guru article is a little confusing.
Interestingly, the Blu-ray spec. also calls for 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, Schinasi confirmed. This is used in the AVCHD compression standard as well as in version 1 of the newer HEVC standard. However, the second version of HEVC was approved last year and published in recent weeks including range extensions supporting higher bit depths with 4:0:0, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 chroma subsampling formats, scalable coding extensions and multi-view extensions. Current version 1 decoders will not handle higher chroma subsampling bitstreams. Some argue that 4:2:0 chroma subsampling loses data and adds image noise compared to the 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 approaches, (the latter of which is found in professional video cameras), which also should be included for the sake of forward compatibility. The BDA said the primary reason for selecting 4:2:0 subsampling was data savings and ease of compression, which allow for longer content to be stored on the disc media.

Says the Bluray spec calls 4:2:0 but that a newer HEVC version uses 4:4:4. So did they change their spec to match or are they sticking with 4:2:0?

aaronwt
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aaronwt to webcobbler

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to webcobbler
said by webcobbler:

UHD Streaming might be better than 1080 BluRay. Depending on the selection. But it is still encoded at 40mbps for 1080p. However, wait until UHD BluRays come out later this year. I bet you will be singing another tune, then. They will be encoded the upper end of 128mpbs. Also using 4:4:4 chroma subsampling.

There will be no need to use such a high bitrate for UHD content. Especially with the content encoded with H.265(HEVC). That 128Mb/s rate is the max data rate for a triple layer, 99GB disc. And the max data rate for a 66GB, dual layer, disc will be 108Mb/s. But just like current BDs that rarely use the max bitrates, I don't see why they would max the bitrate for a UHD BD either. I guess only time will tell what they come out with. AS it is to even play the content will require a compatible receiver and Tv along with the UHD player. I know I don't plan on upgrading my Deon 4520 receiver I got last year for at least a couple of years. If the UHD BD format has actually taken off by then, I will consider getting it.
webcobbler
join:2013-03-09
Rumson, NJ

webcobbler

Member

Re: Apple TV doesn't even support 1080p video.

If anything, maybe that 128mbps bitrate on the 100GB disks is to leave room for a Future UHD 3D spec. I am just guessing on that one, though. Using up about twice the data (just like the 3D BluRays of today). I can see that happening. 4k animation in 3D would be cool, IMO. 1080p in each eye. And also possible Auto stereoscopic as well.
Qreptiles
join:2005-07-20
Grants Pass, OR

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Qreptiles

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this shouldn't suprise anyone

Apple very rarely tries to be cutting edge on their specs. So this shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that watches them.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

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smk11

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First roku and now apple; nobody is demanding 4k anytime soon.

Who cares? 4k is going to be expensive and adoption very weak for quite some time. Consumers may likely even skip it for 5/6/8K video. Can we get back to items that matter like h.265?
nonymous (banned)
join:2003-09-08
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nonymous (banned)

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Re: First roku and now apple; nobody is demanding 4k anytime soon.

said by smk11:

Who cares? 4k is going to be expensive and adoption very weak for quite some time. Consumers may likely even skip it for 5/6/8K video. Can we get back to items that matter like h.265?

The TV manufacturers are not skipping it. OLED is supposedly harder to manufacture than a 4k TV. Why no 4k plasma. But unless a super large TV or AIT real close 4k will be good for awhile. How many still buy. A buy a TV at Walmart.
smk11
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smk11

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Re: First roku and now apple; nobody is demanding 4k anytime soon.

said by nonymous See Profile...
The TV manufacturers are not skipping it. OLED is supposedly harder to manufacture than a 4k TV. Why no 4k plasma. But unless a super large TV or AIT real close 4k will be good for awhile. How many still buy. A buy a TV at Walmart.
[/bquote :

They won't skip any features to help sell widgets. Doesn't mean consumers will adopt it. Remember 3DTV?


CapCosts4k
@comcast.net

CapCosts4k to smk11

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to smk11

RRe: First roku and now apple; nobody is demanding 4k anytime soon.

And capped Internet connections would get very costly, very quickly if carrying 4k content due to overage charges.

trparky
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Cleveland, OH

trparky

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It doesn't help that 4K is a mess...

It doesn't help that the industry still hasn't settled upon a 4K standard. See the following thread...
»4KTV Standards Are A Mess, and Only 41% Even Know What 4K Is

DOStradamus
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join:2003-11-04
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DOStradamus

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8K iMac ?!

An 8K Apple II was rather "stripper", IMHO... Where is tech going nowadays?

Flyonthewall
@teksavvy.com

Flyonthewall

Anon

At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Remember Beta? Didn't fly too well and died a slow death. I think some of these new tv innovations like 4k and UHDVTV are also going to be faddish. Your eyes really can't see the difference unless you are parked 1 ft from the set. If this is just some way to justify increases in tv bills, give it a rest. I just finished buying a 3D plasma and 3D LCD TV; I'm not even considering replacement until those die, and I expect that will be years from now. I don't think these guys think their marketing through very well. And the caps on broadband aren't going to allow streaming at all at those qualities, either here in Canada or the US unless you pay for Unlimited, if it's even available, and at a high speed, also if available.

Dead tech, stalled on the runway.
biochemistry
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biochemistry

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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Wrong. UHD Blurays are more than just a resolution increase and they will look better from any distance.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11

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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

said by biochemistry:

Wrong. UHD Blurays are more than just a resolution increase and they will look better from any distance.

What's a bluray?
Kearnstd
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Kearnstd

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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Optical data storage format commonly used for HD video. Most popularly was its tie in to the PlayStation 3.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
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battleop to Flyonthewall

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to Flyonthewall
"Remember Beta? Didn't fly too well and died a slow death"

Beta was a much higher quality than VHS and was widely used in the broadcast industry. It hardly died a slow death.

chuch
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL

chuch

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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Yup - Except they were typically called 3/4 inch because of the "Betamax" stigma...
OldCableGuy (banned)
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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Uh, BetamaxSP (what is used in broadcast) was 1/2 tape. 3/4 inch was something else all together called U-Max

chuch
join:2001-04-11
Tampa, FL

chuch

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Re: At some point I expect all these TV enhancements to reach critical mass

Thanks for the clarification
OldCableGuy (banned)
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to battleop
BetamaxSP was used in broadcast, not the consumer version of Beta. Big difference. Consumer version of beta was a flop.
bigboy
join:2000-12-04
Palo Alto, CA

bigboy

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"Apple prides itself as offering the best of the best "

No it actually doesn't. It prides itself at offering the technology at the right time (right price and and maturity) in a way that consumers will like it. Remember the original iPhone? It was only 2G....

Not "best of the best."

alchav
join:2002-05-17
Saint George, UT

alchav

Member

They need to Resurect Steve Jobs!

Apple doesn't know what to do without their Master, they have been going down hill since Steve. It seems that no one else in that Company knows what to do. Dick Tracy Watch, give me a break! 4K and 8K TV and Video is coming, and it's all going to be Streaming so Providers just have to catch up. Like I said, this is all going to happen with Fiber and Structured Wiring in the Home.

neill6705
join:2014-08-09

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neill6705

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Still don't get why people buy these.

And that goes for Roku, Chromecast, Fire TV, etc. Just buy an Intel NUC or some similar small computer. You can stream all web services like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, or whatever and you will never have to worry about your device not supporting the next big thing. You can stream pretty much any video out there in VLC. You can browse file shares without any trouble. I know it costs $100 or $200 extra, but you can do so much more.

•••

camper
just visiting this planet
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camper

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Probably due to the under-powered nature of AppleTV

Apple has put the bare minimum CPU capability in the AppleTV.

The CPU seems to just barely be able to keep up with the current crop of video it supports. 1080 support is a recent addition.

It's been only the most recent generation of AppleTV that has been able to play 96/24 audio without stuttering. (notice I said "play" not "output", the output is still 48/16)

The demand for 4k TV was not enough for Apple to design in a more powerful processor in the next generation AppleTV.

Apple has been a laggard, not a leader, with formats in the AppleTV.

This way, Apple can make all those who buy now, upgrade in the future.
smk11
join:2014-11-12

smk11

Member

Re: Probably due to the under-powered nature of AppleTV

said by camper:

Apple has put the bare minimum CPU capability in the AppleTV.

The CPU seems to just barely be able to keep up with the current crop of video it supports. 1080 support is a recent addition.

It's been only the most recent generation of AppleTV that has been able to play 96/24 audio without stuttering. (notice I said "play" not "output", the output is still 48/16)

The demand for 4k TV was not enough for Apple to design in a more powerful processor in the next generation AppleTV.

Apple has been a laggard, not a leader, with formats in the AppleTV.

This way, Apple can make all those who buy now, upgrade in the future.

The fastest and latest ARM SoC will be going into ARM powered imac "desktops" real soon. The reject from that or cheap tablet SoC will be going into the "apple tv" units. No reason to give bleeding edge features with no premium.