OnStar Users Cut Off By Analog ShutdownManufacturers express frustration about the changing market ( old news - 02:07PM Saturday Dec 22 2007) tags: business · alternatives · wirelessTipped by LiamJunket  We’re nearing the February date when cell phone carriers will be allowed to cut off their analog networks and it turns out that the people being affected most aren’t the people with cell phones. Although nearly one million phones may lose service, it’s the people with other wireless gadgets who are having trouble making the transition. For example, individuals who use OnStar in their vehicles and analog alarm systems in their homes are finding out that they’re not going to be using those things much longer. Some consumers say that they didn’t receive fair warning about the problem. In response, OnStar’s owners (GM) say that they started modifications on their systems as soon as the FCC decision was announced back in 2002. It took a few years for the changes to take place but vehicles made after 2005 are all digital. GM says that they provide an inexpensive digital upgrade to customers and that they’ve been warning them through a website announcement about the problem. Product manufacturers are expressing concerns that this same type of situation will come up again in the near future. They say that advances in technology make it difficult to create products which are designed to last in a changing marketplace.
Related:- Monday Morning Links
- Clearwire Has 12 Months' Worth of Cash
- North Korea Allows 3G Internet Browsing
- Cable Carriers Miss Tru2Way Deadline
- Sprint Says They'll Offer 3G Femtocells Before AT&T
- Verizon: Cut Your Landline To Save Money
- AT&T: 65,000 SMS Sent Per SECOND
- Clearwire: We'll Hit 80 Markets In 18 Months
|
page: 1 · 2  |
 Syian
join:2007-12-20
Gwinn, MI
 ·Charter Pipeline
| interesting one of my housemates has a 2003 or 2004 monte carlo SS.. with onstar. i wonder if he knows about this. if not, i have a moral dilemma. tell him, or dont.
if i tell him, he fixes the problem, and i lose myself much amusement at his expense.
if i don't tell him, next time he decides to try and show off by using the built in analog cell phone in his car, it won't work. ... ... right, i'm not going to tell him >.>
i forsee much amusement in my future --
--
i used to belive in people.
then i worked in telcom.
it burned out my naivety | |
|  | 
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Re: interesting Don't forget the 3rd mortal dilemma, you decide not to tell him and when he really needs it, it's not available. It likely would only be a minor inconvenience, but if he was counting on it in case of an accident or needing some type of life threatening situation (say even yours), how would you feel, morally speaking? | |
| | | 
R4M0N
Brazilian Soccer Ownz Joo
join:2000-10-04
Glen Allen, VA
·Comcast
| Re: interesting said by cdru :Don't forget the 3rd mortal dilemma, you decide not to tell him and when he really needs it, it's not available. It likely would only be a minor inconvenience, but if he was counting on it in case of an accident or needing some type of life threatening situation (say even yours), how would you feel, morally speaking? Wow.. that is a great point that the original poster may not have thought about. Then again, he may have thought about it and was just being facetious.
Either way, props for bringing it up. | |
| | | | 
SyianKendragon
@charter.com
| Re: interesting well, tbh, i was more joking around rather than anything else... but, cdru, you do make a very good point. tho, honestly, if it was my own actions that put me in a life threatening situation, i don't really think i'd be able to say much more to myself tehn "well. shit." then whip out my personal phone which would work anywhere his onstar phone (assuming it's still old school analog, it might be analog/digital. it /is/ a really nice car) would and probably more places, and make a call.
if my phone wouldn't work there, i have a sneaking suspicion that even if the analog function wouldn't be working on the OnStar phone, if it's as "work everywhere" as it said it was when it first came out, i am betting that even if the actual analog network is down, it won't remove the ability of said onstar device to create the 911 "call" that is basically a cell phone screaming at max Tx power "I AM RIGHT HERE. EMERGENCY". because removing that sort of backwards compatibility from a system would be absolutely reta...oh shit.
...*tells his roomate*
(this is Syian or OP as you may call me for this thread. i have suffered a temporary brainblock on my account password. DAMN YOU 10 HOUR SHIFTS IN TELCOM PHONE SUPPORT. DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!!) | |
| | | gizmopt2002
join:2004-09-10
Fox River Grove, IL
| Honestly, I don't like OnStar. The bare minimum plan $24.95 a month plus taxes is good for what I would only use, which is stolen vehicle assistance, but I would much rather get LoJack as that is better. The other things are just kinda pointless to me. Do they not provide assistance if you don' pay, and do you have to actually get OnStar if your vehicle has it?
Diagnostics: Wow an e-mail telling me the status of when it needs an oil change and such. Pointless, I do my own maintenance and usually can find a problem if there even was one.
Air bag deployment: Convince, only if I couldn't move my arm a little bit to get my cell phone. If I couldn't get it chances are my voice will be too faint, or I would be unconscious in which it would be fine but 99% of the time there are people here that help people who get into accidents and call 911. Plus what if you air bags don;t go off? No call?
Crisis Assist: Seriously? Pick up the phone and call somebody.
Remote Door Unlock: Most cars today won't lock unless the drivers side door is closed, so if you manged to lock your key's in the car, I'm sorry but thats stupid, and if I ever did that I would be asking my self how stupid could I be.
Hands Free Calling: Another add on plan (more money). Again, why don't you have a cell phone?
Roadside Assistance: Cell phone, plus I already have a roadside assistance cheap through GMAC. Also my cell phone provider offers a roadside assistance add -on.
Accident Assist: call police, and call somebody.
Remote Horn & Lights: If you can't find your car, why didn't you remember or at least write down where you parked.
Some of the the other stuff can be had through a GPS. Honestly, it is just a bloated add-on. I would gladly pay $5 because of the stolen vehicle, and the airbag deployment but thats it. Plus if your battery is drained, then OnStar wouldn't work would it?
*OnStar services require vehicle electrical system (including battery), wireless service and GPS satellite signals to be available and operating for features to function properly.
Parking garages, might be out of luck. Their new digital service? Les coverage, plus they aren't as good you think they are, just because the whole state is colored doesn't mean you could coverage everywhere. Just like with nearly any coverage map, it says you have coverage throughout that highway you're going on, but your calls keep getting dropped. | |
| | | | lawrence171
Evilly Yours - Evilness
join:2001-12-24
Canada
 ·Acanac
| Re: interesting Chances are that if you air-bags were deployed, you'll be too stunned for a min or two to do anything.
The new version of OnStar can disable your vehicle, or cut its gas so it will come to a stop slowly.
--
What I used to be I no longer am... God, why can't you freeze time for my sake? | |
| | | | | | | | 
Toropop
join:2001-11-11
Vancouver, WA
 ·Vonage
1 edit | said by gizmopt2002 :Honestly, I don't like OnStar. The bare minimum plan $24.95 a month plus taxes is good for what I would only use, which is stolen vehicle assistance, but I would much rather get LoJack as that is better. The other things are just kinda pointless to me. Do they not provide assistance if you don' pay, and do you have to actually get OnStar if your vehicle has it?"OK. So OnStar doesn't work for you. Speaking as a person whose life was saved by the fine folks at OnStar, I'd like to address a few comments made by a less-than-informed poster.
Let me preface all of this by saying that I have a 2005 Acura RL that is not affected by the analog-to-digital switch.
Next, you're assuming that everyone has a cell phone. I should remind you that there are nearly 150 million Americans who /don't/ own a cell phone.
OnStar is much, much more than stolen vehicle assistance. I, too, have LoJack. But even LoJack has a bi-annual $79 checkup (read: battery change). Additionally, LoJack, according to their literature, can only be picked up by police departments or a limited number of highway patrol centers. Did I happen to mention that, again, according to their literature, there are only a little less than 300 towns/cities in the nation that can take advantage of LoJack? Compare that to the nationwide coverage of OnStar. Who's going to find your car first, even if it has been chop shopped? So, you see, LoJack is arguably /not/ better than OnStar.
Addressing your other two points in the first paragraph, no, you don't get OnStar service if you don't pay. No, you don't have to get OnStar if your vehicle comes with it. Your OnStar /will/ be able to call 9-1-1 like any other cell phone provider can, even if you don't have service. It's the law.Diagnostics: Wow an e-mail telling me the status of when it needs an oil change and such. Pointless, I do my own maintenance and usually can find a problem if there even was one.I have to agree with you on this one. Even though I don't have this service available to me (not available on non-GM cars), I've always thought it was a little weird. Thankfully, Acura has a similar service built into the RL. Oh, and it's free. But, again, just because you do your own service doesn't mean that the rest of the nation does.Air bag deployment: Convince, only if I couldn't move my arm a little bit to get my cell phone. If I couldn't get it chances are my voice will be too faint, or I would be unconscious in which it would be fine but 99% of the time there are people here that help people who get into accidents and call 911. Plus what if you air bags don;t go off? No call?So I'm to understand that you're going to have the where-with-all to pick up your cell phone to dial 9-1-1 after your airbags have deployed. Yeah, I did, too. Little did I know that I'd be too stunned from the flash burn of the airbags -- and too injured from my accident -- to remember to grab the cell phone that was a foot away from me. Assuming you have two-stage airbags in your vehicle, the first stage deploys at 40 mph, and the second stage is activated at 55 mph. Believe it or not, you can get pretty injured off of a 40 mph impact. I guess I must be one of the stupid ones, huh? Also, OnStar's accident alert doesn't only work when the airbags deploy. Although I'm not sure exactly how much of an impact you have to have, the system does trigger in an accident.
In my particular case, the idiot that hit me had knocked me into a ditch and took off. On top of this, NO ONE stopped to see that I was OK. In a matter of seconds, an OnStar operator came on to tell me that they sensed a serious impact on my car, deployed emergency personnel, and asked if I was OK. The operator stayed with me on the system whilst waiting for a first responder, which came in about 7 minutes. A couple of days later, the same operator called my house to see how I was doing.Crisis Assist: Seriously? Pick up the phone and call somebody.Again, you're assuming that everyone owns a cell phone. More seriously, a crisis, as defined by Webster's dictionary, is "a dramatic or emotional upheaval in a person's life; a condition of instability or danger." In a true crisis, you might not have the sense to pick up your phone and dial a 7- or 10-digit number. Granted, you might also not remember to hit the OnStar panic button, either.Remote Door Unlock: Most cars today won't lock unless the drivers side door is closed, so if you manged to lock your key's in the car, I'm sorry but thats stupid, and if I ever did that I would be asking my self how stupid could I be.Remote door unlock (or lock, which you didn't mention) proves useful when, you know, your keys have been lost or stolen. This feature also includes the ability to kill the engine. In fairness, though, most cars these days have alarm/safety systems that already include a kill-engine feature. Also, you're right in that many new cars won't allow you to lock your doors if it detects that the fob is inside the vehicle. Most don't have this feature.Hands Free Calling: Another add on plan (more money). Again, why don't you have a cell phone?You've never ever forgotten your cell phone, huh? Never. For the bare minimum, 30 minutes costs $19.95. If you have Verizon, minutes can be included as part of your plan.Roadside Assistance: Cell phone, plus I already have a roadside assistance cheap through GMAC. Also my cell phone provider offers a roadside assistance add-on.Add-ons... cost money, too (*gasp*). Oh, and even /you/ had to pay for roadside assistance with GMAC. Either way, you pay. Fortunately, for me, my car came with lifetime roadside assistance.Accident Assist: call police, and call somebody.I think I covered this one already. But again, you've been in an accident. It could be major. You could be stunned. You could've forgotten your cell phone, or, your cell phone could've been launched out of your car.Remote Horn & Lights: If you can't find your car, why didn't you remember or at least write down where you parked.
Some of the the other stuff can be had through a GPS. Honestly, it is just a bloated add-on. I would gladly pay $5 because of the stolen vehicle, and the airbag deployment but thats it. Plus if your battery is drained, then OnStar wouldn't work would it?Yes, OnStar still works. According to OnStar, the system needs the vehicle electrical system as a backup and to recharge the onboard battery for OnStar. The OnStar system uses a stronger wattage system than traditional cell phones, which means that it can pickup service and signals more readily than your cell phone can. I can't really say for sure about the GPS signal part. In my Acura Satellite Navigation system, and with my XM radio, I have driven through the entirety of many tunnels here and have not lost the signal. I am /not/ saying, however, that this could never happen.*OnStar services require vehicle electrical system (including battery), wireless service and GPS satellite signals to be available and operating for features to function properly.
Parking garages, might be out of luck. Their new digital service? Les coverage, plus they aren't as good you think they are, just because the whole state is colored doesn't mean you could coverage everywhere. Just like with nearly any coverage map, it says you have coverage throughout that highway you're going on, but your calls keep getting dropped.In fairness, the sole reliance on the digital system does concern me a little. This is especially true on the West Coast where it's less-densely populated. I'm sure, however, that this would unlikely be a problem east of the Mississippi. | |
| | | | 
JoeOnSunset
Doublethink Is Doubleplus Ungood.
Premium
join:2002-11-25
Ormond Beach, FL
| said by gizmopt2002 :Most cars today won't lock unless the drivers side door is closed, so if you manged to lock your key's in the car, I'm sorry but thats stupid, and if I ever did that I would be asking my self how stupid could I be. Ironic to use grammar like that to call people stupid. Wow. | |
| | | 
DreamWraith
Premium
join:2004-04-07
Mount Vernon, WA
·Comcast
| said by cdru :Don't forget the 3rd mortal dilemma, you decide not to tell him and when he really needs it, it's not available. It likely would only be a minor inconvenience, but if he was counting on it in case of an accident or needing some type of life threatening situation (say even yours), how would you feel, morally speaking? anyone relying on OnStar to save their life is in serious need of a reality check anyways.
and who enjoys having their car tracked by gps? i certainly wouldn't want the government to be able to subpoena my current location. | |
| 
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Bull F'ing Crap I bought a Saab in 2005 which came with Onstar...but it never worked because the hardware was Analog and Verizon's analog network in Chicago is not the best.
First the dealer and Saab, which is owned by GM, denied the problem. Then they tried to claim that service was working fine when it would only connect one out of every 10 tries or so.
Finally, they confessed and said there is no digital hardware available yet, and to placate me and prevent me from suing their pants off and making a big stink about it, they wrote me a check for 5k. I was pretty happy about that. But prepared for the Analog shut-off, they were not!
Onstar also provides white label telematic services for some other snooty brands which think they're too cool to have OnStar in them....and those brands are SOL too!
--
»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
| | Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | Re: Bull F'ing Crap id imagine BMW and MB services also backbone with OnStar. and just call it something else.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
| | | 
imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by Kearnstd :id imagine BMW and MB services also backbone with OnStar. and just call it something else. They aren't. Their system is made by themselves. | |
| | | Windogg
join:2002-07-24
Cambridge, MA | BMW Assist is digital and has radios for TDMA, GSM, and CDMA networks. | |
| |
cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
·Verizon FIOS
| said by kapil :but it never worked because the hardware was Analog and Verizon's analog network in Chicago is not the best. ... and to placate me and prevent me from suing their pants off Why would Verizon's lack of decent analog service be OnStar's fault, let alone legally liable? At best it would be they sold you a product that didn't work well in a given area. If it worked fine in a better serviced analog area, it's hardly a defective product. | |
| | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap Because I don't buy the hardware from GM/Onstar and the connectivity from Verizon separately...I buy Onstar and it's Onstar's job to make sure it works. Especially since one of the biggest selling points of their service is the safety/security aspect of it.
They sold it to me knowing full well that Analog is going away...and I suspect I wasn't the only one they sold it to. So, instead of inflaming the situation and possibly ending up with a class action lawsuit on their hands, they did the smart thing and bought off the complaining owners.
I should add that I was rather pleased with how they handled it at the corporate level after the initial BS I had to put up with while the dealer and the service rep were trying to make it my problem.
--
»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
| | | | 
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by kapil :They sold it to me knowing full well that Analog is going away...and I suspect I wasn't the only one they sold it to. What did you expect? It is a car dealership.
When airbags were mandated in cars back in the 1990s (or whenever it was, I don't remember), they still had to sell the cars which lacked airbags. They made up all sorts of silly claims about cars with airbags somehow being more "dangerous" than cars without them.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap LOL. Funny you bring that up...I recently had a similar conversation about a hybrid car with a salesman who didn't have any in stock to sell.
He tried every trick in the book to steer me away from a hybrid...and towards regular car he just happened to have in stock.
I never knew that the chemical in the batteries used in hybrids vaporizes and can enter the vehicle and kill the occupants...almost like carbon monoxide. LOL.
--
»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
| | | | | |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by kapil :He tried every trick in the book to steer me away from a hybrid...and towards regular car he just happened to have in stock. I never knew that the chemical in the batteries used in hybrids vaporizes and can enter the vehicle and kill the occupants...almost like carbon monoxide. LOL. Well there are legitimate issues related to hybrids that will forever keep me from buying them. They aren't related to the bona fide BS that the dealer tried feeding you, but that brings me to another point.
I personally think the best way to buy a car is to research it on Edmunds (no I don't work for them). We bought our last car in June of 2007. We ended up picking out a 2007 Honda Civic EX (non-hybrid) with a bunch of options we liked, and then submitted the quote to a bunch of local dealers. We bought the car from the dealer with the lowest quote. No haggling and no BS were involved, and we paid about quite a bit below the "invoice" price of the car.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | | Shark_615
join:2006-01-17
Pickering, ON
| Hybrid cars are not as great as the auto-hippies would like you to believe. The batteries are expensive to make both dollar and environementally wise, the MPG is not anywhere near what the sticker says and your net savings in regards to the 'environment' are lower then other more conventional vehicles.
Of course you do get a large does of smug so that may be worth it | |
| | | | | | |
kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap I think the real value of Hybrids is that they force us to think different. We are not going to save the planet with Hybrid cars...but if we can think up a Hybrid car, we can follow up with Hydrogen cars...and who knows what's next.
--
»PropertyMaps.com - Real-time, map based, nationwide MLS property search! | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | wtansill
Ncc1701
join:2000-10-10
Falls Church, VA
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap Because many forklifts are used indoors. 30+ years ago as a teenager, I worked in several warehouses driving propane-powered forklifts. Propane was far better than gasoline because the emissions were not harmful enough to kill us in the warehouse. Fuel cells are a further improvement over that. | |
| | | | | | | | | | hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Toledo, OH
·buckeye cable
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap the company i work for uses LP forklifts they're great. we get about 2 maybe 3 days worth of 12hour a day use out of them. everything else is electric-- we charge them about once a day sometimes more depending on how much use- electric pallet jacks, narrow-isle forklifts; etc.
I love my LP forklift. | |
| | | | | | | |
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| said by kapil :I think the real value of Hybrids is that they force us to think different. We have Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel now. If more car companies started selling diesel vehicles once again we'd get a significant boost in gas mileage.
Of course, the Federal government is wedded to ethanol thanks to agri-business. Most states also tax diesel fuel higher than unleaded. I guess that just proves once again government is the cause of the problem here.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. | |
| | | | | | | | |
imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by pnh102 : If more car companies started selling diesel vehicles once again we'd get a significant boost in gas mileage. Only if Americans can get it out of their heads that diesels are not the slow black smoke belching cars that they once were. Fact is, Americans as a whole don't embrace diesel engines like the Europeans do. | |
| | | | | | | | | | 
3SGTE
ST215W
Premium,MVM
join:2000-11-23
there
clubs:
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap Diesel exhaust aftertreatment and emissions component costs are easily as much as any additional costs associated with a hybrid.
In addition to the additional equipment costs for diesel, there are concerns about the longevity of those aftertreatment systems.
Who wants a plugged particulate filter, or a leaking exhaust fuel injector (or in-cylinder injector as in the video)? Perhaps a plugged EGR cooler is preferable?
»www.youtube.com/watch?v=321LwkM7i90
Significant gains for either diesel or gasoline are going to come with costs.
--
Overheard: "I could careless matter of Fact"
| |
| | | | | | | | | 
KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by pnh102 :Of course, the Federal government is wedded to ethanol thanks to agri-business. Most states also tax diesel fuel higher than unleaded. I guess that just proves once again government is the cause of the problem here. Actually, the cause of the problem is that Government is wedded to lobbyist dollars and large business interests--- not the citizenry. This whole ethanol thing is such a bill of goods. Whatever happens, it's designed to extract maximum profits, not actually achieve anything useful.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | | | | | | | DMS1
join:2005-04-06
Carrollton, TX
| said by kapil :I think the real value of Hybrids is that they force us to think different. We are not going to save the planet with Hybrid cars...but if we can think up a Hybrid car, we can follow up with Hydrogen cars...and who knows what's next. The problem is that hydrogen-powered cars aren't going to solve much either. They certainly eliminate harmful emissions from the car itself, but since we don't have access to a plentiful supply of molecular hydrogen, one has to consider how the fuel is produced. One option is to produce it chemically from hydrocarbons - i.e. fossil fuels, and another is to produce it by electrolysis of water which requires loads of energy which would probably come from fossil fuels! | |
| | | | | | | | |
factchecker
@cox.net
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by DMS1 :The problem is that hydrogen-powered cars aren't going to solve much either. They certainly eliminate harmful emissions from the car itself, but since we don't have access to a plentiful supply of molecular hydrogen, one has to consider how the fuel is produced. One option is to produce it chemically from hydrocarbons - i.e. fossil fuels, and another is to produce it by electrolysis of water which requires loads of energy which would probably come from fossil fuels! Solar powered and geothermal electrolysis plants... The Europeans have working setups already in testing. | |
| | | | | | | | | | 
fireflier
Coffee. . .Need Coffee
Premium
join:2001-05-25
Limbo
·Skype
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by factchecker :
Solar powered and geothermal electrolysis plants... The Europeans have working setups already in testing.
Solar. Probably. Geo, not likely. Wind will probably supplement demand as well but it's horribly unpredictable from day to day. In most areas of the country, drilling to the depths necessary for geothermal would make station construction prohibitively expensive. Solar has the drawback of limited energy production / ft^2 and worse yet, it could prduce hydrogen at most 12 hours/day (well unless you live in Alaska).
If memory serves, Sweden has a southern highway ring with hydrogen stations for the limited demand but those won't keep up with the current auto infrastructure demand. I'm not even sure if all the existing stations could convert to solar producing hydrogen that enough could be produced to run all the cars on the road if they switched.
Like it or not, the most likely candidate for massive quantities of hydrogen production may well come from nuclear. Nukes are among the highest output plants in existence, and barring turbine/generator equipment problems, they run pretty much non-stop between re-fuelings.
--
Wishes: When you wish upon a falling star, your dreams can come true. Unless it's really a meteorite hurtling to the Earth which will destroy all life. Then you're pretty much hosed no matter what you wish for. Unless it's death by meteor. --despair.com | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | jay_rm
join:2002-04-12
Netville
 ·Fox Valley Internet
·ViaTalk
| Re: Bull F'ing Crap said by SuperJoker :Don't forget Nuclear power, US Navy vessels like Subs and Aircraft Carriers use It and have used It safely for years for their power needs and also make fresh water in abundance too. If You can make water, One can crack It too.  You don't need to do ANYTHING else to make H2. In a boiling water reactor (BWR - one of the two electricity generating types of plants used in the USA) hydrogen gas is produced as a BY PRODUCT of the nuclear steam cycle. The plant operators have to make a significant investment in re-combination equipment to reconvert the hydrogen and reduce system operating pressure. The nuclear operators would LOVE a market for their hydrogen. Not only can they make money selling it, they can do away with a major expense in electrical generation.
BTW, I'm told that the military has lost or misplaced more nuclear material then all the US commercial operators combined (who have lost or misplaced NONE).
Also, did you know the reason commercial generating companies have a disposal problem with spent fuel is that a Carter Administration law prevents them from using high-grade fuel (like the military uses), which is recyclable ?? Yep - your Government at work...
--
3500/512 5.7 GHz Motorola Canopy Wireless; FoxValley.net
"Peace through superior firepower" | |
| | | | | | | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
·SONIC.NET
| said by kapil :I think the real value of Hybrids is that they force us to think different. We are not going to save the planet with Hybrid cars...but if we can think up a Hybrid car, we can follow up with Hydrogen cars...and who knows what's next. I agree.
Next is nuclear power to replace coal, oil, and natural gas based electrical (and perhaps in some areas heat) production, and shift our almost half to one century or so national natural gas reserves into automobiles, thus ending our dependence on foreign oil for good (since after about half a century of natural gas use, we'll still have nuclear power which will allow us to use something like fuel cells). First, the pollution from nasty Gore-coal and Bush-oil burning plants will disappear (which is much more pollution than what the automobiles make), then the pollution from the natural gas use would slowly phase out as we start using the then cheaper and abundant electrical supply to do more and more (replacing natural gas use in heaters (space, water, cooking) and vehicles).
Yes, it's a first step. Not a very big one, but a first step, and a good one, to get experience with hybrid driven vehicles.
BTW the conversion to automobiles using natural gas is relatively cheap compared to the investment necessary to fire up our new nuclear power plants. I suggest using safer more failure resistant versions of nuclear now available, just for their safety aspects, but either way.
Oh, you know, much of the world, including now Asia has overtaken us in broadband penetratation. Well, much of the world, including now Asia, is overtaking us in environmentally friendly nuclear power production, too. And, much of the world, including now China, are in on nuclear fusion experiments, which will allow much more electrical production than before from what I understand. Nevertheless, it would make sense to start building modern nuclear power plants now in this country to replace all of our coal, oil, and natural gas burning plants.
Windmills are great when the wind is blowing, and I can see their energy being used to pump into buffers -- such as pump water into storage tanks. That would require higher volume pumps for their relatively shorter running times, higher transit (pipe) and buffer (tank) sizes to handle the sporadic nature of windmills, but in many situations it would be making good use of such an energy source. However, without a good financial, design and mechanical model for such windmill use, their usefulness is much less than nuclear power plants. I'm all for windmills, though, if such designs can be implemented -- their age has come again.
Let's not stop at hybrids by any means. | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | margaf77
join:2000-12-22
Rego Park, NY
·RoadRunner Cable
| said by kapil :LOL. Funny you bring that up...I recently had a similar conversation about a hybrid car with a salesman who didn't have any in stock to sell. He tried every trick in the book to steer me away from a hybrid...and towards regular car he just happened to have in stock. I never knew that the chemical in the batteries used in hybrids vaporizes and can enter the vehicle and kill the occupants...almost like carbon monoxide. LOL. They only trigger that if you dont make your payments | |
| | | | 
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| OnStar Digital Locked To 1 Technology: 1xRTT CDMA Their big deal is with Verizon, but the new Digital equipment is supposed to be Dual-Band CDMA (800MHz-1900MHz), so Sprint, Alltel, MetroPCS, Cricket, are possible other providers.
GSM/UMTS/WCDMA not an option, but it looks like EVDO Rev.A/B/ or LTE isn't in the cards either.
My 2007 Pontiac Grand Prix plays nice with Verizon 1x CDMA, but there are no promises that I won't need to buy an upgrade radio module for whatever they try over the next 5 years.
I think they hesitated until the last minute to see what digital technology would prevail, or at least offer the best coverage/service reliability.
That is why they just woke up to including digital technology in the past few years.
They had to consider Analog, TDMA, GSM, CDMA, plus multi-band operation.
By 2012, the current digital equipment might need replacement as well.
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" | |
| | | | 
AnonProxy
Proxy of Anon
Premium
join:2001-05-12
ß | I'm with you! Your story sounds like Bull F'ing crap. | |
| ditka_b
Premium
join:2001-10-05
Barrington, IL | They "can legally" turn off analog (TDMA) in '08 But it will be a long time before they actually do. Especially in rural areas. Remember TV is different than cellular.. | |
| | Kaiserj
join:2001-07-31
Wausau, WI
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: They "can legally" turn off analog (TDMA) in '08 I think this time next year most analog/TDMA systems will be turned off. The bigger carriers need the resources to keep up with demand and build out the next generation of service. Small networks still using Analog/TDMA systems will find their customers running to the competition when they can no longer get service outside their home network. | |
| | | | 
quetwo
That VoIP Guy
Premium
join:2004-09-04
East Lansing, MI
| Doubt it. The carriers have to pay the same amount for a given 25Mhz of spectrum, if it is used for digital or analog. Digital can carry much more voice traffic, and is generally accepted as clearer (although more compressed). Cell companies were forced to keep 'some' analog equipment working for legacy customers. Now they can reclaim that space and put, lets say 32 conversations on the space that a single customer took up with analog. | |
| |
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| Uh, TDMA is digital(D-AMPS), but has been pretty much phased out in favor of GSM and more advanced technologies.
AT&T pretty much abandoned TDMA already, they started tossing it out the window in the the early days of Cingular.
The Analog shutdown in February refers to AMPS, the original Analog Cellular format.
The rule simply allows the carriers to turn off Analog if they wish, but it is not a forced transition like Analog TV to Digital TV
They could keep using TDMA if they wanted to, because it is 2-3 times more spectrally efficient than AMPS, but both the original IS-56(D-AMPS), and Improved IS-136(D-AMPS),CODECS produce a terrible fidelity, almost 'Robotic' sounding audio reproduction.
So far the evolution of the original Analog AMPS in the US and Canada, has moved to 2 variants of D-AMPS(aka TDMA), then to GSM, GPRS, EDGE, and UMTS(W-CDMA) and HSDPA.
Starting with European countries and phasing in through out much of the world, they went from Analog to GSM, skipping over the D-AMPS stage.
On the other end in the US and Canada, you saw AMPS, evolve to IS-95 (CDMA ONE), then your evolved CDMA2000, 1xRTT, 3xRTT, EVDO Rev.(A, B, C).
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" | |
| 
newview
Ex .. Ex .. Exactly
Premium
join:2001-10-01
Parsonsburg, MD
| You're gonna have to just deal with it quote:
Product manufacturers . . . say that advances in technology make it difficult to create products which are designed to last in a changing marketplace.
If manufacturers are not willing to deal with issues affecting their products that evolve from a changing technology, then they should not be selling the product in the first place.
--
Ö¿Ö
The Rules of Spam | Maryland's Newest Anti-Spam Law
Where are we going? And what's with the hand basket? | |
| | bicker
join:2007-05-10
Burlington, MA
| Re: You're gonna have to just deal with it said by newview :If manufacturers are not willing to deal with issues affecting their products that evolve from a changing technology, then they should not be selling the product in the first place. That would be nice, I suppose, but it isn't reality. Rather, manufacturers are responsible for supporting their product as they sell it, in the environment it is sold in. | |
| 
NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| With LTE it will happen again. Honestly though 8 years will probably be the length of time before all the legacy 3g networks go away. Americans on average keep a car 3 years.
--
Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net | |
| | 
jtudor
Xm 60's On 6 Freak
Premium,MVM
join:2002-12-07
Morganton, NC
| Re: With LTE it will happen again. said by NOCMan :Honestly though 8 years will probably be the length of time before all the legacy 3g networks go away. Americans on average keep a car 3 years. This is true of the original owner, but remember there is a secondary market too, and the next owner will probably want to have OnStar too.
--
Best of luck
"Do, or Do not, there is no try!" Yoda
| |
| | | | 
Camelot One
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-21
Sarasota, FL
clubs:
·VoicePulse
| Upgrade not available to everyone "GM says that they provide an inexpensive digital upgrade to customers and that they’ve been warning them through a website announcement about the problem."
The $15 "Upgrade" is only offered on certain models built between 2002 and 2005. Not all of them, and nothing for cars built before that.
--
Intel Quad Core QX6700 @3500Mhz/Asus P5N32-E SLI/4x 1024Mb Corsair/Seagate 750.10/PNY 7800GTs SLI/Silverstone 850W/Custom water cooler | |
| wvcaver
Premium
join:2005-04-17
Millersburg, OH | OnStar commercials Does this mean i wont have to hear the damn commercials anymore ? | |
| |
imrf
Premium
join:2002-06-06
Utica, MI
·WOW Internet and C..
| Re: OnStar commercials said by wvcaver :Does this mean i wont have to hear the damn commercials anymore ? Why would it? OnStar isn't going anywhere. | |
| 
Mactron
Happy 4th
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv
| PO'd at first But GM sent an offer for a Digital upgrade for her 2004 Silverado. $200 for the Digital conversion installed and a years worth of service. It was in by 8am, and out complete at 5pm. The dealer actually did a nice job. The Digital unit understands voice commands much better than the old Analog unit did. She's Happy !
--
If only the Verizon CSRs worked this well.  | |
| 
aaronwt
Premium
join:2004-11-07
Woodbridge, VA | They have been talking about this for years Thay have been talking about the analog cellphone cut off for years. If people don't even know about that what will happen in 2009 with the analog TV is cutoff. | |
| 
Jameson
10-8
Premium
join:2004-05-28
Fallbrook, CA
clubs: | Have to pay? That should be free OnStar.. | |
| | 
ahulett
Life Without Walls
Premium
join:2003-02-02
Bellevue, WA | Re: Have to pay? Last year I bought a 3-year plan. The equipment upgrade was free. | |
|
motorolaman
@cox.net
| living in the heartland my significant other has '04 tahoe with factory OnStar. original unit was analog/digital which provided excellent coverage where she lives and works (analog) and weekend trips to Atlanta and Houston (digital). the OnStar unit died last year and the fun began. multiple trips to her dealer, first to diagnose and remove old unit (warranty), and then return three days later to install new unit. dealer had to ship old unit to OnStar before they would ship replacement. new unit had different phone number- OnStar said they were unable to port old number. she drives home and on the way realizes OnStar still doesn't work. return to dealer who determines that new unit is digital only and won't work in her home area which is still analog. been without for almost two years. let subscription expire as local cellular provider could not tell us when and if they are upgrading to digital. anyone who spends the money for conversion should ensure they will have coverage after switch. I think the conversion costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 (part) plus labor to install. | |
| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| Re: living in the heartland said by motorolaman :
my significant other has '04 tahoe with factory OnStar. original unit was analog/digital which provided excellent coverage where she lives and works (analog) and weekend trips to Atlanta and Houston (digital). the OnStar unit died last year and the fun began. multiple trips to her dealer, first to diagnose and remove old unit (warranty), and then return three days later to install new unit. dealer had to ship old unit to OnStar before they would ship replacement. new unit had different phone number- OnStar said they were unable to port old number. she drives home and on the way realizes OnStar still doesn't work. return to dealer who determines that new unit is digital only and won't work in her home area which is still analog. been without for almost two years. let subscription expire as local cellular provider could not tell us when and if they are upgrading to digital. anyone who spends the money for conversion should ensure they will have coverage after switch. I think the conversion costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 (part) plus labor to install.
I think this is a problem of GSM vs CDMA. What are you going to do if there is 1 but not the other. Analog was the standard you could always fall back to, now what? | |
| | | | 
grydlok
join:2004-01-06
Richmond, VA | Onstar never Notified me Great now i have to shell out money to get it newer unit. Them F@#$@ could have said something when I re-enrolled 6 months ago. | |
| |
DeeplyShrouded
@comcast.net | Ham Radio :) [Pats ham radio] Good old standby 
--Deeply Shrouded & Quiet
--Central Control! D-Dial #49 | |
| | | 
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Ham Radio :) LOL
Ham radio (dual band VHF/UHF in my NON On star Silverado), a decent emergency kit, cellphone for back up, and a Glock 22 .40 S&W.
On... WHO????
--
Petty people are disproportionably corrupted by petty power… | |
| | | |
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs:
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FIOS
| Re: Ham Radio :) said by N3OGH :LOL Ham radio (dual band VHF/UHF in my NON On star Silverado), a decent emergency kit, cellphone for back up, and a Glock 22 .40 S&W. On... WHO???? There you go!!!
We have the upgrade from On-Star to ON-Target.
With all the 'Smart Gun' technology becoming mandatory in some states, we need a GPS enabled handgun that automatically dispatches a medical examiner with Body Bags when the trigger is pulled.
A simple trade off to Body-Bag Deployment vs. Air-Bag Deployment notification.
Before the anti-gun zealots come out of the woodwork on this, N3OGH is a real cop, one of the GOOD GUYS.
Now we only need Police Cruisers with GPS 'Turn by Turn Navigation' to the closest Dunkin' Donuts. 
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" | |
| | | | | Ulmo
join:2005-09-22
San Jose, CA | Re: Ham Radio :) Mio $150 | |
| 
Hank
Its all relative
Premium
join:2002-05-21
Burlington, WV
| Not true about digital conversion offered for OnStar I have repeatedly asked OnStar if there is a digital conversion available and they have continued to advise that there is none. When I pressed them about it they said they tried to convert the systems to digital but they could not get the sensors to function properly. | |
|
KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
clubs: | Warranty Claim Anyone??? If a factory installed 'stock' component of the vehicle becomes unusable under the standard/extended warranty period, this should be a no brainer free replacement.
Right??
--
"Lithium is no longer available on credit" | |
| | 
phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Winter Park, FL
·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| You know, you'd think... GM, and other manufacturers should provide the part needed to convert the units for free. If you considered the alternative, which is have GM purchase the analog network Verizon is doing away with, which would be MUCH more costly, considering maintenance, and billing systems, etc... So I say they just replace it free of charge for those folks who just so happen to have a car that is a little older than the digital systems being used now. Of course there could be a clause stating the vehicle must me in beautiful condition to qualify, that way they aren't wasting ALL their "free" upgrades on junkers. But yeah, if it was sold, it should be granted to folks who paid, and still do pay for it. Either that, or they should buy the person a free Garmin, or something equivalent to On-Star, geez.  Or maybe they can make some money selling them on e-bay so people can hack it with a laptop for a live GPS receiver. Then who needs On-Star Navagation, lol, WHOO HOO!!!
--
SIPPhone/Gizmo # 17476200648 / PIMPNET Chatline / Ran by Asterisk & Slackware 10.1. | |
| Network Guy
join:2000-08-25
New York | GM announced this a while ago I remember the announcement, and I don't even have onstar.
Some people need to read tablois every once in a while. | |
| | 
mouseferatu
Too many cats, Too many mice
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-16
Im not sure
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
·Fairpoint Communic..
·Comcast
| Re: GM announced this a while ago said by Network Guy :I remember the announcement, and I don't even have onstar. Some people need to read tablois every once in a while. GM did announce this, and any number of GM customers are still waiting for GM to get their act together and resolve their issues as to WTH they are doing to finish this upgrade.
I was informed in August, by standard mail, that I could/should bring my car in and get the OnStar unit upgraded for $275. It was a same day in and out deal at any GM dealership.
I have a 2002 Bravada with 24K miles on it. None of the 4 local GM dealerships have managed to figure out what they need to do to upgrade it. The vehicle model is discontinued, but the OnStar unit is no different than any other of that manufacture period.
I only use that SUV in bad winter weather, and I travel a lot of remote roads. I can pick up a cell with OnStar when my cell phone(s) fail, and it initiates a 911 activation if the airbags deploy.
As a retired medic, I have a liking for OnStar, as I have pulled a lot of folks out of cars in ditches, etc. that might not have been found alive had OnStar not activated.
At this point, it would seem likely that my vehicle will not get properly upgraded. GM has the $275 that they required from me to even order "the parts", and I have put in a complaint to the GM rep. Guess I will see what happens next.
--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crispy and good with catsup." | |
| 
TMMerlin
The Devil made me do it
join:2003-06-19
Oxford, MI | I am 100% not impacted by OnStar or analog network turn off When I got my 2003 GMC Yukon ...
I never turned the service on .. I already had a cellphone .! | |
| | 
AnClar
Premium
join:2003-07-31
Belton, TX
| Re: I am 100% not impacted by OnStar or analog network turn off And what NO ONE has mentioned thus far is that VOLVO (Ford) similarly screwed their On-Call (their version of On Star) users last year, and seems to have totally gotten away with it.
I bought my wife a 2004 Volvo S80 with On Call service because she frequently drives alone, is not very tech savvy, and wanted the additional security of automatic emergency dispatch on air bag deployment. Volvo WITHOUT ANY WARNING WHATSOEVER cut off all their On Call users at the end of last year. The way I found out about this was that we had activated the built-in cell phone (for hands-free safety reasons) this is before the advent of Bluetooth enabled cars, and when we moved, I wanted to get a new local number for the cell phone. The Verizon operator told me that it would be impossible to get a new number as the on board phone and On Call unit was analog and the On Call service would be terminated as well.
When I confronted my dealer about this he was clueless. I then called Volvo North America customer service and asked them about the situation. The customer service rep was sympathetic and told me that there were many unhappy users in the same position as I was. He informed me that Volvo had NO plans whatsoever to retrofit any of their On Call equipped vehicles and that, basically, we were SOL. He said that "as a courtesy" the Volvo dealer would remove the now useless phone and On Call unit and replace it with a nice storage box. 
Because of the callous disdain with which FORD/VOLVO treated me and their other On Call customers...I will NEVER buy another FORD or VOLVO product again. I refuse to spend my money on products from companies who do not give a damn about their customers. I would have been unhappy, but a lot less angry if someone at VOLVO/FORD would have taken the time to warn me and the other defrauded On Call users about the impending shutdown. The absolute corporate indifference is what made up my mind for me. I seriously considered initiating a class-action lawsuit against FORD/VOLVO for the way they went about this, but, frankly, I have more important ways to spend my time.
--
When in danger or in doubt run in circles, scream and shout! | |
| | | 
Snickerdo
Premium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | Re: I am 100% not impacted by OnStar or analog network turn off Oh come on now I wouldn't call what you had happen fraud, but a letter informing you that the service was being terminated would certainly have been a nice thing on their part, especially if you are relying on this for safety reasons. | |
| | | |
|
|
Be sure to check onstar's site as well