dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
New ISP Snooping Tech Doesn't Work With BitTorrent
Will ISPs be wasting their time trying to kill piracy?
by Karl Bode 10:45AM Tuesday Oct 28 2008
Last week we noted that as part of New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo's rather dubious "crackdown" on ISPs and child porn, he advised ISPs to begin using a deep packet inspection solution from a company named Brilliant Digital. The technology would analyze user packets, comparing transmitted user data to a master database of illegal content. The entertainment industry has been using the threat of child porn as a gateway toward forcing ISPs to act as content nannies, and Brilliant's solution is a major front-runner for the honor. The system, which begins trials this week in Australia, is being touted as an anti-piracy cure-all -- an article in The Age claiming it "will kill the illegal sharing of pirated content and child porn over peer-to-peer networks." But Torrent Freak notes that it has one fatal flaw: it doesn't work for BitTorrent, the most popular P2P technology.

view:
topics flat nest 

ztmike
Mark for moderation
Premium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN

2 edits

Child Porn?

How exactly is the "entertainment industry" have anything to do with child porn? I wasn't aware they sold child porn?

Another thing..Deep packet inspection as far as I take it is ILLEGAL. If it ain't it should be.

I think the only way to kill off p2p is caps..and plenty of U.S cable ISP's are starting this.

But honestly..I think p2p is the wave of the future. It will just transform into something better.

If the entertainment industry wants to kill off illegal filesharing they SHOULD be going after the industry that makes blank dvd's and cd's, OR the ripping hardware.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Child Porn?

Child Porn stopping and for the children are the universal get a law passed free card. because nobody wanting to get reelected will vote against something for the kids no matter how dumb it is.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

Tsume
Premium
join:2004-02-23
Johnson City, TN

Re: Child Porn?

Don't forget national security! That's another one too, but maybe they're saving that card for another article...

No tampering with my connection at all, plzkthx.
Cyron

join:2002-09-24
Charlotte, NC
The name of the bill is all about getting it passed. 'Patriot Act', 'Freedom' act, 'I love America and will pass anything I'm paid to pass' act. What politician would ever vote against the "Stop Child Porn" act?
jc100

join:2002-04-10

Re: Child Porn?

Give it a clever name, bury in anything you want, and WALLAH. I mean, as you said, who is going to vote against the.

Save America from terrorist.
Stop Child Porn

etc etc. We all know these asshat politicians wave these votes around, even if they said all americans must register their activity on a universal log or face jail. We'd still have politicians passing such laws, as long as they got CATCHY NAMES.

greendragon
Premium
join:2003-09-20
Stewartville, MN

1 recommendation

Is deep packet inspection illegal? I congress was "looking into the legalities" but has anyone really said positively that it is illegal?

Don't get me wrong I don't want it to be legal, but I don't think the issue has been decided for sure.

quote:
If the entertainment industry wants to kill off illegal filesharing they SHOULD be going after the industry that makes blank dvd's and cd's, OR the ripping hardware.
If they go after the guys that make blank DVDs then they have to go after the guys that make hard drives, flash drives, tapes, etc. What they really need to do is change they're business model into something that can flex with the way consumers want to use their media.
--
Folding for our future!!

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2
said by ztmike:

How exactly is the "entertainment industry" have anything to do with child porn? I wasn't aware they sold child porn?
It's called slipping the camel's nose under the tent.

They say they're doing it "for the children". when they're actually not willing to admit their business model is terribly flawed and they have no intention of keeping up with technology.

I would rather they didn't go after things like ripping software, and blank media. I used CD-R's and DVD-R's to store data, not music or movies. I often used ripping software to move music I all ready own to my iPod.
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…

Ual

@bellsouth.net
Yeah, I don't get that either. From what I understood deep packet looks at the data being transferred and compares it to a master database of no-no content assembled by the movie and record industries. If it appears to be copyrighted material the transfer is killed or something along those lines. There is no master database of porn - so how can inspecting packets determine anything about it? Seems like a fundamentally flawed concept at least when it comes to stopping child porn.
openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by ztmike:

Another thing..Deep packet inspection as far as I take it is ILLEGAL. If it ain't it should be.
DPI isn't illegal, nor should it be. Outlawing DPI prevents/minimizes a lot of potentially useful technologies. It's the questionable use of information gleamed from DPI that needs to be examined, not DPI itself.
SilverSurfer1

join:2007-08-19
said by ztmike:

If the entertainment industry wants to kill off illegal filesharing they SHOULD be going after the industry that makes blank dvd's and cd's, OR the ripping hardware.
So you're against DPI but you favor "going after" blank media? LMAO. Do you even know what you're talking about.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Child Porn?

said by SilverSurfer1:

said by ztmike:

If the entertainment industry wants to kill off illegal filesharing they SHOULD be going after the industry that makes blank dvd's and cd's, OR the ripping hardware.
So you're against DPI but you favor "going after" blank media? LMAO. Do you even know what you're talking about.
dont forget that all one would have to do is shop at a canadian website.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA
i also like the idea of p2p. it'll enable the main distributor of some content to reduce their connection speed to the internet and month bandwidth consumption while enabling people to still download the content fast. with files getting larger, the common user's internet connection getting faster, and hard drive storage continuing to grow, i'd say p2p can help a lot to ensure the server's connection isn't completely saturated and costs a fortune to maintain.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Total Waste of Upgrade dollars

imo caps are a far better method, preferably on the more generous end. 250gb isnt too bad honestly, and ive been known to have my piggish months with the old cable modem.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

Re: Total Waste of Upgrade dollars

Caps MUST come with a way to monitor usage.

And a 3rd party hack isn't good enough. If an ISP is imposing a cap, they should provide a way to monitor it.

You wouldn't pull up to a gas station, fill your car and then ask the price, would you?
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…

joncellini

join:2001-04-19
Beaverton, OR

Re: Total Waste of Upgrade dollars

said by N3OGH:

If an ISP is imposing a cap, they should provide a way to monitor it.

You wouldn't pull up to a gas station, fill your car and then ask the price, would you?
I also wouldn't trust my local Telco to be honest (or objective) about my consumption. Hopefully just like your gas station analogy there will be some independent auditing to ensure the meeting is uniform/valid.
--
Jon Cellini
You've glimpsed the fist within the Bene Gesserit glove. Few glimpse it and live.

N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

Re: Total Waste of Upgrade dollars

Agreed.

Personally, I'm opposed to caps, even though with my usage, I would never reach them..
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power…

Ian
Premium
join:2002-06-18
ON
kudos:3

BDE is still around?

Wow. These are the same guys that ran afoul of the law themselves by partnering with Kazaa and launching their own P2P ad serving network bundled with Kazaa. I would have thought they'd be flat broke by now. Their penny stock is trading at $0.03 a share though if anyone wants to place a long shot bet.....

As the article points out, most Torrent sites apparently do a good job of keeping things like kiddie porn off of their sites.

If BDE is involved I suspect the packet inspection has a lot more to do with a plan to serve targeted ads rather than preventing any crimes.
--
“Any claim that the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as a claim that the root of a problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.” – David Wong

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: BDE is still around?

said by Ian:

As the article points out, most Torrent sites apparently do a good job of keeping things like kiddie porn off of their sites.
IMO most Kiddie Porn that is transferred by BT is almost definitely done with private Torrent Sites not public ones (assuming that the same type of system that was used FTP to transfer porn is used with BT Transfers). This means that there are BT Sites (and Servers) that are only known to those who want/distribute kiddie porn and you get your .torrent files from there (after logging in) and thus the policing by the known Torrent Sites of what the content of the .torrent files that they list does no good.
Vadork

join:2005-09-01
Winnebago, IL

Re: BDE is still around?

The pirate bay carries a number of Child Porn website rips. All of which are based in Europe and Russia. Dress girls up in erotic clothing, swimsuits etc... Then they show off the private parts through the clothing. Here in Illinois, our supreme court ruled It's child porn by showing the genitalia of a minor through clothing intentionally.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: BDE is still around?

said by Vadork:

The pirate bay carries a number of Child Porn website rips. All of which are based in Europe and Russia. Dress girls up in erotic clothing, swimsuits etc... Then they show off the private parts through the clothing. Here in Illinois, our supreme court ruled It's child porn by showing the genitalia of a minor through clothing intentionally.
A question and some comments.

Are the models actually underage or 18+ and DRESSING in Children's Clothing? If they are 18+ then it is (possibly) porn (depending on your definition of Porn) but not CHILD Porn.

Second, your Supreme Court seems to be defining Porn as Pictures showing Nudity and not just Sexual Activities. Thus a "baby on a rug picture" is Child Porn since the baby is not clothed even when s/he is on her/his stomach instead of back (where the genitalia is exposed not hidden).
Vadork

join:2005-09-01
Winnebago, IL

Re: BDE is still around?

When I say Underage I mean UNDERAGE! Were talking 12 year old girls. Even younger than 10 on some sites. I'll try and hunt down the ruling to be more specific as to the ruling. But these sites don't even use models 16 or up.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: BDE is still around?

said by Vadork:

When I say Underage I mean UNDERAGE! Were talking 12 year old girls. Even younger than 10 on some sites. I'll try and hunt down the ruling to be more specific as to the ruling. But these sites don't even use models 16 or up.
This is, IMO, a case of the Judge trying to do a Long Arm application of his local standards. Sites that are located out of his jurisdiction are a gray area if the content is legal in location of the site (and especially if it is a non-US site). For example, in certain areas of the Middle East it is supposedly illegal to have pictures of the a woman whose face is not covered (no matter what clothing she is wearing/not-wearing).

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

1 recommendation

EPIC FAIL

Subject pretty much says it all.

Such foolishness to trust a software/hardware solution being touted by a former (?) spyware company like Brilliant Digital.

Or in the words of Nelson Muntz, HA HA!
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)

m3rl1n

@compuware.com

Never!

The entertainment industry will never prevent piracy or completely stop it. They need to realize that there are a large number of people out there that are far more technologically advanced than they are.

Hell, if they start doing DPI, then pirates will move to using SSL encryption and maybe kerberos.

ShadPTR

join:2008-01-23
Markham, ON

Re: Never!

said by m3rl1n :

The entertainment industry will never prevent piracy or completely stop it. They need to realize that there are a large number of people out there that are far more technologically advanced than they are.

Hell, if they start doing DPI, then pirates will move to using SSL encryption and maybe kerberos.
I can say the same about all the lawmakers as well, they are antiquated dinosaurs trying to preach to everyone else about their dumbass ideas.

cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:7
said by m3rl1n :

then pirates will move to using SSL encryption
Most popular bittorrent clients have supported encryption. The stronger encryption mode is based on RC4 encryption. SSL is not encryption in and of itself, rather it's the protocol implementation of any one of many different encryption algorithms to create a secure communications layer. So in essence, Bittorrent already has ssl or the equivalent and has had such for some time.

and maybe kerberos.
Huh? Playing security terminology bingo again? Kerberos has nothing to do with securing communications of large amounts of information. It's a authentication protocol for proving your identity across an insecure channel.
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

Re: Never!

on the subject of kerberos... i'm guess he was trying to make a stab at some form of key exchange or authentication, but that's a stretch. i'm not familar with ssl, but i would think the entire process would use some sort of authenication, public key algorithm to exchange a session key, and then a private key algorithm to handle the rest.

SmutMan

@blueyonder.co.uk
said by m3rl1n :

The entertainment industry will never prevent piracy or completely stop it. They need to realize that there are a large number of people out there that are far more technologically advanced than they are.

Hell, if they start doing DPI, then pirates will move to using SSL encryption and maybe kerberos.
How will kerberos help then Muppet! You might want to know that kerberos is an authentication protocol, not an encryption protocol. Whilst your account might get authenticated securely, the data travels as any other data would.

Time to return to your day job as your technologically challenged.... in the musik industree might we be working?

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA

1 recommendation

These Guys Would Be the Single, Largest Users of Child Por

I mean, in order to generate their "fingerprints", they'd have to have source files to fingerprint (and every variation, thereof). So as not to run afoul of law enforcement, themselves, they'd only be allowed to get the material from law-enforcement agencies. Given that the only real way that law-enforcement agencies would be able to get new material - aside from making it themselves for entrapment purposes - is to have built a case against a person and grabbed their collection as part of the arrest process. Given how long the latter process would take, it seems like it would be fairly meaningless as far as stopping the spread of that stuff (and the "making", while not unheard of, is wrong on its own). So, one must ask, even if the technology was able to block *all* file-trading technologies, what is the *real* point of it.
--
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4

Smart!

Kill off the killer app. without P2P i'd most definately drop to the lite/basic level of internet service.
--
When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee

TheSpook

@blueyonder.co.uk

That will stop you downloading SMUT!!

If your other half pays the bill each month, I wonder if an itemized bill listing the copyright holder (remember that donkey sex video you watched last night?) will deter you smut lovers from having "King Dick Hardcore Porn Inc." stamped on your monthly bill.

Also, those of you who have neglected to bolt down your routers to specific MAC addresses might want to consider it time for some security processes. And don't forget to set a password on your PC whilst your at it, and if it is anything like your email account.. well lets say its best if you choose another. (Honest, I can't believe how weak your email account password is - Ahhh the wonders of DPI)

PS. Don't forget your wireless router needs a password also, it might be best to stop your neighbors war chalking your account and downloading all those stolen music tracks when your asleep.