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Overland Park, Google Fiber Logjam Resolved. Or Not.
by Karl Bode 07:29AM Tuesday Oct 15 2013
Updated with information suggesting Overland Park won't be getting Google Fiber anytime soon. Most cities have rather quickly buckled to Google's demands in order to get Google Fiber into their towns, even if those deals aren't particularly great for the communities themselves. Recently, Overland Park Kansas became the first city to hold up Google Fiber over indemnification and liability concerns.

Speculation was rife that the delay was courtesy of efforts by Time Warner Cable or some other incumbent (Sprint's headquarters is in Overland Park), but according to local radio outlet KMBZ, Overland Park's concerns appear to have been resolved and the city is poised to approve Google Fiber's entry into the market.

Update: Perhaps not. A user in our comment section below claims he was at the meeting this week and states (though I've been unable to confirm this with Google Fiber yet) that Google may have put Overland Park on hold after the trouble they faced:
quote:
Seems the Overland Park Council was a day late and a dollar short. After they agreed to the new agreement their lawyers worked on - Google Said no thanks - and asked for an "Indefinite Continuation" with the understanding they could re-present their agreement at any time in the future. The Google Rep gave no indication of when that might be - if ever.

Clearly Google was saying to Overland Park and other cities - if you make this process too difficult for us - we will pick up our ball and go play somewhere else.

The Overland Park City council had looks of shock and horror on their faces when the Google Rep broke the news. Then in an act of total desperation the OP city council quickly and awkwardly proposed and passed a resolution "expressing the enthusiasm Overland Park has for Google Fiber" it was really a pathetic act by a council that messed this up so horribly last month.

It is safe to say if you had aspirations to be on the City council or to be the Mayor of Overland Park - the next elections are going to be a good time to run. Everyone on the council needs to go.
Update 2: Someone has posted the audio minutes from the Overland Park meeting, confirming that Google has requested an "indefinite continuance," and now has no timeline for when or if they'll offer Google Fiber in Overland Park.

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mob
On the next level..
Premium
join:2000-10-07

1 recommendation

Holy crap...

Google has been on a real tear lately. All these FTTPR build out announcements (fiber to the press release) must really be straining their network.
Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus

Re: Holy crap...

Straining their network staff maybe, but not their network. In a reading from 4 years ago, it had a list of the top 10 networks. Level 3 was #1 about 20% and Google was #2 around 5%. It didn't actually say #3 and #4 names, but it did have the numbers, which were around 2% and 1%.

It kind of gives you an idea how small Verizon, AT&T, TWC, Comcast, all really are. Mind you, last mile is expensive and vast, so these ISPs have huge assets, but not a whole lot of backbone.

A trace route through Level 3's or Google's networks makes the other "Tier 1s" almost look like Tier 2s. Lots of indirect routes, congestion, and latency for the others.

mob
On the next level..
Premium
join:2000-10-07
Reviews:
·SureWest Internet

Re: Holy crap...

said by Bengie25:

Straining their network staff maybe, but not their network. In a reading from 4 years ago, it had a list of the top 10 networks. Level 3 was #1 about 20% and Google was #2 around 5%. It didn't actually say #3 and #4 names, but it did have the numbers, which were around 2% and 1%.

It kind of gives you an idea how small Verizon, AT&T, TWC, Comcast, all really are. Mind you, last mile is expensive and vast, so these ISPs have huge assets, but not a whole lot of backbone.

A trace route through Level 3's or Google's networks makes the other "Tier 1s" almost look like Tier 2s. Lots of indirect routes, congestion, and latency for the others.

»bit.ly/uf7b9A
--
Ich habe kein Mitleid - Me
You're a daisy if you do. - Doc Holliday
And as always, have nice day.
Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Re: Holy crap...

My meter wasn't working correctly. It reads a lot more funny now

Rob in OP

@everestkc.net

No Soup for Overland Park

Seems the Overland Park Council was a day late and a dollar short. After they agreed to the new agreement their lawyers worked on - Google Said no thanks - and asked for an "Indefinite Continuation" with the understanding they could re-present their agreement at any time in the future. The Google Rep gave no indication of when that might be - if ever.

Clearly Google was saying to Overland Park and other cities - if you make this process too difficult for us - we will pick up our ball and go play somewhere else.

The Overland Park City council had looks of shock and horror on their faces when the Google Rep broke the news. Then in an act of total desperation the OP city council quickly and awkwardly proposed and passed a resolution "expressing the enthusiasm Overland Park has for Google Fiber" it was really a pathetic act by a council that messed this up so horribly last month.

It is safe to say if you had aspirations to be on the City council or to be the Mayor of Overland Park - the next elections are going to be a good time to run. Everyone on the council needs to go.
Bengie25

join:2010-04-22
Wisconsin Rapids, WI
Reviews:
·Solarus

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

Time is valuable and it seems like everyone wants Google Fiber. It's a competition.

I would prefer a more municipal approach to fiber infrastructure, but how many Provo Utah mistakes do we want. It takes good planning to design a good network and the lowest bidder is not always the best method.

Maybe Google Fiber could start a municipal fiber consulting service. Help design the networks, cover key issues, and help get them in contact with reputable companies.

As much as I like Google, too much of a good thing is bad, especially when we have issues like the NSA and Google being a single honeypot of a ton of user data.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

Everyone may want it but only the few thousand people that can get it now will most likely be the only ones to get it. Outside of the KC areas and Provo does Google have any actual network being built or are they still all under "design" and just agreements.
CraigBee

join:2004-07-23
Overland Park, KS
The City Council just turned Overland Park into the digital ghetto of the silicon prairie. They should be ashamed.

Craig
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

Should they be? The terms they were handed were crap, leaving the city liable for things Google does. Their refusal to accept those terms proved they had a backbone and were not simply going to cave to the demands of a giant corporation. The fact that Google backed out is Google's fault. The city didn't make them do that, Google is just trying to punish those that don't play the game their way and is acting like an immature child.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

Very true. But remember this is Google. So it is okay that they take a ride on the Cities and anyone else's dime/pocket. If this was any other ISP the scale would tip the other way.

David
hours are m-th 1130-10p central
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:98
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

said by TBBroadband:

Very true. But remember this is Google. So it is okay that they take a ride on the Cities and anyone else's dime/pocket. If this was any other ISP the scale would tip the other way.

As sad as that is, there is some truth to that...

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

said by David:

As sad as that is, there is some truth to that...

David, no offense personally but considering where you work it seems your throwing rocks from a glass house. ATT is one of the least credible companies I know of.

David
hours are m-th 1130-10p central
Premium,VIP
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
kudos:98
Reviews:
·DIRECTV
·AT&T Midwest
·magicjack.com
·Google Voice

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

said by DataRiker:

said by David:

As sad as that is, there is some truth to that...

David, no offense personally but considering where you work it seems your throwing rocks from a glass house. ATT is one of the least credible companies I know of.

You haven't really met Ameren the electric company have you? Get back to me when you do.
--
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DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

1 edit

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

Ironic that you are chastising the terms yet ATT was one of the catalysts for the whole thing.

David does it ever give you pause that people are so disgusted with ATT and TW in Kansas City we will take just about any terms from Google?

I have war stories from ATT that will make your soul freeze in horror. And these customer service atrocities occurred on a regular basis. Shall we proceed?

David
hours are m-th 1130-10p central
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join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL
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Re: No Soup for Overland Park

said by DataRiker:

Ironic that you are chastising the terms yet ATT was one of the catalysts for the whole thing.

I must have missed it, but I didn't think AT&T nor Time Warner had anything to do with overland park's decision, or google's. If you have credible information contrary to the otherwise please supply it and let karl know so he can verify. Otherwise it's just pure speculation.

said by DataRiker:

David does it ever give you pause that people are so disgusted with ATT and TW in Kansas City we will take just about any terms from Google?

Hmmm, Interesting lesson to be learned I suppose. I guess if you flash enough $$$$$$$ and something fantastic, yet can leave after 2-3 years with no liabilities during or after that's just up and good for you?

my dad used to watch movies (old westerns) where there was a caravan full of people that had these mysterious cures in small bottles and such.

Always the plot that all was good till they left town or were out of sight. Good guys wore white, bad guys wore black. Ironically you can find a lot on netflix.

Old western movies do teach people things sometimes.

Look, if it makes you feel any better. I wouldn't get your hopes so high just to be disappointed. Nor would I give up any ground for a hope that may or may not come true. I have watched many do it in their lifetime and be sorely disappointed. if we look at it from the other end of the coin and say they did agree to all of Google terms and Google started building. Suppose there was a major problem and the city didn't have the funds to deal with it, they couldn't just up and go to google about it as they signed away their rights.
--
If you have a topic in the direct forum please reply to it or a post of mine, I get a notification when you do this.
Koetting Ford, Granite City, illinois... YOU'RE FIRED!!

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000

4 edits

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

I already have Google fiber and its better than promised to be honest, so I don't understand your suggestion to not get my "hopes high"

The people of Overland Park are FUMING at the council over this debacle ( I work in OP ) and it is literally the talk of the town. Rob was not exaggerating when he stated that the Council and mayor are going to burn for this politically. People are pissed. The anger stems back to the first time the council basically rebuked Google's offer.

mikedz4

join:2003-04-14
Weirton, WV

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

the thing is if they came to my city and said we are going to choose which neighborhoods to serve I would complain too. Plus if/when google decides they want to drop service the city is responsible for the infrastructure.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by David:

said by DataRiker:

Ironic that you are chastising the terms yet ATT was one of the catalysts for the whole thing.

I must have missed it, but I didn't think AT&T nor Time Warner had anything to do with overland park's decision, or google's. If you have credible information contrary to the otherwise please supply it and let karl know so he can verify. Otherwise it's just pure speculation.

I was not referring to the OP deal specifically but rather the bigger picture. ATT ( and Time Warner's ) abysmal service was a catalyst for Kansas City accepting Google's terms.

Anything we can get is better than ATT. Even if its temporary.

As you might put it, sad but true.

DataRiker
Premium
join:2002-05-19
00000
said by TBBroadband:

Very true. But remember this is Google. So it is okay that they take a ride on the Cities and anyone else's dime/pocket. If this was any other ISP the scale would tip the other way.

So what?

Nobody else is offering 1,000 / 1,000 for 70 dollars a month. The vast majority here will take that risk ( which is essentially none )

EricB

@rr.com
They had the backbone to not cave to demands... until they tried to cave to demands in the 13th hour of negotiations. And then begged for a second chance when they got denied for wasting time closing the deal (which costs both parties money). Bravo Councilmen! We got some real heroes working for OP interests!

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN
Someone posted audio:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNsv3qiYGDs
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Surewest

Guess it's time for OP to try to get Surewest to deploy gigabit fiber in their area, now that Google won't be touching it for awhile. Google may be the most flashy gigabit-for-cheap provider, but they are by no means the only one.

Heck, I hear that there's gigabit going in over in Lawrence. Maybe hire those same guys to come to Overland Park.

Point being, if Google walks away from an area, it isn't the end of the world. I know a guy who runs a WISP who is deploying gigabit to some towns east of Austin...one competing with TWC and AT&T, one competing with a tier 3 cableco and Verizon.

insomniac84

join:2002-01-03
Schererville, IN

Re: Surewest

They are the only ones offering symmetrical speeds. No cable company seems willing to come close to that offering.
silbaco
Premium
join:2009-08-03
USA

1 recommendation

Re: Surewest

There are other companies offering symmetrical speeds. But it doesn't really matter considering how few sites/services will actually allow you to utilize those upload speeds. At this point offering higher upload speeds just invites people to abuse the service to host commercial web servers out of their home.
TBBroadband

join:2012-10-26
Fremont, OH
Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·MegaPath
Josh over at Wicked Broadband/Fiber is deploying that FTTH had has been for a few years now according to their website. It shows that a small private business can do just what a mega corp think's it can do and that anyone can take on a project like this.

LateNighter

@12.192.98.x
Karl, I too was at the meeting last night and wouldn't totally agree with all of your comments. You can listen to the city council meeting here:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNsv3qiY···direct=1

tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:4

1 edit

redlining? cherry picking? Don't know ...

... what to call it.
Sorry Overland Park you've been Scroogled!? Screwgled!? Scroogeled!?

FizzyKU

@rr.com

Vote None of the Above...

Seems OP citizens are ready to make a change in the city council over this..some of them anyway.

»www.facebook.com/voteoutopcitycouncil
FiberFan

join:2013-10-16
Saint Louis, MO

Overland Park Logjam

This is nothing new for Overland Park. I was part of the original Everest Connections management team back in 2000. We presented to Overland Park and at that time were requesting a CATV Franchise along with permission to utilize their right of way. We were asking for the same deal that Time Warner had nothing more, nothing less. At our hearing we were told it would be 60 days before we had our agreement. It took almost 23 months to get our agreement finalized with Overland Park. Hopefully that does not happen again!

williamthril

@173.227.88.x

Conflict of interest

I wonder what that one voting member's conflict of interest was?

Lolaz

@alphapointe.org

Re: No Soup for Overland Park

It's clear you don't get it.

thesandman

@63.246.223.x

Google fiber

Wait a second. How could anyone criticize google over this debauchery. The fact of the matter is Google was offering a great deal, but the town council wanted to play hardball. They were complete fools for doing so because they new Google could walk into 90% of towns/cities out there who would jump at the same deal. i don't blame Google for walking away because if they were already giving Google a hard time before the any papers were signed, they would probably continue to give Google a hard time when it came to the actual time of deployment of Google fiber

Overland Park just Crapped It's Pants over Google Fiber Liability.....

Seems like the city attorneys and the mayor could have considered a solution like mutually paid "liability insurance" to protect themselves, the council, and their constituents. Somebody has a hidden agenda here......Just a thought...