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Obama Set to Back Fines for ISPs Who Fight Backdoor Wiretaps
As Government Still Seeks Backdoors for Encrypted Services
by Karl Bode 10:02AM Wednesday May 08 2013 Tipped by S_engineer See Profile
As I've been discussing, law enforcement and intelligence agencies are making a strong new push to mandate backdoors in e-mail, cloud storage services, social networking websites and other encrypted services to make real-time wiretapping easier. As part of this effort to overhaul CALEA, the DOJ has even gone so far as to propose that ISPs be fined for failure to comply.

Now, after some internal bickering over the scope of the CALEA overhauls, President Obama appears ready to back some of these changes, though the focus will be on strengthening wiretap orders issued by judges. According to the New York Times, the fines for ISPs remain in play, though they will be modified to give a little leeway to smaller companies who could be harmed by them. By and large, the revisions are aimed at stopping companies from claiming they tried, but failed, to make the wiretaps work technically:
quote:
Currently, such orders instruct recipients to provide technical assistance to law enforcement agencies, leaving wiggle room for companies to say they tried but could not make the technology work. Under the new proposal, providers could be ordered to comply, and judges could impose fines if they did not...Under the proposal, officials said, for a company to be eligible for the strictest deadlines and fines — starting at $25,000 a day — it must first have been put on notice that it needed surveillance capabilities, triggering a 30-day period to consult with the government on any technical problems.
With this government, all of our rule revisions come after law enforcement and intelligence agencies have been happily spying on all voice and data for years with an utmost disdain for law. In other words, break the law first, change it later after you're caught. In this case, all the not-so-secret AT&T wiretap rooms (pdf) in the world can't help them if the transmissions are encrypted, thus this most recent push for backdoors and wrist slaps.

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westdc

join:2009-01-25
Amissville, VA
kudos:1

2 recommendations

Fines =Tax

A Democrat knows no Difference just "free Money to steal.
amungus
Premium
join:2004-11-26
America
Reviews:
·Cox HSI
·KCH Cable

1 recommendation

Re: Fines =Tax

Neither party gives two shits, let alone one.

"Concealed within his fortress, the lord of Mordor sees all. His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, and flesh. You know of what I speak, Gandalf: a great Eye, lidless, wreathed in flame."
—Saruman

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY
said by westdc:

A Democrat knows no Difference just "free Money to steal.

Neither the Democrat's or Republican's give a hoot about the people. Just look at what six years of Republican rule brought us from 2001 to 2007 and two years of Democrat rule from 2009 to 2011. We lose no matter who is running the show. Better to have the mess we have now with split government.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

NOCTech75
Premium
join:2009-06-29
Marietta, GA

1 recommendation

Re: Fines =Tax

My only issue with Obama and his game of continuing nearly every police he pontificated about was he stated more then once he was going to change how Washington did business. When he started making those promises... it's on him now.
ShellMMG

join:2009-04-16
Grass Lake, MI

Re: Fines =Tax

Obama was against it before he was for it.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
kudos:1

Re: Fines =Tax

said by ShellMMG:

Obama was against it before he was for it.

And then the lobbyists who will profit off installation and upkeep of the back doors paid off the democratic party and he had to sing a different tune.

I could be wrong and the government could honestly just want more spying. But this day in age I am conditioned to first search for the smell of cash.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports

throwaway486

@bridge360.com
Obama is such a disappointment. At least Bush/Cheney punched you in the face and took your rights. This guy gives you some flowery speech and stabs you in the back.

Rambo76098

join:2003-02-21
Columbus, OH

Re: Fines =Tax

Agreed. Then acts heroic about protecting our rights on one tiny little thing they don't really enforce anyway.

StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Par for the course

BTW I don't think it matters which political party is in power in regards to this stuff. Both sides want the ability to listen in on everything.

In public both say

• It's to protect the children.

• It's to protect us from terrorists.

Of course the real reason is to increase gummint power. The irony is that the 3-letter agencies listen to Congresscritters just as much as the rest of us.

When you allow agencies to know everything about everyone bad things are going to happen and sooner rather than later.

. o O (Has anyone learned the lesson of Hoover etc. Imagine him with today's capabilities)
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

atuarre
Here come the drums
Premium
join:2004-02-14
Conroe, TX

Re: Par for the course

said by StuartMW:

BTW I don't think it matters which political party is in power in regards to this stuff. Both sides want the ability to listen in on everything.

In public both say

• It's to protect the children.

• It's to protect us from terrorists.

Of course the real reason is to increase gummint power. The irony is that the 3-letter agencies listen to Congresscritters just as much as the rest of us.

When you allow agencies to know everything about everyone bad things are going to happen and sooner rather than later.

. o O (Has anyone learned the lesson of Hoover etc. Imagine him with today's capabilities)

Nah. I doubt they are listening to members of congress.
n0ym

join:2004-12-21
Montgomery Village, MD

If a judge is involved, fine

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

This is like paying extra to have locks on your doors that the government can open with a master key, it's not even close to how the "system is supposed to work"

LockedAnon

@173.227.18.x

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

said by Wilsdom:

This is like paying extra to have locks on your doors that the government can open with a master key, it's not even close to how the "system is supposed to work"

This is like the TSA approved luggage locks. I guess they want the Internet to be locked the same way. Yeeesh!

FFH
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ
kudos:5
said by n0ym:

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.

And the law mandating ability to tap conversations is many years old. The telcos just ignored the law. If they won't comply fine the hell out of them.
--
"If you want to anger a conservative lie to him.
If you want to anger a liberal tell him the truth."

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: If a judge is involved, fine

the law isn't exactly legal either.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

1 recommendation

said by n0ym:

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.

No way.
No company should be keeping any kind of identifying logs of their customers.
The end user customer should have 100% control of any identifying logs, records, saved emails. The only way a court should be able to get these records is GOING THROUGH the end user only.

Gaining access to someones private logs, records, and saved emails is like making someone testify against themselves.

It is against the 5th Amendment of the constitution for self incrimination.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
said by n0ym:

That's the way the system is supposed to work: warrants/court orders.

Right, like the way the government used warrants/court orders in the warrantless wiretapping scandal?

Laws no longer mean anything to the US government. They're just a way to force their will on others.
easonin
Rock Ridge, FL

join:2008-07-08

A m e r i c a ! ! !

Fuck Yeah!!!

drjosh121

join:2002-01-06
Matthews, NC

Re: A m e r i c a ! ! !

+1

workablob

join:2004-06-09
Houston, TX
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by easonin:

Fuck Yeah!!!

Comin' in to save the Mutha F**kin' Day Yeah!

Great Movie.

Big Brother is making me tired.

Dave
--
I may have been born yesterday. But it wasn't at night.

meeeeeeeeee

join:2003-07-13
Newburgh, NY

I could be all for this

IF there were fines and prison terms for the "Law Enforcement" and "Intelligence" people who abuse it that are actually enforced. It's time for "selective" enforcement of the law to end in this country. The Constitution mentions no "privileged class".
--
"when the people have suffered many abuses under the control of a totalitarian leader, they not only have the right but the duty to overthrow that government." - The U.S. Declaration of Independence
buckweet1980

join:2011-12-31
Allen, TX

Re: I could be all for this

Government doesn't pay attention to the constitution anymore..
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
said by meeeeeeeeee:

The Constitution mentions no "privileged class".

What does the government's toilet paper have to do with anything?

Twaddle

@sbcglobal.net

Welcome to the 4th Reich

Does anyone else see a re-occurring theme here? Same tactics (different technologies) were used by the Gestapo to subdue and neutralize the ability of the German population to react to the government.
Our esteemed Congress, President and Supreme Court are rapidly turning into nothing but worthless pretenders who have illegally gutted our Constitution and our rule of law. Yes there are bad people out there and yes we need some way of keeping them at bay but at what price? Guilty until proven innocent, no recourse to government search and seizure, no trial by peers no due process, questionable incarcerations, collateral deaths are considered acceptable. Encrypted messages are NOT illegal (yet) and unless there is a warrant with a genuine reason issued then stay out of my private life. I personally have never sent an encrypted message(no reason to but this may change with the Federal government tactics)
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Re: Welcome to the 4th Reich

The same trend seems to be active in many countries. Maybe the Arab Spring and the London riots created some panic amongst the elites? Guess we won't really know what is going on until it has already happened

Lark3po
Premium
join:2003-08-05
Madison, AL
^^^Godwin's Law proved right once again... :P

Edit: Not disagreeing with anything you typed just adding a little humor to a very sad thread.
axus

join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

Government should pay for this

The government should pay for the consultants and hardware required to make their spying happen. This proposal reminds me of China executing political dissidents with a firing squad, and sending their family the bill for the bullets.
Wilsdom

join:2009-08-06

Re: Government should pay for this

Doesn't really make much difference whether customers or taxpayers have to pay to be spied on

fatpipe

join:2011-10-02
Austin, TX

Please Help me to Understand

OK, if a service claims to be "encrypted", then how does one create a "backdoor" so the demonic government can analyze the data?

Isn't this a contradiction? I thought once data was encrypted (assuming the encryption has not been broken which as I understand it is highly unlikely) then the data would be undecipherable, therefore making a backdoor would not be feasible.

For example, take a workstation that has been encrypted with PGP Whole Disk Encryption. Does the government have a backdoor to decrypt the hard drive and read the contents? Am I mixing apples and oranges here???

Come on encryption gurus, help me to understand this concept.
firedrakes

join:2009-01-29
Arcadia, FL

Re: Please Help me to Understand

reminds me of V for Vendetta subject matter

hyphenated

@bellsouth.net
No guru here just thinking, you wan't necessarily have to break encryption to have a "backdoor".

•••••

dslcreature
Premium
join:2010-07-10
Seattle, WA

CALEA does not apply to information services

CALEA is for tapping signal and or data channels of subscribers. The legislation *explicitly* declared "information services" such as web sites and messaging providers to be out of scope of CALEA.

It is quite amusing to now hear this being spun as some sort of compliance issue rather than what it is... a breathtaking new grant of authority.

The answer to 1984 is RFC 1984.

Oh_No
Trogglus normalus

join:2011-05-21
Chicago, IL

Email should never have a backdoor

No way should any government order give access to email.
Just because new technology can log things does not mean things should be logged.
These anti-privacy laws are just going to destroy the "server" market in the US as companies and end users will want to use servers in countries with privacy laws.
Why would anyone want to use US companies and servers when they know their data wont be private??

When it comes to new technology, the laws need to mandated that no logs are kept and that no logs can be used against someone.
The same goes for email.
The end user should have 100% control over who can access their logs and records that tie to their name or any identifying information.

Pre-email you would have a stack of paper that you could burn or lock in a safe and no court could ever find it or get it unless it was stolen from you.
Email laws need to keep the same level of privacy making the end users the 100% owner of all logs and records of emails and only going through the end user can those records be accessed.
So if the end user does not give up the records then no one should be allowed to use them.

All they are doing with this BS is forcing people to run their own web and email servers or use web an email servers in other countries with protections.
mooseracing8

join:2006-05-22
Clarksville, MI

some day

Sure would be nice if voters grew some balls, quit voting for the same old shit and lets hold people accountable.

racefan20

join:2002-08-10
Windsor, ON

Not suprised...

Watching your every move while stealing you blind...

Ain't socialism great??

odreian615

join:2006-01-18
Chicago, IL

Re: Not suprised...

Says the guy from Canada

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by racefan20:

Watching your every move while stealing you blind...

Ain't socialism great??

I'm pretty sure this is corporatism not socialism.