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story category Opt Out Of Comcast Arbitration
Assuming you enjoy having your legal rights...
10:53AM Wednesday Jan 30 2008 by Karl Bode
tags: legal · business · cable · Comcast
AT&T, Comcast and T-Mobile were recently slapped down by the courts for trying to bury language in your terms of service that would limit your legal rights. The companies have tried to force consumers to take place in mandatory arbitration instead of having their grievances heard in a court of law. Not surprisingly, arbitration almost always rules against you.

The primary goal is to prevent you from participating in a class action lawsuit against your provider -- say, for forging TCP packets (court pdf) in order to slow upstream p2p traffic. The Consumerist notes that Comcast customers have another opportunity to opt-out of arbitration via this months bill -- simply head to this Comcast website and enter your information.

Related:
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  3. Comcast Tells FCC To Butt Out
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  5. Comcast Contractors Arrested for Animal Cruelty
  6. Comcast Circulates Unredacted User Check Online
  7. NY AG Will Sue Comcast If They Don't Pretend To Fight Child Porn
  8. Comcast Hit With Another Throttling Lawsuit
Forums » Opt Out Of Comcast Arbitration
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Post a:

verolom

join:2002-03-23
Eatontown, NJ

Double edge

Does this mean that if a customer opts out of arbitration Comcast can now sue them in court? They can find reasons, I am sure.

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

Re: Double edge

Comcast could sue you either way since that would be for totally different things like failure to pay (or their failure to credit you properly), etc. The arbitration clauses almost always are written heavily against the customer.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.

jjoshua
Premium
join:2001-06-01
Scotch Plains, NJ

Why?

Why should anyone even have to opt-out?
mlundin

join:2001-03-27
Mishawaka, IN

Re: Why?

Because otherwise a court won't hear your case.
Doug135

join:2008-01-12
Laredo, TX

Re: Why?

They'll find other ways to strike you down. Glad I'm not with Comcast, even though AT&T is just as bad.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA
1st: I believe his question is not about what it means, but why anyone should have to opt-out of having their rights taken away.

2nd: The courts will require you to fight the arbitration clause BEFORE you can bring suit against Comcast.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL

Sheer stupidity on Comcast's part

With all the media light being shed on this, they are just asking for legislation to invalidate every single one of the arbitration clauses.

If it is found that arbitration is not the un-biased forum that it claims to be, they could find themselves in a worse situation than before. Imagine if any contract with an arbitration company violates the law because of a perceived sense of bias. This would be the end of arbitration.
pooker314

join:2005-04-12
Brush Prairie, WA

Re: Sheer stupidity on Comcast's part

said by moonpuppy See Profile :

With all the media light being shed on this, they are just asking for legislation to invalidate every single one of the arbitration clauses.
The Washington Supreme Court did just that with respect to class action lawsuits.

»seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/···n13.html

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

I think the insurance companies are doing a bang-up job of drawing attention to this all by themselves, but Comcast certainly should know better. Sadly, they are doing the same "opt-out" scheme used by spammers and telemarketers to erode customers' legal rights. I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.
--
Toolmaster of La Grange.
ricklg
Premium
join:2004-03-07
Laurel, MD
·Comcast


edit:
January 30th, @11:03AM

OK, but now what?

I opted out when they first offered it in December. I went to their web page, filled everything out, and sent it. The web page declared success.

Now I know Comcast's records are always correct and up to date , but how much you want to bet that if I ever try to sue, they'll tell me they have no record of my opt-out?

They always seem to know where to send the bill tho

IT Guy
Your God Smells Funny

join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
·Comcast

Re: OK, but now what?

As many times as they have screwed up my accounts and our business accounts due to lax record keeping, I have come to expect that from Comcast.
--
My time is a piece of wax, falling on a termite, that's choking on a splinter. --Beck

fishmaster
Premium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL

Waiting for the assimulation

I wonder about us folks that are being converted from Insight?? Our Options are??

S_engineer

join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL

Re: Waiting for the assimulation

said by fishmaster See Profile :

I wonder about us folks that are being converted from Insight?? Our Options are??
Open your bank account and sign, or find someone else!

fishmaster
Premium
join:2004-10-08
Rockford, IL
·Comcast
·Insight Communicat..


edit:
January 31st, @06:38AM

Re: Waiting for the assimulation

I figured it would be a short period of time before some snotty nosed brat would make some asinine remark. You took the bait hook, line and sinker in a matter of a couple hours. Ahh the Joys of posting comments and other folk reading it with their own attitudes. Now scoot... off to the corner you go...

Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs:

Personally..

rather than fighting or opposing something like this..
what should be the issue is the way the arbitrator is selected.

The system itself is not a bad system. It's a great way to fight back against an out of control legal system that awards people 20 million bucks for a spilled cup of coffee. And that winds up costing us ALL money because those verdicts get passed along in the form of price increases.

There is nothing wrong with having a neutral party decide something without getting bogged down in the courts that are supposed to do just that..but somehow have turned into circus's instead. The issue is WHO is it that decides it..how are they selected..and is their decision far often than not one sided. What the system should allow for is a fair way for the arbitrator to be selected to insure they are neutral and not taking sides with anyone upfront.

I don't know how comcast or any other company does it..but that should be the point of all this IMHO..and not fighting against a system that can work for everyone if properly administered.
--
The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic!
karlmarx

join:2006-09-18
Nashua, NH
·Fairpoint Communic..

Re: Personally..

How can you possible use the phrase 'not taking sides' when the aribitrator is paid for by the megacorps. Look at it this way, if any company found AGAINST a megacorp, they would lose their contract. Ergo, the arbitrators will ALWAYS side with the megacorp, because the megacorp pays their bill!
--
The happiest countries are the most secular. The struggle AGAINST corporations is the struggle FOR humanity!
druber

join:2000-04-11
Marlborough, MA

Re: Personally..

sheesh, that's exactly what he said! he was saying that arbitration is not fundamentally bad, it's how the company has it done.
moonpuppy

join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL


edit:
January 30th, @12:59PM

Re: Personally..

said by druber See Profile :

sheesh, that's exactly what he said! he was saying that arbitration is not fundamentally bad, it's how the company has it done.
And that is the problem. Arbitration has become nothing more than a legal way of buying off the judge.

If Comcast hired an arbitration company and found a majority of the cases against them, you would see that company losing the contract and Comcast can shop around for a judge who will know which hand feeds it.

nipseyrussel
Nipsey Russell, yo

join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA

said by Rick See Profile :

a great way to fight back against an out of control legal system that awards people 20 million bucks for a spilled cup of coffee.
a) i'm sick of hearing about this. first of all the award was under a million dollars (and actually ended up in a secret settlement). secondly, this was not about spilling coffee, this was about mcdonalds knowingly heating coffee to unsafe temperatures despite the fact that they knew that people were being harmed by it and that many places are able to sell perfectly acceptable coffee at much lower temperatures.

b) why the hell do i have to input the "Date When You Received the Welcome Kit or the 2007 Arbitration Notice" in order to opt out????? i'm sure they put this there as a barrier to actually going through with this.

IT Guy
Your God Smells Funny

join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
·Comcast

Re: Personally..

b) why the hell do i have to input the "Date When You Received the Welcome Kit or the 2007 Arbitration Notice" in order to opt out????? i'm sure they put this there as a barrier to actually going through with this.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Who cares when we received the notice? The fact that IT WAS RECEIVED should be enough.
--
My time is a piece of wax, falling on a termite, that's choking on a splinter. --Beck

nipseyrussel
Nipsey Russell, yo

join:2002-02-22
Philadelphia, PA

Re: Personally..

does anyone know if not knowing this or putting the wrong date in causes a problem with this? i'll try this later when i can find my bill (need my account number - but have no idea if/when the notice was sent)

IT Guy
Your God Smells Funny

join:2004-07-29
Las Cruces, NM
·Comcast

Re: Personally..

Well, I logged on to my Comcast account and they do offer downloads of your previous bills. I think mine went back as far as March 07, I had transfered my account when I moved back in October and amazingly had some bills from my previous account (despite the fact that instead of transferring my account, they terminated it and I had to call them to reactivate it, that's twice in a row that Comcast failed me on the exact same issue.) However, the online bills didn't display any terms on it. But I did copy and paste my account number directly from my Comcast online account (for those of you having problems with the opt-out site saying your number is invalid, you may want to try it).

So... Long answer short. I really don't know if not entering the exact date you received the notice makes any difference, I just entered the date of the first bill I received after transferring my services. Maybe it's a legal loop-hole for them if you didn't enter the correct date.
--
My time is a piece of wax, falling on a termite, that's choking on a splinter. --Beck

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS

said by nipseyrussel See Profile :

does anyone know if not knowing this or putting the wrong date in causes a problem with this?
IIRC, the notice in your bill said that you had to reply within 30 days from when you received it. So might use it to disregard opt-out requests where the date is more than 30 days ago.

bubbaCom

@comcast.net

Frivolous lawsuits get thrown out as such. If you believe some case should not have been heard and damages not awarded go be a judge and a jury. Meanwhile stay away from my rights to sue those mega corporations that are lobbying to get the tort reform laws passed.

Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast

Yuck.

In my opinion and experience arbitration is something you should always avoid. How is it possible you can be forced into it without signing documents agreeing to it? How can someone say, "If you don't say you don't want this by X date you agree?" How do you not have the right to go to court because someone mailed you a letter and you didn't respond? It's as rediculous as me mailing the grocery store a letter saying if they don't respond I have the right to walk in and take all the Sour Cream & Herring I want. Then expecting to be able to walk in, grab the goods and walk out... when approached I just say you didn't respond to my letter these goodies are all mine!!!
--
kustomerservice.net

LakeRat

@comcast.net

Re: Yuck.

Because they have a document called "terms of service" or "subscribers terms" or something like that. When you have your service installed you sign what you think is a work order, that document says in part "I agree to be bound by the Comcast subscriber agreement(s)..."

I agree with someone else above, that the real issue is how the arbitrator is chosen....

Chuckles
Premium
join:2006-03-04
Saint Paul, MN
·Comcast

Re: Yuck.

The arbitration deal came out after people were aware of the terms of service. Yeah they probably also say these terms of service can change to whatever the heck we want at anytime. Can a term of service really be "You will give up your rights?"
--
kustomerservice.net
lordofwhee

join:2007-10-21
Everett, WA

Re: Yuck.

said by Chuckles See Profile :

Can a term of service really be "You will give up your rights?"
Not here in Washington state.

Best part is, this is now a president all other cases of this sort can reference.

RadioDoc
Sortofadog
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-05-11
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest

Simplistically, you're right as far as your analysis goes. However a company cannot force unreasonable terms and then duck out via arbitration.

Comcast cannot, say, specify that in order to continue getting their service under their teaser rates (and not therefore be subject to the full retail rates they charge) you have to kill every kitten you see. If you protest this term and then sue when the rates increase beyond what you contracted for, under their terms you would be forced to abide by the decision of an arbitrator of their choice...one who hates cats.

That is an admittedly absurd example but it does illustrate the point. Sadly, when the arbitrator is being paid by one side of the dispute, there is no impartiality.
wrad

join:2003-09-11
Fort Pierce, FL

Comcast Arbitration Form

Tried to submit the form unsuccessfully in the past.

Format for account number:

nnnnn nnnnnn-nn-n

Form will not accept the number without the space.
ricklg
Premium
join:2004-03-07
Laurel, MD
·Comcast


edit:
January 30th, @12:57PM

Re: Comcast Arbitration Form

Did you try adding the space? (Sorry, I couldn't resist)

Seriously, it took me a couple of times to get it to work. It wasn't completely obvious what they wanted (or what I was doing wrong), but after a bit of mind reading on my part I got it to work (I hope). At least I know the web page accepted my final try. Hard telling where it went from there
Jerkface

join:2005-06-05
Washington, NJ
·Comcast

Re: Comcast Arbitration Form

i requested my account number today from the online "help" correspondent. I asked her to verify what my account number was so i can fill out my arbitration form. She gave me all the correct numbers except for the last "0" on my account. I asked her to also double check this number to see if it was correct and she again clarified that it was. After that, i asked her to transfer me to a supervisor. She transferred me and it was only until i spoke to someone else that the person gave me my account number correctly. Go Customer Support!

wormey

@comcast.net
My account number is in the form nnnn nn nnn nnnnnnn.
Took it first time.
premio

join:2002-02-17
Antelope, CA

extra fees

Perhaps they should redirect the FUSF to an arbitration non-profit organization or governmental department.

Richard B
Fur It Up

join:2007-06-22
Portland, OR
·Comcast


edit:
January 30th, @09:20PM

Frivolous Lawsuits

To me perhaps the reason arbitration works against the customer is the case frivolous in the first place, for example, suing because one is a bandwidth hog. I think Comcast need to play hardball and one is screwing up the network then they need to send a tech to disconnect the cable and say goodbye. If Comcast starts dropping the problem child then there will be no need for arbitration.

Eddyisgreat
Premium
join:2003-01-21
Seattle, WA
clubs:
·Comcast

Re: Frivolous Lawsuits

said by Richard B See Profile :

To me perhaps the reason arbitration works against the customer is the case frivolous in the first place, for example, suing because one is a bandwidth hog. I think Comcast need to play hardball and one is screwing up the network then they need to send a tech to disconnect the cable and say goodbye. If Comcast starts dropping testes problem child then there will be no need for arbitration.
While I agree with you, thats where the problem lies. There is absolutely NO "definition" on excessive bandwidth usage. You cannot terminate users for just whistlin dixie. Yes, we all say hat 5,6,7 hundred gigs a month is rather excessive , but Comcast doesn't have this specifically defined in their TOS. Likewise, comcast WILL NOT define hard caps, because even individuals who use such service in a mannor they indtended (e-mail, browsing, e-mail, and maybe some e-mail) will be put off by the idea of "unlimited" internet with a nanny cap.

longstreet

join:2004-11-14

Re: Frivolous Lawsuits

said by Eddyisgreat See Profile :

said by Richard B See Profile :

To me perhaps the reason arbitration works against the customer is the case frivolous in the first place, for example, suing because one is a bandwidth hog. I think Comcast need to play hardball and one is screwing up the network then they need to send a tech to disconnect the cable and say goodbye. If Comcast starts dropping testes problem child then there will be no need for arbitration.
While I agree with you, thats where the problem lies. There is absolutely NO "definition" on excessive bandwidth usage. You cannot terminate users for just whistlin dixie. Yes, we all say hat 5,6,7 hundred gigs a month is rather excessive , but Comcast doesn't have this specifically defined in their TOS. Likewise, comcast WILL NOT define hard caps, because even individuals who use such service in a mannor they indtended (e-mail, browsing, e-mail, and maybe some e-mail) will be put off by the idea of "unlimited" internet with a nanny cap.
If you want unlimited use, then purchase a dedicated line. You get what you pay for.
Asmodeus1

join:2004-05-26
Spring Valley, CA
there really needs to be federal legislation mandating truth in advertising and the elimination of fine print. even better, i would call for plain english law as well.
trouble56

join:2005-01-25
American Canyon, CA

So what should the customer DO?

So what should someone who is using Comcast really do accept the terms or not? And what could Comcast do if someone signs the opt out document???

JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:

Read up, if you're not sure:

»Montgomery County MD Council recommends opting out

Jordan Fogal

@aol.com

Arbitration


Arbitration is an atrocity.
The housing debacle as predicted by us is now on the minds of everyone. However until the real causes are addressed the consumer confidence and distrust will not change.

They keep saying sub primes caused the foreclosures... We are not all foreclosures that were sub primes. Hundreds of thousands of us, maybe millions are arbitration and shoddy building casualties. We are victims of tort reform and big business knows it. They are to blame. Their unethical building practices and hiding their substandard construction behind arbitration clauses has broken this county. They flooded the market with over building and owned their own mortgage companies. They are corrupt and greedy and they are the cause of the housing crisis. I am not one of your Harvard economist but I wrote and predicted this long ago. Please read my testimony to the congressional hearing on the effects or arbitration on the consumer.

Just google my name for the rest of the story. The story no one will tell. The truth.

Jordan Fogal

fruhead

join:2002-01-29
Montclair, NJ

oh my...

Those evil scum! Damn Comcast for giving you the ability to opt out! Especially at Comcast's own expense! Curse them...

Forums » Opt Out Of Comcast Arbitration

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