 firewire9999
join:2004-07-11
Livonia, MI | Orlando Backs Off Free Wi-Fi What a waste of money per month.
Ya I am sure that somebody is just going to step up and foot the bill for them for free.
Oh FIRST Post.......................... | |
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Primis1
join:2005-06-13
Coldwater, MI
| Of Course It's Probably Failing I'm sure probably what Orlando did is rolled out the service, didn't market it or make it well-known, and then did nothing to foster an environment where people would actually use it.
So yeah, in that light of course it probably didn't get used. Nobody likely knew about it, and those that did had no use for it because they didn't create an environment where it could thrive.
You don't just roll out free wifi -- you have to have a plan and a reason. These stupid cities don't get that... | |
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 | Goldman
join:2002-06-21
Maumelle, AR
| Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing I can't believe that the city of Orlando can't work with Disney and other local businesses to establish wi-fi access in places where there is a need. They might want to actually find out if there is a need first.
These cities need to quit wasting taxpayers dollars on unnecessary Wi-Fi. | |
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citywideorhotspot
@verizon.n
| Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing So ALL of orlando had it, from the boondocks to the city limits eh?
What would have been a better idea was to promote it in HOT SPOTS where people could go and use the service rather than complete 100% coverage. In ways that promote tourism and commerce, ya'd think that would have been the impetus to spur economic development, but no.. my guess is they wanted this initiative to fail in the public eye so others wouldn't try it,
If its no good for Orlando, its no good for your town, as if so goes Orlando, FL, so goes the country... but everyone turned their back on that motto way back in 2000 (Approximately Novemberish)  | |
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| | | gbrown759
join:2003-05-03
Ridgeland, MS
| Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing said by citywideorhotspot:
So ALL of orlando had it, from the boondocks to the city limits eh?
I thought the article clearly said that it was available only in the downtown area.
I could see $1,800/mo. if it was city-wide, but that seems a little pricey for just a few blocks. | |
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| | | | ossito16
join:2004-07-31
Whiting, IN | Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing I agree. I would hardly consider Orlando having a downtown. that is far from being the hub of major business. | |
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| | | OMNISPRING
join:2004-04-06
Orlando, FL
| The Orlando project was only a Hot Spot around Lake Eola Park.
they were not providing service to the local residents or businesses. For a city to offer bandwidth at a city park, that's ok. But for a city to get into the internet business for profit.....that's not ok. If it's not stopped, then what will the next business be that they get's into???? Be concerned, you could end up in the unemployment line if they compete in whatever business you earn a living at. When they are funded with your tax dollars, then they have an unfair advantage in whatever business they decide to get into.
Food for thought. Look how well run the public schools are? | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| said by Goldman  :I can't believe that the city of Orlando can't work with Disney and other local businesses to establish wi-fi access in places where there is a need. They might want to actually find out if there is a need first. No theme park in their right mind would back this. The theme parks want people in their parks spending money, not wasting time outside of the theme park on the Internet and not spending money in their parks.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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| | | bradleym
join:2002-08-05
Dunfermline, IL | Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing Believe it or not, Disney has their own wi-fi, and it's $9.95/day for a measly 128k connection. I would gladly have driven downtown to work for a couple of hours during my last trip had I know about their free access. | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by pnh102 :said by Goldman :I can't believe that the city of Orlando can't work with Disney and other local businesses to establish wi-fi access in places where there is a need. They might want to actually find out if there is a need first. No theme park in their right mind would back this. The theme parks want people in their parks spending money, not wasting time outside of the theme park on the Internet and not spending money in their parks. Not really. Theme parks make their money on Food, Admission and merchandise.
Once they got you in to the park they don't care if you stare at the water fountains. They know you are going to eat and you might buy a t-shirt.
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"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."-Winston Churchill | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: Of Course It's Probably Failing said by TechieZero :Once they got you in to the park they don't care if you stare at the water fountains. They know you are going to eat and you might buy a t-shirt. But who is going to bring a laptop into a theme park? I am sure the park wouldn't care if you did bring one in and paid admission and such, but realistically I doubt anyone would do that.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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| King75
King Of All And Nothing
Premium
join:2004-07-31
Stevensville, MD
clubs: | Yeah defiantly not wide known. I have a number of friends at UCF that use the campus's WiFi and would have used it downtown if they had known about it. | |
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justncredible
@rr.com
| Such a stupid idea, and primus wants to waste more tax dollars by buying more advertising. That money could have gotten new textbooks. Where is the total cost they spent for the entire network and the salaries paid for the city workers to monitor it, what about the initial study cost. What a huge waste of money. I will guess millions dumped into another worthless socialist program that benefitted no one. | |
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| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| ahh but disney isnt just a theme park its a whole resort, i mean going there to sit on a laptop isnt any worse then someone wasting time on a golf course and not space mountain.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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lordfly
join:2000-10-12
Homestead, FL | Why so costly? I was aware of the free wireless in Orlando, but actually had no reason to go to downtown to use it.
But I am still wondering why it would cost $1800 per month. | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| That's quite a bit of money $1800 a month could have bought quite a few schoolbooks, paid for part of the salary of a full time police officer or firefighter, fixed up a few potholes, or fulfill some other really useful government function. Too bad the taxpayers of Orlando won't be getting this money back after having it so irresponsibly wasted by the city.
The funny part is there is another thread which discusses "push polling" used by cable and phone companies to derail plans for municipally-provided Internet service. I always wondered why these companies have to resort to such sleazy tactics when there are plenty of real life examples, such as this story, as to why taxpayer money shouldn't be used for this sort of thing.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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ib50MbSoon
Formerly TwoKDialup
Premium
join:2002-06-07
Coloma, MI | Maybe... it's because in the Orlando area there are about a bazillion other things to do besides playing with a laptop. Sheeeeesh! | |
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Orwell1984
@fdn.com
| Wish I had known I live and work in the Orlando area. I had never heard of this service and I tend to keep up with these things. This would have been very useful to me. If I didn't know about it I can't help wondering how well it was announced.As for the cost that $1800 per month is less than 1 cent per month divided by our current population. Wow what a huge friggin waste almost a whole penny.:o | |
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B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28
| The Money is NOTHING Some of you folks are awfully short-sighted.
While $1,800 does seem quite high, it's barely the loaded cost of A SINGLE SALARIED EMPLOYEE of any kind.
For providing broadband to an entire city, that cost is RIDICULOUSLY cheap. Only fools would (a) fail to properly advise citizens of the availability and then (b) pull the plug in so miserly a fashion.
For the cost of a single cafeteria employee or sign painter...
-- B
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In a realm outside causality and function | |
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| bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: The Money is NOTHING said by B :Only fools would (a) fail to properly advise citizens of the availability and then (b) pull the plug in so miserly a fashion. Indeed... I'm betting that it was poor communication on the part of the organizers that caused so few people to use the system. If people don't know its there or WHAT it is, they aren't going to use it...
Also, this IS NOT a good example to use to show that municipal networks should not be built...
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Its back... From the dead.
Since the dawn of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. -CM Burns | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
1 edit | Re: The Money is NOTHING said by bmn :Also, this IS NOT a good example to use to show that municipal networks should not be built... Sure it is. The network failed. And not only did it fail, but the City of Orlando owes its taxpayers an explanation as to why such a network was built in the first place without the public knowing about it. Heck, how the heck is a wireless network which doesn't charge for access supposed to pay for itself anyway?
The taxpayers are now out of extra money that could have been used for other services. Taxpayers would not have become involuntary investors into this network had a private company tried it out, and likewise they would not be out extra money had such a venture failed.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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| | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: The Money is NOTHING said by pnh102 :said by bmn :Also, this IS NOT a good example to use to show that municipal networks should not be built... Sure it is. The network failed. Well, considering this isn't a municipal broadband network, this instance isn't comparable to a project like LUS in Lafayette, LA or some other city.
Sorry...
Of course, if I used your "logic," we could say that hotspots in general shouldn't be attempted because this one instance failed.
And not only did it fail, but the City of Orlando owes its taxpayers an explanation as to why such a network was built in the first place without the public knowing about it. And you know this how ?
Heck, how the heck is a wireless network which doesn't charge for access supposed to pay for itself anyway? If you had read the article, you would have seen that this was a trial. Without knowing the FACTS (which haven't been released) about any plans to recoup the costs after the trial was over (making people pay for a trial wouldn't have been very wise), the question is purely "academic."
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Its back... From the dead.
Since the dawn of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. -CM Burns | |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| Re: The Money is NOTHING said by bmn :Well, considering this isn't a municipal broadband network, this instance isn't comparable to a project like LUS in Lafayette, LA or some other city. How is it not a municipal broadband network? Last I checked, Orlando is a municipality and wifi is a form of broadband, ergo it's a municipal broadband network.
said by bmn :Of course, if I used your "logic," we could say that hotspots in general shouldn't be attempted because this one instance failed. Huh? There are plenty of private companies which run wireless hotspots without reaching out into taxpayer pockets. Some succeed, some fail, but either way the only people who are at risk are those who voluntarily chose to invest in the companies running the hotspots.
said by bmn :And you know this how ? Umm... the article summary makes that very clear. The city of Orlando paid for the network and only 27 people used it.
said by bmn :If you had read the article, you would have seen that this was a trial. Without knowing the FACTS (which haven't been released) You're accusing me of not knowing the facts after reading the story here and then you now admit you don't know them yourself? Here's a simple lesson in business:
Profit = Sales - Overhead
If Sales is 0, and overhead is greater than zero, then you are recouping nothing. The fact remains that this municipal broadband network was nothing but a burden to the taxpayers of Orlando and the money could have been better spent on other things. Of course, when the city has a steady stream of revenue from its taxpayers, its very easy for it to spend money on things which are of no use to anyone, such as this municipal broadband network.
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Hey Fast Eddie... you're next! | |
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| | | | | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| Re: The Money is NOTHING said by pnh102 :said by bmn :Well, considering this isn't a municipal broadband network, this instance isn't comparable to a project like LUS in Lafayette, LA or some other city. How is it not a municipal broadband network? Last I checked, Orlando is a municipality and wifi is a form of broadband, ergo it's a municipal broadband network. Actually, its a hotspot run by the city, not a broadband network in the strictest sense of the term...
Again, from a technical standpoint, this is not comparable to other muni projects (FTTH, etc.) where SUBSCRIBERS PAY to access the network (something that may have happened in this case after the TRIAL period ended).
said by bmn :And you know this how ? Umm... the article summary makes that very clear. The city of Orlando paid for the network and only 27 people used it.
Business lesson: Poor adoption is not always the fault of people not knowing about it...
said by bmn :If you had read the article, you would have seen that this was a trial. Without knowing the FACTS (which haven't been released) You're accusing me of not knowing the facts after reading the story here and then you now admit you don't know them yourself? Here's a simple lesson in business:
I, at least, acknowledge the limits of my knowledge... I stated what is known and what isn't while you've made statements and claims on facts and evidence that aren't available...
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Its back... From the dead.
Since the dawn of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. -CM Burns | |
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23153443
join:2001-01-13
Westminster, MD
| This was in a limited area of downtown Orlando, and an (admittedly lame) attempt to draw people there instead of the cash vacuum to the southwest. I seriously doubt that many people who go to "Orlando" actually spend much of their time in the city and especially downtown. More likely they are in Lake Buena Vista (Disney) and Kissimmee to the SW and Orlando only sees them at the airport.
$1800 a month is pretty cheap for a commercial setup. Anyone know what that paid for (and isn't guessing)? | |
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TechieZero
Tools Are Using Me
Premium
join:2002-01-25
Wesley Chapel, FL |  City of Orlando had a Wi-Fi service?
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| The Folly Of Government Subsidies This is a fine example of the folly of government subsidies where expenditures are greatly higher than the number of beneficiaries. This also goes for sports stadiums and mass transit projects.
I also disgusted with the broadband freeloaders want the taxpayers to pay for their Internet connection. If you want broadband get a job. If you can afford the cost of the computer, you are reading this message then you can afford to pay for your own broadband connection | |
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Topmounter
Sent By Grocery Clerks
join:2001-02-20
Evergreen, CO | Re: The Folly Of Government Subsidies
LAPTOPS FOR THE HOMELESS!!!!!!!
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Orwell1984
@fdn.com
| Re: The Folly Of Government Subsidies Not a lot of homeless at Lake Eola Park. Mostly upscale professional types. I would gladly have paid a small per use charge for access. Part of the problem that limited the use of this might be related to the difficulty of seeing a laptop display outdoors in Fl.Why are some people here so upset about the LESS THAN 1 CENT PER TAXPAYER cost? Was it your money? I pay taxes here and I don't mind that they at least tried.But I do have to admit it makes no sense to give away access for free.Really hard to break even that way. | |
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zemus
join:2001-01-13
Brooklyn, NY
| IT"S NOT THE ENTIRE CITY! first off it's downtown only, VERY SMALL area of that. so it's not $1800 a month for an entire city. But even for the few blocks radius it's super cheap. You need to have technicians manage all the hardware and the the thing up man. That costs cash for consultants. the maximum load was 200 people so that's only 9 dollars a person per month. That's still crazy cheap.... 1 single city block probably has about 200 people if not more (NYC). I WISH i can get broadband for $9 bucks a month, even if it is wireless. So before you people gasp at the high costs, just remember that when they implemented this the price tag was $9 dollars a person or 30 cents a day per person. | |
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richardpor
Fur it up
join:2003-04-19
Portland, OR
| Re: IT"S NOT THE ENTIRE CITY! Fist of all only 27 people a day use the service. That is lot of money spent on so few users. To use your own accounting method, it is not $9.00 a day more like $66.66 (1800 / 27) They can go to Starbucks instead of expect the TAX PAYERS to pay for teh jollies of 27 people
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| | vasta
join:2003-04-07
Orlando, FL | Re: IT"S NOT THE ENTIRE CITY! i can walk outside, down the road 2 miles and see downtown...didnt even know about this | |
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| | bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| You might want to check your math.
The cost works out to $2.22 per user per day...
And that's assuming that's 27 users per day every day. Of course its very likely that the number of users fluctuates day by day.
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Its back... From the dead.
Since the dawn of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. -CM Burns | |
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zemus
join:2001-01-13
Brooklyn, NY
| obviously you don't understand. Do you think when they implemented this they expected only 27 people to use it on average? of course not. The fact that so little people use it is the REASON they are removing it. on the flip side if they had maximum load it would be $9 bucks and there would be no problem. You dont do something expecting it to fail. when it does like this you remove it. However that does not change the fact that they expected it to be $9 a person. So your argument that it costs so much and they shouldn't have even tried in the first place is invalid. Also as a side note, if they tried to advertise thru commercials or other means like radio or even fliers, that will raise the cost of the capita, and it seems that is not worth it to the city. | |
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deadmeat
Premium
join:2003-03-21
Sonoma, CA | . I wonder why advertisers haven't jumped on it, just think of all the signs "Free Wireless hot spot brought to you by (insert company name)" I'm sure they would spend more than 1800 per month on just a downtown billboard. | |
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gimme5
join:2002-12-23
Kissimmee, FL
| I live near orlando and I'm in Orlando pretty much all the time and had no idea there was free wi-fi downtown either. Go figure...
Also, I don't think $1,800 is too much. If people knew about it, it would have been used a bit more than by 27 people. | |
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newerawisp
join:2005-06-16
New York, NY
| The cell phone service is now becoming erd generation in that it would make use of 3g Spectrum (2000MHz) up from 2G spectrums (1900MHz-1999MHz) and to make sure that 3G phone service is not compatible with 2G phone service the Providers of 3G will be using a GDSM system rather than GSM system used by the 2G cell Phone Service Providers. The shame of it all is that these cell phone (GSM service or GDSM service) could be enabled to surf the internet and the SPAMMERS as well as Hackers could be permanently put out of business.
I've discussed previously, in reply to another message, that the time has come to change the Internet Infrastructure so that it would have the following features:
1. The clients would not be required to process any data. The clients would be needed only to send commands to the
Servers. Hence these clients wouldn't have to be Personal Computers. These Clients could be cell Phones that can send text messages.
2. The servers would not have to send any documents or files to clients but would process all commands recieved from the clients. Thus to surf the internet you'd only need a cell phone that can send text messages.
3. The email services would record and display the telephone numbers from which an email is coming and if it is coming from a personal computer the email service would record and display the digital address of the personal Computer.
People have to demand the development of the new Internet Infrastructure by wriyting to the manufacturers of the cell phones. Unless they demand the development of such an nternet service the Phone manufacturers will take no action.
I've discussed this in my blogs at
»www.spaces.msn.com/members/wirelessbrowsers
»www.hackers10.blogspot.com
»www.newerawisp.blogspot.com
The cell phone manufacturers can reach me by emails at newerawisp@rediffmail.com/ | |
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Orwell1984
@res.rr | Re: Why do we need Wi-Fi Hot Spots That sounds exactly like a Mainframe/terminal system I used in the early 80s from a company called Tymeshare or something like that.Text only across phone lines. | |
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Zverina
join:2004-07-12
Brooklyn, NY | bringing wireless access to the coppertown, fl - the retirement state. it's not ambitions, it's plain stupid. | |
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Orwell1984
@res.rr
| Re: good job! A better definition of plain stupid might be speaking of that which you have no knowledge. Orlando is not much of a retirement area. Believe it or not most of us need to work.Most retirees live in less metropolitan areas where property values are not as high. | |
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feek
join:2002-01-23
Philadelphia, PA | Orlando is basically a shithole. The downtown area is very car-centric. I'm not surprised by this. | |
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Orwell1984
@res.rr
| Re: Orlando. Your comparing Orlando to what city? I have live in Baltimore, Washington D.C.,San Jose Ca. and spent time in about 4 or 5 dozen cities. Orlando might not be the greatest but there are much worse places by far.Orlando is actually fairly clean and safe for a city its size. | |
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ferdeenand
Premium
join:2001-08-20
Orlando, FL
clubs:
 ·Embarq
·Comcast
1 edit | I DO remember when this was all over the news. It was a couple of years back, but it was on ever news channel (even if only a short story), it was on CFN13 for a few days, and it was in the paper. After that, though, publicity of it dropped completely off. Had I ever had a reason to go sit downtown by the lake, I sure would have used it, but I did not. Now, go down to St. Cloud, and a big chunk of the city is wireless, and it's well marked. I believe their service will last for quite a while. | |
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anon29000
@216.22.x.x | Re: Wi-Fi Backhaul alone on this is probably at *least* half the $1800...
Anyone know what company was running this for the city?
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i386
Unix God
Premium
join:2004-07-10
Tucson, AZ | Be careful not to use a bogus hotspot. | |
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Bleah764
@res.rr | It seems silly to place a public hotspot around Lake Eola when the downtown library already offers free WiFi (and desks, and outlets, and books...) | |
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Orlando Backs Off Free Wi-Fi
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