 
AbBaZaBbA
Premium
join:2002-07-10
Long Beach, CA | what good is increase speeds with cablevision, if they cap you when you start to use them? | |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? Maybe I just don't understand the concept of ownership.
Maybe it's just a case of not permitting business "discrimination".
But, If CableVision currently "owns" those "properties", why would CableVision have to "sell / lease / rent" derivative rights to a competitor like Verizon?
Can CableVision offer such rights at some seriously irrational price?
Say, a trillion dollars per day?
Once we're into whether or not the price is exhorbitant or "fair", who ultimately gets to decide the price?
The seller, in most cases of capitalism that I'm familiar with.
If CableVision gets away with this, the value of owning such "rights" ought to jump / skyrocket, wouldn't ya' think?
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
 ·Cox HSI
| Re: If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? said by nekote  :Maybe I just don't understand the concept of ownership. Maybe it's just a case of not permitting business "discrimination". But, If CableVision currently "owns" those "properties", why would CableVision have to "sell / lease / rent" derivative rights to a competitor like Verizon? CableVision wouldn't have to sell to a competitor if they weren't already selling the product to others. That is, if CableVision was the only carrier for those products.
-tom
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
edit:
March 21st, @06:43PM
| Re: If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? Why would it make a difference, if CableVision is already selling to others?
Is CableVision already selling to other current / likely / potential *competitors*???
Does offering the products for what would seem to be an exhorbitant fee constitute "refusing to negotiate"?
What would a "fair" pirce be, if might very well eventually mean the end of a major sector of CableVision's businesses?
Is, potentially, committing business suicide a moral, business or legal requirement?
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
·Cox HSI
| Re: If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? said by nekote :Is, potentially, committing business suicide a moral, business or legal requirement? Does it conflict with one line of business? Yes. Is there a legal requirement for them to provide programming on an equivalent footing to that of any other potential buyer? Yes.
The telecoms are subject to similar rules in their lines of business, as well.
-tom
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"Some people have morals, standards and ideals about quality, but I'm an American: I couldn't care less." --Tony Pierce (paraphrased) | |
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nekote
join:2000-12-16
Hopkinton, MA
| Re: If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? Sorry to have sounded so hostile.
"There {is} a legal requirement for them to provide programming on an equivalent footing" - what name is that commonly known by / referred to as? A URL link would be great, if possible.
I've obviously missed adding that to my knowledge base!
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| | | | | | awesumpatrol
join:2003-06-13
Washington, DC | Re: If CableVision owns them, Verizon's tough luck? They're known as the Program Access Rules. | |
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d4a2n0k
@optonline.net | Actually, Directv, Dish, Time Warner and Comcast all carry the channels that Cablevision owns already and have been for years. | |
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ChoZ3nWon
join:2003-02-16
Lindenhurst, NY | BOOOM!!! Down goes Fraizer..... anyways cablevision never makes easy negotiations. see SNY,YES networks | |
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kamm
join:2001-02-14
Brooklyn, NY
edit:
March 21st, @11:57AM
| Well, the Dolans never been... ... nice players, that's for sure - see their actions on the planned West Side Stadium...  | |
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| rockymaivia
join:2004-10-05
Madison, WI | Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint Actually, i get Comcast Sports Net on my Dishnetwork plan... | |
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StudioTech
Virtual Channel or RF?
join:2001-10-10
Edison, NJ
| Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint said by rockymaivia :Actually, i get Comcast Sports Net on my Dishnetwork plan... You don't get the one based out of Philadelphia, though. You get the ones based out of Baltimore/DC, Chicago and the west coast. | |
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| | | rockymaivia
join:2004-10-05
Madison, WI
| Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint Yep that is true. I was going to state i got the Chicago one, but you just said comcast sports net as if it only covers philly and i was confused lol. That's sorta weird if there is a past precedent of them putting comcast sport nets from other cities on the dish i wonder why they would rule against just the philly one... | |
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| liquidnw
join:2005-06-05
Bronx, NY
| The loop hole in broadcast laws which allow comcast to keep Comcast Sports net off satellite doesn't apply to another cable company which fios is essentially. The loop hole is basically if a stations such as comcast sportsnet uses satellites to broadcast then they must negotiate with Directv and dish for carriage. IF they only use ground communication then they don't have to share with direct or or dish. This is also why cablevision isn't forced to negotiate with direct and dish for HD feeds of their rsns but you see these very same hd feeds on comcast and timewarner.
This is basically cv stalling. They will eventually be forced to negotiate in good faith or go to arbitration. | |
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| | dentman42
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH
 ·AT&T Midwest
| Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint said by liquidnw :The loop hole in broadcast laws which allow comcast to keep Comcast Sports net off satellite doesn't apply to another cable company which fios is essentially. If FIOS is basically another cable company, the same franchise laws that apply to the existing cable companies should apply to FIOS. I don't blame Comcast - if Verizon is trying to sidestep the franchise laws by which Comcast is bound in order to offer a competing service, I think Comcast should do anything they can to block Verizon. | |
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| | | liquidnw
join:2005-06-05
Bronx, NY
| Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint said by dentman42 :said by liquidnw :The loop hole in broadcast laws which allow comcast to keep Comcast Sports net off satellite doesn't apply to another cable company which fios is essentially. If FIOS is basically another cable company, the same franchise laws that apply to the existing cable companies should apply to FIOS. I don't blame Comcast - if Verizon is trying to sidestep the franchise laws by which Comcast is bound in order to offer a competing service, I think Comcast should do anything they can to block Verizon. Now do you really think it would matter if verizon just went gun ho and got every franchise agreement done. Comcast and cablevision aren't holding these channels back for any moral disagreement with what verizon is doing. Its all about them keeping there monoploy or stalling as long as possible.
But answer me this. Why is it ok for cable companies to side step franchise laws the telephone companies have to follow to offer telephone service and dsl in a franchise area? Its a little hypocritical for cable companies or anyone to cry bloody murder about verizon and att getting special treatment meanwhile VOIP is for the most part unregulated. You want equality? Then explain to me why a phone company is required to have 2 franchise agreements in a given area to offer voice,video,internet mean while a cable company only needs one? Phone companies already pay franchise fees so now they will pay double mean while cable companies only pay on video. Personally i don't see anything wrong with easing restrictions to eliminate monopolies. | |
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| | | | nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint This is pure BS. What phone franchise fees are you talking about exactly? Cable companies collect the same phone fees the phone company does (USF, E911, tax etc).
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| | | | | liquidnw
join:2005-06-05
Bronx, NY
| Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint said by nozzer :This is pure BS. What phone franchise fees are you talking about exactly? Cable companies collect the same phone fees the phone company does (USF, E911, tax etc). When was the last time you saw any of those fees on your cable bill? Take a look at your bill. If you have cablevision there is a little something called "TAXES and FEES" which are only assessed on VIDEO from cable companies not on telephone or data products. Do some researched before you call something BS. Cable companies don't pay franchise fees on phone and data products. | |
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| | | | | | nozzer
join:2004-06-25
Waltham, MA | Re: Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint Maybe cablevision dont. Comcast and RCN certainly do. | |
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ablack6596
join:2005-01-28
Scarsdale, NY | All the rules do apply, and they are following all those rules. They're just trying to get that changed. | |
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cdru
Go Colts
Premium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
 ·Verizon FIOS
| It depends on how it gets transmitted. Comcast gets around the rules by keeping everying on fiber. I beleive the rule is that if the signal is transmitted through the air and another provider could pick up the signal there, then all providers get a chance to "subscribe" to the feed. If Cablevision provides those feeds "OTA", then Verizon would have a fair right to them.
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"What gives them the right to come in and do this?" she said. - Lady complaining that she was getting FIOS in her backyard. | |
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| IBraineater
join:2003-12-13
Clifton, NJ | The only reason why Verizon is complaining is because they're not getting thier cable tax. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY | har-de-har-har This is rich, Verizon bitching about cable trying to freeze them out when Verizon for years has been in the courts trying to prevent anyone from competing with them. | |
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| | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: har-de-har-har said by DaveNJ :said by Transmaster :This is rich, Verizon bitching about cable trying to freeze them out when Verizon for years has been in the courts trying to prevent anyone from competing with them. I know this morning there was a really lame commerical, about "How cable doesnt want competion". So then i think, hmmm. Covad dsl, and other competitors, and how Verizon does all it can to get them shut down. Its quite funny how Verizon is playing victim. Hey Verizon, "Pot meet Kettle."
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| | | lesopp
join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL | Re: har-de-har-har Gotta love that karma thing! | |
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Phattieg
join:2001-04-29
Jacksonville, FL
 ·Verizon Wireless B..
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| Re: har-de-har-har You know, it all comes down to this. If you're going to cut cable lines while installing your FIOS, and if you're going to bring us major headaches with your requests for national franchise agreements, fine (cables side)... We'll just steal all the channels we have owned for years, and keep you limited. It's a give and take scenario going on for years since cable offered telephony and internet. The telco's fought with cable providers about the telephony regulations over their network for years, now Cable has adopted VoIP, and is walking away from all the assorted fees, coming out clean. The telco can't offer new services until they build the network and pay the agreement fees locally. Cable had to pay the way to build the network out and make it 2 way capable, while upholding their end of the franchise agreements they had with the local city. This has took many years, and only now does the phone company wanna try, and they want it "their way" 100%. Ha, this is great. | |
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juilinsandar
Texas Gooner
Premium
join:2000-07-17
San Benito, TX
clubs:  |  Who needs an RSN anyway?
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Crime does not pay ... as well as politics. - Alfred E. Newman | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY | Re: Who needs an RSN anyway? The fight will be for MSG and YES. These are the channels for the Rangers and Yankees.
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Jeffrey
Bye George, 1937-2008
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
clubs:
 ·magicjack.com
·Verizon FIOS
·Vonage
| said by juilinsandar :With ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, CSTV, NFL Network, NBA TV, FOX, CBS, ABC and NBC, who needs an RSN? If, like msyelf, you live in NY and want to watch the Yankees or Mets, you need RSNs. Yes!, and now Sportsnet NY for the Mets, formally on MSG. | |
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JSRoman
Premium
join:2005-03-10
Callahan, FL
| No content for you! Verizon doesn't have the customer base to demand CV negotiate with them. Kind of which came 1st, the chicken or the egg? CV will drag this out as long as they can, like they did with YES network. Verizon has somewhat of a relationship with Directv so maybe they can work something out with News Corp. to carry some of their sports programming.
One problem for VZ if they pay up the nose for sports programming it might slow their rollout due to higher cost and might also result in higher price points for video packages. | |
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| Re: No content for you! Cablevision has to negotiate... They are using their monopoly to stifle competition and it isn't right. This is not the first time they have done it.
Who cares if FIOS isn't a huge player yet... if I was a shareholder in Cablevision stock, I would demand that the company make available the channels to as many eyes as possible to help improve advertising revenue.
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| Re: No content for you! said by Jmartz :Cablevision has to negotiate... They are using their monopoly to stifle competition and it isn't right. This is not the first time they have done it. That's what will make this so fun to watch. I hope CV plays as dirty as VZ has in the past with their various "partners".
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity | |
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| Re: No content for you! said by sporkme :said by Jmartz :Cablevision has to negotiate... They are using their monopoly to stifle competition and it isn't right. This is not the first time they have done it. That's what will make this so fun to watch. I hope CV plays as dirty as VZ has in the past with their various "partners". I'm not saying Verizon is innocent either... however, from a customer perspective... Cablevision has done more to me than Verizon has... I understand that some businesses have to do things a certain way... and if Verizon was playing hardball... so be it... the stuff they have done has not "screwed" me over like the stuff Cablevision always does.
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | well Verizon could in the interum just setup a place with a CATV hookup, an OC-48 and a Slingbox......... course they would soo get sued.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY
edit:
March 21st, @01:49PM
| Nobody finds this wrong? Cablevision should be able to deny verizon advertising for a competing service on a channel that cablevision owns and operates and broadcasts themselves.
verizon is complaining about underhandedness but is doing underhanded things too . | |
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
edit:
March 21st, @02:18PM
| Re: Nobody finds this wrong? said by majortom1981 :Cablevision should be able to deny verizon advertising for a competing service on a channel that cablevision owns and operates and broadcasts themselves. verizon is complaining about underhandedness but is doing underhanded things too . No, they shouldn't. It's anti-competitive to do that. Cablevision should take the money and use it to make service better... even if it's competition. Using your logic, Cablevision shouldn't be selling advertising for CNN on FOX News Channel, or advertising for FOX News Channel on MSNBC... which they do all the time... so why should they be any different? If they are going to solicit and run advertising for competing networks on other networks during local advertising time... Cablevision should let competing services advertise on their channels. -- but no... the Cablevision double standard "We can do it to you, but you can't do it to us or we'll cry about it" comes back again.
They are in denial. There's no other reason for it. They are scared that Verizon is going to hurt them. | |
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EugeneE
join:2004-02-14
Dar al-Harb | haha Rocky...haha | |
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Rob A
Jets 19 - Steelers 16
Premium
join:2005-01-17
Pompton Plains, NJ | Keep it up Keep it up Verizon, cablevision knows they stand no chance against fios. | |
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majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY
| I am not talking about other networks Basically what is going on is verizon is getting upset that cabelvision wont let them advertise on channels like news12.
Channels like news 12 were setup by cabelvision,owned by cablevision, shot in a cablevision studio.
Channels like that. If cablevision owns those channels they should be able to not let verizon advertise on them if they want.
Thats like saying verizon must let cablevision slap advertisements on verizons trucks. | |
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Pathfinder
Dazed Confused
Premium
join:2000-03-26
Mount Vernon, NY
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: I am not talking about other networks Wrong. Basically what is happening is that Verizon wants to negotiate to carry cahnnels like Sportschannel and MSG ontheir FIOS TV and Cablevision is refusing to negotiate.
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| said by majortom1981 :Basically what is going on is verizon is getting upset that cabelvision wont let them advertise on channels like news12. Channels like news 12 were setup by cabelvision,owned by cablevision, shot in a cablevision studio. Channels like that. If cablevision owns those channels they should be able to not let verizon advertise on them if they want. Thats like saying verizon must let cablevision slap advertisements on verizons trucks. Then Cablevision shouldn't let FOX News Channel advertise on CNN... which they do. But that is NOT the issue here. The issue here is that Verizon is trying to negotiate a deal with Cablevision to carry MSG and FOX Sports New York. Cablevision is clearly attempting to block competition by with-holding programming from competitors. That is the issue here... If Microsoft can be sued for bundling Internet Explorer with a damn operating system... It's a very good chance that Cablevision will lose this battle if Verizon has everything documented and in writing... remember, this is the same company that was stupid enough to send out emails to customers letting them know that SNY was being carried only to not carry it... There are only so many stupid things you can do before you get in trouble.
Cablevision should just negotiate and let FIOS carry MSG/FSNY. If Cablevision is certain that FIOS wont be a big problem (As they have stated) then it shouldn't be a big deal is FSNY and MSG are on FIOS right?
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Tzale
Ron Paul - No Bailout Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NJ, USA | CV sucks Let's just hope Verizon wins. Anyone who lives in a CV serviced area knows how shitty TV is and how expensive.
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majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY
| Lol a lot of trolls around here I live in a cablevision serviced area and my cablevision service is a lot better then the verizon service that I used to have.
My 15/2 service goes at full speed and i have never been capped.
Just because you don't like cablevision and have blamed everything on them doesn't mean everybody else does too. | |
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| StEaLtHBuNnY
join:2002-10-12
Bergenfield, NJ | Re: Lol a lot of trolls around here maybe start using ur upload then for periods of time | |
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| | majortom1981
join:2004-08-26
Lindenhurst, NY
| Re: Lol a lot of trolls around here I love how people also think that I havent been capped automatically means that I don'tuse my upload.
I am not stupid enough to do illegal things. I know I will get a whole lot of I dont do illegal things replies but ike you would be stupid enough to admit it on a message board.
Eventually verizon will start cappig or throttling too watch. people will flock to fios and it will quickly get over subscribed just like cablevision is right now. | |
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| | | The Patriot
join:2006-03-17
Syosset, NY
| Re: Lol a lot of trolls around here you are clueless..you don't have to be doing anything illegal..just uploading a large file to your jobs FTP site that you need for work...now that's illegal..get a clue before you post or start a topic..and no...verizon will not cap because Verizons network will be able to handle the capacity.
Verizons network is being built from the ground up. New Fiber switches and routers and I am sure they will ensure they have enough bandwidth available for an area. Cable is slow to upgrade, they just keep bringing on customers and adding services that utilize bandwidth without upgrading...as long as they generate more revenue...until their is a problem and drag their heels on upgrading....They will have to change the way they have been doing things for the last 30 years. Brooklyn/Bronx and most of Jersey were always on the top of our outage boards because they rolled out service without upgrading the devices and backbone, as they took new areas from previous providers. They just used existing equipment and lines. | |
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bhorow
join:2004-05-17
Forest Hills, NY
| Negotiating power Lets explain this all about negotiating power. Verizon has a huge install base potentially. Cablevision should put its networks on Verizon, and will eventually do so. Remember that hockey isn't that big, so that leaves MSG. Verizon has no original content exclusive to them, while Cablevision has the right to negotiate the price. It is unclear whether they have the right to deny, in order to remain competitive.
Eventually the courts will intervene on Verizon's behalf.
As they did with Time Warner Cable. Verizon is at a huge disadvantage with its content. Which is why cable is going to leverage its content. Because Comcast and Time Warner own a lot of content already. They can be tougher in there negotiations. If you notice Cable providers are often content providers, and the stronger the content. The better positioned they are. Notice Charter, and Cox are the weaker of the cable companies, because they lack content.
My advice to Verizon is to purchase the Scripps Networks. Carriage agreements and speed will not help Verizon short term. You can Carry a hundred channels but if you miss the sports and have no content of your own your in trouble. | |
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| techman01
join:2001-05-06
Bohemia, NY
| Re: Negotiating power Verizon has almost all sports networks throughout the Country except for Cablevisions.
Because Cablevision is a cable company, they are required by LAW to negotiate agreement with Verizon since Verizon is also a cable company. If they can't agree, Verizon or Cablevision can ask for arbitration.
Tech | |
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| | bhorow
join:2004-05-17
Forest Hills, NY | Re: Negotiating power Incorrect. Verizon is not a cable company. Verizon is a phone company. Whether the rules apply are questionable. | |
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mehcompetition
@verizon.net
| Right now there is no competition. Well its just my opinion.But as of 2006 there is really no significant competition of verizon in cablevision service area.FIOS is being deployed in a few "select markets" and cablevision covers a whole area of millions.I dont think the deployment of fiber wont be mass enough for cablevision to worry about it untill 2010 at least or even later. | |
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| techman01
join:2001-05-06
Bohemia, NY | Re: Right now there is no competition. Also Verizon is seeking francishes in 100 NY Communities, and also will announce an agreement with SNY shortly, and is currently negotiating with YES Network, which YES will be wrapped up soon.
Tech | |
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| said by mehcompetition :
Well its just my opinion.But as of 2006 there is really no significant competition of verizon in cablevision service area.FIOS is being deployed in a few "select markets" and cablevision covers a whole area of millions.I dont think the deployment of fiber wont be mass enough for cablevision to worry about it untill 2010 at least or even later.
FIOS internet is available in many areas right now that are currently NOT listed on their website. Verizon is taking Bergen County by storm... silently deploying communities and once franchises are approved... Cablevision is going to get hit hard. I think that's Verizon's plan... just go around quietly, start turning on FIOS to many, many towns... Cablevision will underestimate them... and then BAM, overnight Verizon will end up with 15 franchises in Bergen County and take Cablevision by surprise.
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imtim83
You All Deserve The Economic Meltdown
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
| Re: Right now there is no competition. said by Jmartz :said by mehcompetition :
Well its just my opinion.But as of 2006 there is really no significant competition of verizon in cablevision service area.FIOS is being deployed in a few "select markets" and cablevision covers a whole area of millions.I dont think the deployment of fiber wont be mass enough for cablevision to worry about it untill 2010 at least or even later.
FIOS internet is available in many areas right now that are currently NOT listed on their website. Verizon is taking Bergen County by storm... silently deploying communities and once franchises are approved... Cablevision is going to get hit hard. I think that's Verizon's plan... just go around quietly, start turning on FIOS to many, many towns... Cablevision will underestimate them... and then BAM, overnight Verizon will end up with 15 franchises in Bergen County and take Cablevision by surprise. OOL, Cablevision, my baby has 50/50 and 100/100 tiers. I know you can't get them yet but this is their secret weapon! I know everyone knows about it by now and even Verizon I bet does of course. I bet they don't think my baby can do it!
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Jmartz
join:2000-07-20
Tenafly, NJ
| Re: Right now there is no competition. 50/50 will be expensive. No doubt about it. If Verizon wanted to, it could offer similar service and I am sure they will once the competition really heats up... just as Cablevision has started upping their speeds... Verizon will do the same. Prices will also start to come down.
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Optimum Online Vs. Fios
Verizon may not get anywhere with FCC complaint
