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Obama Likes Neutrality, But What About Metered Billing?
President tackles a few questions on broadband...
by Karl Bode Wednesday 03-Feb-2010 tags: prices · business
By now most people are familiar with Time Warner Cable's failed efforts to implement low caps and high overages, and AT&T's continuing trials of a similar idea in two markets. It's only a matter of time before such models, which are loved by investors because they involve consumers paying more money for the same (or in some instances less) product, see another industry-wide push. We know that Republican FCC Commissioners are loyally beating the metered billing drum for carriers, but what about the President? Based on a Q&A session this week on YouTube, he's not a fan:

"We’re getting pushback, obviously, from some of the bigger carriers who would like to be able to charge more fees and extract more money from wealthier customers. But we think that runs counter to the whole spirit of openness that has made the Internet such a powerful engine for not only economic growth, but also for the generation of ideas and creativity."

So is that a hard line "no" to metered billing then? Or a Presidential, telecom immunity kind of no? Or is he simply talking about the fear that major carriers would charge companies that already pay for bandwidth extra money for prioritization (which you'll recall is what got this whole neutrality ball rolling in 2005 in the first place). Whether policy makers are aware of it or not, the push toward metered billing is a big part of network neutrality, given restrictive per gigabyte pricing models can be used to direct consumers to select content (for instance a carrier's own uncapped TV services instead of cheaper Internet video alternatives).

The FCC's Democratic Commissioners remain murky on whether they support such billing models, and where they stand on the issue will be important to discern ahead of the telecom industry's next attempt to wean consumers off of the flat-rate pricing model they've grown used to. Again, many people confuse what carriers want to do (low caps and high per gigabyte overages) with what they might like to see (a pure per-byte billing model where you only pay for what you use), and the former frequently fails to offer real consumer value.

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Matt
All noise, no signal.
Premium
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Jamestown, NC
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Opinion

I think it's pretty well known that Obama believes more in openness and consumer protections than the previous administration. The real question, is will he have the cajones to take on big telecom, will he let the FCC (Migdon Clyburn) tackle it, or will the big telecom lobbying machine bribe enough members of Congress to stymie any attempts to kill metered billing?

DaveDude
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey
kudos:1

Re: Opinion

Actions speak louder , then words. There was no openness regarding the healthcare bill. Why would this be different ? Plus i dont think this the role the of the president.

Matt
All noise, no signal.
Premium
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Jamestown, NC
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Re: Opinion

said by DaveDude:

Actions speak louder , then words. There was no openness regarding the healthcare bill. Why would this be different ? Plus i dont think this the role the of the president.
There was plenty of openness until it went into a thousand committees.
matrix3D

join:2006-09-27
Middletown, CT

1 edit

Re: Opinion

Consumer protections? Maybe, it's yet to be seen. Openness? That's laughable. Having a closed door meeting where only Obama, Reid and Pelosi are hammering out the details is in no way "open." And this is just a single example of how he has reneged on this campaign promise... there are plenty others.

EDIT: I should also add that just because Obama's mug is plastered on the evening news every night so they can inform us as to what kind of ice cream his daughters had when he took them out or what vegetables his wife Michelle is growing in the White House garden does not qualify as being "open."
WhatNow
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join:2009-05-06
Charlotte, NC

Re: Opinion

They learned all about open government from President Chaney.

HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO
You're right. Bush redid all the bankruptcy laws to favor corporations and businesses, Obama on the other hand passed a bill that allows renters to stay in their homes for 90 days after being foreclosed on. Actions DO speak louder than words.
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DaveDude
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Re: Opinion

said by HotRodFoto:

You're right. Bush redid all the bankruptcy laws to favor corporations and businesses, Obama on the other hand passed a bill that allows renters to stay in their homes for 90 days after being foreclosed on. Actions DO speak louder than words.
So loans shouldnt be repaid to lenders ?

HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO

Re: Opinion

said by DaveDude:

said by HotRodFoto:

You're right. Bush redid all the bankruptcy laws to favor corporations and businesses, Obama on the other hand passed a bill that allows renters to stay in their homes for 90 days after being foreclosed on. Actions DO speak louder than words.
So loans shouldnt be repaid to lenders ?
Is predatory lending actually lending?
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DaveDude
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Re: Opinion

said by HotRodFoto:

said by DaveDude:

said by HotRodFoto:

You're right. Bush redid all the bankruptcy laws to favor corporations and businesses, Obama on the other hand passed a bill that allows renters to stay in their homes for 90 days after being foreclosed on. Actions DO speak louder than words.
So loans shouldnt be repaid to lenders ?
Is predatory lending actually lending?
Is forcing banks to give bad loans, good policy ?
--
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HotRodFoto
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join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO

Re: Opinion

said by DaveDude:

Is forcing banks to give bad loans, good policy ?
No one is forcing anyone to give fraudulent and deceptive loans to anybody. Look at the current problems and fees now associated with Credit Cards. It isn't fair to financially rape the American consumer. Anyone knows the last administration was anything BUT consumer friendly, and heavily favored big business. Is it fair that these banks scream "we are going under" yet pay out millions to their executives with bonuses while Joe down the street is losing his house, where it will sit for who knows how long, unoccupied, devaluing the houses and the property around it? It's all about the mighty dollar, sadly, and screwing the people.
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jester121
Premium
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
Funny, I don't seem to recall the executive branch being able to "pass bills." Perhaps a civics lessons is in order?

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
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Mount Airy, MD

Re: Opinion

said by jester121:

Funny, I don't seem to recall the executive branch being able to "pass bills." Perhaps a civics lessons is in order?
Everyone knows that when Bush was "president" it was just Dick Cheney ruling by decree! And if you didn't like it, he'd shoot you.
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1 edit
said by Matt:

I think it's pretty well known that Obama believes more in openness and consumer protections than the previous administration. The real question, is will he have the cajones to take on big telecom, will he let the FCC (Migdon Clyburn) tackle it, or will the big telecom lobbying machine bribe enough members of Congress to stymie any attempts to kill metered billing?
They are going to have to be opposed to metered billing lest they suddenly have a desire for a major increase in taxes. Since broadband has basically been declared a right, allowing the industry to go to metered billing means the government, hence us who pay into the USF, will have to pony more money for all those people who are too poor to afford service. Not saying I agree with the "broadband is a right" idea but metered billing will only increase the costs for the people who pay their own bills beyond their own costs. We will be paying substantially more into the USF in order to keep the carriers fat and happy. Flat rate is the only thing which will keep things in check for now.
--
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Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
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If only he and Biden would get out of the MPAA's bed we'd be set.

r81984
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Obama has no control over congress.
All he can do is teach them how our government is supposed to work, who the government is supposed to protect, what the constitution says, and how compromise works.

If congress can't learn these things then Obama will not be able to do anything.
--
Republicans: less fiscally conservative than that other party.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
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Re: Opinion

said by r81984:

Obama has no control over congress.
All he can do is teach them how our government is supposed to work, who the government is supposed to protect, what the constitution says, and how compromise works.

If congress can't learn these things then Obama will not be able to do anything.
Time for Obama to learn how to Veto, and how to order around the executive depts to make congressmen's life hell in their districts. Or turn the FBI on congressmen for embezzlement and election laws violations.

r81984
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Re: Opinion

If Obama wants to uphold his standards then he will have to veto everything. He has to compromise like everyone else.
It is hard enough to compromise with 51 people, now we have to do it with 60 people in the senate.

These people are so stubborn that you have to agree to give their state billions of non existent money to get their vote. Then you have more people who demonize everything so you have to give their state even more free money for them to vote for something that they told all their people was the devil.
--
Republicans: less fiscally conservative than that other party.
patcat88

join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
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Re: Opinion

said by r81984:

These people are so stubborn that you have to agree to give their state billions of non existent money to get their vote. Then you have more people who demonize everything so you have to give their state even more free money for them to vote for something that they told all their people was the devil.
Then time to Edgar Hoover them. They will speak with a woman who isn't their wife, or take a gift from lobbyests eventually, or hell, just make stuff up and leak it to MSM.

nedaname2p

@suddenlink.net
he can veto. but he doesn't, make up your own reasons why.

r81984
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Re: Opinion

said by nedaname2p :

he can veto. but he doesn't, make up your own reasons why.
Why so anonymous? Is this George Bush posting on dslreports???

Obama can't just pass whatever he wants. Bills start in congress. If the bill is 60% good and 40% garbage he have no choice to allow the 40% garbage or the good will never be passed. Nothing may ever get passed if there is no compromise.
--
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Uncle Paul

join:2003-02-04
USA
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Re: Opinion

said by r81984:

said by nedaname2p :

he can veto. but he doesn't, make up your own reasons why.
Why so anonymous? Is this George Bush posting on dslreports???

Obama can't just pass whatever he wants. Bills start in congress. If the bill is 60% good and 40% garbage he have no choice to allow the 40% garbage or the good will never be passed. Nothing may ever get passed if there is no compromise.
Ohhh I see. Corporations can write legislation and have it introduced by donations, but the President can't get something put before Congress by finding sponsoring members. Nice

ThrowDemsOut
If you can't convince 'em, confuse 'em
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Mullica Hill, NJ
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Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

Unless we want to get in to a totally planned economy, with 5 year plans and price control authorities, the gov't would do well to avoid telling private businesses on what they can charge. This has been tried in the past here and in other countries and it always turns out to be an economic disaster.
jus10

join:2009-08-04
Sterling, VA

Re: Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

Yes, because naturally the only options are lazier-faire capitalism and Soviet planned economies. Surely we couldn't have some limited regulations to keep corporations from taking advantage of people. Nah.

Karl Bode
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4 edits

Re: Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

Well said. I always love the false choice of unfettered capitalism or food lines. As if some kind of regulatory balance isn't possible. "All or none" is a bunk choice put forward by people who want to pretend that protecting their own wallet is some kind of sophisticated political ethos.

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA

Re: Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

said by Karl Bode:

Well said. I always love the false choice of unfettered capitalism or food lines. As if some kind of regulatory balance isn't possible. "All or none" is a bunk choice put forward by people who want to pretend that protecting their own wallet is some kind of sophisticated political ethos.
Remember. The U.S. isn't lagging behind the rest of the world when it comes to broadband because Americans want to "use" bandwidth. They don't actually "need" bandwidth.
margaf77

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said by jus10:

Yes, because naturally the only options are lazier-faire capitalism and Soviet planned economies. Surely we couldn't have some limited regulations to keep corporations from taking advantage of people. Nah.
Thinking is hard for those that see things that way, Glenn Beck told them that the world is ending and they need to buy lots of gold so theyre scared.

HotRodFoto
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Denver, CO
Yes because price fixing is a GOOD thing! /sarcasm

Karl Bode
News Guy
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1 edit

Re: Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

Well you know, if you prevent price fixing, predatory pricing, or anti-competitive behavior, the Communists win.

HotRodFoto
Premium
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Denver, CO

Re: Gov't should not get in to business of setting prices

said by Karl Bode:

Well you know, if you prevent price fixing, predatory pricing, or anti-competitive behavior, the Communists win.
Well said comrade! lol
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Z80A
Premium
join:2009-11-23

Obama no messiah

Obama, like all politicians, likes whatever will fill his campaign war chest the fastest.

ALL politicians are for sale to the highest bidder.
jb50

join:2010-02-03
Houston, TX

Re: Obama no messiah

Yes, corporations are greedy but, that is what they do, make money. The ones who are really to blame are the gov regulators. They are bought and paid for by these same corporations doing their bidding for them. Until campaign contribution reform is implemented, which is probably never, there will be no justice for the people. Until then, all we have is our ability to vote these @$$ holes out of office, so exercise that right!

Z80A
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Re: Obama no messiah

The problem is this bribery is called free speech when it is clear that it is bribery. Bribery is not 'protected speech'.

Any person or company that donates money to a politician and then that politician does something that directly benefits that corporation or person should go to prison along with the politician. Any special interest that crafts a bill for a legislator should be fined no less than $10B and any officers who approved it go to prison.

Treat these activities as what they are...bribery.
jb50

join:2010-02-03
Houston, TX

Re: Obama no messiah

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately we have a delima here in that no politician will ever vote for a law that will hurt themselves. Therefore, this will never become a reality.

Mule_Y

@verizon.net

Metered billing......

Metered billing will bring E-commerce (NetFlix and long google searches for bargain shoppers) to a grinding halt not to mention on-line game play will also suffer big....

As cell phone plan went from low caps and high overages to an all you can use plan......you mean home inertnet is going in the opposite direction, ain't right.

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA

Re: Metered billing......

said by Mule_Y :

Metered billing will bring E-commerce (NetFlix and long google searches for bargain shoppers) to a grinding halt not to mention on-line game play will also suffer big....

As cell phone plan went from low caps and high overages to an all you can use plan......you mean home inertnet is going in the opposite direction, ain't right.
It will be metered billing for everything, EXCEPT the providers' content of course.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
kudos:1

Re: Metered billing......

said by JakCrow:

It will be metered billing for everything, EXCEPT the providers' content of course.
That won't stand the test with the net neutrality nannies.
flbas1

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what?!?
said by JakCrow:

said by Mule_Y :

Metered billing will bring E-commerce (NetFlix and long google searches for bargain shoppers) to a grinding halt not to mention on-line game play will also suffer big....
It will be metered billing for everything, EXCEPT the providers' content of course.
»Comcast 'Soft Launches' New Backup Service

specifically: Yes, this service counts against Comcast 250 GB monthly cap.

Anon Name

@mhs-net.com
what?!?
said by JakCrow:

said by Mule_Y :

Metered billing will bring E-commerce (NetFlix and long google searches for bargain shoppers) to a grinding halt not to mention on-line game play will also suffer big....
It will be metered billing for everything, EXCEPT the providers' content of course.
»Comcast 'Soft Launches' New Backup Service

specifically: Yes, this service counts against Comcast 250 GB monthly cap.

footballdude
Premium
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Imperial, MO

Can you say busted?

We’re getting pushback, obviously, from some of the bigger carriers who would like to be able to charge more fees and extract more money from wealthier customers. But we think that runs counter to the whole spirit of openness that has made the Internet such a powerful engine for not only economic growth, but also for the generation of ideas and creativity

It's OK for Obama to tax more money from 'the rich' and he won't admit that it has a bad effect on the economy but someone else doing it is bad.
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction

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Re: Can you say busted?

whoosh!

Xizer

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
How is metered billing taxing the rich? It's a tax on the poor who can't afford business class connections or other high quality broadband connectivity without cap bullshit.

mlt

@ameritech.net
Metered Billing impacts everyone with broadband, not just the rich. This is a spin that politicians have created to help influence the general public. Middle and Lower class voters, for the most part, seem perfectly okay with the rich paying more.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA
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Re: Can you say busted?

said by mlt :

Middle and Lower class voters, for the most part, seem perfectly okay with the rich paying more.
Of course they are. And I'd be perfectly happy if the remainder of the 40% of the US population that doesn't pay federal income tax actually started contributing back to the trough.
moes

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Indianapolis, IN
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.

Basically if they meter me I am walking. I got no need to give them more money just so they can buy a new car that they do not need. Just like RIAA MPAA. HAHAHA Not giving them any money. keeping all my music restricted to Indy artist that are not connected with gold diggers.

Belinrahs
I have an ego the size of a small planet
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The obvious truth

It doesn't take half a brain to see the absurdity in the pure per-byte pricing model. First of all, companies like Verizon who are fee-happy (remember that $1.99 mystery data fee? Yeah, so do I) will set a status quo of per data-unit pricing that is outrageous compared to what it actually costs them to transport that amount of data.

I also feel that this kind of pricing is a huge hinderance to development and technology nationwide. Not to mention that as we get faster broadband speeds, we'll be using up data exponentially faster than before, leading to the fat cats getting even fatter.

Is that REALLY what you want to happen?
--
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castsucks

@sbcglobal.net

Re: The obvious truth

It should be done like the power system make a $10 line fee + X per M rounded down or in per GB packs any unused rolls over.

and make it a so you can pick who you want for a isp over dsl and cable.

also have the states have control over rates and also have a go over get slowed down (but pay no over the pack fee)

Belinrahs
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Re: The obvious truth

said by castsucks :

It should be done like the power system make a $10 line fee + X per M rounded down or in per GB packs any unused rolls over.

and make it a so you can pick who you want for a isp over dsl and cable.

also have the states have control over rates and also have a go over get slowed down (but pay no over the pack fee)
...which is overcomplicated compared to how it should be. Per meg rounded down? Try pushing that to a big-name ISP - in the corporate world, everything rounds up.

I'd write more, but I had a hard time understanding some of what you said.
--
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HD_Ride
Premium
join:2000-10-18
Trenton, NJ
it shouldn't be done at all, metered billing would be just one more way to put the squeeze the middle class

Belinrahs
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Re: The obvious truth

said by HD_Ride:

it shouldn't be done at all, metered billing would be just one more way to put the squeeze the middle class
Exactly my thoughts. The prices we're paying now are quite ridiculous - they make way more than it actually costs them to provide service to us!
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HD_Ride
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Re: The obvious truth

It’s mind boggling to me why anyone here would be a proponent of this. Do they think it’s going to be a reduction, yea sure. Someone made the comment above about having the states control it, obviously that person has never been to New Jersey

HotRodFoto
Premium
join:2003-04-19
Denver, CO

let's face it

Metered billing sucks. It is a money grab from corporations and screws the consumer. This isn't 1996 with AOL people. We have evolved, the internet has evolved. 10 years from now, things will be very different online than they are now. I want to watch youtube, Netflix, play games, share my photos when I can, not worrying about the amount of information and data which I am consuming. Things like this not only are anti-consumer but also stall advances. Look at how we currently rank in the world scale on Broadband. It's pathetic. I for one am sick of corporations screwing the consumers.
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Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: let's face it

said by HotRodFoto:

Metered billing sucks. It is a money grab from corporations and screws the consumer.
It's definitely a money grab when what is really being talked about is a high fixed monthly fee, low caps, and exorbitant overage fees. There are absolutely no providers interested in charging Grandma $5/month plus their true cost per Megabyte.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

UUB affects everyone mister president

you allow it and guess what happens they will go at everyone like BCE

that UUB coming to us means on top of the govt's 13% HST where it was 7%
ill have to add 22.50 PLUS maybe more and pay 13% on top of that charge as well

granmas and granpas and disabled everywhere should be tossing there cookies anytime as they get basically told YOUR TOO POOR
basically discriminated against
NOCTech75

join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

Broadband usage = wealth?

"We’re getting pushback, obviously, from some of the bigger carriers who would like to be able to charge more fees and extract more money from wealthier customers."

Really? I think that assertion is craptastic.

Van
Premium
join:2009-07-08
New Orleans, LA

In the end, I see no reason that Corporations

won't win out

With rare exceptions, they almost always do

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Fail

Looks like 0bama is searching for the next thing he can screw up.
chronoss2009
Premium
join:2008-09-23
kudos:2

change in his pocket

told ya so

Un

@verizon.net

It's all okay

Don't worry, let the big carriers charge all they want on us. Eventually we'll have no money left to spend, paying for their services and we'll stop connecting to the internet in general. They can then go out of business and we can go back to good old fashion book and whatever there was before the internet. Ball in a cup anyone?

ctceo
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South Bend, IN
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1 edit

Been working on this one

Apparently a lot of people want metered billing cause there really aren't enough people speaking up. There inaction tells the corporations one thing, "It's ok with us".

See Sig below:
Would you like your ISP to govern how much you can use the web in a month? Well it might happen if we don't do something NOW! »www.ipetitions.com/petition/PMDBI/ -- DONATING IS VOLUNTARY!

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