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O2's iPhone Missteps Mirror AT&T's
Cut corners on your network, struggle to handle smartphone users...
Like AT&T, UK operator O2 signed an exclusive arrangement with Apple to sell the iPhone. Also like AT&T, O2 engineers saw the potentially huge surge in bandwidth demand created by the device, but executives, ever mindful of putting investors ahead of consumers, failed to re-invest enough income back into the network. So (seeing the trend yet?) like AT&T, O2 has spent the last six months suffering from network performance issues and apologizing profusely to their customers. Unlike AT&T, O2 has now lost their exclusive arrangement to offer the iPhone, though that didn't result in lower prices or better network performance. Vodafone, Britain's second biggest carrier, will begin selling the iPhone in January.
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FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

As can be seen in some of the links in the story above, the explosion of wireless data growth caused by smartphones has strained the world's networks. And while all vendors are scrambling to expand numbers of towers and bandwidth capacity, these changes can't be made fast enough to keep up with exploding demand. So for a couple years we will see problem areas (like San Fran & NYC & London, etc). To attribute this problem to mere greed by the ISPs is shortsighted in the extreme. Things will improve, but it will take some time and constant griping won't make it go any faster.

O2 has taken a couple short term steps to reduce the problem:
O2 has been working with Nokia Siemens Networks, its infrastructure supplier, on software modifications to ensure it can better manage the combination of voice and data traffic on its network.{gives priority to voice calls to stop dropped voice calls}

It is installing 200 additional mobile base stations in London, that will increase the traffic load the network can bear.
sonicmerlin
join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH

1 edit

sonicmerlin

Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

said by FFH5:

As can be seen in some of the links in the story above, the explosion of wireless data growth caused by smartphones has strained the world's networks. And while all vendors are scrambling to expand numbers of towers and bandwidth capacity, these changes can't be made fast enough to keep up with exploding demand. So for a couple years we will see problem areas (like San Fran & NYC & London, etc). To attribute this problem to mere greed by the ISPs is shortsighted in the extreme. Things will improve, but it will take some time and constant griping won't make it go any faster.

O2 has taken a couple short term steps to reduce the problem:
O2 has been working with Nokia Siemens Networks, its infrastructure supplier, on software modifications to ensure it can better manage the combination of voice and data traffic on its network.{gives priority to voice calls to stop dropped voice calls}

It is installing 200 additional mobile base stations in London, that will increase the traffic load the network can bear.
Oh please. Network engineers are not idiots. They know how to plan for data growth. Given the massive popularity of the iPhone in the US, O2 knew what was coming when it partnered with Apple.

You can handle any amount of data growth by erecting new towers and deploying fiber to the towers. Yes it`s expensive, but a company making hefty profits and whining about data growth is just making excuses.
[
Why is it that in both super-highly populated areas and in the countryside in Japan there are no bandwidth issues, nor have there been for years? The same goes for virtually every other major developed country that has a robust landline internet industry.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 edit

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FFH5

Premium Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

said by sonicmerlin:

You can handle any amount of data growth by erecting new towers and deploying fiber to the towers.
What slows down increases in numbers of towers isn't money. It is permits and contracts and overcoming NIMBY attitudes by people who think cell towers will give them cancer(a big UK problem evidently). And then finding enough resources to install them, because there are limited numbers of companies and people capable of cell tower construction.

Anyway, IT TAKES TIME to do all that and growth is happening faster than it can be responded to.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

1 recommendation

Matt3

Premium Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

said by FFH5:
said by sonicmerlin:

You can handle any amount of data growth by erecting new towers and deploying fiber to the towers.
What slows down increases in numbers of towers isn't money. It is permits and contracts and overcoming NIMBY attitudes by people who think cell towers will give them cancer(a big UK problem evidently). And then finding enough resources to install them, because there are limited numbers of companies and people capable of cell tower construction.

Anyway, IT TAKES TIME to do all that and growth is happening faster than it can be responded to.
I think AT&T and the like are much more concerned with pleasing their shareholders than actually bringing their network up to par. Otherwise, why has CapEx for network expansion decreased as revenues have skyrocketed? They know they have a problem, but they are spending less money than when they didn't have a problem.

SpaethCo
Digital Plumber
MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

1 recommendation

SpaethCo

MVM

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

It can be surprisingly difficult to spend money on towers that local government won't let you build.

StevenB
Premium Member
join:2000-10-27
New York, NY
·Charter

StevenB

Premium Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

said by SpaethCo:

It can be surprisingly difficult to spend money on towers that local government won't let you build.
Building owners would love to have towers on their roofs. Just pay them to put it there Problem is, only Verizon been doing it and little bit of Sprint.

Matt3
All noise, no signal.
Premium Member
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC

Matt3 to SpaethCo

Premium Member

to SpaethCo
said by SpaethCo:

It can be surprisingly difficult to spend money on towers that local government won't let you build.
I would attribute some of that to it, but I've dealt with that approval process so I don't believe that is the sole reason, nor even a big part of it. Regardless, why aren't they speeding deployment of the 850MHz spectrum on their existing towers?

StevenB
Premium Member
join:2000-10-27
New York, NY
·Charter

StevenB to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
said by FFH5:
said by sonicmerlin:

You can handle any amount of data growth by erecting new towers and deploying fiber to the towers.
What slows down increases in numbers of towers isn't money. It is permits and contracts and overcoming NIMBY attitudes by people who think cell towers will give them cancer(a big UK problem evidently). And then finding enough resources to install them, because there are limited numbers of companies and people capable of cell tower construction.

Anyway, IT TAKES TIME to do all that and growth is happening faster than it can be responded to.
You really think it's permits/contracts/labor issuses/cancer towers?!? ATT and majority of the USA ISPs from MSOs/Telcos/Wireless etc.. Have network planners, who carefull map out their network(s) for future use, it comes down to the Board if they want to INVEST the MONEY INTO SAID NETWORK MAP OUT.

Problem has always been, since I worked for QUICS cable in the 80s to 90s - Engineering has a capable build out, but once the suits see the price attached to the plan build out, they start picking it apart and going for the cheapest way possible.

And i highly doubt ATT or any ISP hires complete idiots who do their network planning.

oh_really
@uk.net

1 recommendation

oh_really to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
said by FFH5:

It is permits and contracts and overcoming NIMBY attitudes by people who think cell towers will give them cancer(a big UK problem evidently).
Those people irritate me. They don't want mobile masts, but will quite happily strap a phone to the side of their head, and will complain when coverage is crap because of a lack of masts. They will quite happily live in a house 200 metres away from a multi-megawatt television transmitter, but not a mobile mast putting out a few watts at almost the same frequencies.

I guess these are the same people who suddenly get headaches when they know there's a WiFI access point nearby, but don't when they don't know.

Jim Kirk
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join:2005-12-09
49985

Jim Kirk

Premium Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

I have to think twice about reading a response that gets a Thumbs Up from TK.
45071419 (banned)
join:2006-07-30

45071419 (banned)

Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

said by Jim Kirk:

I have to think twice about reading a response that gets a Thumbs Up from TK.
Totally

Michael C
join:2009-06-26
Cedar Park, TX

Michael C to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Regardless of the motive behind the decision to offer a device the company's network can't handle, the fact remains that they did. They're not idiots. I'm sure they have some very smart network engineers who saw this coming....hell, the company receptionist could have predicted this. And yes, constant griping does make improvements go faster. The moment the griping ceases, so will the improvements. So I say gripe loud and gripe often and let these companies know how pissed off you are at their crappy service.
bostonkarl1
join:2003-07-09
Arlington, VA

bostonkarl1

Member

Re: Explosion of smartphones(not just iPhone) straining networks

Indeed.

If ATT want's to be a cry-baby about how the iPhone is hurting its network, it shouldn't sell it. Poor poor misunderstood ATT and all the mean iPhone users hurting its internets.

Oh wait a minute. The iPhone is ATT's cash cow.

Kinda hard to take a company seriously that has a CEO talking about how Google should pony up for using its tubes. Those same tubes that the consumer has already paid for...
k1ll3rdr4g0n
join:2005-03-19
Homer Glen, IL

k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

Something more to the story...

I really think there is something more to the story...
I find it odd that Windows Mobile, Blackberry, and other "smartphones" haven't even dented the network; yet you throw a few iPhones in the mix all of a sudden chaos ensues. From my personal experiences Windows Mobile certainly can suck the bandwidth like a little kid sucking chocolate milk through a straw due to several programs made to stream to it (video and audio). Hell, even Skype works FULLY on a Windows Mobile device (ie being able to make/receive calls over the 3G network NATIVELY). Windows Mobile even has Internet Connection Sharing built in that AT&T doesn't cripple AND allows you to use the data on your phone on your laptop/desktop WITHOUT the provider knowing because it is simply just acts as a gateway.

I am unfamiliar with what the Blackberry has to offer but it does seem like you can stream videos on it: »forums.crackberry.com/f6 ··· s-46489/

Combining Blackberry + Windows Mobile users, I would argue would stack up to iPhone users, probably less but lets work with the numbers. Assuming for a second Blackberry and Windows Mobile users have been around for years and haven't done any dents to the network even with Skype, ICS, and video streaming...why is it with the iPhone we are seeing all these problems?
Could one not say that a person using ICS could use more data than an iPhone?

I am not an expert on the iPhone OS, but I would venture to guess that Apple put in something that phones home...and isn't optimized so it uses a lot of data.

Perhaps I am ignorant to the number of iPhone users and what they actually use the iPhone FOR. But I know there is something to the story we are not being told.
BB_Hunter
join:2008-05-16

BB_Hunter

Member

Re: Something more to the story...

I don't think it's because you can suck bandwidth with WM/BB but the fact that it's really easy to do with the iPhone. People that aren't tech guru's can get right into an iPhone and do whatever easily.

Take Windows Mobile for example. I had a HTC 8925 running 6.1WM. The browsers for WM are no comparison to the iPhone safari browser. I've used IE, Opera & Skyfire and surfing the web can still be a pain. In my experience things just don't work as well and I didn't really use them that much. For reference I used maybe 50mb a month with Windows Mobile and now use 500mb a month with my iPhone.
LowRider
join:2006-06-23
Dallas, GA

LowRider to k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

to k1ll3rdr4g0n
I can only speak for my self, but my data usuage on my iphone is around 1gb a month. Now, to me that doesn't seem much. All I do is some YouTube videos and I stream a crap load of music over the network. The wireless feature on my phone drops out all the time so I don't use it much.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: Something more to the story...

1gb is not much. especially if you are using 3g
openbox9
Premium Member
join:2004-01-26
71144

openbox9 to k1ll3rdr4g0n

Premium Member

to k1ll3rdr4g0n
The iPhone growth has exploded in the last couple of years. The iPhone devices outnumber WinMo devices. RIMM still leads the pack, but my guess is that historically BlackBerries have primarily served as e-mail devices, typically consuming relatively small amounts of bandwidth. Only recently has RIMM stepped up to increase other functionality on their devices. I think the iPhone showed consumers how easy it is with millions of available apps to actually use their devices...catching carriers off guard due to the extraordinary change in usage pattern.
NeoandGeo
join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

NeoandGeo to k1ll3rdr4g0n

Member

to k1ll3rdr4g0n
I use roughly 10x more bandwidth on my Motorola Droid than I did previously on XV6800/Omnia. It's much easier to use now that I have a competent App store that gives me bandwidth hungry applications, on top of the phone being able to handle real web browsing.

Ctrl Alt Del
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join:2002-02-18

Ctrl Alt Del to k1ll3rdr4g0n

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to k1ll3rdr4g0n
There's a very simple reason why Windows Mobile, Blackberry, Android, and others haven't dented the network: no one is using them. The sudden onslaught of iPhone users are using their mobile phones more than any previous smartphone. It doesn't matter if your Windows Mobile phone offers features that let you consume massive amounts of data if only one person is using it.

The iPhone has 50% of the US smartphone web traffic. »www.techcrunch.com/2009/ ··· -the-us/ Even AT&T single out the iPhone as being used more than any other smartphone in sucking down web traffic. »www.neowin.net/news/main ··· pay-more

To argue that the iPhone isn't optimized is rubbish. There is no mystery here. There's a whole shitload of iPhone users out there, and they are beating the life out of AT&T's shitty network.
barnesms
join:2009-08-31
Atlanta, GA

barnesms

Member

O2's iPhone Misstep

Makes you wish that we had real competition in the US, as they do in the rest of the world.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: O2's iPhone Misstep

said by barnesms:

Makes you wish that we had real competition in the US, as they do in the rest of the world.
I am confused , where are you talking about? I have 7 wireless providers in my area. The problem is too many standards, and not enough economies of scale.

Gbcue
Premium Member
join:2001-09-30
Santa Rosa, CA

Gbcue

Premium Member

Re: O2's iPhone Misstep

said by DaveDude:

said by barnesms:

Makes you wish that we had real competition in the US, as they do in the rest of the world.
not enough economies of scale.
Well just stay with the national carriers then.

DaveDude
No Fear
join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

DaveDude

Member

Re: O2's iPhone Misstep

said by Gbcue:
said by DaveDude:
said by barnesms:

Makes you wish that we had real competition in the US, as they do in the rest of the world.
not enough economies of scale.
Well just stay with the national carriers then.
I dont think you have a clue of what 'economies of scale' means.

oh_really
@uk.net

oh_really to barnesms

Anon

to barnesms
said by barnesms:

Makes you wish that we had real competition in the US, as they do in the rest of the world.
That's no help when Apple (and Palm, and RIM with the Storm) insist on exclusivity agreements. It was an excellent idea for Apple and Palm to sell their phones exclusively to o2, a network that is completely lacking in 3g (they were, and still are the worst for coverage - the only network to get a warning for breaching the conditions of its licence which stipulate a minimum level of coverage), and whose data network wasn't that good even before the iPhone (no internet access on PAYG) and isn't that good now (it crashes monthly).

obeythelaw
Premium Member
join:2003-04-16
Warren, NJ

obeythelaw

Premium Member

i think thats the case

The iPhone is the first "smartphone" that is user friendly and designed for the masses. Using Safari browser is like using a browser on your computer. The demand is so high that people are doing a lot more with the iphone than they have done and still can do with a blackberry or win mobile phone. The fact that O2 was having problems is a testament to the fact that all companies underestimated the ease of use with the iphone. the only remedy is to continue to expand the network and invest money into it. even if verizon gets it, they will experience the same problems and i'm sure they're pretty happy that they didn't get it because they haven't had to deal with all of the negative press.
NeoandGeo
join:2003-05-10
Harrison, TN

NeoandGeo

Member

Re: i think thats the case

And with the money they invest into their own network, they have probably been preparing for the iPhone for quite some time.
sides14
join:2007-11-29
Peoria, AZ

sides14

Member

Pure Speculation

You are assuming that this is entirely an AT&T issue and not an iPhone issue. Site permitting is extremely hard to get. Throw in some trenching for fiber and you have a nightmare scenario. In addition, you have things like RF interference that create major bottlenecks. Sure you can add additional carriers, but spectrum is finite and some markets have more than others.

It still doesn't answer my question how I can use my Blackberry Bold at AT&T Park in San Francisco, but my friends with iPhones cannot receive calls, send text messages or surf the web.

oh_really
@uk.net

oh_really

Anon

Competition?

FTA:

"Unlike AT&T, O2 has now lost their exclusive arrangement to offer the iPhone, though that didn't result in lower prices or better network performance."

That's no surprise when you have the handset manufacturer dictating what you'll sell, how you'll sell it, what you sell it with, when you'll sell it and what you'll sell it for. With my non-Apple handset, which I bought sim-free from a shop of my choice, I am able to go with any network I feel like, buy any plan (or go prepay) I want with a 1 month contract, save money, and switch networks again when I want. I don't have Apple telling me what I may or may not do with my phone, too. If said phone was locked I can easily get it unlocked through the network. Until very recently, o2 was reluctant to do that with the iPhone. Orange haven't even announced their unlock policy for it.

The network performance in Orange is superior to o2, however. Their data network doesn't crash weekly (this is with the load of tons of Nokias, Blackberries and WinMo phones - remember that over here the iPhone isn't quite the revolution it is said to be over in the US) and the 3G coverage is superior in every way. Speeds aren't bad either.

FastiBook
join:2003-01-08
Newtown, PA

FastiBook

Member

Tower and rooftop......

I've ran into several news pieces of att awaiting approval from local municipalities for equipment upgrades and the like, things under scrutiny are load limits for monopole and lattice truss towers (since they are different), as well as putting sites on top of electrical pylons.... So, att isn't sleeping, they just can't go and add stuff without permits and approval and a review process.

- A