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Obama Promises Review, Reform of Surveillance Policies
by Karl Bode 03:39PM Friday Aug 09 2013
Yesterday the Obama administration met with numerous companies involved in the government's domestic spy program (including the CEOs of Apple and AT&T), as well as privacy and consumer advocacy groups to discuss the government's ever-blossoming surveillance scandal. Today the administration unveiled the results of those talks, and stated they'll take four steps in an effort to appease critics:

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• Obama claimed he'll work with Congress to reform Section 215 of the Patriot Act. That's the portion of the Act that's supposed to restrict wholesale data collection to just those involved in serious terrorism activities, but has been interpreted by the Bush and Obama administrations to mean they can collect and store data on, well, everyone.

• Obama claimed he'll work with Congress to improve the oversight within the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Last week, the administration had already stated that they would be open to adding an attorney to advocate on behalf of privacy rights.

• Wants to improve the transparency of government programs, including the creation of a website "hub for information on intelligence activities." So far, that website has been called The Guardian, and the government's interest in genuine transparency has been nonexistent.

•Wants to appoint a high-level task force of outside intelligence and civil liberties specialists with the aim of advising the government on how to balance security and privacy.

Obama insisted that the government wants to ensure our "efforts are in line with our interests and our values" while promising the government is "not interested in spying on ordinary people." All of that said, hard details for the reform plan were all but nonexistent, and the government's credibility on most of these issues remains largely nonexistent.

Obama also reiterated that he didn't believe Snowden was a "patriot," while at the same time acknowledging Snowden's leaks resulted in a "more rapid and passionate" response than would have happened otherwise. Granted, Obama's very presence and the reforms are thanks to what Snowden did, though the President repeatedly pretended the reforms would have come voluntarily.

The Obama administration's press conference came a day after the NSA revealed it would be getting rid of 90% of their system administrators in the hopes of increasing spy program secrecy. It also came the same day that new revelations were made by Edward Snowden and the Guardian that the NSA has been using 2011 changes made to Section 702 under the FISA Amendments Act to spy on the phone and Internet data of Americans without warrants.

That's of course in direct opposition to government statements, including Obama's claim this week to Jay Leno that the United States doesn't actually have a domestic spy program. Given the history of the government's lies on this front, many people will believe serious and meaningful reform only when they see it.

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en103

join:2011-05-02

1 recommendation

Paying lip service, and not much else.

All I can really say is that the devil is in the details... which we will never see. Patriot Act vs. NSA - and the NSA will still have a carte blanche to do what is 'in the interest of national security' and place a hush on it.

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5

Re: Paying lip service, and not much else.

said by en103:

the NSA will still have a carte blanche to do what is 'in the interest of national security' and place a hush on it.

As it has for the last 50 yrs. Nothing will change that. The president answers to the NSA and the NSC on spying. Not the other way around.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

said by en103:

All I can really say is that the devil is in the details... which we will never see. Patriot Act vs. NSA - and the NSA will still have a carte blanche to do what is 'in the interest of national security' and place a hush on it.

There's an interesting article about the "oversite" that Congress has been able to do so far and how various Congress Members, who are RESPONSIBLE for that "oversite" feel about it.

»www.washingtonpost.com/politics/···ory.html
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
brianiscool

join:2000-08-16
Tampa, FL
kudos:1

LOL

He has no idea how the technology works. This is just a smoke screen and there will be no change.

StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2
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1 recommendation

Re: LOL

True. Plus he's probably 5-6 levels of management from the people that actually collect and analyze whatever data they get. What he's been told is so watered down from the real truth as to be useless. His argument, in effect, comes down to

"Trust me we're the gummnit and we're here to help".

And rational people, upon hearing that, should run screaming in terror.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

firephoto
Facts hurt
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

Re: LOL

The reference is always to the data analyzed or the data collected by analysts who look at it. The reality is they collect everything and the rules are the only barrier to looking at any of that bulk data.

My solution would be to let them collect it all, but make all data collected on US citizens inadmissible towards any prosecution or trial of said US citizens. Make it exclusively a tool to prevent and prosecute foreign terrorists. And to do it in plain rules as simple as I state here and no legal bs like the DEA uses to anon tip other agencies with their NSA collected data that keeps them relevant.
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N3OGH
Yo Soy Col. "Bat" Guano
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Re: LOL

The problem with that is the pool of data is a treasure trove of personal information that can be used to "sway" officials in certain ways.

AHEM? Mr Supreme Court Justice. Yeah, we know you're about to deliver a ruling concerning either the constitutionality of our actions, or rule on a case where one of our favored people has a vested interest.

So, you Mr. Congressman/Senator/Judge/FBI Agent probably want to go the way we say we want you to go or else everyone is going to know that on ocassion you visit Craigslist and view the Casual encounters/MSM section & do a search for men, with pictures, 18-22yrs of age.

That would be hard on your family & your career, wouldn't it?

This is the exact reason the people of the GDR feared the Stasi so much.

Except the apparatus in place today would be an East German agents out & out WET DREAM of information.

Protection from prosecution isn't enough. The honey pot is TOO TOO SWEET.

The government MUST be limited in the information they collect without judicial review. Otherwise, the day is fast approaching where some strongman in a paramilitary uniform is running the country.

I fear at this point, it's only a matter of time....
--
Petty people are disproportionally corrupted by petty power

StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
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Galt's Gulch
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Re: LOL

said by N3OGH:

...the day is fast approaching where some strongman in a paramilitary uniform is running the country.

I fear at this point, it's only a matter of time....

+1
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

jazzlady

join:2005-08-04
Tannersville, PA
said by firephoto:

My solution would be to let them collect it all, but make all data collected on US citizens inadmissible towards any prosecution or trial of said US citizens.

What makes you think any citizen caught up in this net will even get a trial?

That's what's so scary- say something they don't like- in private- and you can get dragged off in the middle of the night by jackbooted govt thugs, never to be seen again.

That's how they do things in police states and dictatorships.
--
When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
Sinclair Lewis

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

1 edit

What a farce....

The man should read the Constitution. It'll probably be the first time he's actually done so.

I can hear it now: "I've made a determination that I don't need to determine whether the Constitution is applicable."

Typical DC timeline... The big news comes out on a Friday afternoon in "sleepy" August. The President then goes to Martha's Vineyard....

How predictably shameful this all is.

The now unmentionable "War on Terror"? If this is what it's come to. If this is what it makes us do.

We've lost.

BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
kudos:2

Re: What a farce....

Worse considering he's a supposed "Constitutional" lawyer.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

Re: What a farce....

Maybe that means that he goes for a morning "constitutional".
TheWickerMan

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
I'm certainly not defending the guy, but I believe his predecessor is the one who said that the constitution was "just a god damn piece of paper."

Landmine

join:2009-01-05
Placerville, CA
Reviews:
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Re: What a farce....

You would be wrong, if you were talking about Bush. Maybe one of Obama's other friends said that.

»www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-t···f-paper/
WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04
Sugar Land, TX
Obama should be impeached, Bush should be tried for war crimes.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

Constitution
said by IPPlanMan:

The man should read the Constitution. It'll probably be the first time he's actually done so.

I can hear it now: "I've made a determination that I don't need to determine whether the Constitution is applicable."

Typical DC timeline... The big news comes out on a Friday afternoon in "sleepy" August. The President then goes to Martha's Vineyard....

How predictably shameful this all is.

The now unmentionable "War on Terror"? If this is what it's come to. If this is what it makes us do.

We've lost.

The Constitution is available in every public building in Washington and is used daily. If you meet ANY Public Official in Washington that does not have an intimate familiarity with The Constitution, DO NOT shake their hand.
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1

Re: What a farce....

Ha! Never looked at it like that.

It's probably in the White House toilet as well.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

Re: What a farce....

said by IPPlanMan:

Ha! Never looked at it like that.

It's probably in the White House toilet as well.

Every Public building toilet in D.C. LOL. I hear they stock extra at SCOTUS, sell it to the tourists.
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

2 recommendations

Some translation

quote:
• Obama claimed he'll work with Congress to reform Section 215 of the Patriot Act. That's the portion of the Act that's supposed to restrict wholesale data collection to just those involved in serious terrorism activities, but has been interpreted by the Bush and Obama administrations to mean they can collect and store data on, well, everyone.

We will work diligently to rename it section 215 F.U. and it will clearly outline that we can do whatever we want to whomever we want so F.U. (see how it all makes sense now)

quote:
• Obama claimed he'll work with Congress to improve the oversight within the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. Last week, the administration had already stated that they would be open to adding an attorney to advocate on behalf of privacy rights.

We'll create so much red tape that by the time anyone wades through it, they'll forget what they were looking for. And even if they don't, please refer to section 215FU outlined above.

quote:
• Wants to improve the transparency of government programs, including the creation of a website "hub for information on intelligence activities." So far, that website has been called The Guardian, and the government's interest in genuine transparency has been nonexistent.

We'll continue doing what we were doing, except now you know that we are doing it.

quote:
•Wants to appoint a high-level task force of outside intelligence and civil liberties specialists with the aim of advising the government on how to balance security and privacy.

I wanted to appoint a security and privacy "czar", but my advisers told me that we have 1 too many of those and the public is not responding to well to the term, so what we are going to do is create a "task force", and not just any task force a high-level task force, that is going to make government approved noise so people think something good is happening. If you are not buying into this, see section 215FU above.

XANAVirus
Premium
join:2012-03-03
Lavalette, WV
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
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·Suddenlink

Re: Some translation

Nothing will change. Obama's 'promises' don't hold any water - he can't actually make the changes he says he will make (or in the off-chance he could, he won't, it would not benefit him).

Neither he nor any president can actually call this off or enforce any sort of meaningful change now, knowing the NSA is nothing new and that (all?) countries have similar agencies and tactics.

This is purely a smokescreen designed to assuage the public's fears of spying on themselves, whereas however the public is totally willing to accept the spying on foreign nations and 'terrorist regimes'.

Unfortunately, there is no way out, not now, and there probably never was and most likely never will be.

As long as there is 'evil' and differing human natures in this world, as long as there are others willing to take their cause to the extreme and commit crimes under its banner, there will be spying and there will be secrecy.

firephoto
Facts hurt
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA

Re: Some translation

Because most people are weak when it comes to reality. It doesn't even take a credible threat, just the chance that something you don't want others to know might already be known.

Perfect example. During the campaign of Obama's they had to go to extra effort to get him to give up his everyday phone that was like everyone else has. Unsecure, open to anyone spying, every bit, every letter, ever image, every piece of media was likely collected and stored somewhere. Or maybe it wasn't but when you get to know exactly what is possible it will make you live in just a little bit of fear of being exposed for something.

The general rule of the land is that if something is possible then that something happens whether you know it or not.
--
Say no to astroturfing. go to their profile, start ignoring posts and ignoring what's not true.

firephoto
Facts hurt
Premium
join:2003-03-18
Brewster, WA
And that's the biggest issue, the things they find wrong with programs are lack of legalities, not what any of the programs do.

We have laws that apply to everyone but then select, elite, special, and privileged individuals and businesses get specail laws crafted that make them exempt or immune or just not liable if they break said orginal laws. The reason? Most politicians are lawyers and they have friends and family members that are lawyers and it all makes money when you have to spend time crafting and defending legal things. It's a big scam that is propped up by the government from both sides. Even this spying or the threat of it on business is making lawyers money. If you're not just an everyday average generic citizens then most laws of this country that say you can't do specific things don't actually apply.
--
Say no to astroturfing. go to their profile, start ignoring posts and ignoring what's not true.
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
I personally find it funny how the US government has made negative comments about how countries like Iran monitor everything and that America is the land of the constitution and is not a surveillance state.

Why was I not shocked when it ended up confirmed they were shoveling bullshit. Okay I admit the US does not have secret police that make people disappear, And we never ever will have that.... Because Drones.(Neighbors are just collateral damage)
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tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4
Reviews:
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Nobody wants Snowden to...

....friend them on facebook (or in any other way)
»preview.reuters.com/2013/8/9/nsa···rcent-to

it's a career killer
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America

No change

And what will any of this do? He had his chance to man up as a senator, and didn't
»www.nytimes.com/2008/07/02/us/po···tml?_r=0

Uncle Bob

@comcast.net

Nothing will change

Obama is nothing more than hired help. He will be gone in 3 more years and the real decision makers will still be there spying on us.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

1 recommendation

Trickle down Economics...

We read the other day, right here in these pages how this entire nightmare is estimated to be costing the "cloud" business here in the U.S. $25B - $35B over the next three years. It's a significant anticipated loss, one this country's struggling economy does not need. How many jobs does that translate into?

A friend just returned from the E.U. from talks with his biggest client about a new project. Prior to any technical discussions, the U.S. suppliers where spoken to separately and made to sign a new N.D.A. if they wanted to participate. It seems over the last decade, the client has experienced theft of their designs that they could never explain. It seems the thefts only occurred with components that were supplied by U.S. companies. No matter what state of the art security the client and their suppliers used in order to safeguard the transmission of information to these vendors, it seems, things have been "getting out".

To make a long story shorter, the U.S. vendors with their new N.D.A. will no longer be allowed to participate in ANY electronic transfer of information via computer, phone, fax or any other means. If they want to participate in further projects, they must be willing to "commute" to the E.U. to pick up "paper" on design changes or any other necessary information. As per a long standing company policy, nothing will be shipped by any common carrier due to security considerations. Because their E.U. competitors have no such restrictions (except the common carrier), they will obviously have a very large edge on these U.S. companies when it comes to making bids.

This F.I.S.A. court and Supremes can bluster all they want, but they have been overruled by the only court that really matters... The court of popular opinion. Right or wrong, the world's opinion of the U.S. has been indelibly stained and that will have serious repercussions in our ability to do business with foreign companies. At this point I can't see anything that Washington can do to undo this damage. They have been branded as liars and thieves and cheats and WE have been branded with them. It's only just beginning...
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse

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Amazing...

It's amazing that Obama was able to keep a straight face through the speech, especially during the part about more transparency. I have this mental image of him doubling over with laughter the moment he got back stage and saying between gasps for air, "I didn't think I was going to be able to hold it in until the end of the speech!"

StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
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Reviews:
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Re: Amazing...

Well he might've been laughing.

. o O ( Are those suckers actually buying this? LOL)

Many of us are crying
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Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

IPPlanMan
Holy Cable Modem Batman

join:2000-09-20
Washington, DC
kudos:1
He can keep a straight face because he's a complete narcissist...a straight up sociopath.

tigerpaw509

join:2011-01-19

Promise not to

Ya the checks in the mail................
nltech

join:2007-06-13
West Haverstraw, NY

No change until you kick out Progressives and Neocons

The only way this will change is if people would stop voting for Progressives and Neo-Conservatives in either party that support the programs. True liberals, Conservatives and Libertarians would never stand for such policy.

JakCrow

join:2001-12-06
Palo Alto, CA

Wait...

...if everything the government is doing is all legal and stuff, why does he say there needs to be review and reform?