 bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
1 edit | Well, spammers, you see... You guys certainly may have the right to try to get your message out on the Internet via spam, but we as end users and systems/network administrators also have the right not to listen or put up with your garbage mail if we don't want to... Especially if that mail is increasing our bottom line or the time we spend sifting through our mail box.
edit-fixed Subj/Verb agreement | |
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
 ·Speakeasy
| Re: Well, spammers, you see... said by bmn  :You guys certainly may have the right to try to get your message out on the Internet via spam, but we as end users and systems/network administrators also have the right not to listen or put up with your garbage mail if we don't want to... Especially if that mail is increasing our bottom line or the time we spend sifting through our mail box. edit-fixed Subj/Verb agreement As applied elsewhere "your freedom of speech (to spam) ends at my property line (edge routers)".
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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| TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA | And I thought that spammers gave up years ago trying to tell us their crap was protected free speech.
I wonder what our friend Taurus has to say about all this? She's strangely silent in this thread. | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs: | Its right to choose also I can choose to not accept spam messages as well as phone calls they should make this a law the do not spam list lol im on the do not call list and recieve like 99% less sales calls. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: Its right to choose also said by MysticGogeta :I can choose to not accept spam messages as well as phone calls they should make this a law the do not spam list lol im on the do not call list and recieve like 99% less sales calls. A "Do not Spam List" law would be a good idea. If it is legal for phone calls, it can also be legal for unwanted email.
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA
| Re: Its right to choose also said by GOLFnSUN :said by MysticGogeta :I can choose to not accept spam messages as well as phone calls they should make this a law the do not spam list lol im on the do not call list and recieve like 99% less sales calls. A "Do not Spam List" law would be a good idea. If it is legal for phone calls, it can also be legal for unwanted email. It's legal, but it would make the problem much, much worse. Most spammers aren't too concerned with the law and would ignore a no-spam list, or worse they would harvest it for email addresses. | |
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| RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Unfortunately, unlike the Phone list, one for the internet would be worthless. Why? Stop and think for while. What is one of the biggest differences between phone spam and internet spam?
Consider, Joe and Jane email spammer get told that the US passed a law saying no more spam to these addresses. So what do they do? Go to Mexico, or Canada, or the Bahamas, or etc. Heck, they do not even have to leave home to do that, just get an account opened. The Feds can't touch them because 1. They do not know they are US citizens, 2, What they are doing is not illegal in those jurisdictions, and 3. They are probably using zombies anyway.
The reason this does not happen with the phone? Cost to make international calls.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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MysticGogeta
The Robot Devil
Premium
join:2005-03-14
League City, TX
clubs:
2 edits | Re: Its right to choose also They can block incomeing traffic tho
i can see your point but i can see our goverment figureing something out im just saying to reduce the spam atleast just like the do not call list | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| the Uni is a private network, they have every right to block what they feel the need to block to maintain its stability and security.
a violation of free speach would be the cops arresting someone for having a sign in their car window saying the president is doing a terrible job. a net admin blocking spam is a net admin protecting private property just as security guard does at the entry to the parking garage.
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Nothing with spam will be fixed... ...until you can hold those who are hiring the spammers liable. If ABC Company hires a spammer and they violate the can spam act, ABC Company should also be held liable.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Jamaica Plain, MA | Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... I favor a technological solution instead of a legal one. Email's open nature makes it vulnerable, that has to change. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... There is no technological solution. For every solution there is a work around. The only thing that can stop them is costing them money. You may not be able to get the spammers and they are good at hiding, but those hiring them and hocking their wares are for the most part easy to find...and ultimately fine.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... There might not be a technological solution that is 100%, but I think that Bayesian-style filters are very effective. As more people employ Bayesian filters, less spammer messages get through. This means that the spammers need to modify their messages to get them through (e.g. "Viagra" becomes "\/1Ag rA"). However, the filters will quickly pick up on these changes and block them too. And even if the spam gets through, the spammer's message gets more and more garbled. (e.g. A gullible user is much more likely to "Buy herbal Viagra now" than to "B uy h3rBa1 \/1Ag rA n0w".) As the spammer's messages become less effective, spam becomes less profitable and that will help drive spammers out of business.
This isn't to say that we should only rely on Bayesian filters. I think that no one approach alone will stop spam. However, if we combine multiple approaches (Bayesian filters, going after spammers and where possible the companies that hire them, etc) we should be able to stem the tide of Spam.
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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join:2002-11-19 | Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... if I was a 1337 hAx0r I'd be much more inclined to B uy h3rBa1 \/1Ag rA n0w. 
(sorry, couldn't resist) | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| The problem is filters still require processing power. They're great for end users, but not for the ISPs who have to dedicate computing horsepower to filtering millions upon millions of messages.
If ISPs could go after those companies hiring the spammers, it could curtail a lot of the volume.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
| Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... The main problem I have with going after the companies hiring the spammers is that the relationship can be hard to prove. If someone is trying to sell Norton Anti-Virus via spam is he sanctioned by Symantec? Did he buy a bunch of copies and is trying to sell them off? Is he selling an illegal copy? Or, perhaps worst of all, is he selling a trojaned copy meant to turn the user's computer into a spam zombie and collect information on them?
How do you prove that the "Buy Norton Anti-Virus now" message was actually at the behest of Symantec?
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-Jason Levine
My Gallery | Jason's Toolbox | PCQandA.com | URateit.com | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... It would be whoever benefits. You can't sell Norton AV without some contact information (otherwise how does someone buy). It's that contact person/company who would get hosed with fines.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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| | | | | | Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
| There are not hard to find. Where the money goes is where the problem lies.
As a reseller, if I sell Norton Anti-Virus through spam, then that money is making its way to me, not Symantec. You don't pursue the product makers or the manufacturers unless they are the one's the money is going to.
Every single spam message has a webpage/ecommerce site you are hitting to purchase. Those are the ones that are hiring these people and those are the ones that should be fined and prosecuted.
Companies claiming they hired X marketing company and didnt know what they are doing are still responsible and so is the marketing company that hired the spammer. | |
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oliphant
I Have 8 Boobies
Premium
join:2004-11-26
Corona, CA
| Re: Nothing with spam will be fixed... said by Skippy25 :There are not hard to find. Where the money goes is where the problem lies. Exactly...follow the $$$.
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WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING, except ending slavery, facism, communism, Nazism.... | |
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Hangthembytheirballs
 from:
masrotaj
| DEATH to ALL Spammers !!! And make it a VERY painful, slow, excruciating death so that they get their due and notice is served to other Spammers what awaits them for violation of law. | |
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Time
Premium
join:2003-07-05 | Hmmm... Maybe the ACLU should help them out. Hell, they've already helped out drug dealers, nazi's, and pedophiles. What's another one added to the list going to hurt? | |
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| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus | Re: Hmmm... They won't because there is no legitimate constitutional issue here... Blocking junk mail on your servers doesn't violate the First Amendment of anyone. | |
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cao1964
join:2000-08-09
Danville, PA
| said by Time :Maybe the ACLU should help them out. Hell, they've already helped out drug dealers, nazi's, and pedophiles. What's another one added to the list going to hurt? And they would help you out also when no one else would care, ACLU is not as bad as you think but they do take cases that go agains the norm that we are condition to believe is the only norm. | |
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viperpa33s
Why Me?
Premium
join:2002-12-20
Bradenton, FL
·Bright House
| University should be at fault as well I blame the spammer but I also blame the university for selling people's email addresses to the spammers. People gave there email addresses in confidence, believing that there personal info would be kept private. I do consider email addresses as private info.
That's why EULA's are so important and needs to be simplified. As we seen in this case, you will get the rug pulled right out from under you. | |
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| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: University should be at fault as well said by viperpa33s :I blame the spammer but I also blame the university for selling people's email addresses to the spammers. That seems to be a recurring problem on campuses too. I remember as an undergraduate getting spam even though I had never sent an email to anyone with that account. While the spam was targetted, it was easy to see that the University had sold us to their "partners."
What was odd, though, was that my staff email accounts never got any spam... Interesting.  | |
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| mlundin
join:2001-03-27
Lawrence, KS
·Sunflower Broadband
·Comcast
| The university of Texas is a public institution and as such e-mail provided by the university is in the public domain. If you want you can get all sorts of information about the people involved with public universities, including their salary - just go to the library. | |
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| MrBentor
join:2003-02-18
Seattle, WA
·Comcast
| said by viperpa33s :I blame the spammer but I also blame the university for selling people's email addresses to the spammers. From what I understand about the case is that the spammer used a FIOA type request to get the address. The school actually refused the request and the company found a court to force the school to turn over the address with a subpoena. They were never sold to the spammer.
he school should have refused or appealed the subpoena to release the addresses in the first place, citing overriding privacy concerns. | |
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ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN
·RCN CABLE
| Wrong state Are these guys crazy? First off you sued the national champions. Go Longhorns! Secondly, this is Texas, "Don't mess with Texas". Thirdly, who is the president of our country, where is he from, who picks supreme court judges. These guys are lucky to not be bombed,LOL. | |
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csnewbie
join:2001-02-12
Atlanta, GA | i have constitutional right to.. shoot those spammers filling my inbox with penis enlargements and viagra spam | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY | Look at it this way... If you yelled really loud in public (if you was advertising something or not) is considered disturbing the peace.. | |
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insomniac84
join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
| Universities have the right to block anything If a university has the right to block out going services, then damn well better have the right to block incoming traffic. Many universities will block things like online games and p2p traffic. If they want to selectively block email sources, it's their right, because they own the network. Now don't get me wrong, if the university gives you a routable ip, it's bullshit for them to filter anything. | |
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blueeyesm
join:2003-09-05
Waterloo, ON
·Rogers Hi-Speed
1 edit | hmmm... I am surprised that a university would even do something like that. They can't be getting THAT much money from private companies and 'organizations' to warrant that. They know there's MUCH bigger fish to go after than to do something like that.
Furthermore, if this was true, doesn't this violate any privacy rights the employees, professors, students, etc. have while attending said University?
I work for a Canadian one and we openly state we do not sell their addresses. However, I do know that it's not difficult to make a name generator and just send email starting with, for exmaple, aaaaaaa@youruni.org and send them one after the other, incrementing the letters and numbers sequentially. If there is a naming convention there, then it'd be more efficient to guess it and then tweak the generator as such. | |
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Italia3
Sweet, Succulent, Satisfying
Premium
join:2005-06-14
N.W. TN
| No Spam It would be nice to have a "Do Not Spam" list but much harder to adhere to it, I think.
I cannot believe some company actually sued a college for blocking out spam. 
Well, they are going to have to sue many colleges then. The college I graduated from had a very complicated system of blocking all spam, spyware, adware, or any potential threat. We, the students, paid dearly for it, too, via our computer fees ($200), in which all students paid for it each semester.
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"Inspiration, perspiration, & dedication forms a partnership to the success of goals."---ME | |
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No Constitutional Right to Spam
Re: DEATH to ALL Spammers !!!