 shoan
join:2006-02-27
Benton, AR
| thin line to tread wouldn't "spotting the images" mean that the employees were looking for the images which could in turn get them thrown in jail for looking at the images. Im all for getting that stuff stopped. But it makes a dangerous line to tread for the person to report the stuff. Seems to me more the policing agency what ever level of government your at to be hunting for the images not joe blow at the ISP. I think it would open up a defense for someone looking at the stuff to say hey i was gathering information to report or block and try to get off of the charges. Oh and the obligatory "DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!" | |
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 | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL
 ·Mediacom
| Re: thin line to tread "Whistle blowers" happen all of the time. It's not difficult to differentiate between those "actively searching" for illicit/illegal content and those simply "monitoring" content. It's actually more of a concern that ISPs would have to shoulder the cost burden of having people actually monitoring their customers' traffic. | |
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| | | openbox9
join:2004-01-26
Navarre, FL | Re: thin line to tread I agree. The law is fine the way it is now. The ISPs are carriers and therefore are not liable for material transiting their network. The user is...WHICH IS WHERE THE RESPONSIBILITY BELONGS. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: thin line to tread Wouldnt existing laws already cover finding illegal content through the course of their jobs? I know a teacher is obligated to inform authorities if they suspect or see evidence of abuse. If a ISP worker through the course of their job finds a cache of kiddie porn or warez or whatever say on a customer's personal website, aren't they obligated to inform the authorities then?
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Go Colts | |
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| | | | | deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
99999
| Re: thin line to tread What kind of evidence. We should take a step back and look at some of these famous examples, such as the 4chan football screwup. The government has no business regulating the internet, a private interconnected 'series of tubes' as they celarly have zero understanding of how it works and who is responsible for what. Their judgement is so far from correct i wouldnt trust them to scoop up dead animals on the highway system, let alone try to regulate the most complex heavily traveled private traffic system on the planet. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: thin line to tread said by deepblackmag  :What kind of evidence. We should take a step back and look at some of these famous examples, such as the 4chan football screwup. The government has no business regulating the internet, a private interconnected 'series of tubes' as they celarly have zero understanding of how it works and who is responsible for what. Their judgement is so far from correct i wouldnt trust them to scoop up dead animals on the highway system, let alone try to regulate the most complex heavily traveled private traffic system on the planet. I'm not looking for them to regulate the internet. It's obvious beyond any type of control as far as content. However just because they can't regulate it doesn't mean that everything becomes illegal.
My point I was trying to make is that I think people already have a duty to some degree to report to authorities, even if they have some form of a common carrier status, when they discover something that might be illegal. If an ISP found a collection of kiddie porn on their servers, report it to the authorities. If they found a website on their servers talking about another 9/11, report it to the authorites. I just don't think that there needs to be additional sets of laws that make ISPs have to go out and actively seek and prevent any types of issues, but if they do encounter one, do something about it.
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Go Colts | |
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| | | Axekick
join:2005-05-01
Granite City, IL
| Agree completely. I will fully support any reasonable actions taken to protect children but this could spiral out of control. It is the government, who collects tax dollars for stopping these types of activities passing their responsibility to the ISP's whose function is providing Internet Service. Another "slippery slope" if this passes. | |
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| | | | rradina
join:2000-08-08
Chesterfield, MO
·Charter Pipeline
 ·Vonage
| Re: thin line to tread No problem. The FCC will create a new service tax called UMF (Universal Monitoring Fund). It will cost customers billions. The billions will require a huge FCC oversight department to reimburse providers.
This is just stupid. Do we expect the cell phone companies to monitor for and try to stop every drug sale that occurs over their network? Ridiculous. | |
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hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
edit:
February 7th, @01:33PM
| OHH my! if they spotted any illicit images of "real or 'cartoon' minors", or face fines up to $300,000.
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So is a cartoon of a nude minor consider child porn??
You know, i'll all against child p0rn, but come on, a cartoon??
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Re: OHH my! D@MN Karl Bode !
Now it's in my cache. I'm doomed. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Re: OHH my! With Anime, how can you tell? | |
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hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: OHH my! said by kyramilan :With Anime, how can you tell? Teh government will make up a way 
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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| | | | | deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
99999
| Re: OHH my! The biggest problem with those idiots is they want to make drawings and other obviously non-real recreations just as illegal as CP. This can and will never work because a cartoon doesnt have an age, and cant consent. With that in mind how do you determine if a participant in a drawing is underaged? If i draw a stick figure and add a caption that says one is 20 while the other is 14 does that make it a crime? Cmon this whole direction of legal development is bullshit and anybody with an IQ over 2 would realize it. | |
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| | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | I'll know it when I see it.
Isn't that the legal definition? | |
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| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| I don't remember the specifics but I think there was a case where a guy went to prison for writing a story about sex with a child (or it might have been drawn, again not sure.)
There was a LOT of debate over it since no child was injured and that this looked like more of a "thought" crime. | |
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dispatcher21
join:2004-01-22
Walla Walla, WA | Re: OHH my! I believe that this case went to the Supreme Court and was overturned. Also during the case, it was pretty much stated that fake or made up pictures using computer graphics, though may be of bad taste, is not illegal. | |
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: OHH my! said by dispatcher21 :I believe that this case went to the Supreme Court and was overturned. Also during the case, it was pretty much stated that fake or made up pictures using computer graphics, though may be of bad taste, is not illegal. If someone can pull the case, I would like to see the ruling itself. | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL | Karl, I just reported you. LOL! | |
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| | MADx
join:2005-05-25
Richmond, IN | There goes all my Anime wallpapers  | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26
| And so...
It begins. The standard "protect the children" excuse and, once they have the door cracked, there will be more incremental steps, untill everything you do is monitored. If you fall for this, you deserve what you will eventually get.
That is correct, 5287, Smith W. Allways remember that big brother is watching because big brother loves you and wants to protect you and your children from thoughtcrime.
Remember: ALLWAYS report thoughtcrime, no matter who it is and, that truth is a lie and a lie is the truth.
Big brother is watching. | |
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| | | | bigjimc
join:2003-04-21
Middleboro, MA | Re: And so... "What about the children" said the frantic mother from the Simpson's. | |
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Snakeoil
Prehende uxorem meam, sis
Premium
join:2000-08-05
Mentor, OH
·RoadRunner Cable
| To some this would be highly illegal. Do to the fact it appearrs to be a child showing a good deal of leg. But then again those same types want to make porn/strip clubs/breast feeding in public illegal. As well as not attending church and worshipping the deity they call "god".
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Say no to the IRS.. Yes to the Fair Tax! This beer is for: 464th bat. 98th div. Combat engineers. Hillside Ave schenectady NY. | |
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| | AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't precedent set that, while real pictures of kids will land you in jail, 2D/3D rendered works do not? (Seeing as how its hard to cause mental anguish to paper/pixels)
All arguements about animated child ethics aside, if its legal to own, then how is it "OK" to be reported to the feds over it now under these proposed bills? | |
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| russotto
join:2000-10-05
Collegeville, PA
| There are several laws making simulated child porn illegal. However, the Supreme Court has so far struck down those which have gotten to it. Congress will keep trying until they can put you in PMITA Federal Prison for a stick figure which is too short. | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL | So what is the argument against cartoons?
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Re: OHH my! They want the ISP to monitor anime child pictures because they consider it child porn.
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Team Discovery-Join the fight | |
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halfband
Premium
join:2002-06-01
Huntsville, AL | Re: OHH my! So there are illegal cartoons? I guess I live a sheltered life.
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Registered Bandwidth Offender #40812 | |
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| iliketoplay1
join:2006-02-06
Merrill, WI
| From wikipedia
"In the United States, child pornography is prohibited under both federal and state laws with some state laws including more or less restrictive definitions compared with federal law. Under federal law, child pornography is defined as visual depiction of minors (i.e. under 18) engaged in a sex act such as intercourse, oral sex, or masturbation as well as the lascivious depictions of the genitals." To get more of a run down go here »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_porn···d_States
and see what is or is not considered child porn. | |
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| AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by hopeflicker :You know, i'll all against child p0rn, but come on, a cartoon?? I feel every cartoon studio that ever had a picture of a bare-bottomed kid drawn be reported to the authorities. Clearly these images are illicit.  | |
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hopeflicker
They all belong in the trash
Premium
join:2003-04-03
Long Beach, CA
| Re: OHH my! OMG!!! call the polize!!!
Child p0rn!!!
Ohhh, will someone plz think of the children!
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Fossils, Not Gospels. | |
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jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
·Verizon Online DSL
edit:
February 8th, @04:06AM
| Re: OHH my! said by hopeflicker :OMG!!! call the polize!!! Child p0rn!!! LOL. And bestiality with the family pooch too! That'll get her parents put away for life. But the really heinous crime is the poor child appears to enjoy it!, hopelessly corrupted as she has been. Innocence ruined in the worst way by godless heathens.
Great recall on that image, hopeflicker.
----edit----
Looking at the two images it appears Coppertone caught some flack and had to modify the bum coverage so no crack was visible. [rollseyes] | |
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brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Hee Hawww Wow this won't pass! | |
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See 12 replies to this post |
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pokesph
It Is Almost Fast
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
clubs:
·Comcast
| Bad for Anime fans.. Not good.. this will basically wipe out the anime sub-culture and make all those 'artists' criminals... not to mention all the websites that have that anime content..
How are they going to expect to enforce something like this when a WHOLE country (i.e. Japan) fully embraces it? | |
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See 13 replies to this post |
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Trinijoy
Premium
join:2005-09-12
Brick, NJ | yup No one realizes this but a lot of patch downloaders for Games now run off of bit torrent, but no one seems to care about them. | |
|
CPanime
@pacbell.net | karl naughty ....lol under this law u'd be fine or mahybe bbr for hosting the file | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN | They are forcing ISP employees to view child porn? That is screwed up. If I worked at an ISP I would not want to have to search cached images for child porn nor should an ISP be forced to store such images on their servers. | |
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| keyboard5684
join:2001-08-01
Youngsville, PA
·Verizon Online DSL
·Vonage
·WestPAnet Inc. CA..
| Re: They are forcing ISP employees to view child porn? CAN they store those images on there servers, even if they are cache? Technical advisers must be pretty slim when it comes to these bills.
So the ISP is damned if they store the images, damned if they erase them. Hmmm.
Plus, there is the cost. Who do you think will have to pay for all that record watching, all that monitoring, all the legal bull the ISPs will have to go through. Basically mom and pop ISPs will be gone since they cannot afford an employee looking for child porn, let alone a legal team. | |
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Loker
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Constantine, MI
clubs:
·Embarq
| Re: This is up on CNN. I have to ask....how did they all find that site? I mean I can not see them having banner ad's for child porn on a bunch of sites....it just amazes me that people find these shady alleys on the internet....
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"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic inQuake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking | |
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| | | deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
99999
| Re: This is up on CNN. Hardly un-advertised shady alleys. If you run a major forum with anonymous posting, (take the chan systems for example) there will always be pedos hanging around ready to post the minute the mods take a vacation to advertise their wares. Tens of thousands of eyeballs could hit a thread before a mod kills it, and a few of those eyes will probablly visit and pay. Policing an internet discussion of any given size is difficult and with most websites not operating with a profit, unable to afford full time staffing to filter, it becomes impossible. This is why website operators who work on a best effort system shouldnt be liable for user posted content. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
·Embarq
| An idea I always thought a good way to handle the porn situation would be to require US based porn websites to include a tag alerting the browser to the content. People who do not wish to view porn could set a browser setting to give warnings at websites that display the tag. Adult filter tools could block the site entirely.
Of course this wouldn't be a complete solution as there would be plenty of overseas sites not complying with the tag. But it could help.
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"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
Albany, NY
| Warning labels The second part of this bill revives a previous failed attempt to require owners of sites with sexually explicit content to put warning labels on each offending page of their sites, or face prison time. Offensive as defined by who? Suppose I put up a webpage saying that describes safe sex practises. There are many people who would find that offensive. Would I have to put some sort of warning label on the site? What about a page about breast cancer (with images for self examination)? Natural child birth (might contain a photo in which a woman's private parts are visible)?
I'd especially like to see them enforce the labeling law when the site is run by people in Europe on a server hosted in Russia. | |
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| AquaBlaze
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Warning labels said by Jason Levine :Offensive as defined by who? Suppose I put up a webpage saying that describes safe sex practises. There are many people who would find that offensive. Would I have to put some sort of warning label on the site? What about a page about breast cancer (with images for self examination)? Natural child birth (might contain a photo in which a woman's private parts are visible)? I guess one could go over-the-top and simply flag every page they create as potentially objectionable. That way, should anyone come across something they see as vulgar, they could say they were warned. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
| boooo this is is bull. The policing of websites by isp's to report to the federal government. boo. They need to get their hands out of our business already. If they are going to do policing they should do it themselves not make the isp's be held responsible. it is all about placiong the blame. and fining webmasters for offensive material FREE SPEECH!!! Who is so righteous to say that is offensive and the other is not. Heck in china they cannot even view the weather (remember when the quakes happened out at see and severed some backbones to the internet). I think this is bull and they could do so much more with their time than worry about this stuff. How about focus on my retirement and the baby boomers retirement, how about following through with healthcare coverage, or providing more help for the youth of the nation who is facing a huge burden with school tuition ( ex the amount of grants has dried up quite a bit and now they are pushing people to get loans). Let the police do their work and let the isp's do their work also. Do what each does best. Just my 2 cent rant
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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| fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| Re: boooo It will never work... This will only make the lawmakers who are trying to institute this garbage as idiots.. and the patriotic country loving republicans (I say that because many of them make it clear they are) are proving that they are not for love of country, rather, love of church - a misguided version at best.
So, to make an ISP a policing force of the internet is foolish. If you can't get a police officer to ask foreigners for a valid visa, passport, or what ever.. then how do they think they will get an ISP to police the internet. They tried this with teachers and with other sections in society.
Law enforcement, last time I checked, wasn't part of my job description. And further, these law makers LOVE unfunded mandates. I'm curious who is going to pay for all this added disk space requirements and other systems that will be needed to be put in place.
Gotta love the land of the free.. they look to lock people up at every turn and fine outrageous fines.
I sure hope people are listening in 2008 when they cast their vote. Demicans and Republicrats alike.. they both need to go. Thank god I don't vote for either.
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"Wipe out the national deficit over night... Tax the stupid!" - about 50 gMail invites available. PM if you'd like one. | |
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guitarzan
See. Now watch and learn.
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA | Re: boooo Fiberguy, IMO, this whole data retention scheme, sounds as if this issue falls under the 10th Amendment. Where it legally should be taken to court. | |
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DHRacer
Fire Survivor
join:2000-10-10
Lake Arrowhead, CA
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Charter Pipeline
| XXX TLD name Why don't we just go back to the XXX TLD concept if we are talking about something we can barely enforce in our own country and have no way in hell of enforcing it in other countries.
Then the ISP has nothing to do with content policing and Big Brother can go find some other way to legalize spying on all its citizens.
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"No one will believe you solved this problem in one day! We've been working on it for months. Now, go act busy for a few weeks and I'll let you know when it's time to tell them." (R&D Supervisor, Minnesota Mining & Manufacturing /3M Corp.) | |
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| hottboiinnc
Kyle
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH | Re: Ohmigod... Ever notice that all the data retention and checking only started after Gonzalez was appointed Atty. General. Maybe he's the one that likes to look at all the porn. | |
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Al S
Jer 29 v.11
join:2007-01-23
Huntington Station, NY
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Ohmigod... said by hottboiinnc :Ever notice that all the data retention and checking only started after Gonzalez was appointed Atty. General. Maybe he's the one that likes to look at all the porn. Actually, it's catching up with all the stuff that Reno allowed. Lest we forget that she was the one who defended child porn as free speech. Nice try | |
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New Bills Make ISPs Internet Watchdogs
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Ohmigod...