 brianiscool
join:2000-08-16
Miami, FL | Right and I'll place a giant stop sign at your door. Don't enter! | |
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 | lrtc
join:2004-06-05
Toronto | Re: Right Who's next now? | |
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Siryak
join:2005-11-26 | Re: More colleges should do this I am guessing that it will be fairly difficult to block P2P. There is always some kind of a workaround.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 | |
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| osrk
join:2005-02-28
Sterling, CT
| This will not matter The University of Connecticut all did this earlier this year. They set up packet header sniffing devices on the edge of the network to inspect each packet header. Unfortunately for them it just gave all the geeks on the campus an excuse to talk to all the hot girls on how they could still download their favorite episode of "Grey's Anatomy" via enabling the encryption on there favorite bit torrent. Of course there were more modifications than that but I'll leave you to your imagination. | |
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Bill
Light Up The Halo
Premium,VIP
join:2001-12-09
clubs:
| Re: This will not matter said by osrk  :Unfortunately for them it just gave all the geeks on the campus an excuse to talk to all the hot girls on how they could still download their favorite episode of "Grey's Anatomy" via enabling the encryption on there favorite bit torrent. Maybe the university blocking P2P is a good thing then  | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? | |
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| | | osrk
join:2005-02-28
Sterling, CT
| Re: This will not matter said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again.
This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·Comcast
| Re: This will not matter said by osrk :said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again. This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P.
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Internet News
My BLOG
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| | | | | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: This will not matter said by GOLFnSUN :said by osrk :said by patcat88 :You mean VPNing through a non-uni relay to hide P2P traffic? No any sort of encryption no matter how weak will get by these devices. Torpark and the standard encryption on bittorrent easily gets by these devices and allows people to use bittorrent again. This is more like a facade than anything, it will have no lasting impact. They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P. But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA?
Egh, you can always say your rendering your powerpoint presentation over a cluster with the "RAM" of the CPU being accessed over the internet (plenty of traffic I think). | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
| Re: This will not matter said by patcat88 :But the question then is, are you required to give up your encryption keys ALA 1984 to "show" you arent guilty of a crime? Or is plausible deniability and 4th amendment still legal in USA? They could care less what you are actually transmitting. You don't HAVE to give up anything. Just as they don't HAVE to provide you with a network connection either.
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Go Colts | |
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| | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by GOLFnSUN :They will just go after those workstations exhibiting massive amounts of traffic. They will get them even if they use encryption to try and hide. Nothing the students do will hide the amount of traffic generated by P2P. ...other than the workstations that legitimately and daily genererate a lot of traffic. Some projects in CS required a lot of number-crunching and data-sharing through the computer networks there. Students tapping into this also generated a ton o' traffic.
I'd hate to see the universities cracking down on Computer Science majors acting well within their rights. | |
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DiscardedVet
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Sturgis, SD
| Re: More colleges should do this said by GOLFnSUN :The RIAA may have just given them the excuse they needed to keep their network costs from spiraling ever higher. .
I don't see where the uni would need an excuse, it's their network. If bandwidth per application exceeds normalcy and average, they can kill it simply due to burden cost. It's their call on their network.
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Bush is the Prez....Think Patriot Act II....This outspoken dissident....In jail I'll be soon. | |
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devrandom
I got a pot, full of random stuff here
Premium
join:2003-06-28 | Re: More colleges should do this If true, i'm assuming that they used the RIAA as a scapegoat of sorts to stop people from screaming at them. Making a problem somebody else's problem is a better excuse than "we don't have the money for your downloading habits" I think. | |
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| Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Er...most colleges already do port-block most P2P services, even at the cost of legitimate file transfers. For instance, using BT to grab a copy of OpenOffice behind the university is really a no-go (unless I like the trickle of ~2kbps!).
Its the university's network, and so its their rules as to how users can access the internet. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH | Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
 ·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | Re: More colleges should do this said by yock :Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed.
And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all. | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: More colleges should do this said by brandon :said by yock :Don't block the technology, block the illegal use of it. I'm incredibly disappointed by this decision. They are. If you have a legitimate use for it, then you can speak with IT and have the block removed. I fundamentally oppose assumption of guilt, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.And before you say "they should go after the offenders, rather than requiring the legitimates to request unblocking," just think of the logistics. If 99.99% of the population of the university uses p2p illegally, and 0.005% can use something besides p2p to do their work, then unblocking for the other 0.005% of the people who REQUIRE p2p would not be hard at all.
Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try.
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | Re: More colleges should do this said by yock :Sounds like the offenders should be easy to find, if they'd try. That's like saying that the offenders in a soccer riot are easy to find. Of course they are. It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty.
It's not necessarily an assumption of guilt if you allow the ability to argue your side. Otherwise we'd never arrest anyone without having a trial first because that would be assuming they were guilty, right? | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: More colleges should do this If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. This is absolutely unacceptable. I haven't done a damn thing wrong, yet my innocence is being punished because of unscrupulous peers, a heavy-handed school administration, and a powerful Washington lobby.
People have completely lost sight of what it means to fight the good fight, and will simply take the path of least resistance because it's just easier. Well wake up, it isn't easier for everyone, and the people you're making it hard for are the people who follow the rules. That isn't right, it never will be right, and it should be appalling to reasonable people.
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." | |
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GOLFnSUN
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| Re: More colleges should do this said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols.
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Internet News
My BLOG
My Web Page | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: More colleges should do this said by GOLFnSUN :said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols. Which during initial release slow to a trickle.
Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly?
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." | |
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| | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: More colleges should do this said by yock :Tell me something, how does this differ from any other debate which surrounds the control of technology to control behavior? Why does it make sense to ban p2p to prevent piracy, but banning guns to prevent violent crime is folly? You've got a point.
However, the right to bear arms is secured by the bill of rights. The right to download porn, however, was never stated.  | |
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| | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by GOLFnSUN :They can download that same software using FTP or HTTP protocols. If those also aren't blocked. (I find FTP transfers nigh-impossible sitting behind the campus network)
Not to meantion, direct FTP and/or HTTP transfers to some legit sites are slow or not offered. A P2P block certainly interferes with students trying to get these legitimate services, or at least do so in a timely fashion. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| said by yock :If I were a student at OU and I wanted to download the latest release of something (Linux ISO, OpenOffice, etc.) via BitTorrent, I would first have to gain approval from the University. You also have to get a license to drive. Your point? | |
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yock
TFTC
Premium
join:2000-11-21
Fairfield, OH
| Re: More colleges should do this Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent...
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Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation." | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: More colleges should do this said by yock :Driving requires training, as you can kill people when you operate a vehicle improperty. I dont' think the same could be said of BitTorrent... Killing someone = illegal.
Copyright infringement = illegal. | |
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| | | | | | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: More colleges should do this said by brandon :Killing someone = illegal. Copyright infringement = illegal. Umm...if you view murder as being in the same ballpark as copyright infringement...there's some problems.
You're comparing apples to oranges to prove a point. By the same token, I could very well equate George W. to the VT shooter based on the fact that they're both male. | |
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| | | | | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| said by brandon :It's finding the innocents that is difficult, and a monumental waste of time. Better to throw them all out, and let the innocents plead not guilty. Quite the "guilty until proven innocent" kinda guy, eh? | |
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Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| This is only partly due to copyright infringement A bigger reason that Ohio University has banned all p2p use
is because of the massive amounts of bandwidth it consumes.
As Slashdot user arivanov put it:
said by arivanov :
Most university IPs are real on a really high speed
connected LAN. As a result they get elected to supernode
status by most modern P2P applications. As a result the
university network becomes a jump point for NAT traversal
for all leaches within 30-60ms rtt around it. As a result
the resource usage is clearly disproportional to the actual
on-campus usage. Essentially all small and medium corporates
and home users sitting behind firewalls in the immediate
vicinity live off that resource and steal a significant
portion of the Ohio University network capacity.
And BitTorrent in particular is one of the most bandwidth
hungry p2p applications of all.
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"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot) | |
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| patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY | Re: This is only partly due to copyright infringement "NAT traversal" leeches?
What protocol is this?
I think this is refering to Skype, I dont know of any p2p apps that turn your machine into a relay other than Skype. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
| Re: This is only partly due to copyright infringement said by patcat88 :"NAT traversal" leeches? What protocol is this? I think this is refering to Skype, I dont know of any p2p apps that turn your machine into a relay other than Skype. Limewire uses supernodes, I'm sure many others do as well. | |
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zipjay
join:2003-03-11
Louisville, KY | um.. but they "pay" for the connections with those insane college tuitions | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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reverse_trend
@verizon.net | corn feed cheapskates i thought universities on the top 10 list for the riaa and top use of piratebay was a matter of pride.. its always possible to transfer to nebraska where they still love their ipod madness gone wild. | |
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twizlar
I dont think so.
Premium
join:2003-12-24
Brantford, ON | heh I like how they are implementing it. Besides, BitTorrent is a failed protocol anyways.
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AMD Athlon64 4000+ @ 2723mhz - mountaincable.net wireless Intarweb |Ipods SUCK | |
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Default_Uzer
join:2006-02-13
Springville, NY
clubs: | Re: heh BitTorrent a failed protocol, on what grounds? It's the best thing for file sharing since the original Napster. | |
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| | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: heh said by Default_Uzer :BitTorrent a failed protocol, on what grounds? Seconded.
BT is a great way to peddle around large files. We might as well label FTP a failure while we're throwing around baseless claims. | |
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krichek
join:2004-02-15
Roseville, CA | Hehe.... Doesn't WoW use a bittorrent based client for patches? | |
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| ShadezeRO
join:2006-04-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL | Re: Hehe.... Yes it does! So does Guild Wars I think, just for background tasks though.
BT should be praised by large scale company's' They save so much in bandwidth costs. | |
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karlmarx
join:2006-09-18
iraq
·Fairpoint Communic..
| A sad day for higher education This is just a cop out to 'the man'. When I was in college, sure, the internet was way smaller, but we were allowed to use it for anything we wanted to. If it's TRULY causing a problem for the dorms, then why don't they just limit the switch to 100MB or something like that per dorm. The 'shared resource' is just a bad excuse for not upgrading their network. If the students WANT to use P2P, then I wholeheartedly support them. Would napster have ever come into existance if the universities banned fanning from using their bandwidth? Certainly not. I fail to see what benefit the school gets by muzziling the free speech rights of their own students. This is a world gone mad, courtesy of the megacorps.
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Stick it to the MAN. Support your local torrent sites. Proudly providing 100mb of upstream for all your TV, Movie, and MP3 needs. | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI | Re: A sad day for higher education say good bye to p2p tv OU. | |
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| Asmodeus
join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
3 edits | Re: A sad day for karlmarx apparently, the need for 'the man' (and really, are you this befuddlingly stupid to continue using that phrase in this day and age...? who the hell still says, 'the man' except for you...) to monitor his own network takes precedent beyond the needs of the students to use p2p to download copyrighted material. And please if you are going to stoop to the "but what about linux distro's, and non-copyrighted indie stuff, etc. etc." then don't even bother letting your stubby, grease soaked fingers hit the keyboard, because your excuse will undoubtedly be lame... again...
oh, trying to equate p2p with free speech rights is symptomatic of your type of philosophy and ideology, which you've proven to be wrong, wrongheaded, illogical, irrational, and frankly downright dangerous... please, please, please try to explain how on earth p2p'ing copyrighted material is equative to free speech, much less equative to suppressing free speech rights...? have you ever stopped to wonder that the university doesn't want to the liabilities that come with unfettered and unchecked p2p downloading...? obviously you haven't thought out the ramifications of the university dealing with their own networks... the students don't own the networks by the way, but of course in your bizzaro world, they should because the mega-rich university, who by the way receives federal funding, should practice the type of wealth and information redistribution that you so hauntingly desire... the reason you fail to see the benefit of the school stopping p2p is a direct reflection on your lack of understanding that the school knows that given the circumstances, a lot of the students who p2p, when no one is looking are not doing the right thing and therefore they are nipping any potential problems that these students and their online behaviors with regards to p2p in the bud...
furthermore, you are incapable of even thinking far enough ahead that aside from the school shielding itself from any potential riaa/mpaa liabilities, which are legitimate by the way, they are also protecting their students from said liabilities as well... university has obviously not helped your critical thinking skills one bit... | |
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CableConvert
Premium
join:2003-12-05
Atlanta, GA
| Re: A sad day for karlmarx Is it their network to do with as they will...yes
Is it in the best interest of the students of OU...I would think not.
Limiting students use of the internet does not foster education or innovation IMO. They are saying P2P, but if its encrypted (and I trust before long 99% of the student body will know how)...then they will just go after heavy usage. Does anyone else see the problem here (example Canadian cable providers who spend most of their time playing cat and mouse). Also, sounds to me like there is going to be some hiring at the OU IT dept. Its gonna take more people to police the network...wonder how that figures in their IT budget | |
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reub2000
Premium
join:2001-12-28
Evanston, IL
| Re: A sad day for higher education quote:
The 'shared resource' is just a bad excuse for not upgrading their network.
Why should the university upgrade it's internet connections for recreational activities?
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My pbase gallery | |
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SandShark
So it goes
Premium,MVM
join:2000-05-23
Santa Fe, TX
clubs: | Boo hoo. Cry me a river. | |
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schmunk
Premium
join:2001-03-03
Defiance, OH | Why use the network at college Get there own connections Get there own connections like dsl or cable or wifi. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | Re: Why use the network at college Get there own connections just how exactly do you get dsl or cable internet in a dorm then?
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www.LakeSemaJ.com | |
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| | Thaler
Premium
join:2004-02-02
Encino, CA
| Re: Why use the network at college Get there own connections said by jgkolt :just how exactly do you get dsl or cable internet in a dorm then? Get an apparatment if you don't like the terms that you agree to when living in a dorm. | |
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fgjfjfgj
@shawcable.net | fee's Cost of 'secondary education' goes up because they need more tubes to feed the students their pron.
Cry me a river 'poor' students. | |
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TimetoPAYup
@comcast.net | Well at least there is no misunderstanding Hopefully OU will suspend any student who violates the university's P2P policy and help the RIAA convict these criminals. | |
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| ffink20001
join:2002-12-18
Norwich, CT | Re: Well at least there is no misunderstanding hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha thats funny | |
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Potaje
Premium
join:2002-07-28
Miami | Hmmm Hmm you are so full of it. | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Boycott OU This is just an excuse for OU not to upgrade its infrastructure. If bandwidth is such a problem then all the school has to do is start billing for bandwidth tiers. I'm sure the students will pay through the nose for it just as all students pay through the nose for higher education. But since the school isn't even thinking in terms of infrastructure upgrade or another way to squeeze students dry of cash, that tells me that OU is just a spineless sell out to the RIAA.
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The Toll
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Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA
| Re: Boycott OU I'm going to go out on a limb an suggest that perhaps OU is concerned primarily with their students quality of education, and ensuring quality internet access for all reasearch and communications.
Anything that is useful, relevant and non-infringing for students/faculty is freely available on the 'net without the need for P2P clients.
And even if there's some bit of info that simply HAS to be obtained via P2P, as per OU's new policy, go down to University IT and they'll take care of it.
With all the new free time earned from no longer downloading random crap, maybe they can go to the library and do some homework.
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The worm he licks my bones | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: Boycott OU said by Jehu :With all the new free time earned from no longer downloading random crap, maybe they can go to the library and do some homework. Hahahahahahaha. Have you ever been to college or lived on campus? I'm guessing either you haven't or it was so long ago that you just don't remember anymore. Schools aren't in the babysitting business. Students study on their own time on their own schedule if/when they want to. Prohibition of any given thing never worked in the real world and it certainly won't work on campus either.
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The Toll
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Jehu
Premium
join:2002-09-13
MA
| Re: Boycott OU huh? Did I suggest forced studying?
Anyway, Schools are not in the ISP business. As more schools become aware of how choked their connections are/are becoming, I'm sure we'll see more actions to curb P2P on campus.
It's really not an infringement thing, except that the infringement thing happens to be what chokes networks.
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The worm he licks my bones | |
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jebba2005
join:2005-01-13
Portland, ME | While they are at it ..block myspace and facebook etc. The computer lab is often full and many students are not using the computers for work purposes if you know what I mean. | |
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| Alphy
join:2001-12-31
Troy, MI | Re: While they are at it Life is good and the warez flows freely at the University of Michigan.  | |
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Jwobot
join:2002-08-14
Sterling Heights, MI | I know what what you mean. It is like that at my college. | |
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DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD | Cowardice a job requirement? Certainly (re-)proves Dennis Prager's dictum that no group is so reliably cowardly as college administrators. (BTW I'm no big fan of unrestrained P2P, but a cowardly response is a cowardly response.) | |
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Hehh
@rogers.com | Re: Cowardice a job requirement? That is because they are liberals too! | |
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN | This is non news It's their network they can do what they want. The don't need to make excuses. Unfortunately the few people that use P2P for actual necessary legal purposes suffer because of all the cheap morons who want shit for free. | |
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Freezone
join:2000-09-29
Southfield, MI | Usenet Guess I am old school but been using usenet for over 15 years. And no worries about lawsuits and the like I just leech away. | |
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Ohio University Bans P2P
More colleges should do this