New Bill: Fiber Conduit Must Be Laid With Highways - Anna Eshoo's Broadband Conduit Deployment Act

New Bill: Fiber Conduit Must Be Laid With Highways
Anna Eshoo's Broadband Conduit Deployment Act
12:55PM Tuesday May 19 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · coverage · business · hardware · legislation

Palo Alto Representative Anna G. Eshoo unveiled a bill last week that's slightly different from the standard fare though probably a decade or two too late. Eshoo's Broadband Conduit Deployment Act would require that new fiber conduit banks be installed automatically as part of any Federal highway projects moving forward. The Department of Transportation would waive the requirement where necessary and work with the FCC to determine need. Says Eshoo:

"According to industry experts, more than half of the cost of new broadband deployment is attributable to the expense of tearing up and repaving roads," said Rep. Eshoo. "By putting the broadband conduit in place while the ground beneath the roadways is exposed, we will enable any authorized communications provider to come in later and install fiber-optic cable at far less cost."

If you've been playing along at home, you know that the government has assigned $300 million to map broadband deployment, something the FCC hasn't been particularly good at. The Government is also cooking up a much larger plan -- to be unveiled this fall -- that takes aim at rural broadband shortcomings.

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Forums » New Bill: Fiber Conduit Must Be Laid With Highways


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screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR ·Verizon Wireless B.. ·Alltel Axess	Little too late This is coming a little too late considering most major freeway's are already being worked on... I know there are some out there that aren't but alot are, they are not going to "move back" on the freeway and install conduit if they are 5 miles from being completed.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 11:45:19 ·

cableties Premium join:2005-01-27 ·Verizon FIOS	Re: Little too late Yep. I always wondered why the utilities companies would dig up the freshly paved roads. It's not like the road work wasn't on the books for years. It's almost like the utility folks should be fined for any tear-up AFTER. Oh, did I type that? -- Weeeeeeee!
	permalink · 2009-05-19 11:52:47 ·

screavic Premium join:2006-08-11 Paron, AR ·Verizon Wireless B.. ·Alltel Axess	Re: Little too late Our water company does BORING only, I know it's expensive, but it saves the roads which in turn in the long run saves our tax dollars. Maybe the more companies would bore under the roads the more "startups" would come along which in turn would encourage competition and then make it cheaper
	permalink · 2009-05-19 11:55:27 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	said by cableties : Yep. I always wondered why the utilities companies would dig up the freshly paved roads. It's not like the road work wasn't on the books for years. It's almost like the utility folks should be fined for any tear-up AFTER. Oh, did I type that? »www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/permit···st.shtml New York City does.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:33:13 · Print ·

BF69

join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN

said by screavic

:

This is coming a little too late considering most major freeway's are already being worked on...

roads ALWAYS need repair. Hell I remember living in Illinois where it seems the same stretch of roads were ALWAYS being repaired. Well technically I never saw any work being done. Just one guy in a ditch and 4 others looking at him and another guy in com construction vehicle smoking a cigarette.

permalink · 2009-05-19 12:00:36 · Print ·

screavic
Premium
join:2006-08-11
Paron, AR

·Verizon Wireless B..

·Alltel Axess

Re: Little too late

I know they need repairs all the time, they just redid one of our worst freeways here and it's already needs some repairs no major ones that require an "overhaul" yet though. I guess these don't matter anyways since companies like Level 3 already have fiber running down them according to their maps.

My luck they would be repairing the road and then cut the fiber and never knew it

permalink · 2009-05-19 12:03:13 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	said by BF69 : roads ALWAYS need repair. Hell I remember living in Illinois where it seems the same stretch of roads were ALWAYS being repaired. Well technically I never saw any work being done. Just one guy in a ditch and 4 others looking at him and another guy in com construction vehicle smoking a cigarette. Either thats Union labor or Uncle Tony's Construction Company.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:36:06 · Print ·

brianl703 join:2004-02-26 Manassas, VA	Re: Little too late quote: Either thats Union labor or Uncle Tony's Construction Company. The crooked construction company in Illinois was Palumbo Construction. "The Earth Moves with Palumbo" Do a Google search on Palumbo Construction and read all about it.
	permalink · 2009-05-22 11:32:30 ·

hottboiinnc ME join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH ·Time Warner Cable ·buckeye cable	Roads always need repair because of their either being dug up all the time or the states and counties are using cheap ass asphalt instead of concerate like they should. If they used concerate they wouldn't have to go back in the spring and "patch" them and then do it again in a few weeks after a major rain storm comes along and knocks the patch right out.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 18:28:53 ·

jester121 join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL ·surpasshosting ·ViaTalk	Re: Little too late Concrete isn't magic -- you're in Ohio, same weather as Illinois basically. When they lay down concrete they have to place seams to allow for expansion/contraction with temp changes, and when water gets in there it freezes and heaves the pavement. Plows and trucks drive over it, breack off the edge, and you have potholes.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 19:28:04 ·

hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

·Time Warner Cable

·buckeye cable

Re: Little too late

I know how using concrete works. The thing is though Michigan uses it on their freeways and it works fine. They don't do anything to it and it lasts for years!

The rest of the Midwest states could do the same and be done with it.

The thing is though it seems like toooooo many people think about how much its costing now verse how much the project will cost in the long run. Why spend more out over a period of a few years verse spending the money now and forgetting about it and putting the "repair" budget funds on another road for a change. That's the problem the USDOT and many state DOTs have...

Everyone is toooo short sided for anything to really work.

permalink · 2009-05-19 19:41:39 · Print ·

jester121 join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL ·surpasshosting ·ViaTalk	Re: Little too late I guess Michigan was bound to get something right eventually. Stop out in the Chicago burbs some time and you'll see what concrete roads look like after 1 winter. Better than asphalt, sure, but still in rouch shape. That may be a special "Italian" blend we use here though.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 19:45:19 ·

hottboiinnc ME join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH 1 edit	Re: Little too late LOL @ Mi. But they've had that for at least 8 years now. But also concerete is also easier to patch.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 22:41:59 ·

Cthen

join:2004-08-01
Ypsilanti, MI

·Comcast

said by jester121

:

I guess Michigan was bound to get something right eventually.

You would think so after the mistakes they have made, but no. What the other poster failed to mention is that this year, all concrete projects are still being redone from the year before. Not only does this mean the roadways but it also means every bridge too.

The year before all the contractors this state hired to rework the bridges and roadways used the wrong type of concrete. It was inferior (more like cheaper for the contractors) for what they were using it for and had to be redone as pieces of the bridges were falling onto motorists vehicles as they passed under less than a month after the projects were completed.

You would think they would have held the contractors responsible for it but nope, they didn't do that either. They got money from the federal level instead, hired the same contractors, and pretty much paid them again to do the same job they should have got right in the first place. Of course this would have all been prevented had the state inspected the work as the projects moved along, but no, they decided to do that after people driving under the bridges got hurt.

So, what did this state get right again?

--
"I like to refer to myself as an Adult Film Efficienato." - Stuart Bondek

permalink · 2009-05-19 23:16:16 · Print ·

KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK	You've never seen roadwork being done, eh?
	permalink · 2009-05-20 01:14:37 ·

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

1 edit

From what I read on face value, Its a totally silly 'cute' bill being put out there which will not do anything good except raise the cost of building roads....

I'd love to read the exact bill word for word, to be honest.

Look at LA.. why in the world would all the "federal highways" need fiber run "with them"... doesn't really make sense to me. There WILL be freeways that are built where fiber isn't needed, nor likely ever will be needed, and the bill would only add millions to a project...

It's a good "thought" but writing laws out of emotion with out thoughts or any kind of break out clause, etc, is just bad bill writing.

This isn't the right way to do it.. if you want to deploy broadband, and you want a law that pushes that requirement, then write a law that does just that.. but, to attach an ambiguous law that says all federal highways HAVE to have fiber conduit is ridiculous.

Simply pass a law that addresses broadband in general.. and, I don't think that this is an "any single rep" issue, rather, a national broadband plan or communications bill anyway..

Don't these "parties" ever come together on these things? or is everyone out there throwing out ideas just to see what sticks anymore?

By the way.. this coming from Palo Alto, which if I'm correct, and I am, is in California.. (for disclosure, my home state of 28 years) .. a state that can't get its own act together financially, and really ever can with out shutting itself down to do so.. this is coming from a state that doesn't care or think twice about spending money.. even money it doesn't have.

Sorry, call me grouchy about this one, but there's a reason I left the state of CA and it wasn't becuase of the over abundance of sunshine either. (Funny, off topic, but, even after I leave that state, I wake up today hearing that the rest of us will get to pay for all those wonderful programs that CA can't get under control. I'll go to bed at night sleeping better knowing that my money made in MN will go to help a drug user in CA get a clean needle)

Just seems that CA should stop trying to find more ways to spend money right about now.. broadband or not.

permalink · 2009-05-19 13:05:16 · Print ·

Skippy25 join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO	Re: Little too late said by fiberguy : and the bill would only add millions to a project... Really, Conduit along the way would add millions? You using gold plated conduit or something?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:21:17 ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Little too late

said by Skippy25

said by fiberguy

:

and the bill would only add millions to a project...

Really, Conduit along the way would add millions?

You using gold plated conduit or something?

The road will already have conduit for the lights, seismology equipment, car counters, CCTVs, police radio repeaters, and State DOT fiber optic network for those "slow traffic next 5 miles" signs. Why not include extra conduit and ducts for discount backbone companies like Cogent to get more access to rural/suburban areas outside the ILEC?

permalink · 2009-05-19 14:39:18 · Print ·

hottboiinnc ME join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH	Re: Little too late very true. and just laying conduit and leaving it empty until people move in is cheap. Hell the states and the feds would prolly make out on the deal as they'd lease space to the fiber owners.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 18:38:28 ·

fiberguy My views are my own. Premium join:2005-05-20	Sure... so long as the companies that want to use that conduit pay back any related cost to installing it. I'm not a socialist so I'm sorry if I don't believe in tax payers footing bills for other entities that are getting benefit from it with out a return to the people that funded it.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 19:31:38 ·

fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20

1 edit

.. in some projects, you better believe it. I'm guessing you don't have any experience in job costing for major construction, do you? Depending on the project, it can sure enough add up quickly.

They don't just simply "drop another conduit" in the hole.. and the guys doing the job aren't always billed out by the hour.. so they don't simply grab a second piece of conduit and drop it in the trench.. many, if not most, jobs are priced out by a method called 'piece rate'..

I'm going going to go into a discussion on job costing but it isn't cheap..

permalink · 2009-05-19 19:32:28 · Print ·

ashworth join:2001-10-06 Pittsburgh, PA ·Verizon Online DSL	Too little too late is an understatement, who was the engineering genious that didn't provide for future upgrades(leave some room for additional cables- be it copper or fiber). This is an example of poor planning and government will. Maybe they'll get some stimulus money ??
	permalink · 2009-05-19 23:32:28 ·

dforan join:2000-12-09 Willoughby, OH ·RoadRunner Cable	said by screavic : This is coming a little too late considering most major freeway's are already being worked on... Here in the north east due to weather and some shoddy workmanship they are dug up every couple of years. And some are under perpetual construction
	permalink · 2009-05-22 09:30:35 ·

squirrel83 cheers join:2005-05-02 Missoula, MT	belive it when i see it ! awesome now there in a concept! This should help rural internet grow greatly not to mention the infrastructure. Ahh the possibilities competition in some markets would grow immensely
	permalink · 2009-05-19 11:56:23 ·

me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO	Re: belive it when i see it ! It would be cool, wouldn't it.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:03:24 ·

Sammer join:2005-12-22 Canonsburg, PA	One problem with the idea is many of the roads (especially "last mile") are state or local. Unless the federal government is willing to provide funding to the states this just sound like another unfunded mandate.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:13:02 ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

said by squirrel83

:

awesome now there in a concept! This should help rural internet grow greatly not to mention the infrastructure. Ahh the possibilities competition in some markets would grow immensely

No it won't. This simply give CLECs/Tier 2s the likes of Cogent, XO, AboveNet, TW Telecom access to suburban and rural areas, to cheapen the costs of T3s and OC-12/48s. The last mile local loop from the CO to the customer will still be an ILEC fiber loop.

ALL CENTRAL OFFICES HAVE FIBER OR MW IN 2009. No ILEC runs their network off analog coaxial trunk lines. But the ILEC will charge you a kings ransom for CO to CO/inter-CO fiber optic loops, this locks CLECs out of rural and exurban areas and even if the CLEC co-located at the CO, the CLEC would never make any money because of the cost to get out of the CO to somewhere upstream.

Anyone who thinks that ANY of this fiber will ever directly go to any customer's, business or residential, premise is drinking the koolaid. This is POP to POP/CO to CO fiber only. It will create telco independent POPs in rural/exurban areas, and allow business grade with SLA customers to get cheaper internet. This will have ZERO, absolutely ZERO effect for any residential customers regarding broadband availability. The only way this can help residential customers is, that Covad might come to their CO (whereas before Covad wasn't available regardless of distance at their CO because Covad has no equipment there) and then they have an ISP give them non-ILEC ADSL through Covad's DSLAM and Covad's backbone.

I've never heard of someone qualifying for Covad, yet not having ILEC DSL available.

This might also lower the price on some middle of nowhere small telcos who charge $150 a month for 1mbit DSL, if covad comes by and installs a DSLAM in the CO as a CLEC then uses interstate highway fiber to backbone to the POP/NOC.

permalink · 2009-05-19 14:55:15 · Print ·

hottboiinnc ME join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH ·Time Warner Cable ·buckeye cable	Re: belive it when i see it ! I don't even see Covad helping any residential customer. They're services are way over priced. Even Speakeasy's services are overpriced. Especially when you can get the same thing from other providers cheaper! Even their own 3rd party ISPs have it cheaper!
	permalink · 2009-05-19 22:46:30 ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: belive it when i see it !

said by hottboiinnc

:

I don't even see Covad helping any residential customer.

Most 3rd DSL is Covad. DSL Extreme and Earthlink are Covad resellars. I don't know of any other CLECs who resell their DSL service other than Covad, MCI discontinued their ADSL operations many years ago.

They're services are way over priced. Even Speakeasy's services are overpriced. Especially when you can get the same thing from other providers cheaper! Even their own 3rd party ISPs have it cheaper!

Usually they are competitive with a T1. And they are overpriced since they have massive loop fees that the ILECs don't collect from you.

permalink · 2009-05-19 23:48:19 · Print ·

mod_wastrel join:2008-03-28	Next up... the Broadband Conduit Tax Act.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:03:40 ·

See 8 replies to this post

Bit Premium join:2009-02-19 00000 ·VOIPo ·Cox HSI	Makes sense to me, installing conduit It's not like they're laying the actual fiber, just making it easier to install it later. It isn't extraordinarily expensive and nothing quite as frustrating as having a new highway torn up and funneling traffic to 1 lane for 3 months. -- POKE 65495,1
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:14:05 ·

See 30 replies to this post

IPTVdave join:2007-12-26 Roseville, CA ·SureWest Internet	any authorized communications provider? "any authorized communications provider" Scarry. Our tax dollars, Big brothers conduit. Who's gets to be authorized? What hoops do you have to go through. Can the local isp but fiber in it? Or is it free conduit for Ma Bell? LOOP HOLE alert! I like the 'idea' it makes sence. Just seems fishy.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:15:19 ·

me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO	Re: any authorized communications provider? I hope ANY ISP can, if not I will not support this.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 12:35:16 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	Re: any authorized communications provider? said by me1212 : I hope ANY ISP can, if not I will not support this. Say what you want but you have no voice, its a 2 party system, either way they win.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:10:04 ·

me1212 join:2008-11-20 Pleasant Hill, MO	Re: any authorized communications provider? I know, but I do not like it. I hope it turns out ok.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:25:50 ·

hottboiinnc ME join:2003-10-15 Cleveland, OH	ATT would be the only one. Or VZ if they wanted the area. Otherwise nobody else funnels data and voice records to the Gov't so why should they get anything?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 22:48:47 ·

AVonGauss
Premium,MVM
join:2007-11-01
Boynton Beach, FL

Intent...

While I think the intent of this bill is generally in the right direction, I'm not sure that it is solving a real problem. My understanding is that laying fiber between cities is "comparatively" cheap to laying fiber or other types of runs inside of the city or county. Besides, isn't most of the rural fiber runs along the highway vs under the highway? For sections of road that need to be crossed occasionally, boring would make more sense.

permalink · 2009-05-19 12:53:50 ·

RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 ·AT&T Midwest	Re: Intent... Much of it follows railroad rights-of-way since they tend to be shorter routes, aren't torn up every five years and arrive in the center of cities. I wonder how this works when the roads are re-done and all that fiber duct is hacked to shreds...?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 13:19:43 ·

cornelius785 join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA	Re: Intent... uh.... not sure on how they plan to play the conduit, but you DO realize that many roads have: sewer (storm and/or waste water), water, and gas lines, right?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:13:39 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	said by RadioDoc : I wonder how this works when the roads are re-done and all that fiber duct is hacked to shreds...? Metal detector and/or underground utility tracer »www.metrotech.com/Uploads/products/810.pdf You paint it/survey it, road work contractor that damages it, pays for repairs, end of story.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:15:02 · Print ·

cooperaaaron join:2004-04-10 Joliet, IL	Putting the fiber on poles ? couldn't be more expensive than laying them under the roads, could it ?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 13:01:35 ·

cornelius785 join:2006-10-26 Worcester, MA	Re: Putting the fiber on poles ? so what do you do when there are no poles around?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:14:53 ·

cooperaaaron join:2004-04-10 Joliet, IL	Re: Putting the fiber on poles ? Put your own up or bury them.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 17:40:19 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	said by cooperaaaron : couldn't be more expensive than laying them under the roads, could it ? Poles can have psychotic rental fees, it might be cheaper to bury it once than to pay $20 a pole per year forever.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:16:01 ·

jmkraft
Essayons
Premium
join:2002-04-11
Paris, IL

·Packet8

Doesn't work now, won't work later...

I have fiber 50 feet from my property line and still can get nothing but dial-up, or the crappy wireless service I am on. The factories 7/8ths of a mile from me are connected, but nothing for the homeowners...Just because the conduit is there or the fiber is there, doesn't mean they will put it to use where it is needed/wanted.
--
-----
GraVT Core 2 Duo, RT-X2, Westinghouse LVM-37W3, Prod. Studio Prem. CS3, Epson R-380, GL2, VX2100, FS-4HD

permalink · 2009-05-19 13:29:22 ·

Bob61571 join:2008-08-08 Washington, IL	Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later... Similar, but not as bad here. The old Williams installed fiber back in 2001/2002, one-quarter mile away from here. Now, it's Level 3's fiber. Broadband choices are Verizon 3.0 Mbps DSL, or Comcast.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:12:05 ·

patcat88 join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY	Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later... said by Bob61571 : Similar, but not as bad here. The old Williams installed fiber back in 2001/2002, one-quarter mile away from here. Now, it's Level 3's fiber. Broadband choices are Verizon 3.0 Mbps DSL, or Comcast. If you have a million $ lying around you can get Level 3 SONET service.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:16:52 ·

espaeth Digital Plumber Premium,MVM join:2001-04-21 Minneapolis, MN ·voip.ms ·Vitelity VOIP ·Callcentric ·VoiceStick ·ViaTalk ·Comcast ·Embarq	Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later... said by patcat88 : If you have a million $ lying around you can get Level 3 SONET service. Level(3) is doing SoNET service in some area for 10s of thousands now. Granted, for most customers that might as well be a $ million price tag.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 18:53:44 ·

Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX

A lot of fiber runs are for commercial developments, as you have described. Normally, a business enterprise will want numerous DS-1 circuits, and/or some number of DS-3 circuits which make it economical to place a fiber optic multiplexer on the customer's premise. Placing a multiplexer on premise is significantly less expense than an RT.

Not knowing the population density, I can't really comment on whether it would be economically feasible to place an RT to serve the surrounding residential market. That equipment is usually in the range $150,000 to $250,000 for the equipment.

permalink · 2009-05-19 15:17:59 · Print ·

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

·Comcast

Silly

This is a stupid idea. Most federally funded highways do not pass peoples' houses as they are expressways or other arterial routes. Private companies already have no problems laying long haul fiber lines along their own corridors, which they may already lease from state highway or toll agencies.

I don't see why the government needs to mandate anything here. Most private companies that run fiber to the home already make use of conduit tubes without the need to be told to do so by the government.
--
Blagojevich / Madoff 2012!

permalink · 2009-05-19 13:52:24 · Print ·

DaveNJ No Fear join:1999-09-01 New Jersey ·Comcast ·Patriot Media	Re: Silly I agree this is a stupid idea, plus who is going to pay for the fiber, and who is going to determine what type of fiber ? This is just a hippie feel good bill. Has any company had any problem getting fiber cross county ? Most natural gas ways, have fiber runs with them, and so do train tracks. This is just a waste of time.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 15:37:38 ·

bjbrock join:2002-10-28 Mcalester, OK	I think the government should go one step further and nationalize the whole broadband infrastructure. This might just be the first step.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 16:47:22 ·

jay_rm join:2002-04-12 Netville ·Fox Valley Internet ·ViaTalk	Re: Silly said by bjbrock : I think the government should go one step further and nationalize the whole broadband infrastructure. This might just be the first step. Oh yeah... Your Internet, brought to you by Your Government. I'm sure THAT will work out well... -- 3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net 'It looks just like a Telefunken U47 !'
	permalink · 2009-05-19 18:53:25 · Print ·

John Galt Forward, March Premium join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp ·CenturyLink 1 edit	Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...? A bit OT... What gear is needed to break out from a long-haul POP? In other words, what equipment is necessary to "tap" the fiber for local distribution? I do understand that there are substantial costs and equipment requirements... -- A is A
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:01:19 ·

patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY

Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...?

said by John Galt

:

A bit OT...

What gear is needed to break out from a long-haul POP?

In other words, what equipment is necessary to "tap" the fiber for local distribution?

I do understand that there are substantial costs and equipment requirements...

This is the make it cheaper for the likes of Cogent and Covad to reach rural/exurban COs, and not rely on per mile per month ILEC inter CO loops.

permalink · 2009-05-19 15:18:56 · Print ·

Austinloop

join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX

John, to answer your questions about the necessary equipment, at a POP, or CO, would be a ADM multiplexer pluck the DS-x or OC-x from the main fiber, given a very high OC rate for a main fiber, this quite expensive and depending on the configuration, only a portion of costs of that equipment might be charged to the "tap". To send the DS-x or OC-x data stream to the field would require two other ADM multiplexers, one at the POP/CO and another at the customer/RT location. Probably 100K plus for equipment and the cost of any local fiber to get to where ever.

permalink · 2009-05-19 15:58:32 · Print ·

John Galt Forward, March Premium join:2004-09-30 Happy Camp ·CenturyLink	Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...? said by Austinloop : John, to answer your questions about the necessary equipment, at a POP, or CO, would be a ADM multiplexer pluck the DS-x or OC-x from the main fiber... Can you suggest a (system) manufacturer...? -- A is A
	permalink · 2009-05-20 00:40:33 ·

Austinloop join:2001-08-19 Austin, TX	Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...? Fujitsu, Cisco, NorTel (though with their previous financial problems, I'd be leary) to name a few. I have had personal experience with all of them and they are listed in my order of preference. I would add that my experience was only up to the OC-192 rate.
	permalink · 2009-05-20 08:50:27 ·

alchav join:2002-05-17 Palm Desert, CA	Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities! Just think, if you had conduit right to your house, you could pull in anything you wanted. What a navel idea, I think I said this many years ago, that Cities and Communities should look out for themselves and always have a Plan for the Big Picture.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:09:18 ·

WhatNow
Premium
join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Re: Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities!

The telcos quit putting in extra conduit for the future because they had to let anybody have it for below cost. There is plenty of dark fiber that was never used when the dot com bust happened.
The fiber is needed along rural roads and in neighborhoods not between towns and cities.
How many of you would spend $100k to serve 5-10 customers in rural areas. Of those 10 five may not be able to afford even the cheapest internet service.

permalink · 2009-05-19 18:53:50 ·

alchav

join:2002-05-17
Palm Desert, CA

·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities!

said by WhatNow

:

The telcos quit putting in extra conduit for the future because they had to let anybody have it for below cost. There is plenty of dark fiber that was never used when the dot com bust happened.
The fiber is needed along rural roads and in neighborhoods not between towns and cities.
How many of you would spend $100k to serve 5-10 customers in rural areas. Of those 10 five may not be able to afford even the cheapest internet service.

Somebody has to pay for the Conduit, and you're right, the Telco's will only lay what they are going to use. So in this case the States and Cities pay for Conduit along the highways and roads, and the Communities and Individuals pay for Conduit in the Communities and to the Home. In this case if you want Conduit to your street to pull in Fiber, you will have to shell out some bucks.

permalink · 2009-05-20 14:35:27 · Print ·

DarkLogix join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX	Road Vandalism This gives people a reason to mess up roads because if the highway gets roughed up enough then it'll have to be redone and that'll mean it'll be easier to get broadband there I'm not suggesting people do this just that it might happen
	permalink · 2009-05-19 14:33:49 ·

cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

Re: Road Vandalism

in order for someone to do this, they must be really desperate, nuts, and stupid. i fail to see how someone could pull that off without getting caught or killed. 'vandalizing' in enough locations to warrant a full resurfacing is an almost impossible task considering how durable roads are. there is also the small matter of how to pull it off with multi-ton vehicles going 30 to 80 mph that want to travel where you need to be to 'vandalize' the road.

by the time you make a decent size pot whole, someone will have noticed and probably the police too. a single pot does not warrant a full resurfacing, just send a smal crew to fill it and move on.

permalink · 2009-05-19 15:23:35 · Print ·

DarkLogix join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX	Re: Road Vandalism simple drive over it with a truck thats over the max weight allowed might be hard on most highways but if you get enough weight
	permalink · 2009-05-19 17:53:59 ·

espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

·voip.ms

·Vitelity VOIP

·Callcentric

·VoiceStick

·ViaTalk

·Comcast

·Embarq

said by cornelius785

:

in order for someone to do this, they must be really desperate, nuts, and stupid. i fail to see how someone could pull that off without getting caught or killed.

I agree with the sentiment, but look how many idiots have killed themselves hitting power lines while trying to steal copper telecom cables.

There are some people who don't appear to be capable of rational thought.

permalink · 2009-05-19 18:49:51 · Print ·

ff1324
Everybody Goes Home
Premium
join:2002-08-24
On Four Day

said by cornelius785

:

in order for someone to do this, they must be really desperate, nuts, and stupid. i fail to see how someone could pull that off without getting caught or killed. 'vandalizing' in enough locations to warrant a full resurfacing is an almost impossible task considering how durable roads are. there is also the small matter of how to pull it off with multi-ton vehicles going 30 to 80 mph that want to travel where you need to be to 'vandalize' the road.

by the time you make a decent size pot whole, someone will have noticed and probably the police too. a single pot does not warrant a full resurfacing, just send a smal crew to fill it and move on.

Hey, Lighning McQueen trashed the pavement in Radiator Springs in just 3 minutes...so it COULD happen.

--
Remember the 2008 firefighters and police LODD's in St. Louis:
PO Ballman, Sgt. Biggs, FF Hummert, Sgt. King, FF Riggins... all murdered...RIP brothers.

permalink · 2009-05-20 21:42:00 · Print ·

MWTELCO

@suddenlink.net

Fiber Conduit

With the Obama folks planning all the new infrastructure around the country, the bill on it's face isn't necessarily a bad idea. Why stop with highways? Why not require something that will accomplish similar results along power line and pipeline rights of way? And, while we're at it, let's make a real effort to get more muni broadband made available.

The biggest problem with the proposal is if the incumbent carriers feel threatened they'll go nuclear lobbying to kill anything they feel hurts them regardless of the public being served.

permalink · 2009-05-19 20:59:55 · Print ·

Joe12345678 join:2003-07-22 Des Plaines, IL	why not rail roads or most of them have that now? why not rail roads or most of them have that now?
	permalink · 2009-05-19 22:51:31 ·

rawgerz In Debt we trust Premium join:2004-10-03 Grove City, PA	Re: why not rail roads or most of them have that now? most, if not all main lines should. but compared to the interstate they are no where near as straight.
	permalink · 2009-05-19 23:42:39 ·

ILpt4U
Premium
join:2006-11-12
Lisle, IL

·AT&T Yahoo

·AT&T U-Verse

·magicjack.com

MCI/Verizon has a Fiber Route parallel to the Union Pacific Northwest tracks. At least that is what all the "Warning: Buried Fiber Optic Cable" marking posts from MCI say. They are there from Chicago out at least to Crystal Lake, and I would guess much further.

The IL Tollway system lays Fiber alongside the roads as they build them. Granted, I would assume part of it is to network all the toll plazas, but there is bandwidth to give I'm sure, not too mention the conduit already in place to pull more.

permalink · 2009-05-19 23:47:52 ·

RR Conductor RailRoadDude Premium join:2002-04-02 Redwood Valley, CA	There's already a TON along RR ROW's There is already a TON of fiber laid along railroad right of ways, the Union Pacific Railroad, for example, has the largest private fiber network in the country.
	permalink · 2009-05-20 01:07:16 ·

Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne

·T-Mobile US

Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's

said by RR Conductor

:

There is already a TON of fiber laid along railroad right of ways, the Union Pacific Railroad, for example, has the largest private fiber network in the country.

What a concept fiber along the RR ROW.

Seems to me someone already has done that with a name something like Southern Pacific Railway Internal NeTwork, aka. SPRINT.

We now know that company as SPRINT/NEXTEL.

Wayne

--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician

permalink · 2009-05-20 05:42:22 · Print ·

bn1221 join:2009-04-29 Cortland, NY	Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_Nextel Says nothing about railways. You sure it is not an urban myth?
	permalink · 2009-05-22 15:35:44 ·

Splitpair
Premium
join:2000-07-29
Cow Towne

·T-Mobile US

Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's

said by bn1221

:

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_Nextel

Says nothing about railways. You sure it is not an urban myth?

Origin of name

The origin of the name Sprint is unsettled, with a number of explanations extant. Most of these maintain that the name derives from the name of the Southern Pacific Railroad and its own internal communications system (called the "Southern Pacific Railroad Internal Network")[clarify], but there is some disagreement about the exact words comprising the acronym "SPRINT".

One unverified version is that in the late 1970s a contest was launched by C. Gus Grant, then President of SPCC. It was won by a secretary, Susan Guehrig, who suggested "Sprint". Others maintain that the acronym was already in use prior to that within SP.

The Sprint Corporation was founded in 1899 by Cleyson Leroy Brown under the name of the "Brown Telephone Company" in the small town of Abilene, Kansas. The company was a landline telephone company that operated as a competitor to the Bell System.

In 1938, after emerging from bankruptcy, Brown changed its name to United Utilities. The company grew steadily through acquisitions and changed its name to United Telecommunications in 1972, at which time it provided local telephone service in many areas of the Midwest and South. United Telecom also operated many other types of businesses. In 1980 United Telecom launched a national X.25 data service, Uninet. To enter the long-distance voice market, United Telecom acquired ISACOMM in 1981 and US Telephone in 1984.

Southern Pacific Communications Company (SPCC), a unit of the Southern Pacific Railroad, began providing long-distance telephone service shortly after the Execunet II decision late in 1978. The Railroad had an extensive microwave communications system along its rights of way used for internal communications. In 1972, they began selling surplus time on that system to corporations for use as their own Private Line Network, thereby circumventing AT&T's then-monopoly on public telephony, later expanding to fiber optic cables laid along those same rights of way subsequent to the Execunet II decision late in 1978. Prior attempts at offering long distance service were not approved by the Federal Communications Commission, though the company's fax service (SpeedFAX) had been permitted. SPC was headquartered in Burlingame, California (where Sprint still maintains a small presence on Adrian Ct.).

As mentioned above, SPCC was only permitted to provide Private Line service and not switched services. When MCI Communications released EXECUNET, SPCC went to court with the FCC to get the right to offer switched services. The reason for the contest was to name the new switched service.

The SPRINT service was first marketed to six metropolitan areas, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Diego and Anaheim. The switches were located in Los Angeles and New York. A customer, required to have a Private Line connection to one of these switches in order to use the service, paid an access fee per Private Line. The customer was then billed at 2.6 cents per tenth of a minute increment.

Southern Pacific Communications became part of GTE in 1982 under the name GTE Sprint. GTE had previously acquired a national X.25 provider, Telenet, in 1979.

In 1986, GTE Sprint was merged with GTE Telenet, US Telephone, Uninet, and ISACOMM to form US Sprint. This was a partnership owned by GTE and United Telecom. In 1989 United Telecom purchased controlling interest in US Sprint. In 1991 United Telecom completed its acquisition of US Sprint. That same year United Telecom changed its name to Sprint due in large part to the increased brand recognition of Sprint, as a result of the successful Candice Bergen "Dime Lady" advertisement campaign.

Now for bouns points what does the acronym MCI stand for?

Wayne
--
If you cannot fix it with a buttset and some beanies you ain't a technician

permalink · 2009-05-22 17:25:26 · Print ·

WhatNow Premium join:2009-05-06 Charlotte, NC	Fiber in the power lines The power companies can run fiber in the core of the aerial high power lines.
	permalink · 2009-05-20 06:22:50 ·

blazeman join:2002-04-15 Washington, OK	Re: Fiber in the power lines Already done...OPGW. Optical Ground Wire.
	permalink · 2009-05-20 12:03:07 ·

tyrolier

join:2009-05-24
Akron, PA

·D&E Jazzd

Great idea... about time we start preparing for MORE fibre

First, I think we should deregulate the fibre the Baby Bell companies have sitting there totally dark... Yes folks... TOTALLY dark. Our infrastructure used to be the best in the world... now we rank from 11-23rd (depending on how you measure it).

As for Concrete, expansion joints, and laying of fibre.... Ever been to New Hampshire?

Rule to building a GOOD road (which ANYONE with the engineering background will know) is that you have to get the road bed DEEP enough / THICK enough... New Hampshire solved that problem back in the EARLY 90's.... They doubled what the Federal funding requirement was on their OWN money and built a road that required NO maintenance for YEARS!!!....

Now, like the midwest and northern states (Michigan, Milwaukee, etc).... build it deep enough to be stable..... lay that conduit in there WHILE you have it dug up.... and presto! Now you have two options.... 1) A Fed paid public fibre infrastructure to support that which is in the PRIVATE hands of baby-bell companies... and FIOS (for example, but not picking on anyone in particular.. just citing an example) 'STILL' doesn't live up to what it was supposed to or CAN do when I had FTTC (Fibre To The Curb) back in 96 in Northern VA.

What do you say we get back that #1 status and indeed have the best internet/Voip/HDTV/etc IN THE WORLD!!

I've been watching this thing and trying to influence things, build equipment to work with all kinds of environments/situations my entire career (27+ years now)...

It may be more expensive now to do than then, but isn't that a little bit like warning about the banks 5 years ago when it was OBVIOUS what was going on?

Give the NEW fibre additions a chance ... We WILL put it to good use when we ALL have 50/10 or 100/20 to our computers and won't even remember how it got there, but will just 'take it for granted' (as per norm)... and say we want gigabit internet. Yes, I see the world and I see us... We have it a LOT better than most... we just complain more because we are USED to having the best! So, how about we all get in there, take some of our Banking investment/stock market profits and MAKE the BEST happen..... Sound good? Let's give our kids what they deserve...the BEST we can give them.

T.

permalink · 2009-05-24 16:38:38 · Print ·

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Little too late

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belive it when i see it !

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Next up...

Makes sense to me, installing conduit

any authorized communications provider?

Re: any authorized communications provider?

Re: any authorized communications provider?

Re: any authorized communications provider?

Intent...

Re: Intent...

Re: Intent...

Putting the fiber on poles ?

Re: Putting the fiber on poles ?

Re: Putting the fiber on poles ?

Doesn't work now, won't work later...

Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later...

Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later...

Re: Doesn't work now, won't work later...

Silly

Re: Silly

Re: Silly

Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...?

Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...?

Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...?

Re: Long Haul Fiber "Tap"...?

Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities!

Re: Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities!

Re: Great Idea, and it should filter to Cities and Communities!

Road Vandalism

Re: Road Vandalism

Re: Road Vandalism

Fiber Conduit

why not rail roads or most of them have that now?

Re: why not rail roads or most of them have that now?

There's already a TON along RR ROW's

Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's

Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's

Re: There's already a TON along RR ROW's

Fiber in the power lines

Re: Fiber in the power lines

Great idea... about time we start preparing for MORE fibre