 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| Good Congress should just scrap the bill altogether. No national broadband "plan" is needed, and as has been pointed out before, it is trivially easy for people to find out if a residence to which they are moving is serviced for broadband.
»Re: Point Has Merit
If broadband providers are not providing data that explains where they are providing service, then why is it possible for customers to access said data?
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02
Host:
Road Runner
PC gaming GAMES
PC gaming Tech
| Re: Good If broadband providers are not providing data that explains where they are providing service, then why is it possible for customers to access said data? So you're saying that customers having access to limited one-off pre-qualification databases is the same thing as the government having accurate national broadband penetration, coverage and deployment data before making massive decisions? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by Karl Bode  :So you're saying that customers having access to limited one-off pre-qualification databases is the same thing as the government having accurate national broadband penetration, coverage and deployment data before making massive decisions? I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband.
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| | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. so you already have your 100Mbps symmetric connection for $50/mo? | |
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| | | | Angrychair
join:2000-09-20
Jacksonville, FL
·Comcast
 ·AT&T Southeast
| Re: Good said by nasadude :said by pnh102 :I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. so you already have your 100Mbps symmetric connection for $50/mo? I'm sure it comes through the same corporate phallus he has rammed up his rectum. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by nasadude :said by pnh102 :I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. so you already have your 100Mbps symmetric connection for $50/mo? And again, how will the government make that happen? Do you really have faith that the government can manage anything in a good capacity lately?
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| | | | | nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by pnh102 :And again, how will the government make that happen? Do you really have faith that the government can manage anything in a good capacity lately? I don't have the answers, but this canard the government can't do anything is a load of bull.
the government can't do anything right when it's run by incompetents that don't believe in government - I believe that's been amply proved over the last several years.
But yes, I do believe the govt is capable of managing whatever it sets it's mind to when it has competent leaders - it's done so in the past and will do so again in the future, when we have competent leaders. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by nasadude :I don't have the answers, but this canard the government can't do anything is a load of bull. Except for the fact that pretty much everything the government has gotten into that is beyond the scope of its duly delegated powers has proven this notion correct.
said by nasadude :the government can't do anything right when it's run by incompetents that don't believe in government - I believe that's been amply proved over the last several years. And during this time, the private sector has succeeding in expanding broadband availability all through the country with no money from taxpayers. Given government's proven track record of failure, why should we entrust it with something as important as broadband?
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by pnh102 :said by Karl Bode :So you're saying that customers having access to limited one-off pre-qualification databases is the same thing as the government having accurate national broadband penetration, coverage and deployment data before making massive decisions? I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. Sure it can. I can give insentives to companies to build out broadband. Hard to do that when you don't know where it's needed. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by BF69 :Sure it can. I can give insentives to companies to build out broadband. Hard to do that when you don't know where it's needed. Private companies do not need the government to tell them where to build. Most private companies can determine on their own where the most profitable areas to build will be.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD | Yawn. I get my broadband for free.
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Skype
1 edit | Re: Good pnh102,
Maybe you're on ignore because you don't add any substance. You don't give anyone any credit for a different opinion. Neither you nor your readers grow as a result of your contributions. I have just read 6 definitive messages in a row from you, none exhibiting any hint of critical thinking that might challenge your own positions.
As you pointed out, private companies can (and DO) determine on their own where the most profitable areas to build will be. So where are they building? For the past two years, they've been building where broadband already exists! We've had less than 1 percent of additional penetration -- in two years! So how do YOU purport to increase the availability of broadband to more Americans?
Can government manage a large-capacity network? We'll, it already manages several but that's beside the point. You and I probably agree that just because the government can do something doesn't mean that it should -- and we both probably agree that this particular idea has very limited merit. On the other hand, if the government does decide to take a role in retaking our top broadband ranking someday, what do you think should it do to move forward?
If you're just going to be offended or give me back another flat answer, then don't bother. But here's a chance to consider that those who respond to you are also serious about their own convictions and are inviting you to influence them -- not belittle them.
Robb
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by funchords :Maybe you're on ignore because you don't add any substance. No, I think people ignore me simply because they do not agree with me. I don't bother to ignore anyone because I don't care enough about them to put them on ignore.
said by funchords :I have just read 6 definitive messages in a row from you, none exhibiting any hint of critical thinking that might challenge your own positions. And exactly what did I say that was incorrect?said by funchords :We've had less than 1 percent of additional penetration -- in two years! Complete bull. There are numerous places that have gotten broadband that did not have it before. You can see numerous examples posted on this very site about private companies extending service to previously unserved areas. That can't possibly be an increase of 1%.
said by funchords : So how do YOU purport to increase the availability of broadband to more Americans? I believe that people who want broadband should invest their own private funds to build their own broadband solutions without the government getting involved.
said by funchords :On the other hand, if the government does decide to take a role in retaking our top broadband ranking someday, what do you think should it do to move forward? I really do not believe that this is as important as people think it is. Other countries that have invested significant tax revenue to build higher-end networks still have yet to surpass us in terms of GDP.
said by funchords :If you're just going to be offended or give me back another flat answer, then don't bother. I don't understand how you have concluded that I get offended ?
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| Re: Good said by pnh102 :I don't understand how you have concluded that I get offended ? Because you generally haven't been appearing to come here with any desire to learn and grow, nor do you feed those desires in others.
I really do not believe that this is as important as people think it is. Other countries that have invested significant tax revenue to build higher-end networks still have yet to surpass us in terms of GDP. THERE. Thank you. This is good stuff.
I see a correlation between a strong per-capita GDP and broadband penetration.
Take a look at this report »www.itif.org/index.php?id=143
or this report »www.websiteoptimization.com/bw/0809/
and compare it to the per-capita GDP »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co···r_capita (sort the "rank" columns to see the data) and many of the same names pop out. While the relationship isn't perfect (expensive oil and cheap labor tend to skew some countries), I cannot conclude that availability of broadband and national productivity are unrelated.
I believe that people who want broadband should invest their own private funds to build their own broadband solutions without the government getting involved. I know that's what you want. But let's, theoretically, say that you don't get your first wish and we're going to do this. What is the best way to proceed and why?
There are numerous places that have gotten broadband that did not have it before. You can see numerous examples posted on this very site about private companies extending service to previously unserved areas. That can't possibly be an increase of 1%. What examples?
I am slightly off, I thought it was 2006-2008. The OECD data shows that between 2006 and 2007 years, the U.S. has advanced 1.36% and Canada is 0.00. So (for us in the US) it's one year and more than 1%. I really don't think 2008 will come in very strong, do you?
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| | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
1 edit | said by pnh102 :I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. So there is no need to point out how the corporate greed that is dooming our country's economic future is unpatriotic. BTW the fastest growth in government spending is now in corporate welfare. | |
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| | | | viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| Re: Good Is that pnhwhatever spouting crap again? I can't tell, except from people quoting him, as I have him on ignore. But if he is saying that government can do nothing to improve broadband, I would respectfully disagree. The state of Idaho implemented a proposal where the State contracted several providers to install broadband infrastructure in numerous small municipalities, and paid 1/2 the cost. In Qwest's territory, DSL was installed in at least 30 central offices, and numerous remotes (I don't know what the stats are for the other providers, I know Verizon didn't want to do it in their area, so a WISP was contracted). This has been completed for about a year, and seems to be quite popular. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by viperlmw :II can't tell, except from people quoting him, as I have him on ignore. You want me.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by Sammer :So there is no need to point out how the corporate greed that is dooming our country's economic future is unpatriotic. Why is it wrong for business owners or shareholders to be greedy? The whole point of a business is to make money.
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| | | | | Sammer
join:2005-12-22
Pittsburgh, PA
1 edit | Re: Good said by pnh102 :said by Sammer :So there is no need to point out how the corporate greed that is dooming our country's economic future is unpatriotic. Why is it wrong for business owners or shareholders to be greedy? The whole point of a business is to make money. Their corporations depend on there being a lawful society and when corporate greed exceeds reasonable boundaries that isn't possible. Doesn't the government bail-out tell you something? There has to be limits to corporate greed just as we have laws against theft or our economy will collapse. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by Sammer :Their corporations depend on there being a lawful society and when corporate greed exceeds reasonable boundaries that isn't possible. Doesn't the government bail-out tell you something? There has to be limits to corporate greed just as we have laws against theft or our economy will collapse. I agree with you that companies must be expected to operate within the law. I also have believed that any bailout was wrong. I think that the markets would have sufficiently punished companies that behaved badly by allowing them to go under had the government not bailed them out.
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| | | | | | | vinnie97
join:2003-12-05
Mesquite, TX | Re: Good Oh but the Bush admin threatened Martial Law would be an inevitability if said bailout wasn't passed. | |
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| | | Corydon
Cultivant son jardin
Premium
join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
clubs:
·Comcast
| said by pnh102 :said by Karl Bode :So you're saying that customers having access to limited one-off pre-qualification databases is the same thing as the government having accurate national broadband penetration, coverage and deployment data before making massive decisions? I am saying the government has no need for such information, as there is nothing it can do to improve broadband. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the government has no need for that information, but considering that the national debt just passed $10 trillion and we just appropriated $700 billion for the bailout, I hate to say it but broadband mapping is one of those things that might have to be sacrificed until we get our financial house in order.
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funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype
| said by pnh102 :Congress should just scrap the bill altogether. No national broadband "plan" is needed, and as has been pointed out before, it is trivially easy for people to find out if a residence to which they are moving is serviced for broadband. » Re: Point Has MeritIf broadband providers are not providing data that explains where they are providing service, then why is it possible for customers to access said data? The Verizon database is terribly broken and Comcast apparently validates any address as available for service in places where it serves one address. (Customers apparently find out on install day when nobody shows.)
Meanwhile, as far as the FCC knows, 99 percent of the nation have broadband access and that 91.5 percent has three or more choices. Trouble is, those figures are apparently only true on a zip-code by zip-code basis, and the per-address basis is far, far less.
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Good said by funchords :The Verizon database is terribly broken and Comcast apparently validates any address as available for service in places where it serves one address. (Customers apparently find out on install day when nobody shows.) Why is it that most of the people with those problems seem to hang out here? While no system is always going to be perfect, I would dare say that for most people, these databases are accurate enough. The government's mandate for something better is not going to change things, at least, not at a price that we'd be willing to pay.
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dnoyeB
Ferrous Phallus
join:2000-10-09
Southfield, MI
| Re: There are no national broadband issues that need addressing Going after earmarks because of 18B while there are so many other "gifts" worth much more is just non-sensical.
Mr. McCain's problem is his poor campaign team. "Earmarks" is precisely why McCain voted against the bill with all the "goodies" in it, but he failed to point that out when he had the chance.
Problem with earmarks is not just the bills that pass but also them being used to shoot down bills that competition does not want to be passed. I guess people only under stand $$$. But then if thats the case, why even make it part of your campaign...
And no, Joe Taxpayer does not need to "solve" any broadband issues. Get out of the way and let the States handle it.
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dnoyeB
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard. " Ecclesiastes 9:16
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: There are no national broadband issues that need addressing And who funds the States? Jane Taxpayer. | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| Re: There are no national broadband issues that need addressing said by Dogfather :And who funds the States? Jane Taxpayer. No shit. Do these guys think the states are geting their money from different sources? | |
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Dogfather
Premium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
·Cox HSI
 ·Verizon FIOS
·Cox VOIP
·ViaTalk
·RoadRunner Cable
·MegaPath
·Verizon west (ex G..
·Time Warner VOIP
4 edits | Re: There are no national broadband issues that need addressing Or that the States are in the same or worse position deficit-wise as the Federal gov't. California, which has been running Obamanomics for more than a decade is on the verge of TOTAL collapse.
You want to see what an Obama fiscal policy would look like, just look at Sacramento. In the fat years, balloon gov't exponentially. In the lean years, come crying to Joe Taxpayer that they'll let out all the criminals and fire all the firefighters if they don't balloon taxes.
Radical liberal fiscal policy is not change, it's just more of the same. Gov't isn't the solution to any broadband problem. They can't even do the most basic functions without f-ing it all up and having it cost 100X what it should cost.
Of course McCain is no better as an ardent free trader, expecting US workers to compete head to head with slave wages and near zero regulations of other countries or worse, wanting to make every illegal here legal with the sign of a pen, inviting an invasion of unskilled illegals from the south that will decimate public services and drive down wages of legal residents, especially lower income legal immigrants. | |
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jimbo48
join:2000-11-17
Hayward, CA
·AT&T DSL Service
·EarthLink
| Re: There are no national broadband issues that need addressing As of this AM California is 1 billion in the red and the budget hasn't been in place for 30 days! Joe and JAne Taxpayer will get reamed form Federal and State tax increases and it will backrupt them and they'll lose their home (if they still have one)
The Golden state is golden because the homeownr/taxpayer is getting pissed on by every special interst group that would sell their mother for an extra 2 cents on the bottom line of their P & L statement.
Skee datl , I don't know you but you are soooo right on about Calivrnia politics. | |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| Listen...this looks to me as it's a follow up of the TCOM act of '96. Yes it's taken this freakin long.
"Efforts by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to measure the speed and quality of broadband deployment across the United States originated after Congress enacted of the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Under section 706 of that Act, the FCC is required to conduct regular inquiries concerning the availability of advanced telecommunications capability and to determine whether advanced telecommunications capability is being deployed to all Americans in a reasonable and timely fashion."
"Upon adopting a 200 kilobits per second (kbps) standard, the FCC concluded that such speed was `enough to provide the most popular forms of broadband--to change web pages as fast as one can flip through the pages of a book and to transmit full-motion video' and further noted that `as technologies evolve, the concept of broadband will evolve with it"
"Following adoption of a technical standard for broadband, the FCC followed up in 2000 with an order establishing rules to facilitate the collection of basic information from providers regarding the deployment of broadband services and to create a standardized form (FCC Form 477). 4"
"In establishing a regular and consistent survey of broadband deployment, the FCC emphasized the value of its approach noting that `only a comprehensively imposed, mandatory data collection effort will provide us with a set of data of uniform quality and reliability.'
In 2004, the Commission extended its data collection efforts for another 5 years and made certain improvements to the FCC Form 477 requirements which included collecting information about higher speed broadband connections offered by providers."
With that, couldn't you conclude that someones out there saying that the FCC dropped the ball, the telecommunication companies aren't complying, and maybe we should adopt some form of updated communications policy before we get technologically surpasssed by Uganda?
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The "Lifetime" channel is responsible for 83% of all divorces...Robert Ginty | |
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| | SilverSurfer
join:2007-08-19
1 edit | said by dnoyeB :Mr. McCain's problem is his poor campaign team. "Earmarks" is precisely why McCain voted against the bill with all the "goodies" in it, but he failed to point that out when he had the chance. Grampy McSame doesn't even know how to use email and you want him to understand what broadband is?
He makes Ted tubes Stevens look technologically savvy, fer cryin' out loud! | |
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LiamJunket
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Ocean City, NJ
·Comcast
| President didn't sign this bill yet The bill is sitting on the President's desk:
»thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z···s.01492:
But even if he signs it - so what?
Without money all it did was to order the FCC to do what it already planned on doing. Nothing really changes at all. | |
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See 9 replies to this post |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD | early risers? seems like mainly broadband luddites up early this morning. | |
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| bcoleman71
join:2007-09-18
Dallas, TX
| Re: early risers? said by nasadude :seems like mainly broadband luddites up early this morning. No kidding! I've been watching these forums for the past 8 and a half years and I can't make any sense out of why some people would support the status quo because obviously it has been much more of a benefit to big corporations than to us consumers!
Hmmm, maybe they have a vested interest in seeing these companies stifle our broadband progress and putting us further behind the broadband leaders of the world... | |
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Bushwhacker
@ms.com | Re: early risers? Let's not mince words. These guys are a##holes. | |
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anonymous1abc
@verizon.net | sounds like a good opportunity for a FOSS project Sounds like a good opportunity for a FOSS project to write software to test bandwidth periodically. | |
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mmoon
join:2005-12-03
Marietta, GA | Suggestion For broadband, let's set up a program similar to the REMC'S with electricity. It could be made to work. | |
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New Broadband Data Bill Forgets The Broadband Data