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story category New RIAA Plan Going Nowhere Fast
ISPs in no rush to play copyright babysitter
10:05AM Thursday Jun 04 2009 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · Fileswapping · business · content · consumers
Late last year, the RIAA boldly announced they would be ditching mass lawsuits in favor of ISPs sending offenders warning letters, while quietly adopting a three strikes system for repeat offenders. At the time, the RIAA stated that their partner ISPs for the plan would be announced "within weeks." Six months later, CNET notes that ISPs don't seem to be in any rush to sign up as copyright cops. Interestingly, one anonymous ISP executive tells the website the RIAA was too heavy handed in their efforts to force ISPs to play along:
According to the ISP executive who asked for anonymity because he's involved in negotiations with the music sector, the RIAA's tactics in dealing with the ISPs have been too heavy handed. The executive complained that the RIAA has tried to use Andrew Cuomo to push the ISPs into helping. But Cuomo doesn't have the kind of political muscle to sway the major ISPs when they are acting well within the law, the executive said. There's nothing in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act that requires ISPs to send their own warning letters to subscribers.
Right now, it appears the ISP response-du-jour to RIAA pressure is to try and convince them that sending warning notices to P2P copyright violators will be action enough. Executives at several ISPs we've spoken to like citing a UK study that claims 72% of P2P users would stop with just a warning. However, since ISPs have been forwarding toothless DMCA letters for years with only explosive P2P growth to show for it -- that's unlikely.

ISPs clearly are wary of the PR dangers of palling around with one of the least popular organizations on the Internet, nor do they really want to start booting profitable users off of their networks because they downloaded a few episodes of House MD. It also costs money to implement content filtering technology, something that's been of particular concern to small ISPs who don't have one foot in the content industry.

AT&T has told us they're testing a letter notification system but isn't considering booting repeat offenders. Cox Communications is the only major ISP we know of that terminates repeat P2P violators -- but only after repeat notifications. Cox says they've actually only had to terminate the service of one-tenth of 1% of all users.

While some seem to think the RIAA's announcement last fall was simply about finding a PR way to back away from mass lawsuits, the reality is the agency is still consistently filing suits. It's more likely the RIAA really did think that New York AG Andrew Cuomo -- fresh of his dubious child porn ISP campaign -- could pressure ISPs into playing copyright cop. Now that this tactic has failed, you can expect greater pressure on the RIAA lawyer-stocked Obama Administration to pass new laws that force ISPs to play Internet babysitter.

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Forums » New RIAA Plan Going Nowhere Fast
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

profits

DPI and other packet scanning for the sake if enforcing RIAA agenda isnt profitable.

ISPs are more likely to go with caps and overage fees then booting the said people for pirating movies and music. and until the law changes it will be the angle investors seek. as playing Enforcer for the RIAA/MAFIAA isnt profitable.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

knightmb
Everybody Lies

join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
·AT&T DSL Service

Re: profits

said by Kearnstd See Profile :

DPI and other packet scanning for the sake if enforcing RIAA agenda isnt profitable.

ISPs are more likely to go with caps and overage fees then booting the said people for pirating movies and music. and until the law changes it will be the angle investors seek. as playing Enforcer for the RIAA/MAFIAA isnt profitable.
I think they are targeting more of the casual pirate person than the heavy users because if my ISP had a 200GB cap, that would be tons of music and hundreds of movies, so how much good would either really do?

I agree though, the packet scanning software is useless in the century of high powered encryption and software available for all platforms that support encryption from point to point.
--
Fight Insight Ready (Was NebuAD) and the like:
Click Here to pollute their data

baineschile
2600
Premium
join:2008-05-10
Sterling Heights, MI
·Comcast
·magicjack.com
·Verizon Wireless B..

The industry

If the industry wasnt so greedy for so many years (18.99 for a 9 track CD at Harmony House!?!?!?) people wouldnt pirate so much. They have pushed and pushed to hold their own business model, and now its too late. They tried having DRM MP3s, which was also another gigantic failure.

They should have embraced Napster when they had the chance; and opportunity for their music to be heard on every channel available.

Up next, in about 4 years, is the MPAA.

I hope the ISPs never have to play cops. They should be the pipe, not the police of all content over it.

working

@spcsdns.net

Re: The industry

the guy from metallica started all this crap.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net

Re: The industry

said by working :

the guy from metallica started all this crap.
I have always wondered how many people, because of what Metallica did, P2P'ed their music just to poke them in the eyes, and Na-Na-Nee-Na-Na.
--
I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's.
- Mark Twain in Eruption
Pv8man

join:2008-07-24
Hammond, IN

Re: The industry

LOL, Metalica was the first thing I ever downloaded,
back in the days of Napster.

And I did it purely out of spite
(Even though I already had two of their albums)
TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA

said by Transmaster See Profile :

I have always wondered how many people, because of what Metallica did, P2P'ed their music just to poke them in the eyes, and Na-Na-Nee-Na-Na.
Not me, I already had all their albums that were worth having. Everything from that horrible "Black" album on sucked, and I wouldn't have wasted the time it took to download any of it.

CO_Chris
Premium
join:2001-08-28
Broomfield, CO
said by working :

the guy from metallica started all this crap.
That dude is an @ss Hole. The ORG napster was da $hit..

mrchris
We don't miss you Bush
Premium
join:2002-10-01
North Babylon, NY
said by working :

the guy from metallica started all this crap.
Lars Ulrich (the drummer) is the asshole you are speaking of.

metallicasux

@verizon.com

Re: The industry

lol i downloaded all the metallica catalog just so i could say i deleted it.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

said by baineschile See Profile :

Up next, in about 4 years, is the MPAA.
I agree, but it sure would be nice to dissuade the MPAA from heading down that road farther than they have to. Leaks haven't harmed opening box offices, and I can attest via my 25-year-old tech-savvy daughter that DVD sales still happen in a world where file-sharing is easy.

Hollywood can be so low-tech sometimes.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
cornelius785

join:2006-10-26
Worcester, MA

I also really hope the the ISPs don't become the internet police. I'm sort of suprised that some police organization/union hasn't gotten into this mad brawl of the MAFIAA, piraters, regular internet users, ISPs, and artists. I suppose the 'ISP police' could fall under citizen's arrest laws, but the liability seems too much to risk as the ISP as the ISP would be the one to get charged with whatever, not the MAFIAA.

funchords
Hello
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-11
Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
·Skype

DMCA letters aren't ignored

quotes from the lead-in:
Executives at several ISPs we've spoken to like citing a UK study that claims 72% of P2P users would stop with just a warning.
Cox Communications is the only major ISP we know of that terminates repeat P2P violators -- but only after repeat notifications. Cox says they've actually only had to terminate the service of one-tenth of 1% of all users.
The Cox experience tends to show the effectiveness of the current notifications against those that would be the most egregious copyrighted-material file-sharers.

In a world where anyone with free software and free websites can record, master, promote and distribute their own music, who needs a record company? But as long as file sharing is around, the RIAA members will have a scapegoat to blame for everything that ails the industry. Everything, that is, except for themselves.
--
Robb Topolski -= funchords.com =- District of Columbia -- KJ7RL
robl27
Premium
join:2008-07-16
Mary Esther, FL

Re: DMCA letters aren't ignored

peer guarian works - trust me:»phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
Mr Matt

join:2008-01-29
Eustis, FL
·Comcast
·Embarq

Music Industry mad can no longer overcharge consumers.

The music industry is angry because they can no longer overcharge consumers.

1) Before the commercial release of the first Compact Disc in 1983, several record labels announced the price for a Premium Digitally Mastered CD would be $12.98. A Philips representative I spoke to stated that the hardware side of the music industry believed that the cost of Compact Discs would decrease as manufacturing techniques improved to increase yield. In the early days of CD production 50% of CD's had to be discarded because of manufacturing defects.

2) In early 1983 the first Compact Discs were released.

3) By the middle of 1983, because of the tremendous demand, record stores placed a $4.00 Premium on Compact Discs. Compact Discs that had a catalog price of $12.95 now sold for $16.95. Record stores even charged $16.95 for Compact Discs that were intended to be sold for the budget price of $7.95 for $16.95. Who kept the extra profits? Non other than the record store owners.

4) In 1984 performers sued the RIAA because they were receiving copyright fees based on an MSRP of $12.95 when the record stores were actually selling the product of their work for $16.95. Performers prevailed and the list price of Compact Discs were raised to $16.95.

5) Unfortunately for consumers there were enough customers still buying Compact Discs at inflated prices to continue to support the inflated prices.

6) By the mid 1990's most record collectors had replaced their record collections with Compact Discs. The outrageous price for Compact Discs could no longer be supported.

7) Rather than lowering prices the record labels raised prices further cutting demand.

8) Fortunately for the RIAA the Internet and Computer CD Drives became available to be used as a scape goat for a decrease in Compact Disc sales.

Jigsaw
Stardust We Are
Premium
join:2000-10-21
Cleveland, OH

Re: Music Industry mad can no longer overcharge consumers.

Sounds like they dint think there Evil Plan all the way thou..

winsyrstrife
River City Bounce
Premium
join:2002-04-30
Brooklyn, NY
clubs:
I really think you should have labeled this post: "Rise and Fall of the RIAA"
axiomatic

join:2006-08-23
Tomball, TX

Good luck cox

Good luck with those dwindling profits there Cox. When you alienate one customer you can guarantee that word of mouth from the "canned" customer will loose you a few more.

You can only keep this up for so long. "I'm game, we'll see who blinks first."
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Floral Park, NY

riaa should surrender old bus. model

Honestly.. an 75-800mb file transfers in just minutes with today's broadband connections.. so the RIAA is on the wrong side of history.. IF they were smart (which they're not) they'd evolve the business model to get corporate sponsors of artists instead of trying to drag every last cent out of the public.. they're not that stupid anymore and most won't pay a lawsuit judgement (on principle) even if they had the money to burn.

So what's left? Sure, still sell a legal digital product & physical ones, if they must.. but leave the consumer alone (YOU'D SELL MORE PRODUCT WITH HONEY, THAN TAR). Unless someone stands on the corner in front of the RIAA office selling pre-releases. LEAVE THEM THE "F" ALONE!!!

fonzbear2000
Premium
join:2005-08-09
Saint Paul, MN

Good for the ISP's!

If you buy a car, the dealership isn't responsible if you speed. If you buy a gun, the place you buy it from isn't responsible if you use it illegally. So ISP's shouldn't be responsible for what you download or share.
--
»For the TRUTH about president Obama...

sivran
Long Live The Suite
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
clubs:
·RoadRunner Cable

Re: Good for the ISP's!

The ISPs would also be setting a precedent dangerous both for themselves and their customers. If they agreed to filter now, they could easily have put themselves in position to be pushed into even more costly filtering later on.

Any ISP implementing filters would also be at a competitive disadvantage with ISPs who don't. Kinda like the whole cap 'n meter thing. The other ISPs are perfectly content to wait and see whether TWC-RR throws itself off a cliff or cracks open a goldmine. True, AT&T's experimenting with the same, but doing it much more quietly, and only in places where TWC-RR's already doing it.
--
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon profitable cause...
NormanS
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC

said by fonzbear2000 See Profile :

If you buy a gun, the place you buy it from isn't responsible if you use it illegally.
So far ... the "Brady Bunch" would change that, if they could.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Forums » New RIAA Plan Going Nowhere Fast


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