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New iPhones Don't Support Sprint's TD-LTE Upgrades
Apple's new 5C and 5S models won't support the 2.5 GHz spectrum Sprint plans to use for the company's TD-LTE network, company executives confirmed this week. While Apple claims the new iPhones support more bands "than any other smartphone in the world" (you can see their full band support here), they don't support Band 41. Sprint's currently using spectrum obtained by Clearwire to deploy TD-LTE on some 5,500 cell towers by year's end, delivering users significantly faster speeds than the 8 Mbps most see now. "We don't control their product roadmap," Sprint CFO Joe Euteneuer stated at this week's Bank of America Merrill Lynch Media, Communications & Entertainment Conference. "I wish we did."
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IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

WTF Apple...

Still no support for simultaneous voice and data... And now this, on a Sprint specific model.

Pathetic.

I'm guessing no support for LTE Advanced either...
ahubbard
join:2001-06-22
Olney, MD

ahubbard

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

Lack of simultaneous voice and data is a Sprint/Verizon limitation, because they run voice over CDMA. Works great on AT&T (and probably T-mobile, but I can't verify).

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

Yes, simultaneous voice/data is supported on the iPhone through AT&T/T-Mobile.

Other phone makes can do simultaneous voice/data on Verizon.
--> »www.droid-life.com/2012/ ··· over-3g/

Those phones are specifically designed to get around CDMA's limitations and provide this capability. The iPhone isn't. That's Apple's choice.

Qumahlin
Never Enough Time
MVM
join:2001-10-05
united state

Qumahlin

MVM

Re: WTF Apple...

Did you read the article you linked? They were only able to do what you described by tricking the phone...doesn't exactly sound like an inbuilt feature.

nightdesigns
Gone missing, back soon
Premium Member
join:2002-05-31
AZ

nightdesigns to ahubbard

Premium Member

to ahubbard
I have a HTC on sprint and can do voice and data no problem.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

Re: WTF Apple...

My Motorola handset can do simul. voice and data as well. From what I have been reading though this feature is going away over time in many of the new handsets for sprint and i assume verizon.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to ahubbard

Member

to ahubbard
said by ahubbard:

Lack of simultaneous voice and data is a Sprint/Verizon limitation, because they run voice over CDMA.

That only applies in CDMA-only areas. My Galaxy Nexus can maintain an active LTE connection while in the midst of a phone call. So can the LTE-enabled Motorola phones I have access to.

No reason why the iPhone can't do simultanous LTE data and CDMA voice, unless Steve Jobs decided you didn't "need" that functionality, ya know, like you don't "need" cut and paste, Flash, a right mouse button, or any of the other useful features Apple declines to include with their products.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

»www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· AP1lzweU


Perhaps the iPhone's simultaneous voice/data support (SVDO) on AT&T/T-Mobile is accidental.

I think it's ridiculous to have half of a product line do SVDO (AT&T/T-Mobile) and the other half not. (Verizon/Sprint)

That's not a carrier limitation. That's an Apple limitation.

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

OSUGoose

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

No SVDO is a key feature of GSM networks.

There is a ton of technical reasons why CDMA cant do it that I wont get into.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

They've been "gotten into"...

»www.anandtech.com/show/6 ··· support-

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

OSUGoose

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

Finaly a good write up I canrefer people to

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

It's a good writeup. But it still doesn't excuse it. It's technically possible, even if Apple doesn't want to do it. Clearly, this isn't a priority for Apple. I think it's ridiculous to have half the product line support a feature and the other half not. Blaming it on carriers doesn't excuse it.
snarf7
join:2013-08-31

snarf7

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

The gs3 for sprint does svdo on 3g and lte
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks to OSUGoose

Member

to OSUGoose
said by OSUGoose:

There is a ton of technical reasons why CDMA cant do it that I wont get into.

Which don't apply to LTE data connections, even if the phone relies on CDMA for voice.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec to OSUGoose

Premium Member

to OSUGoose
said by OSUGoose:

There is a ton of technical reasons why CDMA cant do it that I wont get into.

Why dont you get into it? I just did it on my sprint device while only connected to EVDO. So what is the technical reason for why I didnt do it?

The issue is easily addressed. An extra radio in the device.

SteelerRaw
@accelerint.com

SteelerRaw to OSUGoose

Anon

to OSUGoose
said by OSUGoose:

No SVDO is a key feature of GSM networks.

There is a ton of technical reasons why CDMA cant do it that I wont get into.

Actually, the term SVDO is CDMA exclusive as it refers to simultaneous voice and EV-DO data. GSM networks obviously don't use EV-DO.

Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium Member
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR

Selenia to OSUGoose

Premium Member

to OSUGoose
Totally irrelevant, since we were not talking about SvD on 3G but rather how pathetic the iPhone is for not supporting an LTE(data only) connection while on a call over CDMA(1x or EvDO) since Verizon/Sprint do not support VoLTE. It was a design decision by Apple to have 1 less radio in the handset, which is rather pathetic with these iToys as any other LTE handset ever made can support a voice call over CDMA while connected to LTE data. But then again, the original iPhone didn't support MMS or 3G when feature phones supported both. What's next, Crapple? Are you going to reduce it down to 1 radio so we can't be on wifi and call at the same time and call it a design feature as well? Ultra light and thin, just don't expect to do shit with it. But hey, it's pretty and shiny!!!! Btw, the reason it can support SvD on ATT/T-Mo is the fact it does not need to tune 2 frequencies(and have 2 radios like everyone else) to do so, as those companies support WCDMA for voice. Apple: Pay more, do less.
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

It's a size and battery life thing. Why should I, as an AT&T user, be forced to deal with a bigger less sleek iPhone so people on Verizon's primitive network can get a hack to get a feature a modernized network would support on any phone?
meowmeow

meowmeow to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks
No, Apple wasn't willing to sacrifice battery life and phone size to create a Verizon/Sprint specific model that could do this but be thicker and have shorter battery life. Good choice. Verizon and Sprint COULD have modernised their network years ago, but no. They chose to be one of the very few (along with Au/KDDI in Japan) to not move from CDMA to UMTS. Almost all CDMA carriers did.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

What incentive did VZW or Sprint have to move to UMTS when LTE was on the horizon? It offered no advantage over CDMA for voice and precious little advantage over EVDO for data. They would have spent billions of dollars to move to a new system that would be obsolete in a few years. Doing so would have required them to waste a good chunk of the spectrum they are now devoting to LTE, compelled tens of millions of customers to replace their perfectly functional CDMA devices, and saddled them with yet another legacy network they'd have to maintain.

VZW and Sprint made the right call in staying away from UMTS.

I think it's a stupid design compromise on the part of Apple, but on the bright side I now have another arrow in the quiver when it comes time to rain on the Apple fanboy parade.

koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

koolman2

Premium Member

Re: WTF Apple...

I think he's referring to years ago when networks were first launching 3G. Most CDMA carriers, instead of investing in EvDO, revamped their network with UMTS.
Crookshanks
join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY

Crookshanks

Member

Re: WTF Apple...

What American CDMA provider(s) opted for UMTS instead of EvDO? The rest of the world may have gone in that direction, but not in the United States or Canada.

koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

koolman2

Premium Member

Re: WTF Apple...

That's the point...

Canadian companies Telus and Bell did so. Their 3G network is UMTS, 2G is CDMA.
meowmeow
join:2003-07-26
Helena, MT

meowmeow to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks
said by Crookshanks:

What American CDMA provider(s) opted for UMTS instead of EvDO? The rest of the world may have gone in that direction, but not in the United States or Canada.

None. MTPCS moved CDMA to GSM, but no one here moved CDMA to UMTS. Most of the world did (except, also, Au/KDDI and one in China forced by license to be CDMA).
matthewyip
join:2007-12-01
Rosemead, CA

matthewyip to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks
Verizon never use any CDMA spectrum for LTE build out and Sprint only use a partial of its CDMA spectrum for LTE build out because they didn't bid for any new spectrum for LTE build out like AT&T and Verizon.
The Canadian networks Telus and Bell are good examples for transiting from CDMA2000/EVDO to UMTS/HSPA network. I personally tried the Telus HSPA network while travelling to Canada and found its network is superior. I used my AT&T Galaxy S2 LTE and I got HSPA signal everywhere and even LTE signal. The big 3 carriers in Canada, Rogers, Telus, and Bell, carries the same version of same phones, unlike we have different versions of same phones for each carrier in US. What's the benefit of it? You can switch to another carrier easily if you want to keep using the same phone!

SteelerRaw
@accelerint.com

SteelerRaw to meowmeow

Anon

to meowmeow
said by meowmeow:

No, Apple wasn't willing to sacrifice battery life and phone size to create a Verizon/Sprint specific model that could do this but be thicker and have shorter battery life. Good choice. Verizon and Sprint COULD have modernised their network years ago, but no. They chose to be one of the very few (along with Au/KDDI in Japan) to not move from CDMA to UMTS. Almost all CDMA carriers did.

There was little incentive to overlay their networks with UMTS just to have another costly upgrade to LTE a couple of years later. It's also amusing that to this day the CDMA networks of Bell and Telus up in Canada are still larger than their UMTS networks.

If there is an entity to be upset with, it's Verizon since they effectively killed EV-DV (which would have allowed for simultaneous voice and data) in favor of EV-DO.
matthewyip
join:2007-12-01
Rosemead, CA

matthewyip to Crookshanks

Member

to Crookshanks
The reason why iPhone doesn't support simultanous LTE data and CDMA voice is Apple chose not to build a second antenna for LTE radio in the iPhone. Other Sprint/Verizon Android phones can do simultanous LTE data and CDMA voice because these phones have the second antenna to support both LTE and CDMA connections at the same time. The disadvantage to have simultanous LTE data and CDMA voice is shorten battery life which Apple doesn't want to sacrifice, and also VoLTE is on the way soon so it shouldn't be a problem anymore when Sprint/Verizon rolls out VoLTE

Grothendieck
Premium Member
join:2002-07-28
Miami, FL

Grothendieck to ahubbard

Premium Member

to ahubbard
Please stop spreading false information.

The Galaxy S3 on Sprint can do simultaneous voice and data over EVDO (3G) as well as over LTE.
88615298 (banned)
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

88615298 (banned) to ahubbard

Member

to ahubbard
said by ahubbard:

Lack of simultaneous voice and data is a Sprint/Verizon limitation, because they run voice over CDMA. Works great on AT&T (and probably T-mobile, but I can't verify).

hate to break it to you but Android phones have been doing voice and data together for years. Its not a Verizon issue it's an APPLE issue.

koolman2
Premium Member
join:2002-10-01
Anchorage, AK

koolman2

Premium Member

Re: WTF Apple...

It's the fact that it requires an additional antenna inside the device. UMTS doesn't require anything additional to do simultaneous data and voice, so yes, it is a CDMA issue. The fact that the iPhone doesn't support this mode isn't Apple being lazy, it's them not wanting to sacrifice space and/or weight for it.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

3rd place Sprint gets no respect from Apple

I bet the new 5c and 5s iPhones support the LTE roadmaps of AT&T and Verizon. Maybe Sprint has to promise Apple a new boatload of money to get a new iPhone that supports Sprint's LTE plans.


••••••

DaSneaky1D
what's up
MVM
join:2001-03-29
The Lou

DaSneaky1D

MVM

This is Sprint's fault

What other major Sprint handset is ready to support all three LTE bands?

Joe Euteneuer saying, "we don't control their roadmap" means little when they're able to control their own. Why would a manufacturer build towards uncertainty?

••••••

Camarillo
@ventura.ca.us

Camarillo

Anon

Any bands?

Does this mean that if I stay with Sprint, get an iPhone 5s, and when LTE is rolled out to my city, I won't be able to read any LTE bands? Would I still be stuck on 3G?

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Any bands?

No. You'll be able to be on LTE from Sprint... just not on all the frequencies it's deploying.

pablumatic
@spcsdns.net

pablumatic

Anon

8mbps?

"8mbps most see now"? Must be in the few areas Sprint actually has 4G coverage in.

I'm lucky to see 0.4mbps on my Sprint service.

••••

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Change in Sprint's strategy...

»www.fiercewireless.com/s ··· 13-07-30

Steve Elfman, president of network operations at Sprint, noted during the company's second-quarter earnings conference call that Sprint now plans to deploy Clearwire's 2.5 GHz spectrum on all 38,000 of its planned Network Vision cell sites and even more sites than that in a nationwide rollout. Previously, Sprint had said it would use Clearwire's spectrum as a "hotspot" LTE network to offload traffic in urban markets.

In an interview with FierceWireless, Euteneuer said SoftBank's $21.6 billion acquisition--which includes $5 billion in new capital and allowed Sprint to buy Clearwire--spurred Sprint to make the shift in strategy. The move will let Sprint add more capacity to its own FDD-LTE network, which it is still in the process of being built out. Euteneuer noted that Sprint and Clearwire originally planned to deploy Clearwire's spectrum on around 5,000 cell sites as an offload network in urban markets. Those plans are still proceeding this year, but Sprint now wants to expand that to improve the customer experience.

-----> Makes this even more ridiculous, especially when combined with China Mobile's requirement.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts

Member

800

But they do support Sprint's 800mhz LTE, which is arguably more important than the 2.5ghz offering due to Sprint's often "optimistic" site density.

Metatron2008
You're it
Premium Member
join:2008-09-02
united state

Metatron2008

Premium Member

Apple needs to sell you the iphone 6 remember?

They don't support wireless AC or nfc either. Apple wouldn't support technology that is just emerging or going to emerge, or what a company plans to use, they'll support it when it's used for 6 months plus so you have a reason to buy their newest iPhone!
dudeman456
join:2005-04-29
New York, NY

dudeman456

Member

Re: Apple needs to sell you the iphone 6 remember?

That's funny because Apple's own router AirPort Extreme supports 802.11AC.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: Apple needs to sell you the iphone 6 remember?

Reasons to buy vs. reasons to wait.... I have a feeling Apple tries to make them equal, and then releases the phone.

swintec
Premium Member
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME

swintec

Premium Member

They were probably uncertain..

The device was more than likely designed and close to production when Sprint was inking the deal with Softbank and Clearwire over this past summer. Would be foolish for them to stop everything to make this change. All of this was ironed out on apples side quite awhile ago i am sure long before sprint figured out its recent game plan.

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman
join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC

IPPlanMan

Member

Re: They were probably uncertain..

Doesn't change the fact that China Mobile is requiring all devices to support Band 41 by 2014.

»seekingalpha.com/article ··· o-invest

This Band support should have been baked in from the beginning, Sprint's indecision aside.

Apple's actions here defy logic.
though
join:2003-12-03
Lincoln, NE

though

Member

note3

it's possible that the note 3 may not be "tri-band" as well. the chipsets simply may not have been ready when these phones went into production...

cchhat01
Dr. Zoidberg
join:2001-05-01
Elmhurst, NY

cchhat01

Member

no one has mentioned anything about 2.5GHz

although apple is partly to blame for having omitted support for 2.5GHz TD-LTE (Sprint), but what about the fact that there's too much fragmentation about LTE Frequency bands? I mean already we're in 700/1700 and now 2.5GHz. Also, one thing to note, 2.5GHz would have a very short wavelength and would make is susceptible to signal loss indoors. People making decisions about cell radio networks need to have their brains flushed and adjusted to make sane decisions. Frequency band fragmentation only hurts service providers because they would need to wait for device manufacturers to include said frequencies in their manufacturing efforts. And that needs incentive. A device manufacturer would be out of their mind to not support 700MHz LTE because it is widely deployed. However, they wouldn't think twice about omitting 2.5GHz TD-LTE support if that means the device gets produced quicker (less testing and development), and still be marketed to major players.

On top of the already wide list of frequencies utilized for GSM/HSPA/CDMA, we now have more fragmentation in LTE. The purpose of LTE and LTE-A was to unify the cellular communication globally. I think its failing miserably. And even if it starts to work in that direction, we're years away from being truly global in cell radio communications because we still need to shut down legacy CDMA and GSM network and that aint happening fast enough.

nuff said

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

Re: no one has mentioned anything about 2.5GHz

But the phone DOES support 2.5GHz in bands 7 (2500-2690, FDD) and 38 (2570-2620, TDD), just not band 41 (2496-2690, TDD).

/M
BiggA
Premium Member
join:2005-11-23
Central CT
·Frontier FiberOp..
Asus RT-AC68

BiggA to cchhat01

Premium Member

to cchhat01
The bands are a problem, the propagation is not because Sprint can fall back on PCS and SMR, and offloading users close to the tower onto the higher-bandwidth, higher-frequency connection leaves more bandwidth on the lower frequencies for users far away or deep into buildings.