 
ronpin
Imagine Reality
join:2002-12-06
Nirvana
edit:
February 11th, @12:55PM
| Great :( ...not only can they silently open my mic -- they can know precisely where I am at all times. Not me.
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...Attacking America's enemies like a scorned astronaut | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: Great :( said by ronpin  :...not only can they silently open my mic -- they can know precisely where I am at all times. Not me. If you've carried a phone in the last 5 years, you were locatable by emergency services. All this is for is allowing you to take advantage of the technology that you're already carrying.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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i1me2ao
join:2001-03-03
TEXAS | Re: Great :( even if you disable option?? | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: Great :( said by i1me2ao :even if you disable option?? It only disables it for non-emergency applications. In other words, emergency services can still use it, you just can't use it with "where am I" or "where's my friend" applications.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal i second tch | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs:
edit:
February 11th, @02:30PM
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal Mapping out directions before is good. But sometimes you may take a wrong turn, sometimes you may miss an exit, sometimes, it is nice to have it calculate out your directions that you didn't initially plan for. It is also nice to hear the estimated time until you arrive, see up to date traffic situations (XMnav) as well as have someone reading the directions to me when I don't have a human navigator (helps with saftey since i can keep my eyes on the road more). Helps reduce the human error. It is not perfect but a great tool. Try one out and you will appreciate it. This is not for getting directions to the local grocery store or the local gym. If it is so local and close to home you probably don't need gps. Also you may find quicker routes home when you have the visual map realtime in front of you. I have had gps on my laptop for years and i love it, just not lugging around the laptop.
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| said by kyramilan :It is funny how people forget there are what is known as "Maps" to guide you. I do think they hide that fact in what is known as "books." Oh... You're "that guy." You know: the one that's cruising down I-95, wavering between lanes, not looking at the road or surrounding traffic because you're too busy trying to navigate with a paper map.
No thanks: I'll keep my XM-enabled Garmin, thank you very much.
-tom
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"Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the government's purposes are beneficial. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding." -Louis D Brandeis | |
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kyramilan
join:2006-11-26
Pensacola, FL
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·1and1
·Cox HSI
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal said by nixen :said by kyramilan :It is funny how people forget there are what is known as "Maps" to guide you. I do think they hide that fact in what is known as "books." Oh... You're "that guy." You know: the one that's cruising down I-95, wavering between lanes, not looking at the road or surrounding traffic because you're too busy trying to navigate with a paper map. No thanks: I'll keep my XM-enabled Garmin, thank you very much. -tom No, actually I'm that cute little blonde in that BIG SUV that stops mainly to use a C-note to fill-up and to get junk food. I also drive about 90 mph. And, no, I don't have a poodle just a lead foot. And, my tag really does read Supergirl. | |
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calvoiper
join:2003-03-31
Belvedere Tiburon, CA
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by kyramilan :It is funny that I can navigate NYC and can't navigate some Florida cities that have streets with 4 different names. How to understand Florida streets, as deduced in the Tampa Bay area:
1. Half the major streets are under construction.
2. Half the clear major streets don't go through.
3. Half of the clear and through major streets change names every 11 blocks.
All you need to do is base your navigation on the one-eighth of the major streets that aren't under construction, go through, and maintain their identity.
(And BTW, I'm with kyramilan on maps--it's easier to realize that a street has a name change on a large map than on a small screen.)
calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies! | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| said by TK Junk Mail :This does seem like a product in search of a customer. GPS, while it does have some deadspots, is very close to universal coverage. Adding a Wifi location component to cover the very few areas not covered by GPS seems like adding cost for no real advantage. The problem with GPS is that it has very poor coverage on the ground in heavily populated areas. Wifi fortunately does cover that very well as you mentioned 
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy
edit:
February 11th, @08:57PM
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal WiFi is worse than two cans and a string put together. If the WiFi is protected the service is useless. Company is relying on open AP's to use there service. GPS has some dead spots in the city but if I where them I would look for a better solution and I think we already have it. It's called A-GPS I have used it using Sprint Family Locator. It's pretty darn accurate by a good 10-30ft without having to find a satellite signal.
Of course if the satellites where picked up we are talking about inches in accuracy. Not only that but you can also tell how fast that GPS receiver is going, where is it turning, etc.
People keep on thinking WiFi is some beautiful solution when it's not. It's true purpose was to provide consumers with wireless coverage inside there homes and preferably used for laptop's. WiFi without WPA2 is as close to useless at best and even though 802.11n provides speed's faster than any other type of consumer wireless technology it's for home or office use and nothing more.
911 in cellphones operate by first placing the call and trying to pick up your location by satellite, if that fails it fallbacks on the towers location and transfers you to the correct 911 department in your area. When deadspots occur that's the biggest issue but GPS although a old technology is still a technology which is useful in many ways for emergency services.
Frankly I wouldn't rely on someone's "WiFi" on a emergency call and on top of that it's really a useless idea to add WiFi to a phone and what should be really looked at is improving the network a product is on.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal said by Michieru :WiFi is worse than two cans and a string put together. If the WiFi is protected the service is useless. Company is relying on open AP's to use there service. GPS has some dead spots in the city but if I where them I would look for a better solution and I think we already have it. It's called A-GPS I have used it using Sprint Family Locator. It's pretty darn accurate by a good 10-30ft without having to find a satellite signal. Of course if the satellites where picked up we are talking about inches in accuracy. Not only that but you can also tell how fast that GPS receiver is going, where is it turning, etc. If I understand the technology correctly, like A-GPS it is relying on specific servers, not just any server, to create the location assessment.
Inches of accuracy is a dramatic overstatement. Even with a full four satellites, most low power units get 30 feet of accuracy, 15 at best if they can pick up a full constellation of satellites. You can only get inches of accuracy with differential GPS which requires multiple high power units.
A-GPS does require a satellite signal to function. It does not require fixed signals though as it can process a signal snapshot. This can make the unit appear to function without a satellite signal, but in reality it is operating off the most recent set of unfixed satellite signals. The biggest advantage of A-GPS is that it can function with low power units that cannot do the on the fly processing required to get an accurate GPS fix. The A-GPS also has network receivers which allow differential-like function to improve accuracy. Without server access or satellite access though, A-GPS is useless.
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal I have used a Nextel i710 to test the features of AGPS and I left the phone right next to my window pointing north. At a non moving position the phone was located directly using a mere 4 satellites to pinpoint it's location. So when I say inches of accuracy I am not bluffing although when your on the go your outside most likely in a car or simply walking down the street where the GPS signal will be stronger and be able to pick up more satellites compared to indoor use where it could fail.
I moved my i710 inside the home and it used A-GPS from there and it showed I was outside the street when I was not and the phone was actually in the bathroom. A good 25ft or so.
Also considering that every provider has a mass network unlike WiFi connecting to servers will not be a problem as long as you have coverage even in a roaming area. The only place where you will lose complete signal could possibly be in the middle of Canada but your in plain wilderness and simply pointing your phone to the sky will give you a very good GPS reading.
A-GPS could be thought of as a hybrid and I have tried it in locations where I had no signal (during hurricane Wilma) and the GPS locked on just fine. the biggest backdraw of these "low powered" units as you state is that they require at least a good minute or so to actually get a signal from a satellite or any other report for that matter but once they are up and running you can refresh the GPS as many times as you like.
I had my phone in a advanced menu where it could tell the rate of speed I was traveling and the distance between the last refresh and the other refresh. So I would hardly call A-GPS useless and to think WiFi is in somewhat par with A-GPS is laughable at best.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
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marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal said by Michieru :I have used a Nextel i710 to test the features of AGPS and I left the phone right next to my window pointing north. At a non moving position the phone was located directly using a mere 4 satellites to pinpoint it's location. So when I say inches of accuracy I am not bluffing although when your on the go your outside most likely in a car or simply walking down the street where the GPS signal will be stronger and be able to pick up more satellites compared to indoor use where it could fail. [...] So I would hardly call A-GPS useless and to think WiFi is in somewhat par with A-GPS is laughable at best. The question is though, how did you know the exact latitude and longitude of your window?
(and 4 satellites is level required for full 3-d accuracy, more satellites just increases the speed of fixing the location)
I didn't call A-GPS useless, I just said it had the same requirements (server access) as WPS.
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ISCABBS - the oldest and largest BBS on the Internet
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Professional Geographer
Geographic Information Science researcher | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal Because you have a map and street level view. It provided the coordinates and I input that into Google Earth and it came up right next to my window.
The only major advantage for AGPS has is that it's transmitted over a huge nationwide network, compared to WiFi where one second it's there and then it's gone.
It lacks mobility, but maybe if A-GPS was improved we don't need to come up with new solutions and simply improve the one's we currently have.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
| | | | | | JaredRocco
join:2007-02-12
Hingham, MA
| Ah, put it' next to my window'? Why - BECAUSE IT WON'T WORK INDOORS. And how long did it take you to get the first time to fix?
WiFi - like GPS - is not the ultimate location solution but it does augment GPS very well. For all the use cases you stated, that's fine and great IF you can get a signal and IF you can get it in a timely manner. GPS can't give that to you all the time and neither can WiFi but together they do very well. | |
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Michieru
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
·Speakeasy
| Re: Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal It does work inside, probably have assed and obviously not as accurate but it works.
I don't know maybe there is something wrong with people today.
A-GPS coverage = whole United States/Central America and possibly South America.
WiFi coverage = 30ft.
Considering that I live in one of the most populated cities in the United States and I can load a wireless scanner right now and the only thing close is my AP. It just goes to show how successful your crappy product will work since the only place you could probably check your location will be the local starbucks or some AP provided by a hotel nearby.
GPS probably takes 45-50 seconds to warm up unlike WiFi but to say GPS compares to WiFi is just ludicrous. Clearly GPS or AGPS has a clear advantage over anything WiFi can offer at this point.
This is not innovation, this is just stupidity.
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The only limits we have are the one's we set ourselves. | |
| ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL | All we need is.. More Cowbell. | |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs: | Is there an off switch? As long as I can turn off the GPS OK. I really don't want cell companies knowing that I go to a particular church or AA meetings.
I know what you are going to say, FOR GOD'S SAKE, WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN. | |
| | stridr69
join:2003-05-19
San Luis Obispo, CA | Re: Is there an off switch? Yep, there's an off switch.
Simply remove the battery.
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Is there an off switch? said by stridr69 :Yep, there's an off switch. Simply remove the battery. Then the phone will not work. | |
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Telly Boot
Premium
join:2002-05-15
Vancouver, BC
·TELUS
| Location, location, location... The "gps" is always on, however the manufacturers manuals are not particularly informative on this topic ( compared with say, downloading ringtones...). The Samsung a640 that my wife's employer just sent her has "Position Location" but it isn't mentioned in the manual, except as an icon. On my Nokia it's called "Location Sharing" and is explained, sort of, but the options are : "On" or "Emergency". However it's always On when the phone is on, except the data is available to Emergency Personnel only, when it's switched to "Emergency"; this being an e-911 legal requirement. Mind you, if you're in a rural area and happen to skid into a creek out of line of sight of towers, I'm not sure how accurate and helpful it actually would be. I'm also not sure if anyone has been fired for being located at the ski hill while taking a "Mental Health" day, however it clearly could happen with most new phones, and most cellphone users aren't aware of it. The main idea is for retail tie-ins in future, where you will get a broadcast from a nearby store, and presumably the helpful cellphone service provider will get a few cents of each transaction.
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Dawn,n,The time when men of reason go to bed. (Ambrose Bierce.) | |
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New Technology Improves GPS Service for Cell Phones
Product seems like overkill; GPS by itself is near universal