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Nobody's Doing The Math On Verizon Mystery Fee Scandal
And FCC's Clyburn wants additional answers...
by Karl Bode Tuesday 05-Oct-2010 tags: business · wireless · bandwidth
As we noted yesterday, Verizon has finally admitted they've been charging millions of users an erroneous $1.99 "data fee" for essentially doing nothing. Our guess is Verizon announced the refunds to pre-empt any findings of an FCC investigation -- and make it appear they were engaged in corporate responsibility after denying the problem existed for two years. FCC Commisioner Mignon Clyburn issued a statement (pdf) demanding more answers:

While I appreciate that Verizon Wireless has acknowledged its billing errors, the refunds to millions of Americans have been a long time coming. It appears the company was first notified, more than two years ago, about certain billing errors. As I pointed out in December of last year, the company’s initial response to public reports of the phantom fees was that it does not charge consumers for accidental launching of the web browser. Yesterday’s announcement clearly requires further explanation.

Click for full size
You think? A company that's been milking customers to the tune of millions -- for years -- all the while denying anything was happening despite press reports, a steady stream of consumer complaints, and whistle blowers? Yes, perhaps somebody somewhere might want to ask a few questions.

Meanwhile, despite the ocean of press reports we've read on this, nobody appears to be asking questions about Verizon's math (historically not the company's strong suit). Verizon estimates they'll pay $50 million in refunds, when in reality Verizon potentially made hundreds of millions from the fee. Fifteen million (at least) users being charged $2 (at least) a month for two years (at least) certainly brings you to a total that far exceeds $50 million. Whatever happens be it fines, class action settlements or refunds, we're guessing Verizon's "error" still nets them a mammoth profit.

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Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus

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Just goes to show you

It is better the be the screwer then the screwee

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

Always Fight The Fees

Customers rarely get proper compensation for their troubles when companies are forced to pay back fraudulent charges.

I would imagine that the Verizon customers who disputed these fees every month for which they were charged probably made out with more money.
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Matt
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Re: Always Fight The Fees

said by pnh102:

Customers rarely get proper compensation for their troubles when companies are forced to pay back fraudulent charges.

I would imagine that the Verizon customers who disputed these fees every month for which they were charged probably made out with more money.
Who wants to spend an hour on the phone every month to dispute $1.99? I'm betting Verizon was banking on that as well as ignorance of the charge in the first place. When I was with Verizon, my monthly bill was constantly a few dollars more or less, every month, so I wouldn't have noticed $1.99 either way.

robbin505

@comcast.net
I think it is high time that caps on lawsuits were done away with. If just one company was sued out of existence by the consumers they were taking advantage of, hurting, kiling, etc..., i think it would send the message to other companies that they need to operate fairly and within the bounds of the law or else it could happen to them too.
Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL

Verizon can't do math right so maybe they don't know

Verizon can't do math right so maybe they don't know what they made?

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA

1 edit

From the lack of math...

Looks like Verizon is 'admitting' the 'error' to prevent class action lawsuits.

Class action lawsuits would cost the company money... Having an error, admitting to it, and paying a tiny sum back would net them tons of money.

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

Re: From the lack of math...

said by Metatron2008:

Class action lawsuits would cost the company money...
It really depends on the circumstances of the lawsuit. If Verizon was made to cut individual large checks to the victims then yes.

But as we know, most class action lawsuits involve a large payout going to the lawyers, and the victims getting a shiny coupon for 50 cents off their next Verizon purchase. While those payments to the leeches lawyers do cost a pretty penny, Verizon could more than recoup that cost by selling product back to the victims at a token discount. In the end, even a class action lawsuit can be a win-win for the plaintiff's lawyers and the defendent.
--
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Boricua65
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join:2002-01-26
Sacto Sh*tty

Re: From the lack of math...

Tis why I don't participate on class-action lawsuits. The LAST I need or want is a stupid coupon for x amount off a certain product(s). Prime example, was the Micro$oft lawsuit in the states.
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PittsPgh
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Re: From the lack of math...

said by Boricua65:

Tis why I don't participate on class-action lawsuits. The LAST I need or want is a stupid coupon for x amount off a certain product(s). Prime example, was the Micro$oft lawsuit in the states.
Another example is The Epson Ink Cartridges.
I got a $45 coupon to use in thier Online Epson Store. Put it towards a new scanner.

burgerwars

join:2004-09-11
Northridge, CA
said by Boricua65:

Tis why I don't participate on class-action lawsuits. The LAST I need or want is a stupid coupon for x amount off a certain product(s). Prime example, was the Micro$oft lawsuit in the states.
I once got over $20,000 from being part of a class action lawsuit. That was an abberation, as the class ended up being very small. But with most class actions, where the class ends up being very big and the amount to divide up isn't that big, it's often not worth the bother to join in.

Romney2012
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1 edit
said by Metatron2008:

Looks like Verizon is 'admitting' the 'error' to prevent class action lawsuits.

Class action lawsuits would cost the company money... Having an error, admitting to it, and paying a tiny sum back would net them tons of money.
There already was a class action lawsuit filed over this. This is really a settlement of that lawsuit:

»stopthecap.com/2010/03/01/class-···charges/
A class action lawsuit has been filed this week to recoup what a law firm has called “improper data charges” for Verizon Wireless customers who discovered $1.99 fees on their phone bills for “data charges” many customers claim they never used.

Goldman Scarlato & Karon, P.C., a law firm with offices in Cleveland, OH and Conshohocken, PA, filed the suit against the wireless giant in federal court in New Jersey.

Metatron2008
Premium
join:2008-09-02
Stockbridge, GA

Re: From the lack of math...

By avoiding the math though, they limit the lawsuits.

If people were asking questions alot more lawsuits would be filed.
hottboiinnc
ME

join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
again the blog gets credit for something without any real sources.

robbin505

@comcast.net
We are talking about $48 here right? Two years at $1.99/month per person. That's only $48 per person. If they do get a refund that wouldn't even cover most people's monthly charges. I just wonder if maybe they should be forced to pay more due to the deceit? Or, how about every customer gets one free month of service? Who wouldn't like that? And it wouldn't really cost the company anything.

unknvoip
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damn statistics

While you keep clamoring for someone in the press to do math, I would want you to know that as one of the 15 million that not all customers were charged all the time.

With 4 phones on my account, we had no more than 6 single $ 1.99 charges. It is bad, but you are going over the top and discrediting yourself.
slckusr
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Re: damn statistics

said by unknvoip:

While you keep clamoring for someone in the press to do math, I would want you to know that as one of the 15 million that not all customers were charged all the time.

With 4 phones on my account, we had no more than 6 single $ 1.99 charges. It is bad, but you are going over the top and discrediting yourself.
As a previous customer service rep, I don't think he is discrediting himself at all, I would constantly through my work day get calls about the 1.99 data fee and those are just from people who look at and notice their bill. the 1.99 fee was a joke among my coworkers who were told by management they were valid charges and not to waive them.

Romney2012
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said by unknvoip:

While you keep clamoring for someone in the press to do math, I would want you to know that as one of the 15 million that not all customers were charged all the time.

With 4 phones on my account, we had no more than 6 single $ 1.99 charges. It is bad, but you are going over the top and discrediting yourself.
My experience was the same. I had 2 instances and both times I had Verizon reverse the charge. Verizon maybe underestimates for the press and Karl overestimates for the same reason - to spin the news for their own agendas.

Pathfinder
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1 edit
I agree. I have 4 accounts and never got the charge at all.

Edit. And Karl's math doesn't take into account the people that were refunded the $1.99.

unknvoip
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Re: damn statistics

Good point. I did call a few times to get it back, but got lazy and didn't always call. I also had a couple times when the charge was almost legit - redownloading backup assistant so I could sync my contacts with the server when switching phones. Perhaps they should refund that for me as one phone switch required enough re-downloads that I went over 1MB.

Mad as Hell

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Taking from the poor and making the rich Billionaries

I have been asking for the last 10 years as a customer,"why is my bill over three hundred dollars a month". The response back is bullshit! This type of theivery has been goining on for alot longer than most would expect. I am mad as hell and tired of being played like a fool, because They have money.
RiverMerger

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Former customer

We had verizon for years and had so many of those charges it was crazy. Even after turning off that service we still got charges. Does anyone believe Verizon didn't do that on purpose...I'm sure not. Does anyone believe Verizon will track down our old charges and refund them...I'm sure not! Verizon should be sued for a amount that shakes the pants off of that company for years to come and make the other companies think twice before milking their customers on purpose with bogus charges. Does anyone think that will really happen...I'm positive not:(.

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Re: Former customer

said by RiverMerger:

Does anyone believe Verizon didn't do that on purpose...I'm sure not. Does anyone believe Verizon will track down our old charges and refund them...I'm sure not! Verizon should be sued for a amount that shakes the pants off of that company for years to come and make the other companies think twice before milking their customers on purpose with bogus charges. Does anyone think that will really happen...I'm positive not:(.
Amen!! By the time Verizon gets around to making refunds, bookoo refunds will fall through the cracks. Awww gee, Verizon will be unable to locate soooo many of those customers to give them a refund...and they will try sooo hard.

I think Karl's math is "right-on"...and remember that many of those customers had more than one phone. Mighty nice of Verizon to settle for 50 million on about 720 million or more in erroneous charges. I wish I could make an error like that every couple of years.

For those few that did manage to get a credit, what about all the hassle and time on the phone to correct the error. Calling to correct billing errors is not a 5 minute fun-time deal and should be reimbursable. I don't know what your time is worth, but you may have lost money just to get your mere $1.99 back.

An obvious ploy, followed by a 2 year denial represents a criminal activity in my book. Why is a ploy by giant rich corporations to steal millions called a billing error, when a ploy by an individual is called fraud?
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mmainprize

join:2001-12-06
Houghton Lake, MI

Re: Former customer

Verizon should have to give a $1.99 credit on each bill for the next two years on top of that one time refund.

amenite
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Re: Former customer

I like this idea - how about in place of the 50M in refunds the penalty instead is that Verizon mails a check out for $1.99 to every account holder & handset for two years and then they can call each of us every month to try and get it back
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cork1958
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said by RiverMerger:

We had verizon for years and had so many of those charges it was crazy. Even after turning off that service we still got charges. Does anyone believe Verizon didn't do that on purpose...I'm sure not. Does anyone believe Verizon will track down our old charges and refund them...I'm sure not! Verizon should be sued for a amount that shakes the pants off of that company for years to come and make the other companies think twice before milking their customers on purpose with bogus charges. Does anyone think that will really happen...I'm positive not:(.
As the poster above already said:

Amen to that!!
"Verizon should be sued for a amount that shakes the pants off of that company for years to come and make the other companies think twice before milking their customers on purpose with bogus charges"

Verizon has been one of the kings of the ripoff, for years.
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mfontz

@rcn.com

Had to turn off all internet access on my kids phones

Verizon was charging us so much that I finally turned off the access to all four of our phones. Believe me it wasn't easy with the operator who didn't want to do it. Verizon knew they were making millions out of these $2 charges and fought like hell to keep the service even though we did not use it.

Problem is now when the phones need an upgrade, we have to take to a Verizon store nearby. It's still cheaper to go there and spend the gas than it was for all those charges adding up on the bill.
Mr Matt

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Big Corporate cheats at the game of life.

The corporate dirt bags pay off lawmakers to pass laws that allow abuse of American Citizens. Why would Verizon want to act in an honest manor when they can really clean up by engaging in fraudulent activities. Vodafone a foreign company really cleans up too since they own part of Verizon. If cheating like this were perpetrated by a small business the owner would spend time in the slammer. Several years ago a Dairy was fined for shorting the milk they were selling customers by less than an ounce. The fine was not a small sum. Big wireless can get away with anything by paying off the right people!

MSauk
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Re: Big Corporate cheats at the game of life.

any lawsuit on any big corporation does not really cost them money as they will easily make up for lost money by raising fee's to it's customers.

So not only do they lose once, but they get raped again
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Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA

It is embarrassing that our government lets

companies like Verizon get away with this fraud with basically zero penalty

If we actually wanted to stop these types of criminal activity, we would actually punish Verizon with an ACTUAL fine that hurts them

Zen

@verizon.net

2 times

I had this happen twice and they refused to credit me, the only way for me to stop it was to cancel all data on the phones .which cost them more in the long run, but they stll got me

Alex G Bell

join:2002-07-02
Boston, MA

1 edit

Make Them Accountable!

"I think it is high time that caps on lawsuits were done away with. If just one company was sued out of existence by the consumers they were taking advantage of, hurting, kiling, etc..., i think it would send the message to other companies that they need to operate fairly and within the bounds of the law or else it could happen to them too."

I could not have said it better myself. This issue may be just the tip of the iceberg with Verizon.
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