Paying Your ISP -- Just To Pay Your ISP

Credit card companies charge Verizon, shouldn't Verizon be able to pass that charge to the customer if they want?

And you can pay your bill by check when the bill comes - cost 1 1st class stamp.
Or you can use your banks bill-pay system - cost nothing for most bank customers.

I still get paper bill from Verizon at no extra chg. But if they do add a paper bill fee later, a paperless bill can go to my bank for online reading at no charge.

Same with Comcast.

Since is isn't an overtly illegal practice
and
since it is not an individual/consumer who's doing this
then
that makes it ethical.

The large number of corporations who profit from consumers this way, is all the evidence we need; to know that this is appropriate.

and

As we already know:
any law that restricts a business from capitalizing on any consumer weakness; is itself unethical and should be repealed.

and

Any person who - at any time, for any reason -
is flawed in their effort
in preventing a business from taking advantage of them;
deserves whatever loss they incur.

As a society, we expend far too many resources on non-superior people as it is. Compassion is for fools.

NV

Except in 2016 (or 2020, I forget).... There will be no checks. The banking community (globally) has elected to phase out the check system & convert to cash & digital (credit cards, online bill pay, ect...)

This is the first I've heard of this. Do you happen to have a link to back this up?

I still pay the following bills with a check, and mail them every month

Electric / Gas (Wisconsin Electric)
Rent
Auto Loan
Cable TV / Internet (Time Warner / RR)
Cell Phone (Sprint)
Mastercard

I only have one bill that gets paid via automatic payment, and that is my auto insurance (American Family).

I actually would rather pay by check. If this is the case, looks like I will cancel things, pay them off by 2020, or find a different way to pay.

--Brian

Are you sure you're not talking about UK? I do not see usa going away from checks anytime soon, especially businesses.

Yes, you are correct. UK only (for now):

»blog.hsh.com/index.php/2 ··· -follow/

said by silentlooker :

---

Are you sure you're not talking about UK? I do not see usa going away from checks anytime soon, especially businesses.

---

I know The UK is going it and The Europe Union is also going to add this. I recall a bill in congress (usa) which supported this also, but am having a hard time finding it now. Either it's one of those thing which got put down or is hidden (again). But I do know its been in the works.

The plumbing company charges them to fix their clogged drains.
The power company causes them to have electricity.

Moreover, you still get charged when you pay with an EFT and the bank doesn't charge for that, last I heard of it.

Business expenses are business expenses. Sack up and take payments.

I would hope the fee is not being used to make an additional profit, but I suppose it is Verizon's right to do this if they choose.

Because this fee is not mandatory for all customers, since there are other reasonable options available, I'm glad it is being implemented per use rather than absorbed into every customer's bill. What I don't like are any fees that everyone has to pay being separated from the cost of the service in an effort to be able to advertise rates at a lower price. Keeping taxes out of the cost of the service rates is completely understandable, however, ambiguous recovery fees do not belong on their own line in my bill.

I'm ok with this charge. In fact, it caused me to setup my bank's bill pay system, which I have found to be wonderful and extremely flexible in its application. I receive e-Bills from Verizon and I decide exactly when and how much to pay, and it's all conveniently tracked online where I can access this information practically anywhere at any time.

Everything is bliss, at least until my identity is stolen.

Yup. I believe we need biometrics to prevent identity theft. Though culturally we seem opposed.

This is absorbed in every customer's bill. Just as it has been since the very inception of the company. But what they have done now is more or less double-dipped it. Follow along now as I try to go slow for all to understand.

They always had an account receivable department and they have always paid fees to use certain payment types (credit card / debit). Those were expenses and were always factored into the cost of the business thus were passed on to the consumer (even when they went up).

As the years have passed they have gotten much more efficient at this and have reduced the cost (overseas outsourcing) to actually receive payment. Thus they have increased their profits by reducing their expense in receiving your payment.

Now they simply want to force you into autopay because as it was pointed out in the article you are less likely to notice billing discrepancies and are less likely to do anything about it after you have already paid. PLUS, they can simply get more money from the "weak" as an added bonus.

You are not telling us anything that many of us don't already know. All of what you say is basically true. I'm just happy that I did not see a $3.50 Credit Card Recovery Fee added to my bill each month.

Verizon should be able to charge whatever they want, but if every customer is forced to pay a fee without any other options available, it should never be separated from the regular cost of the service. I simply do not want to see FiOS being sold for $19.95/month, but with $200 fees tacked on for every subscriber. If Verizon wants to lump all kinds of fees and adjustments into the final cost of the advertised service rate, that should be ok, as long as the price is listed as being $219.95/month.

Don't you mean "Verizon has the right to be "Greedy?"You're either,being passive,or both,too accepting,as Verizon is worth billions as Directv..why doesn't Directv offer us? DSL afterall,the money we pay each month for the last 11yrs should result in some honorable offer,,what's this re:Verizon buying Directv? never happened,,we have unlimited Verizon but I'm still screwed while "Verizon" refuses to covers the area of Bushkill,pa{Pocono Mts} we're not on another planet as they DO cover the E,Stroudsburg,which is 45 min's away & forget the other Cable like "Blue Ridge" they're sickening,face it "Directv" is the "Cadillac" of ALL tv "Satlelite"also Directv is sooo cheap greedy,they still never offered ,us a free DVR,like other companies do!Also I'm stuck w/ dial-up which ruins computers slower& slower,cannot talk while computing? Greed!

Wow.
You should post more often. That was entertaining...

No.

Not according to credit card company agreement. The can not charge you extra for accepting credit cards.

The federal government should stop that bs. If you pay by credit card you pay the fee not for the people that does not cost them any thing.

Do you have a link? That sounds like a new thing

There no law now but they should be. Maybe I'll start writing my congress people about it.

But they CAN give a "cash discount" price - I remember when service stations were doing that. Not so much anymore, consumer backlash seems to have alleviated that.

My favorite antique mall in Salamanca, NY has restrictions - a vendor offers 30% off this week but only 24% if a credit card is used.

If there's a way to squeeze an extra dollar from a customer, Verizon will find it. I don't use them any more, between billing and technical support shortcomings (not in their script, you're SOL) I couldn't stand it.

Service stations Stopped what! Buddy u need to get out more often. IN Most/all of the southern states the majority of service stations still give a "cash discount" or the way I see it " extra service charge" for using a credit/debit card at a gas station . They could care less about consumer back lash.

PS: even up north there are still gas stations continuing this practice drive through Detroit's metro area and see for yourself.
I recently took a drive from Chicago to Toronto and speak from experience.

When I had my business and used MasterCard,Visa, I paid a % as a transaction fee for my customers and per contract couldn't charge extra (cost of doing business)back to the customer. Yes I know there are ways around this but..........................the credit card companies were firm about this. Maybe changed, not sure

I work in NJ and most of the Gas Stations have a Credit Card and a Cash Price. They claim that they are not charging for the use of the card since the Card Price is the "real" price and they are just giving a discount for NOT using your card and paying in cash.

Sure, they can, but seriously, do you think anyone is going to say anything to anger a customer that does millions in transactions per month? I didn't think so.

Personally, I see nothing wrong or immoral about a company passing the credit card processing fees back to the customer.
But what does that have to with the news article?
The credit card processing fee Verizon pays is going to be ~a dollar on an $80.00 bill.
Do you believe Verizon should be able to markup that cost 350% before passing it on to the consumer?

It's against credit card agreement and you see nothing wrong with Verizon doing it?

It is a gray area. They are not charging for using a credit card, They are charging the fee that the third party charges to process the transaction.

Nope! They are trying to "encourage" force? everyone to opt in to "auto-pay". Under AutoPay there is NO FEE. How does that work? Here is the notice I received on my account:This has everything to do with their ability to stiff customers, and then having the burden of refund placed on the customer. It's rogue business practice. Charging $3.50 to process a $19.99 charge is criminal!

Wanna bet this "vendor" is overseas? More outsourcing of jobs? At least if you pay by check some American in Albany has to be hired to open the envelops!

Bob

Maybe 20 yrs ago. Machines open the envelopes, pull out the checks and the invoice, scan them, & then process them electronically.

Not mine i can guarantee you that for sure. I put a check on white paper and fold it. The machine would have to unfold the paper to get to the check.

My money says that "vendor" is another verizon property.

I agree with you, that Verizon should charge back only what they are billed by the credit card company.

Over here - »www.merchant-accounts.co ··· unt.html I see fees for processing a credit card transaction as 25 cents plus 1.69% of the fee. On $80, that would be .25 plus 1.352 or roughly $1.65. Over here - »credit-card-processing-r ··· ews.com/ is a list of credit card processors, and the internet rate seems to be closer to 2%. This could make the cost closer to $2.

I assume Verizon could get decent terms, I'd assume a fee of $1.50-$2 would make more sense. I'm not certain if there aren't other fees that go on top of that, also IIRC some cards (American Express?) charge more than others.

Maybe someone who knows more about how these processing fees are charged can shed some light on it for us.

I based my estimate on my own business's cost of processing credit card payments (which is why I don't see anything wrong about passing it on, LOL)
My tiny business would pay ~$1.24 on an $80.00 transaction.
I do have an excellent rate schedule, but still, it's an absolute no brainer that Verizon has a much lower schedule than I do, guaranteed.

Thanks, then the fee should be more like $1 and not $3.50.

Why stop there? Why not charge you for their electricity, their water, their ink, their paper, their bandwidth etc. It's a cost of doing business and should be transparent to the end user.

They do, it's bundled in your bill. This seems to be an attempt to break out only credit card usage. This is a customer choice, and if the costs are clearly explained at time of the charge, it shouldn't be difficult.

Generally an online bank will pay next day without any fee. Verizon may currently be subsidizing those who pay by credit card with revenue from those who do not. I have a friend who charges everything to get "free" air mile credits. He doesn't understand it isn't really free. If he had to pay $3.50 to get his free miles, he may better understand the situation vendors who accept credit cards are in.

Elecricity water ink paper is used by every customer. When a credit card customer uses a cc there is a charge for it. If you go into a Bestbuy store and a $100.00 bill with a cc the Bestbuy has to pay the cc fee. If I pay a $100.00 bill with cash there no fee. So it should be if you pay by cc you the fee not the one paying cash.
Credit cards is a controllable bill that is caused by 1 group of people

Actually no- most merchant agreements FORBID companies from charging customers extra to pay by credit card. Although I can see a company like Verizon negotiating their way out of that clause.

Companies still do it anyway- they just call it other names like "handling fee" or "convenience fee". Who's convenience exactly? credit card payments are automated whereas paper checks need to be handled.

As a business that excepts Visa and Mastercard, both of their merchant agreements forbid the merchant from adding a surcharge to credit card charges to make up for the processing fee. Now it doesn't mean all businesses follow this rule, but technically you can have your processing rights revoked.

I can pay them online at their site, for $1.80 for either a credit card or electronic check.

State of illinois drivers license renewal is $2.25 to pay online. They consider it a "convenience fee".

This is pure utter crap.

They don't deserve to enjoy a "steady stream of payments" when they're already "enjoying" billions of dollars in fees as it is. It should blatantly be illegal to PUNISH a user to NOT opt-in to an automated paying system. This also questions their motive and if it's not JUST to coerce people to pay into their little scheme of autonomy but to also subvert the user in subjecting his or herself to accepting contractual changes. I agree in that it's absolutely 100% in place to manipulate the customer and get them to *forget* about paying their bills so that they can essentially /slip/ one by, that either being these fees that they're so *kindly* paying us back for or acceptance to an agreement that they can insure they'll never have to make another payout, again.

Pay via your Checking Account still no charge.

For now...

I just put said biller into the bill pay and I am done. I will not pay a fee to pay my bill... especially when there are no human contacts.

If I stand in front of Verizon's HQ with my wallet open, do you think that I'll have any cash left in it at the end of the day?

I don't know. Give me the time and address you will be there and we can test it out.

Fortunately my carrier (U.S. Cellular) doesn't do this (yet...).

Utilities have no charge for using checking acct. online.

Cox has no such fee for using a card over the phone.

I'd probably rather pay by cash. As much as I don't care for checks, I'd also rather mail one of those than be charged unless absolutely necessary.

Card fees are eaten by companies all the time. Does anyone expect a "convenience charge" on EVERYTHING they buy? Cell phone companies are not some poor shopkeeper either, they're rather profitable. There ought to at least be an option online to pay by an "electronic check" but NOT be forced into automatic payments.

Auto pay is one thing for a small service, like Netflix or Rhapsody where the price is SET (I have both).
...It is another thing to just let your cell company, or other business where prices can fluctuate wildly, just take whatever they say you owe them.

...I think that's where some people take issue with this...

Not everyone wants it, even if they could afford it.

Cox does have a fee if you're using a live body to make the payment.

I'm not surprised at this.
They want to charge you a fee to pay your bill, if you don't do it automatically.
How soon until they charge you a fee to pay automatically?
Then they will charge you a fee to waive the fee of the fee that they charge, plus a handling fee for that transaction, and a transactional fee. Plus a one time fee for the recurring fee to collect fees.

STOP NICKEL AND DIMING US ALREADY!

This corporate greed is way out of hand. It was so much better when there was ONE phone company!

sometimes i think they just sit around and come up with new ways to nickle and dime us.

Verizon Wireless does not do this (yet). I suppose it is just a matter of time.

As for passing through credit card charges, note that Verizon is charging you if you do a one-time payment with credit card, but as I understand it, they do not charge if you set up recurring bill pay by credit card. Presumably, the cost to them charged by the credit card company is the same either way, since Verizon has to submit the perhaps varying charge to the credit card company each month anyway. So what is their spin to justify the charge? Sounds a lot like performances where you must pay a TicketMaster surcharge, even if you walk up to the box office to buy the tickets.

I wonder how their lawyers crafted the policy to get around the "no surcharge for using our card" part of the Visa/MasterCard merchant agreement? BTW, government agencies are exempt from that rule. But even in cash-strapped California, the Motor Vehicle department does not surcharge annual registration fees done by credit card on their Web site. Apparently they save so much by not having clerks to process paper checks, that they willingly eat the merchant fee for the online payment.

I had a lawn treatment company demand that I authorize automatic bill pay before they would provide service. I signed a contract for six treatments a year. When I checked my records at the end of the term of the contract I found I was charged for nine treatments and other services that I did not request. When I complained the company credited my account for the extra treatments not the other treatment like potash. They continued to provide service without a contract. Then when I sold my house and moved to an area where they did not serve, they did not stop billing me for service after I notified them in writing by certified mail to stop treating the lawn I no longer owned. I had to threaten to go to the State Attorney Generals Office to force them to stop billing me and credit my account for service on property I did not own. Automatic Bill Pay is a license to steal for the service provider.

...is that the customers who want to use a particular method which costs more than the company-preferred method(s) should have to pay to maintain that method instead of having it subsidized by every other customer who uses a cheaper method for paying bills. This would be called the "a la carte" approach... I'm sorry, but isn't that what we want most of the time (to save us money--those of us, that is, who use the cheaper and "free" method)?

VERIZON FIOS is awsoem but their billing dept is 100% rotten.

Sure I can electronic bill pay but getting a bill by them in the mail is so random as to incure extra charge if I dont pay because of a bill they did not mail me.

So I feel sorry for any Montgomery County Maryland FIOS customers.

If you use credit card on their online website however they process CC through a 3rd party provider not themselves.

Online bill payment through your bank is way to go.

Online bill pay... write a check and mail it.. I mean, ultimately the money comes from the checking account. AND, I'm sure that MOST people use a DEBIT card, not a CREDIT card in the first place. THAT, in every sense, IS conveneince.

If Verizon is only attacking credit card payments - then my hat off to them. Accepting credit cards is VERY expensive for companies and I'm surprised more utilities haven't stopped accepting them all together OR done like many power companies and charge a $15.00 fee for using them. The merchant processors take a percentage of every transaction plus a fixed $0.35 fee (on average) which adds up to a lot of money.. not to mention the added cost of what it takes to pay what USED to be a service representative who has now become payment operators, an hourly rate. On top of all that, one has to factor in the high rate of fraud and the declined payments in the background in the mix. (This would be the charges that a merchant obtained an auth, but when the charge came through there was no money to fund it)

So long as checks and cash are free, I'm all for it.

bank of America bill payment option allows you to store account numbers of your bills and name of companies you make payment to. Its more convenient that writing a check and mailing, especially if you don't have outgoing mailbox and live in apartment complex. The source of funding comes from checking account. Either they process electronically or mail a check to address you specified. And you no longer have to buy many checks.

My bank was originally Fleet but it got merged with BoA. Eventually it was plus to me because i did not have to close bank account when I moved to another state.

P.S in Europe it is very common to use an instant bank transfer as an alternative to a credit card. And it is managed by your own bank, not Paypal or anything like that.

yes, credit card companies are finding new ways to screw consumers. nothing new here. oil companies found a way to desensitize consuemrs to deregulated prices. I can see no reason except to say that many debit and credit cards are almost always part of a REWARDS points system by which banks encourage consumers to use these cards, but now are trying to profiteer by charging ever increasing fees.. if not directly, by proxy.. this is something congress should look into... there's NO WAY large banks aren't getting a kick-back from 3rd party transaction companies just to do business. [Think about this: can a 3rd party payment company J U S T I F Y a charge $$ MORE $$ than it would cost for YOU to take money out of a ATM machine from a different bank?]

verizon cusotmers do have two free optinos left: you can make single ONE TIME PAYMENTS to verizon by snail mail check, OR electronic check... using account number and routing number. for this they CAN NOT CHARGE A FEE FOR-- if they left the consumer no option verizon would be under investigation for gouging consumers just to pay them. in exchange they should also be forced to liberalize/eliminate their late fee policy due to the limited way they can be paid for snail mail and electronic check transations which are deprioritized ways of paying the bill (typically multiple days to clear instead of 48 hour business day guarantee)

i know verizon wouldn't like customers to go into a customer payment center and pay with pennies. so, I hope this isn't a slippery slope where other companies try to pass off similar costs of paying for goods and services.. because that would force a backlash by the consumer. consumers are already in a love-hate (mostly hate) relationship with banks and other financial institutions.

I have been paying my VZ DSL bill via "one-time" payments on the first of every month, and have opted for paperless billing.

I received notice that as of November 1st, this method will cost me $3.50 additional. They suggest I authorize them to auto-pay. FU! I do not trust VZ with any billing/money issues.

The blowback: I have invalidated my CC info they have on file. I now REQUIRE paper bills in the mail, and I will send them a paper check via my bank (free service) dated the last day before penalties acrue.

Let's see; they now have to send postage mail, physically open mail containing my check, and wait till the check clears their bank. That should eat significantly into the $19.99 I pay them each month.

If more people objected in kind, this shit would stop in a heartbeat.

Bob

Unless thay are total moron's. The cost of that transaction to them from the 3rd party processor is somewhere on the order of 10 cents. (usually even lower).

Charging a customer $3.50 for that transaction is price gouging, Plain and simple.

I had auto pay with another company for the same reason. Forced into it so as not to be charged extra fees. When the bill was sent to me I might notice an error usually in their favor. Call them up they would happily correct it but then say refunded next month or sometime in the future as to late to change the auto pay. This would even happen the same day the bill was posted to my online account.
Sure they were nice about it but still took the extra money then refunded it when they felt like it.

They want automated bill pay because they see it as insurance.

Large bills and mistakes will pull the money right out of your account. And thus they then have the cash. It is you that then has to fight with them to fix the problems and get your money back. They no longer have to fight you to pay bullshit charges.

It puts the ball in their court and if they rule against you, the only way you can get your money back is small claims court. Which most people won't do.

well, yes and no. most companies if you demand a refund into your account, even if its small, they will do it. So, as I read my moms thing on what she can and cannot do with her card scanner, it says that her card processing fees (and it says it bold, italic, large, and very clearly) cannot be billed to the customer. This would result in a termination of her contract with the bank. So, im guessing verizon outsourced their card processing center to somewhere outside the US with a very lucrative deal with the card companies. they probably don't have the restrictions that verizon does, and since this outsourced company probably is in it to make a profit, why not charge a ton for a little bill? figure, they get 1% or less per transaction, so even on a $100 bill, this is still only a dollar. they only way they would not break even is if your bill was $350 or more. rip off, and scam. I would like to find out who this "company" is that is processing their cards now.

When AT&T overcharged my checking account on their autopay service(bill was only 105, "autopay" charged almost 400)they refused to credit my checking account immedatly, instead saying that it would credit my next few bills.
I told them that I did not have 400 in my account, and that my account was now overdrawn. The rep told me that it wasn't AT&T's fault(when clearly it was) and that there was nothing he could do, and HUNG UP. I called back(I had his name) and asked to speak to a supervisor. I explained what happened, and said that IF I did not get a credit to my checking account for the overcharged amount, plus a credit for the overdraft fee my bank charged me(after pointing out that it was AT&Ts fault for overdrawing my checking account) I would be filing charges for theft, because they clearly STOLE money from my checking account that was not meant for them. The supervisor actually escalated it, and after talking to 1 more person, the refund directly to my checking account happened.

Moral of the story: IF verizon makes a mistake, and they want to credit your next bill, DEMAND that it be credited back to your checking account. If they refuse, say that you are going to press charges for theft(technically, they took money from your account that was not designated for them, weak case, but you could win). They will credit your checking account, and not your next bill. This trick works with most companies.

Now that Visa and MC have settled with the DOJ, we will probably see a resurgence in the use of checks for payment as now merchants can offer discounts to those who pay by check, pin debit, or cash instead of credit card.

The story is misleading in that Chase does NOT charge anything for one to pay their credit card bill by automated phone. That is the best way with Chase as their site is NOT secure and tries to surreptitiously set a third party cookie. You can't even set your browser to use the safest ciphers if you want to be able to login to chaseonline. (Chase will use RSA/MD5 cipher (not safe) unless you disallow that in your browser settings. Even then the server refuses to choose a really good cipher although other banks that I do online banking with will choose a stronger cipher if I set my browser to not allow the weak ones).

Time Warner is NOT charging in Hawaii to pay your bill in person. That would REALLY anger people here if they ever try that. HawaiianTelCom is not charging to pay the phone bill/DSL in person and I don't think they would be stupid enough to try that.

It will be interesting to see what happens with credit cards that offer cash back deals, mileage, etc. now that merchants can offer discounts to customers that pay by check, cash or pin debit. As for using your bank's bill pay that is NOT free. It costs $10 a month here unless I want to keep a large amount in a savings account with the bank with practically no interest and having to show activity each month, etc. Plus, the bank is not liable if the check does not reach the person by the due date. Paying local bills in person is always the wisest thing.

Pay in person, with cold cash, until they provide an incentive to do otherwise.

Hell, if I was going to get charged a fee for paying in person, I'd make them work for it! I'd bring in a big jar full of change!

All you have to do is drop your ISP and go to a another.[/sarcasm]