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story category New Jersey Stands Up For ISP User Privacy
Five privacy groups get win in fight over Comcast case...
10:51AM Tuesday Apr 22 2008 by Karl
tags: legal · privacy · consumers
Tipped by pende_tim See Profile
The New Jersey Supreme Court has become the first State court in the nation to require that ISPs must be presented with a subpoena before releasing private user data. pende_tim See Profile sends us this New York Times report that notes that New Jersey's constitution gives greater protection against unreasonable searches and seizures than the U.S. Constitution.

The case in question involved a Comcast user and New Jersey resident who argued with her boss, then allegedly changed his access passwords to a supplier's website. While the prosecutor sought a a subpoena, they didn't seek a criminal grand jury subpoena. Groups like EPIC, the EFF, the ACLU and others defended the woman, arguing the State ought to follow its own privacy rules. The ruling (pdf) agrees:
We now hold that citizens have a reasonable expectation of privacy, protected by Article I, Paragraph 7, of the New Jersey Constitution, in the subscriber information they provide to Internet service providers – just as New Jersey citizens have a privacy interest in their bank records stored by banks and telephone billing records kept by phone companies.
The Cape May County prosecutor will be seeking a grand jury subpoena and a new indictment against the woman. This was the first ruling in the nation to recognize a reasonable expectation of privacy for Internet users.

Related:
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  5. FBI: ISPs Should Retain User Data For 2 Years
  6. Republicans Pushing Telecom Immunity Vote
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  8. Escape Your Verizon Wireless Contract Without An ETF
Forums » New Jersey Stands Up For ISP User Privacy

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mb

join:2000-07-23
Washington, NJ

Good News!

I'm glad to see that we are bucking the trend here in the garden state!
Corydon
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join:2008-02-18
Denver, CO
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·Comcast

Re: Good News!

said by mb See Profile :

I'm glad to see that we are bucking the trend here in the garden state!
Indeed...I take back all my laughing at Roseanne Roseannadanna's cracks about New Jersey Good for them!
--
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moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL


moderated:
April 22nd, @02:18PM

Wait for it.....

Some will be by shortly to say this was nothing more than a procedural error and this woman will still go to court.

What they fail to realize is that this could have further implications over how other places try to get information out of an ISP.
JSRoman
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join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
·Windstream


edit:
April 22nd, @11:51AM

Re: Wait for it.....

said by moonpuppy See Profile :

Some will be by shortly to say this was nothing more than a procedural error and this woman will still go to court.

What they fail to realize is that this could have further implications over how other places try to get information out of an ISP.
The police did get a subpoena and the lady is still screwed for being stupid.
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD

Re: Wait for it.....

Read the article, they got the WRONG type subpoena.

ANY evidence collected with that subpoena is now null and void.
dcurrey

join:2004-06-29
·ViaTalk

Re: Wait for it.....

Yes but they can go back and get the correct subpoena.

''Suppression under the circumstances present here does not mean that the evidence is lost in its entirety. Comcast's records existed independently of the faulty process the police followed,'' Chief Justice Stuart Rabner wrote for the unanimous court. ''And, unlike a confession coerced from a defendant in violation of her constitutional rights, the record does not suggest that police conduct in this case in any way affected the records Comcast kept.
JSRoman
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edit:
April 22nd, @12:37PM

I read but you just jumped too soon. I said they got a subpoena not "they got the right subpoena". Most importantly "Cape May County Prosecutor Robert L. Taylor said his office will seek a grand jury subpoena and a new indictment."

I'm just wondering how much damage did this dumbass do to her boss that this is such a priority for prosecutor. I guess they are no murders or stolen cars up in Jersey.
--
»www.seabee.navy.mil

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Wait for it.....

Yeah, classic case of a minor deal being made into a major issue.

TScheisskopf
World News Trust

join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..

Re: Wait for it.....

Well, you get that in NJ. The fact is that there is a lot of prosecutors here with higher political aspirations(not all) because, at the end of the day, prosecutors can point to all the scalps they have taken, and that any infraction that has the possibility of a monetary sanction is pursued vigorously, since the state, counties and municipalities are in such dire financial straits. For instance, our traffic courts are money mills.

On the other hand, it would be nice to know what exactly this woman did to earn her such aggressive prosecutorial interest.
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19


edit:
April 22nd, @12:39PM

Re: Wait for it.....

said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

[...]it would be nice to know what exactly this woman did to earn her such aggressive prosecutorial interest.
Let's follow the money...Plaintiff, Jersey Diesel, owned by one "Yank Marine" John C. Yank, Jr., who, according to his website, has been building & repairing vessels for 40 yrs. The guy sounds fairly entrenched in an industry to me... Translation: Entrenched = Monied. NJ prosecutor didn't need anymore incentive to make this case front & center. Money was enough, particularly if he was lining his nest in prep for a run at political office. This case does not surprise me one bit. It was less about Shirely Reid than it was about the prosecutor's political ambition and Mr. Yank's money.

BTW - the opinion linked to the Jersey site notes that "Timothy Wilson" is owner of Jersey Diesel. This is incorrect. Wilson created the company in 1989 with a partner, but has since sold the company and John Yank is owner as of July 2006.

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
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Tulsa, OK
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said by TScheisskopf See Profile :

On the other hand, it would be nice to know what exactly this woman did to earn her such aggressive prosecutorial interest.
She got into an argument with her boss, and while pissed off, she logged into a supplier's website for the business, and changed his password so he couldn't log in.

They are going after her under various computer crimes laws, but really, it's way overblown.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: Wait for it.....

said by KrK See Profile :

They are going after her under various computer crimes laws, but really, it's way overblown.
The prosecutor probably had visions of making Shirley Reid the new Kevin Mitnick.
wickedwarloc

join:2005-11-17
Brimfield, MA


edit:
April 22nd, @03:18PM

Someone logged in to the vendor's site using the company ID/pwd, changing the shipping address and password before exiting. If Shirley Reid was authorized to use the account, I don't see how this is considered criminal. The vendor called her boss when they realized that the shipping address was fake (the same day). Resetting the password probably only took a couple minutes. The boss is assuming the woman did the deed but has no proof, except for the IP that the vendor logged. Second-degree computer theft (10yrs behind bars) for this? Insane!

KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Re: Wait for it.....

Exactly. What a huge crime. Nail that economy destroying terrorist!



This shouldn't even be a criminal matter.
mikenolan7
Premium
join:2005-06-07
Torrance, CA
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·RoadRunner Cable

ISP User Privacy

What is important is that everyone follows the laws. If this lady broke the law, and the prosecution follows the law and convicts her, then too bad for her. Forcing the prosecution to get the correct warrant to get information from the ISP is a good outcome. We can't expect to regain some privacy by cheering for guilty parties to get off scot free by hiding behind privacy laws. If the prosecution is politically motivated, that is another problem, not a privacy issue.

Anyone surprised by a state run by the mafia having strong privacy laws? Just kidding. What exitcha from?
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: ISP User Privacy

said by mikenolan7 See Profile :

We can't expect to regain some privacy by cheering for guilty parties to get off scot free by hiding behind privacy laws.
I didn't see anyone cheering for a "guilty" party. If she is guilty, then she is guilty. That is to be decided by a jury, not a court of public opinon. But let's have all parties involved jumping through the same legal hoops when it comes to handing over the identities associated with IP addresses. Get the correct warrant, don't just expect it to be handed over to quell personal outrage.

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said by mikenolan7 See Profile :

We can't expect to regain some privacy by cheering for guilty parties to get off scot free by hiding behind privacy laws.
Did they have the trial already and find her guilty?
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TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
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Margate City, NJ
·Comcast


edit:
April 22nd, @01:32PM

Rule applies to CRIMINAL cases only

New Jersey Supreme Court has become the first State court in the nation to require that ISPs must be presented with a subpoena before releasing private user data.
Please note that this requirement is for CRIMINAL indictments and not civil lawsuits. Civil lawsuits, like those filed by the RIAA, do not follow the same rules and have the same protections. This NJ ruling won't stop ISPs from turning over your info to the RIAA with a "John Doe" subpoena.

Also note this comment by the court decision:
»www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinio···Reid.pdf
Court also declines to adopt a requirement that notice be provided to account holders
whose information is subpoenaed
. Unscrupulous individuals aware of subpoenas could delete or damage files on
their home computers and thereby effectively shield them from legitimate investigations.

We express no view today on the appropriate standard for disclosure of ISP subscriber information in civil cases,

--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

Re: Rule applies to CRIMINAL cases only

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

[...]that this requirement is for CRIMINAL indictments and not civil lawsuits.
Where exactly are you getting that infomation from. The NJ Constitution is applicable across the board, whether civil or criminal charges are applicable.

TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
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join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
·Comcast


edit:
April 22nd, @02:32PM

Re: Rule applies to CRIMINAL cases only

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

[...]that this requirement is for CRIMINAL indictments and not civil lawsuits.
Where exactly are you getting that infomation from. The NJ Constitution is applicable across the board, whether civil or criminal charges are applicable.
I got it from the NJ Supreme Courts decision in this case.
»www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinio···Reid.pdf
We express no view today on the appropriate standard for disclosure of ISP subscriber information in civil cases,
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19


edit:
April 22nd, @02:31PM

Re: Rule applies to CRIMINAL cases only

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

I got it from the NJ Supreme Courts decision in this case.
»www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opinio···Reid.pdf
that's nice. I read the same opinion, but I want to know specifically where it states that the opinion is applicable only to criminal charges?
SilverSurfer

join:2007-08-19

said by TK Junk Mail See Profile :

We express no view today on the appropriate standard for disclosure of ISP subscriber information in civil cases,


Whether civil or criminal charges, the fact remains that the State Constitution section that applies to privacy is applicable no matter what. The fact that there wasn't a view expressed by the judiciary in the above referenced case and statement does not make it black & white that their opinion applies only criminally.

The very same argument that Ms. Reid's counsel made in her criminal case can also be applied civilly, as well. So to say that the opinion is applicable only to criminal and not civil charges is not only disingenuous, it's just plain wrong.

TK Junk Mail
Golf season has returned - hurrah
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Margate City, NJ
·Comcast

Re: Rule applies to CRIMINAL cases only

said by SilverSurfer See Profile :

The very same argument that Ms. Reid's counsel made in her criminal case can also be applied civilly, as well. So to say that the opinion is applicable only to criminal and not civil charges is not only disingenuous, it's just plain wrong.
That is YOUR opinion, FWIW.

The judges had the opportunity to apply their decision to all cases(criminal & civil), they neglected to do so despite the ACLU asking they do that in an amicus brief. My take is that they left the EXISTING civil rules as is.

So argue your case with the NJSC. They spoke and they don't agree with you.
--
My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page

ISP_4u

@charter.com

Get a new ISP

Any reputable ISP will already require a subpoena and doesn't need the state gov'ts to tell them that.

If your ISP doesn't ...time to get a new one.

just_4_fun
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ

RE: NJ

Great, in the meantime property taxes are out of control and the state is spending money like a drunken sailor. Its budget time and the politicians are devising new ways to dig into your wallet again so watch out NJ
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