 bgraham
join:2001-03-15 Smithtown, NY | Why not turn off even more? TV, telephones and internet.
That would stop anything. | |
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 |  jimbo2150
join:2004-05-10 Youngstown, OH
| Re: Why not turn off even more? said by bgraham :TV, telephones and internet. That would stop anything. Eventually, TV will become IPTV and POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) and cellphones will become VOIP and turning off the internet at that time would do just that.
I also think it's a little ironic: many groups out there siding with Chaney that torture is perfectly fine to defend our nation from terrorists. Yet at the same time, give the president power to TEMPORARILY suspend net access to prevent security threats from the Internet and you get the response: "Takes away my nets? Hellz no!" --
- "Techie" Jim | |
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 |   cameronsfx
join:2009-01-08 Pensacola, FL | He already has that power with FEMA and the War Powers Act. Karl needs to learn some laws.  | |
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 |  |   Neyland
join:2003-02-04 USA
| Re: Why not turn off even more? said by cameronsfx :He already has that power with FEMA and the War Powers Act. Karl needs to learn some laws. quote: While the original bill had some now-removed scary language, the new version simply acts to do things like provide scholarships for promising security researchers -- and doesn't give the President any power he didn't already have.
Am I missing something? | |
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  Raptor Not a Dumptruck
join:2001-10-21 London, ON | I don't know... ....That conveniently juxtaposed, scary looking, Grandma unplugging Obama picture makes me think otherwise. -- ....where's my fiber? | |
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  anonanme
@suddenlink.net | what quote: the new version doesn't give the President any power he didn't already have.
Then why give it to him... again? | |
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 |  openbox9
join:2004-01-26 Alexandria, VA | Re: what Because the proposed law does more than simply affirm the President's authority. | |
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  manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| Something tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this..
Change you can believe in?
Riiiiiiiiiight....
ACLU...EFF...Where art thou? -- "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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 |  ender7074
join:2006-11-21 Saint Louis, MO | Re: Something They're too busy trying to destroy our intelligence gathering agencies. You know, because they are evil. -- Does Microsoft mean small and squishy? | |
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 |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| Re: Something said by funchords :said by manfmmd :tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this.. All over what? These aren't "left" versus "right" issues. The EFF is still fighting the Bush policies that Obama is continuing. "Change you can believe in?" Obama voted for telecom immunity, so I guess we shouldn't expect change. Obama is also getting no special pass for the copyright power grab that simply continues under his watch (although a lot of bad copyright-strengthening proposals come from the left, anyway). They shouldn't be left or right issues, but the emphasis placed on these issues, the choice to pursue these issues, and the media coverage that each receives depends on who is in power at the time. -- "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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 |  |  |   funchords Hello Premium,MVM join:2001-03-11 Washington, DC
·Verizon Online DSL
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| Re: Something said by jester121 :Don't you mean the Clinton policies that Bush continued and Obama is continuing? That could be true. If it is, thanks for the correction. | |
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join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL
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| Re: Something said by KrK :But it is true that before everything instantly became Obama's fault it was Clinton's fault--- if you ask the right, anyway. Just like everything wrong today is Bush's fault, if you listed to the left?
Makes one wonder why anyone listens to either. | |
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 |   Titus Pullo I came, I saw, I slept
join:2004-06-26
·Embarq
| said by manfmmd :tells me if Bush was still in, the left would be all over this.. Change you can believe in? Riiiiiiiiiight.... ACLU...EFF...Where art thou? Oh, I agree that there's nothing quite so vague as government wording by government lawyers. It's a cesspool of excrement so vile it'd make a freight train take a dirt road.
But, you know (or you damn well should), all this left - right bullsh*t has become completely irrelevant at this point. Either your faux representative government is one that caters to your ideology, by and large, or it doesn't. There is no left or right; it's a damn shell game of divide and conquer run by two parties that do a kabuki on behalf of their corporate masters. You can bet your last penny that Reagan knew at least this much.
And therein lies the only difference between these two affiliations: there are more within the 'right' well aware of this, evidently, than there are on the 'left' -- where wide-eyed idealism (which, for the love of God should have been destroyed, if not by Reagan then certainly by Bush) still lives in small clusters of people who, if they're not smoking skank bud, should be.
I'll tell you this much: if Bush were still ... I don't want to think about it; it's positively perverse. -- | |
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 |  |   BloodRoses Gods lend wings to tainted hearts Premium join:2003-03-17 clubs: | Re: Something Thanks for that, it made me giggle.  | |
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| Re: Something said by BloodRoses :Thanks for that, it made me giggle. +1 "skank bud" classic... : ) | |
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 |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL | Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... | |
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 |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
1 edit | Re: Something said by GlobalMind :Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... I'm not saying forget the Patriot Act, I'm saying let's apply the same standard to WHOEVER is in office, regardless of party affiliation. -- "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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 |  |  |   GlobalMind Domino Dude, POWER Systems Guy Premium join:2001-10-29 Hollywood, FL
| Re: Something said by manfmmd :said by GlobalMind :Well let's not forget the Patriot Act....talk about seizing control... I'm not saying forget the Patriot Act, I'm saying let's apply the same standard to WHOEVER is in office, regardless of party affiliation. Entirely agree with you there. -- TheGlobalMind.com / Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? / Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. - Ralph Waldo Emerson / Free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. | |
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 |  axus
join:2001-06-18 Washington, DC | "The left" should be all over it, someone like Bush could be in office again. He was all about interpreting vaguely defined powers to mean the maximum, for example the Patriot Act authorization. | |
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 |  |   nixen Rockin' the Boxen Premium join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
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| Re: Something said by KrK :You're missing the point. What's happening is the Right is so ready to go off on Obama about anything and everything that they shoot themselves in the foot (again) going off about something that's not there. I'd *really* not categorize McCullough as part of "the right". Libertarians, as centrists, tend to be left of both of the two major parties' national office holders. -- The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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join:2005-07-22 Tempe, AZ
·Cox HSI
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| Re: Something said by nixen :Libertarians, as centrists, tend to be left of both of the two major parties' national office holders. That's not quite true.
Conservatives say Libertarians are "left" due to L's believing that social relationships should be consensual, not coerced by public law. (E.g., no war on drugs; no definition of marriage; etc.).
Liberals say Libertarians are "right" due to L's believing that markets (essentially socio-economic relationships) should be consensual, not coerced by public law. (E.g., no SEC or food & drug quality laws; free markets in the true, Darwinian sense.).
Libertarians (true Libertarians) are extremely consistent in their beliefs. This leads to adherants of the two traditional parties feeling uncomfortable -- liberals advocating freedom of individual matters, but not in commerce; conservatives advocating freedom of commerce, but not individual matters (unless it involves guns).
But, it's all meaningless because true, consistent Libertarianism cannot, and has not existed. It's not reasonable. There will always be coercion in any society. Once that can of worms is opened, it's just a matter of negotiation -- and, the unfortunate spectacle of both political parties unable to cope with the fact that they're both violating the same principle (non-coercion) in different ways, accusing the other of being guilty.
And then there's the Ron Paul (small l) libertarians. They use all the Big-L rhetoric to sound like they're standing on moral high ground (above the two parties), while distancing themselves from Big Ls due to their obvious irrelevancy, and thus embracing coercion just like the two parties. Just differently, in ways that benefit them.
Mark | |
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 |  |  |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | Possibly, but he sure went off the right hand side of the road on this one. | |
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 |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK | The EFF doesn't move until the threat is real. Under Bush, it always was. | |
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 |  raster44
join:2003-09-07 North Tonawanda, NY | This is Snark, I assume? | |
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  mystryfiostk
join:2008-07-17 00000 | . Here come the teabaggers and freepers. | |
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  Eat Me
join:2002-09-25 Sussex, NJ | I don't trust them When the laws are vague, you trust the Government.
I would rather not have the Government as restricted as possible. After all, that is what the constitution is about - to restrict the powers of Government. | |
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  Hpower Roflmao
join:2000-06-08 Glendale, CA | lol @ obama picture He looks scary as hell in the picture LOL. Screw the gov trying to control the internet. -- The Internet is about to go down....it is actually. | |
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 |  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: lol @ obama picture Every time I see a picture of him I throw-up a little bit.
By the way, the mods here chastised me for using the term obamageddon, so you folks should be careful. | |
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 |  |  vinnie97
join:2003-12-05 Mesquite, TX | Re: lol @ obama picture Likewise...he's a narcissistic media whore. It's too bad people voted on an empty image last year and not on principles (barring the so-called "progressives," which are a minority in this country in spite of what this site would have you believe). | |
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 |   NOVA_Guy Obama- Commander in Thief Premium join:2002-03-05 | I actually love the picture. If I could only get permission from the picture owner, I'd love to start using this in a number of places. It's the first one I've seen of him that starts to show him in an honest light. | |
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  acehyde Tired. Premium join:2001-08-14 clubs:
| What if? The section that says quote: "direct the national response to the cyber threat".
What if under Obama's (or any other President after Obama) national response is to disconnect or otherwise interfere with private sections connectivity?
What would constitute quote: "an immediate threat"?
Also, who are these quote: "relevant industry sectors"
that they mention?
Where are the checks and balances with this? Would Congress be able to block this if he opened one of the many "The Sky is Falling" emails and panicked? -- The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
-Ronald Reagan
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 ShellMMG
join:2009-04-16 Grass Lake, MI
·Alltel Axess
| Legislative Messes The bottom line is we have a congress stacked with senators and representatives who have NO idea how the internet functions, what technologies actually work, how profit and loss play a part, and they take their lack of knowledge to pass legislation with no clue as to the Law of Unintended Consequences. When they do bother with information it's usually at the behest of lobbyists. Garbage gets slipped into the bills under the cover of darkness -- and politicians who can't be bothered to read the bills before they come up for a vote.
My husband trains federal and state policies to social service workers for our state. Trying to get the two systems to mesh is time-consuming, expensive, results in legal gobbledygook and the end product usually causes more problems than it solves. Trusting them with internet legislation is hard to justify, but at least it's unlikely to have the lethal consequences of their ideas regarding "health" care. | |
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 |  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL | Re: Legislative Messes We don't have a congress, we have a glee club with the authority to screw us big time. | |
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 |  sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24 Cleveland, OH | "lethal" consequences of healthcare? *facepalm* | |
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  longstreet
join:2004-11-14 Plano, TX
2 edits | hmm If a major cyber attack occurs, they'll grill Obama.
If he trys to protect us, they'll grill Obama.
Anyone want to grill Obama?
If it was Bush saying it back when the AUMF was written, i'm pretty sure these same people wouldn't be talking.
The government should not be allowed to take over private computers or networks. I agree with that.
I read the bill and I just don't see clearly where a reasonably intelligent person could possible imply that from.
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  ARGONAUT got ping?
join:2006-01-24 New Albany, IN | Really? Really?? Really??? Death-net maybe 
Lets see how Fox News spins this to the willing sheep. | |
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 |  vinnie97
join:2003-12-05 Mesquite, TX | Re: Really? Really?? Really??? There are plenty of Obama sheep in MSNBC land also. | |
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 |  |   ARGONAUT got ping?
join:2006-01-24 New Albany, IN
| Re: Really? Really?? Really??? said by vinnie97 :There are plenty of Obama sheep in MSNBC land also. Yea, but there not making stuff up to feed the stock.  -- PentiumD 930 DC 3.0GHz - 4GB PC2-4200 - 300GB SATA - BFG Nvidia 7950GT OC 512MB - Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600(1101MCE) - Vista Ultimate SP2 32bit | |
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  mrkevin Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. Premium join:2007-08-07 Aurora, ME clubs: | Yes he is Since it was Al Gore who invented it. It only makes sense that Obama promised Gore control back over his invention. -- An army of sheep led by a lion, will always defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. | |
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 |   hopeflicker Capitalism breeds greed Premium join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA
| Re: Yes he is said by mrkevin :Since it was Al Gore who invented it. It only makes sense that Obama promised Gore control back over his invention. better check your facts »www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp | |
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 |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| Re: Yes he is said by hopeflicker :said by mrkevin :Since it was Al Gore who invented it. It only makes sense that Obama promised Gore control back over his invention. better check your facts » www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek - Look it up. -- "The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan | |
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 |  |  |   hopeflicker Capitalism breeds greed Premium join:2003-04-03 Long Beach, CA | Re: Yes he is His humor was NOT apparent.
thank you | |
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 |  |  |  |  lesopp
join:2001-06-27 Land O Lakes, FL
| Re: Yes he is Al Gore did say "I took the initiative in creating the Internet"
Seems to me he was taking credit for creating the internet. Please explain the difference between self serving statements about creating something verses inventing something.
He makes it sound as if it weren't for him we wouldn't be posting on this board today. I guess the folks that worked on ARPANET and at BBN were just madly spinning their wheels. | |
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  Jootch
@rr.com
| A warning: "No socialist government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently worded expressions of public discontent.
They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance. "And this would nip opinion in the bud; it would stop criticism as it reared its head, and it would gather all the power to the supreme party and the party leaders, rising like stately pinnacles above their vast bureaucracies of Civil servants, no longer servants and no longer civil.
"And where would the ordinary simple folk - the common people, as they like to call them in America - where would they be, once this mighty organism had got them in its grip?"
Winston Churchill, The First Conservative Election Broadcast, June 4, 1945. | |
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 |   KrK Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy Premium join:2000-01-17 Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
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| Re: A warning: said by Jootch :
"No socialist government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently worded expressions of public discontent.
They would have to fall back on some form of Gestapo, no doubt very humanely directed in the first instance. "And this would nip opinion in the bud; it would stop criticism as it reared its head, and it would gather all the power to the supreme party and the party leaders, rising like stately pinnacles above their vast bureaucracies of Civil servants, no longer servants and no longer civil.
"And where would the ordinary simple folk - the common people, as they like to call them in America - where would they be, once this mighty organism had got them in its grip?"
Winston Churchill, The First Conservative Election Broadcast, June 4, 1945. Guess old Winston made a mistake, because what he described wasn't a "Socialist" country (which all are) but a Communist one. A common mistake many Americans make to this day.....
government conducting the entire life and industry of the country could afford to allow free, sharp, or violently worded expressions of public discontent. Control over and managing all business and industry is a staple of Communism, not Socialism. -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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 |  |  vinnie97
join:2003-12-05 Mesquite, TX | Re: A warning: We're on our way...auto and bank industry takeovers say hello. | |
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  Wow
@idsno.net
| Your article is disingenuous.
Isn't saying the President "may" do something sort of like saying go ahead? Why does this power need to be specified to that one person?
Your article is off base. That passage may have been removed, but it did give him the power to do just what everyone was scared of. Good thing it was removed, Our fears were not unfounded. The fact that is was in there at all bothers me a great deal and makes me wonder about our legislators and whether they really value freedom for our country and it's people. | |
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 rdmiller
join:2005-09-23 Richmond, VA | What a wimpy story! This is so less testosterone-powered than Declan's. I liked the first one better. | |
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 TooFastFlash
join:2009-04-26 Clarion, PA | Trust Issue Since I just purchased a firearm online, I am considered a threat and more than likely being monitored in some form. I agree with everyone above saying is a trust issue. Whats wrong with packet sniffing and traffic monitoring? | |
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 htech007
join:2006-10-18 Lincoln, NE
·Windstream
·VOIPo
·Qwest.net
| Not for Private Communications There is no need to shutd down private sector communications in an emergency. I'm fine if the president wants to shut down government services on the internet. If there is such an emergency, I would hope it would be left up to the ISPs to make the decision. Unless the president is going to pay my bill, my servers and infastructure should be mine to choose what to do in case of an emergency. Let me decide what is right for my customers. I pay enough taxes and comply with regulation that I have earned the right to make my own decision in an emergency or any other time. The internet is way diffierent that physical objects flying in the sky that could crash. | |
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 |   Hazy Arc
join:2006-04-10 Greenwood, SC | Re: Plenty of opinion What else would you come to expect from this site? | |
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  phoneboy3
@shawcable.net | The black helicopters are a comin! They are going to take away your guns, your grandma, and now your internets. It's a Oligarhy I tells ya! | |
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 |   ARGONAUT got ping?
join:2006-01-24 New Albany, IN | Re: The black helicopters are a comin! You forgot Death Camps  | |
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