dslreports logo
site
spacer

spacer
 
   
spc
story category
PayPal Bans BitTorrent Friendly VPN Provider
Entertainment Industry's War on VPNs, Proxies
by Karl Bode 08:26AM Monday Aug 13 2012
With ISPs soon engaging in a new six strikes policy that involves throttling and terminating the accounts of repeated copyrighted file traders, it seems inevitable that many of those users will simply migrated to VPN and proxy providers to hide themselves from the prying eyes of their ISPs. Not too surprisingly the entertainment industry is planning a war on these companies, and payment processors like Paypal appear to be volunteering to be on the front lines of that conflict. The payment operator has banned BitTorrent "friendly" TorGuard from using Paypal services. When asked why, the owner of the service was informed "PayPal doesn't allow promotion of ‘torrent trackers."

view:
topics flat nest 

boogi man

join:2001-11-13
Jacksonville, FL
kudos:1

4chan

didn't 4chan already smack paypal around for silliness recently? not saying that theft is a cool thing don't get me wrong there. the way that the entertainment biz in general reminds me a great deal of capitol hill....
--
my site
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

sea change? not really

google gonna cut off copyright infringement? and spite their face w/ youtube? there are plenty of money exchanging services.. it remains to be seen if laws can sufficiently be changed to raise the level of piracy to that of terrorism.. that war's been raging for quite some time?

I think not... just found by google search:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=akAj-TWUq0E

battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000

I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

I am sure we will next read about hackers targeting Paypal because some where they think they have a human right to use Paypal. Pirates are pretty clever so this shouldn't be more than a speed bump.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.

The Doctor

join:2011-11-25
Montreal,Qc

Re: I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

Run your own private vpn server to encrypt traffic and your isp will be back step 1

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

Re: I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

Running your own VPN server doesn't accomplish anything (other than letting you VPN into your own network from a remote location).

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

you can still buy a private server with paypal, then you can use that server anything, including setting up a VPN to torrent with. Paypal is being silly and over stepping their bounds.

maxpower2k

@sasknet.sk.ca

Re: I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

Both of you don't quite understand how running a VPN server would work. Running a VPN server at your own location would allow yourself (and possibly others) and use a VPN client to connect to you...

But unless you have a VPN client connection to another site... your ISP would be able to see all traffic going out that you are providing to your clients... as they would effectively be using your connection.

"buying a VPN server" isn't an option... and if you don't understand that... then you don't understand the mechanics of a VPN, or it's purpose.

vpoko
Premium
join:2003-07-03
Boston, MA

Re: I guess it's pay-pals right to do so.

said by maxpower2k :

Both of you don't quite understand how running a VPN server would work. Running a VPN server at your own location would allow yourself (and possibly others) and use a VPN client to connect to you...

But unless you have a VPN client connection to another site... your ISP would be able to see all traffic going out that you are providing to your clients... as they would effectively be using your connection.

"buying a VPN server" isn't an option... and if you don't understand that... then you don't understand the mechanics of a VPN, or it's purpose.

I *think* what FBGuy is trying to say is that you can buy a hosted server in a data center somewhere and use it for VPN. I don't agree with that since the hosting company is likely to keep logs and will not be happy if they get a subpoena because the server is being used to facilitate copyright infringement, etc.

loli
Premium
join:2002-08-26
South Richmond Hill, NY

1 recommendation

Isn't this old news?

June 22, 2012 - »torrentfreak.com/paypal-bans-bit···-120622/
June 26, 2012 - »torrentfreak.com/paypal-restores···-120626/

O.o
Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

Not going to stop anything

Aside from the fact that there are other and better options than paypal, here is the simplest way around it:

You buy "points" or "tokens" or whatever you want to call them with paypal (which is allowed), and that becomes "currency"
You then turn around and buy VPN service with said currency.

Systems like this are used by illegal gambling operations to get around gambling laws.

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN

So it's official

Paypal does not support privacy.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY

Private Company

PayPal is a private company and free to do as they please as long as they do not discriminate on issues of civil rights. eBay banned firearms related items long ago and new auction sites sprang up to handle the market. Perhaps Google Wallet would be willing to handle such payments.
--
I support the right to keep and arm bears.

ArrayList
netbus developer
Premium
join:2005-03-19
Brighton, MA

Re: Private Company

you are right that they are free to do so, but why would they not want that money? They have nothing to lose by allowing those transactions.

TheHelpful1
Premium
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD

Re: Private Company

Good question. Paypal is owned by eBay and it doesn't appear they have any financial ties to the entertainment industry, from their CEO John Donahoe on down.

Almost seems like Chic-fa-let, you are making a public stance on something that really doesn't matter to your business.
--
"My weakness is that I care too much"

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Private Company

said by TheHelpful1:

Almost seems like Chic-fa-let, you are making a public stance on something that really doesn't matter to your business.

But Chick-fi-let did not take a public stance; that I could see.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

IowaCowboy
Iowa native
Premium
join:2010-10-16
Springfield, MA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Verizon Broadban..
·Comcast

Just pay for your content

I pay for my cable subscription (video) on Comcast and I pay for my music on iTunes.

I have not received a single letter of copyright infringement from Comcast.

Illegal downloading is just like going into Best Buy or Target and taking the five finger discount on CDs and DVDs.
--
I wish I still lived in Iowa; Everything there from rent and groceries to Cable TV is much cheaper in Iowa (especially with an overbuilder in town).

TheHelpful1
Premium
join:2002-01-11
Upper Marlboro, MD

Re: Just pay for your content

said by IowaCowboy:

Illegal downloading is just like going into Best Buy or Target and taking the five finger discount on CDs and DVDs.

Not entirely apples to apples. Steal a CD from Best Buy, get sent to jail for petty theft and whatever applicable fines for that jurisdiction because most likely they have your mug on surveillance footage proving beyond reasonable doubt you done took it.

Provide unauthorized, copyrighted works on the internet via Torrent technology, where by downloading you are also uploading, get charged an disproportionate amount of fines and possibly get sent to jail for 5-10 years and it may not have even been you, just someone jumping on your non-encrypted Wi-Fi or bad IP management with your ISP.

Lets say with your permission I zap your car, lets say a Porsche, with a machine that spits out an exact copy, did I steal a car from Porsche? Did I break in to a Porsche dealership and drive away with one of their cars? This highlights the biggest problem with consumer protection laws. I bought something out right and should be able to do whatever I want with it. Now if I break in your garage and zap your car, thats an entirely different story.
--
"My weakness is that I care too much"
Dodge
Premium
join:2002-11-27

Re: Just pay for your content

said by TheHelpful1:

Lets say with your permission I zap your car, lets say a Porsche, with a machine that spits out an exact copy, did I steal a car from Porsche? Did I break in to a Porsche dealership and drive away with one of their cars? This highlights the biggest problem with consumer protection laws. I bought something out right and should be able to do whatever I want with it. Now if I break in your garage and zap your car, thats an entirely different story.

Screw torrenting, where do I get a copier like that

Rogue Wolf
Mourns the Loss of lilhurricane

join:2003-08-12
Troy, NY

Re: Just pay for your content

It may be a while, but someday we'll be seeing this in every home. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing
--
I may have been born yesterday, but I've spent all afternoon downtown.
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Negative. Those are different classes entirely.

1. If you go into said store and shoplift, that is theft of property because said owner is BBY, etc and is petit larceny. You are stealing propery (the physical disc)
2. If you download a work AND don't pay for it, then that is a DMCA violation which is considered theft of intellectual property and hence the fines are stiff because the laws were originally meant for say one performer "copying" another not distributing. There is nothing physical to steal (there are bits...)
3. Bootlegs - That falls under performance art, which is another IP violation class altogether and falls under the DMCA too.

So please spread the word correctly, these are all different scenarios. This is why they want physical media to go away, because even if the license they provide for said media prohibits resale, it has been shown they can't even if say a TPP doesn't facilitate the sale. So you buy a CD, you can sell it to anyone you want, regardless of the terms they put on the sale.

A VAST majority of people don't understand IP (intellectual property) laws because in fact the reasoning for the laws go against human nature (which is to spread information not restrict it). I deal w/ IP all day long. Most of these laws are antiquated and are punitive.

At some point when humans evolve we will go back to 1000 years ago when every work of art was treated as such, a treasure to be shared by all mankind, and not pay for every impression. There were sponsors, patrons--today's internet facilitates that. The only difference is that today a master patron (say Universal group) is taking that performance and reselling it to the masses and controlling the distribution through laws, effectively choking competition and distribution. Once content can be performed to the masses without a filter and an adequate way to "patronize" the artist we will again have a renaissance in the arts. In the meantime we have mass consumption drivel. That withstanding there is a ton on indie music out there that is vastly superior to what is presented to the masses.
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
said by IowaCowboy:

I pay for my cable subscription (video) on Comcast and I pay for my music on iTunes.

Where can I buy digital downloads of movies and TV shows?

Note that I said buy, not rent. You can buy MP3 files, save them to your hard drive, burn them to disc, etc. Where can I go to do the same thing for movies and TV shows?

For example, I'd like to legally download episodes of the 2005 CBS crime drama "Close to Home". Where do I go for that?

When The Avengers comes out on home video, where can I go to buy a digital download of the film? One that I can keep and re-watch as many times as I want, just like I can with MP3 files?

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Just pay for your content

said by Rekrul:

Where can I buy digital downloads of movies and TV shows?

I can't say about the specific shows you mentioned, but ...
Movies:

iTunes store.

TV:

iTunes store.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT

Re: Just pay for your content

said by NormanS:

I can't say about the specific shows you mentioned, but ...

Actually, Close to Home isn't available from any legal source. Despite lasting two seasons, it's just one of many shows that has never been released on DVD. Other such shows include Seven Days, Special Unit 2, All Souls, Committed, Project UFO and more.

As for the movies, I should have mentioned that the videos have to play on any device, just like MP3 files do.

RARPSL

join:1999-12-08
Suffern, NY

Re: Just pay for your content

said by Rekrul:

said by NormanS:

I can't say about the specific shows you mentioned, but ...

Actually, Close to Home isn't available from any legal source. Despite lasting two seasons, it's just one of many shows that has never been released on DVD. Other such shows include Seven Days, Special Unit 2, All Souls, Committed, Project UFO and more.

As for the movies, I should have mentioned that the videos have to play on any device, just like MP3 files do.

IMO: Failure to release on DVD (or as downloadable files) voids any claim of piracy when I go to a BitTorrent site and download a copy that was made from the aired show. IOW: If you do not want to sell your show to me yet I want it, you have no loss to claim if I get it from another source for free.

As to SU2 and 7Days - both are available if you know which BT site to look on. I would rather have them as Official DVDs but having them in AVI format allows me to view them when I want. As to DVD release the cost is minor IF they want to go the Burn On Demand as opposed to Pressing DVD route (there are a number of movies and shows that are being sold by the studios that way in lieu of full blown pressed versions). Once they make up the master image doing burns is cheap since there is no pressing or stock/inventory cost. I admit that once you want to add bonus features the cost of creating the master goes up but just issuing just the episodes is a minor cost since you already have the shows and thus need to create nothing extra.

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:11
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC

Re: Just pay for your content

said by RARPSL:

IMO: Failure to release on DVD (or as downloadable files) voids any claim of piracy when I go to a BitTorrent site and download a copy that was made from the aired show. IOW: If you do not want to sell your show to me yet I want it, you have no loss to claim if I get it from another source for free.

If the IP owner isn't selling, I wonder if he can still prove a tort in court? Just don't ask me to be the test case.

FWIW, the only tunes I have pirated are out of print.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum
Rekrul

join:2007-04-21
Milford, CT
said by RARPSL:

As to SU2 and 7Days - both are available if you know which BT site to look on.

Yes, but unfortunately, both were recorded off the SciFi Channel, which is notorious for chopping out parts of shows in order to cram in more commercials. If the tapes haven't degraded to the point where they're unwatchable, I have all the episodes of SU2 recorded off the original broadcasts (except for one that I had to record the repeat of, since we lost power in the middle of the first airing) on UPN. At some point in the near future, I'd like to get something to allow me to digitize them.

The only thing is, I'm not sure I can make good copies out of them. I mean, Windows stutters when playing videos, how is it going to digitize and encode videos in real-time? Not that I have a slow system. It's a 2.4Ghz, Dual Core system, but it still stutters every few minutes. It seems like Windows is incapable of doing anything without stuttering occasionally. Yes, I've turned off indexing, temporarily disabled my re-time virus scanning, etc. It still stutters.
ClydeKatt

join:2012-08-14
Erie, PA
some shows just shouldn't have been made, let alone put on dvd.

Jim Kirk
Premium
join:2005-12-09
said by IowaCowboy:

I pay for my cable subscription (video) on Comcast and I pay for my music on iTunes.

I have not received a single letter of copyright infringement from Comcast.

Illegal downloading is just like going into Best Buy or Target and taking the five finger discount on CDs and DVDs.

The Morality Police have arrived!

morbo
Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22
00000

Yet another reason to avoid Paypal

Do consumers need yet another reason to avoid using Paypal? The way they seemed too eager to cut off Wikileaks was telling.
tmc8080

join:2004-04-24
Brooklyn, NY
Reviews:
·ooma
·Optimum Online
·Verizon FiOS

buy direct..

TPB (after the raid) got into the VPN business.. and AFAIK they're still in it, at least in a small way... since Sweden decided companies can sue people for copyright infringement AND subpoena ISP data to make the case, almost the same as in the USA and UK. Although I dont' think that it's spread evenly throughout Europe (yet).. our USA copyright rules of law..

Many of these Nordic countries have great internet.. 100/100 symmetric was commonplace (5 years ago) for dirt cheap prices.

While the public at-large is oblivious to the growing law enforcement contingent attacking torrent sites as of late.. recently they shuttered Demonoid (probably for good), which was on the top-10 list of best & most popular torrent sites. This probably means they are on-track for something bigger by the end of the year law-enforcement wise.. and if that's the case, VPNs could see skyrocketing business in the USA, if privacy rights begin to be trashed by law enforcement & isps (moreso than they are today).

There are plenty of legit reasons to buy a VPN from a business called "The Pirate Bay"... just as there are plenty of legit reasons to own an AR-15 assault rifle in Aurora Colorado and 100 round magazine clips. Afterall, don't mess with the NRA and the 2nd amendment of the Constitution.... regardless if Reagan's close inner circle got shot up.. it was god's will.. if you look deep enough, I'm sure the Constitution says something good in support of pirates too.. or at least, the right to buy a VPN and not be under suspicion, but this link to terrorism being bought by the copyright industry is worrysome.. constitution be damned when you create fear in people's minds about terrorism.

Will there be big demand for interent once alot of the piracy is gone? Hmm? Chicken and the Egg Mc Muffin..
desarollo

join:2011-10-01
Monroe, MI

Re: buy direct..

Did you just rationalize someone getting shot in the head and use the same argument for pirating content?
elefante72

join:2010-12-03
East Amherst, NY
Old news. Legal streaming has supplanted P2P traffic for a long time now. The point is people will pay for content if you make it easily available, that's why they pirated, not because they were morally corrupt.

There is disruption going on in cable TV. The old bundling and hard to get scheme is going to come to a tragic end. Once that happens broadcast becomes unicast, and that means big network upgrades to handle it.

The good news is that HSI can be heavily biased for download to add capacity since streaming is normally ingress. P2P killed upload and that is what was really causing HSI non fibre vendors a problem. Also they had to pay transit fees whereas your major streaming vendors have CDN in cloud which costs them nothing to deliver.
Fiveof5

join:2012-08-16

Re: buy direct..

said by Thistool :

Respectfully what the heck are you talking about?

I agree with Thistool. Even though I'm more technically knowledgable than many people, you lost me there too. Respectfully what the heck ARE you talking about? I don't mean that sarcastically...it sounds like you KNOW what you're talking about and I'd really like to better understand.

Thistool

@frontiercorp.com
Respectfully what the heck are you talking about?

Tx
bronx cheers from cheap seats
Premium
join:2008-11-19
Mississauga, ON
kudos:12
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·FreePhoneLine
·Rogers Hi-Speed

Paypal needs to back off and mind it's own business

wow everyone is acts like a boy scout. If you speed you break the law, you download you break the law. We all do something wrong in our daily lives.

Comparing piracy to being shot in the head? huh?

This is rather off topic and had been going that way since the original post. This is about PayPal banning bittorrent friendly VPN providers.

Private company or not, who are they to dictate who a VPN provider can sell to? They are overstepping, that's the issue. PayPal has always been heavy handed for no reason and has always been a pain in peoples behinds.

They are joining a battle, a war and a fight against piracy of which isn't theirs to fight. It's also like saying bittorrent is illegal. It is not. It may be used for illegal activities, but so does IRC to transmit illegal software.

Newsgroups are also used to transmit illegal software even more than bittorrent.

As i said they are fighting a random battle to try and stay relevant. PayPal has always stepped in where they did not belong.
iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

they want government business

proof here. »merchant.paypal.com/cgi-bin/mark···payments
this is why they have a large list of prohibited uses!.
LondonOntGuy

join:2004-05-12
London, ON

Re: they want government business

Set phasers to 'rape'. I suspect it will be the usual method of attack, DDoS, doxing, black faxes and pizzas.
zipjay

join:2003-03-11
South Williamson, KY

Why only VPNs?

Why not cut off comcast, verizon, and all the other isps out there from using paypal? They promote torrenting by providing a service that is used to download torrents... Why not cut off Dell, HP, and all the other computer manufactures because they provide hardware that is used for torrenting? Double Standards these days ;P
ClydeKatt

join:2012-08-14
Erie, PA

ebay/paypal

both ebay and paypal owned by the same company, make rules up as they go, between them both your service and what you are able to accomplish with them all depends on who u speak to at either place, on the phone. Ebay a month ago shut my account down to a 10 list limit because a friend of mine who lives down the street owed them fees, i was told since we know each other by an ebay phone rep, if i wanted my account unfroze from the 10 limit i should go make him pay, i asked the guy if he was hiring a henchman to collect their money he said yes, if ever a time to have recorded a call. i would own that company now. since my limits have been restored. but in general they don't care about the sellers on ebay......