  odogCable Centric Vendor BiasedPremium,VIP
join:2001-08-05
Atlanta, GA
kudos:5
1 edit | They make bigger ones When I lived in CT they had just finished installing larger ones every ~3000 feet on Boston Post RD. Next time I'm back up there I'll get photos. | |
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 ExecProPremium
join:2002-06-07
Long Beach, NY | Verizon The ones that verizon has been installing around here on the poles are much better. They mount them high up, and they are only around 3 feet wide by 4 feet tall, much smaller than what I have seen in these pics. Don't understand why these need to be so big!
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Information Technology Solutions | Computer Help Desk | Free Online Backup | |
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 | | | Re: Verizon The reason ATT's units are so much larger is because of how they chose to upgrade there plant, it takes a lot of space to house all those DSLAMS as well as having to power it. Verizon on the other hand just needs a place to splice the fiber into there network, there is no power equipment involved beyond what is installed at the central office and at the end of the fiber in each home. | |
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| JohnAPremium
join:2003-09-16
Pittsburgh, PA |
The Verizon boxes (HUBs) are non-powered splitters. They are the splice point where the trunk fiber from the CO is split and fed to segments of the neighborhood as a single fiber per unit. Since all the boxes contain are the splits and no power they are much smaller. All the splicing occurs on the overhead segments of cables built into the boxes. | |
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 FicmanSPremium
join:2005-01-11
Brownsburg, IN | Yeah much better.... Can't wait to read the headline when somebody plows into one of those poles and one of those units comes through a windshield...
I'm a little shocked frankly... | |
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|  nunyaWho is John Galt?Premium,MVM
join:2000-12-23
O Fallon, MO
kudos:5 | Re: Yeah much better.... My thoughts exactly. No new equipment or facilities are supposed to be placed on a pole less than 18" (national minimum) from a roadway. The pole pictured is in violation.
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All we need now is a car that runs on milk. | |
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| | Cod
join:2000-07-05
Kernersville, NC Reviews:
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Yeah much better.... said by nunya:My thoughts exactly. No new equipment or facilities are supposed to be placed on a pole less than 18" (national minimum) from a roadway. The pole pictured is in violation. Where did you get this info from? | |
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| | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| Thats what i understood as well when seeing TWC putting their little boxes up on poles in Sandusky County Ohio. They're waaayyyy up in the air near their line.
But what about when someone coming around the corner can't see the other car and a head one accident. That will be the headline against ATT. | |
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| | | Forget hitting it, i cant wait for those things to blow up again.... this time burning down the pole..... | |
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 Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 |  If pole mounted Vrads aren't on property, does customer have
I understood that AT&T in CT. had to get permission for BUILDING these on customers property. But if they are mounted on an existing telephone pole, does the CT. PUC ruling even apply. And can AT&T avoid getting residents permission?
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
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|  GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Re: If pole mounted Vrads aren't on property, does customer have My guess would be that they don't have to get permission to add it to a pole, which is why they're doing it in part.
Course they mount it just a few feet abovee the ground, so it's technically "on the pole" but just as unsightly.
But as we've seen before, the commentary is "if you want the service you deal with the box" and that's that.
Would like to see them try that here though, private community, no poles, all buried, and the boxes are concealed by hedge or some such thing. Won't be any of this drop it in the front easement on the other side of the sidewalk stuff.
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TheGlobalMind.com | Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? | Trust the instinct to the end, though you can render no reason. Ralph Waldo Emerson
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| | | | Re: If pole mounted Vrads aren't on property, does customer have Do they offer free service or at least some financial compensation? If they offered me free service of their highest tiers then we could talk. | |
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| | | GlobalMindDomino Dude, POWER Systems GuyPremium
join:2001-10-29
Hollywood, FL | Re: If pole mounted Vrads aren't on property, does customer have said by ossito16:Do they offer free service or at least some financial compensation? If they offered me free service of their highest tiers then we could talk. I'd say no because normally they're placing these things on the easements which are already set aside for utility use.
Nevermind that they've been dropping them at the end of folks driveways because that's where the easement is. | |
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|  Old_GrouchDon't just sit there silly DO somethingPremium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | Whether federal, state, or local government or even regulatory agency...the truth depends on which side of it's bi-lingual mouth the collective is speaking from.
Some days, it is a wondrous new information and television provisioner and government should stay out of the way while they work on their boxes whether in or on the ground or hung on the side of a pole like some catch of the day in a back-woods logging camp - - after all, they aren't the fone company with all the regulatory mish-mash that goes with it.
Then there are days when they want to hide under the umbrella and get protection by claiming to be a utility serving the public good and full of right to build in or on the public's rights of way.
Does it apply to "them"? If it waddles, quacks and has web feets.... 
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At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours!
If you paid taxes it's a rebate. If you didn't, it's welfare. | |
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| | Almost the entire sidewalk Those things are huge.
That thing make the Verizon box on the pole behind my house look like a toaster. | |
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 rec9140Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL | Don't see the problem.... Really don't see what the problem here is.
The whole ugly etc. argument can be > /dev/null
Do you want high speed internet or not?
No, you want beautiful poles, fine V.90 dial up for you!
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Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex./ / Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws! | |
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|  GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | Re: Don't see the problem.... said by rec9140:Really don't see what the problem here is. The whole ugly etc. argument can be > /dev/null Do you want high speed internet or not? No, you want beautiful poles, fine V.90 dial up for you! That works fine if you're not a homeowner living in a nice neighborhood. | |
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| | | | Re: Don't see the problem.... Sure glad that our development is far enough out of Austin that it will be years before AT&T decideds to update us and hopefully by then they'll see the errors of their ways and go to FTTH vs. the FTTN garbage. | |
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| | rec9140Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL | said by Goober:
That works fine if you're not a homeowner living in a nice neighborhood.
Your "beauty, nice" neighborhood arguments are falling on deaf ears.
I don't see that as ugly.
Any home I would move into has to have:
1) High Speed Internet, preferably fiber, then crabple, dsl as a last resport
2) NO HOA Nazi's
No HSI, NEXT!
No HSI is a loss to home value in my book. HUGE 60-70% at at a start.
If you have aerial utilities then your going to have stuff on poles, and near the poles. Thats life.
Same with underground, theres still cabinets around.
You have to put this stuff where the technology dictates. It doesn't work, "Oh, can you put that 40 miles out in the desert, because the color clashes with my house." Oh puhlease.
If you only technology if it meets some kind of beauty standard then turn in your cell phone, your HSI. May as well turn in the electric too! Can't have those pesky transformer boxes in your yard, or that annoying cable pedestal.
If your only argument against is beauty, no need to reply.
Some us want our technology and don't want to live in the stone age.
Oh,and before any one ask me to put up or shut up...If VZ wants to put a cabinent in my yard, and it means I get FIOS HSI, I'll help put the thing in! Steaks and beer on me! Let me know the date and time so I can get the food ready!
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Lorem ipsum ei pro stet equidem labores, at enim animal expetenda nec. Ea vix argumentum dissentiunt, usu esse ridens ex./ / Ban all copyright, trademarks, and IP laws! | |
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| | | GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4
1 edit | Re: Don't see the problem.... said by rec9140: said by Goober:
That works fine if you're not a homeowner living in a nice neighborhood.
Your "beauty, nice" neighborhood arguments are falling on deaf ears. I don't see that as ugly. Any home I would move into has to have: 1) High Speed Internet, preferably fiber, then crabple, dsl as a last resport 2) NO HOA Nazi's No HSI, NEXT! No HSI is a loss to home value in my book. HUGE 60-70% at at a start. If you have aerial utilities then your going to have stuff on poles, and near the poles. Thats life. Same with underground, theres still cabinets around. You have to put this stuff where the technology dictates. It doesn't work, "Oh, can you put that 40 miles out in the desert, because the color clashes with my house." Oh puhlease. If you only technology if it meets some kind of beauty standard then turn in your cell phone, your HSI. May as well turn in the electric too! Can't have those pesky transformer boxes in your yard, or that annoying cable pedestal. If your only argument against is beauty, no need to reply. Some us want our technology and don't want to live in the stone age. Oh,and before any one ask me to put up or shut up...If VZ wants to put a cabinent in my yard, and it means I get FIOS HSI, I'll help put the thing in! Steaks and beer on me! Let me know the date and time so I can get the food ready! I dunno. I have cell phones, cable internet, electricity, etc. without having some obtrusive box being visible. That being said, we do have some utility boxes in our easement areas. But, nothing like the ground VRADs shown earlier, or some tumor hanging off a pole.
Look, I really don't care if you like the ghetto. Most people that care about more than beating off to fast internet porn don't. | |
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| | | Reviews:
·WOW Internet and..
| VZ doesnt use boxes. They have a small box on a pole or it is underground. They don't need a huge ass box like ATT
As for wanting HSI id take Cable over having that big ass box in front of my house. I'm glad i live on a private drive so they cant do that to me. They dropped one before my drive way which is harder than hell to see coming out especially since the city allows cars to park on that street as well. And its right at a major intersection.
And yah private drive means i have an HOA its the only thing keeping ATT in check in my area. with that though we have no cable boxes that are on the lawn either. their down the street hidden behind a cluster mail box. | |
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| | | |  DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... Me too. I woudl take cable long before any titantic box in my yard or anywhere near my yard. Those AT&T boxes look like complete ass. At least cable's are short and painted green and they allow you to plant shrubs around them (at least Cox doesn't give a crap). | |
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| | | | | | | Re: Don't see the problem.... Buckeye Cable allows it too. | |
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|  XBL2009------
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL | The main problem being that if they went the fiber route they wouldn't need the massive vrad units in ATT areas. The fiber would need a simple splitter and then be fed to every home. | |
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| | Reviews:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·Bright House
| Re: Don't see the problem.... This is true, but your thinking is still flawed. The cost to the subscriber would go WAY up because that would require a massive overhaul of each and every Central Office AT&T owns.
These units are not just placed where ever AT&T feels like it. 99% of the deployment of Project Light Speed is handled by Marketing. Someone goes on the website and requests it, someone calls in to see if it's available, etc. | |
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| | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... The cost to Verizon's subs isn't going up as a result in fiber deployment. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Don't see the problem.... Certainly not in the 3 states they had to sell off to fund it. | |
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| | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... They didn't have to sell them to fund it. They would have been sold regardless. Those types of transactions happen all the time. | |
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| | | | | | | | Re: Don't see the problem.... So you're saying Verizon sold the states off for non-financial reasons?
When was the last time 3 states were sold? | |
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| | | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Re: Don't see the problem.... said by bogey780:So you're saying Verizon sold the states off for non-financial reasons? When was the last time 3 states were sold? No I'm saying Verizon sold it for non-FiOS reasons. The 3 states were tiny (1.6M lines) and sold to a single entity for just $2.1B. Verizon is spending more than 10X that for Alltel wireless and FiOS deployments cost more than $20 billion.
The fairpoint deal didn't pay for crap. | |
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| | | | | |  en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Have you noticed that Verizon's FiOS has been geared for high density markets ? AT&T's Uverse is similar, except they don't have to trench the streets for fiber runs to every house (yet).
There's 2 thoughts to this:
1. Verizon is attempting to shed itself of copper where FiOS is being deployed, saving on maint costs, and being able to deploy an easy to support high speed internet/tv/voip solution. It costs a lot to deploy, and the gamble is on post completion and competition.
2. AT&T has taken the other side of the fence, reusing existing infrastructure in the last mile, and deploying fiber up to the nieghborhood. Deployment is faster, as a nieghborhood can be fed off one device. Cost to deploy is cheaper, cost to maintain will be higher, due to existing issues with copper (i.e. noise, crosstalk, VRADs and their power consumption/maint.) as well as future scalabilitiy.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
3 edits | Re: Don't see the problem.... AT&T cheaped out and it will bite them in the ass in the end as they end up having to deploy FTTH anyway.
AT&T says as much as they're picking vendors to do it in new construction »www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4···id=23962
I'm convinced they'll come back and replace their hybrid system with FTTH in the existing neighborhoods as well. They'll have to to stay competitive. Bonded DSL can only carry them so far. | |
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| | | | | | | | en102Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26
Valencia, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... I agree. I suspect that since this is a _REALLY_ large scope project, it would take them too long and have investors too nervous to deploy FTTH in one stop, so they're using VDSL as a stop gap. It isn't cheap either, but it buys time, and deployment time is shorter.
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Canada = Hollywood North | |
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| | | | | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... Too bad they couldn't just buy E* and run a fully hybrid system. DBS for excellent video services and ADSL2+ or whatever it is for 25Mb HSI to be used for their HSI and an internet based VOD setup like DirecTV is testing. | |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Don't see the problem.... You know ADSL2+ or VDSL would have still required these cabinets. | |
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| | | | | | | | | DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA | Re: Don't see the problem.... They're doing the cabinets anyway. With DBS for video and 25Mb+ HSI at least the service would be worth a crap. | |
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Bright House
1 edit | That's a standard 52B / ALP-248 cabinet... If you don't know what it takes to get the service from AT&T, shut up and take your "This is ugly" comments to the RANTS forum. The simple fact is AT&T pushes a hand full of fibers from the CO to the RT. It is then split copper from there. Comparing the way Verizon does it to AT&T is apples to oranges. Are either wrong? No.
Can AT&T bury their structures? Yes, CEV's have one small hatch that's visible to the outside world. However, then you have to dig a 20' x 20' hole, bury the CEV, and the cost of the job jumps 10 fold from the original ~$80k cost. Would you rather see the smalller cabinets all over, or would you rather see huge holes all over? Would you rather pay ~$50 for service, or $200 for service? There is a reason most of you don't do jobs like this: because its easier for you to sit behind a computer screen and bitch... without ever offering a solution.
EDIT: Typo, and even the green or brown hatches of a CEV are almost identical in size to a 52b or ALP-248 cabinet. | |
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|  spgGrrrr
join:2001-10-31
NOT Texas! | Re: That's a standard 52B / ALP-248 cabinet... There you go using facts to support your argument. Don't you know that's not allowed here?
Facts are that we live in a civilization that requires infrastructure. Whether it be a power transformer, or a VRAD or whatever the CATV is using, these things are going to crop up in somebody's yard at some point. Some neighborhoods have utilities that are underground and some are aerial. If people aren't complaining because some utility worker wants in their back yard to climb a pole they're complaining about them opening manholes. Geeesh!
People complain about cell towers, air raid/storm sirens, etc. I guess we could use smoke signals, but someone would complain about the pollution. | |
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| DogfatherPremium
join:2007-12-26
Laguna Hills, CA
1 edit | Verizon is spending the billions and Verizon's subs aren't paying $200 for service.
You act as if AT&T cheaping out makes AT&T's rates cheaper.
It doesn't and Verizon is the proof. | |
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| | | The units are just not aesthetically pleasing and are HUGE. Maybe if they weren't at eye level it wouldn't be so bad..
I rather be stuck with cable and their caps than have that crap in front of my house. | |
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| | Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Bright House
| Re: That's a standard 52B / ALP-248 cabinet... If you want to see ugly, I can email you photos of what UGLY can be  How would you like one of the old AT&T 80C, 80D or 80E's in your front yard?! They're a combo of ugly brown and ugly tan!
I just wanted to throw it out there that although I install this stuff for a living, I don't work for AT&T directly. I don't get free service or compensated on ANY of my bills. As a matter of fact, I don't even have their internet since their upload speeds don't match my needs (personal server / ftp). However, I DID offer to sell/rent a 20x20 corner of my lot to install the 52b cabinet that feeds my neighborhood.
Ugly? I can deal with it knowing how the AT&T backbone works. | |
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 wifi4milezBig Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | Not ATT's Uverse! Perhaps I am the only one that noticed this (or read the article), but those pictures dont appear to be Uverse VRADs. The author even says they were taken a few years ago, and the trucks say SBC on them! Unless I am mistaken, SBC didnt deploy Uverse. This means those pictures are of some other (years old) deployment, and that the Uverse pole mounted units could look totally different. If thats the case, I dont really see the relevance here....
Does anyone have any actual photos of an ATT pole mounted deployment? I would be interested to see how they compare to these.
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Have YOU thanked a soldier today? If not, think about doing it as you speak ENGLISH this memorial day. God Bless America, and God Bless our troops.
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| | | Actually SBC started the U-Verse project, although back then they used the code name "Project Lightspeed". | |
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| | Wow Thats... odd, maybe its just for CT. I have a pic of what I thought was a Pole Mounted VRAD I'll post it up, its diffrant than that sort of like what pleekmo posted. Also this unit is now the closest spot of doubling up - places with two vrads. | |
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Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
| why always in front? I don't understand why the vrad cabinets must always be placed in plain view. In my area we have easements for power, sewer, water and gas behind the house. Even my telco service comes from an overhead cable behind the house. Why must the cabinets be beside the road in front of someones house?
Personally I'm all about function. I don't mind the vrads but I understand where people are coming from when they complain about them.
Can't wait to get uverse here. They've had the power meters in the box for months and its still not available.
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see my SBC Review @ »Review of AT&T Midwest by chris123 | |
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| | | Re: why always in front? Because most are out of the way. It's a non-existant problem drummed up by busybodies who don't realize these cabinets have existed for decades. | |
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| Old_GrouchDon't just sit there silly DO somethingPremium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
kudos:1 | The cabinets are placed in utility easements.
Yours happens to be behind the houses.
In other locales, the easement runs in different locations relative to the homes. I have drainage and utility easements on three sides of my lot.
Wherever the easement exists is where at&t will put the boxes.
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At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours!
If you paid taxes it's a rebate. If you didn't, it's welfare. | |
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| | Cabinets - There is more to it than the view....... What about the noise ?? Its not just a splice box..... Its a cheap way to degrade service... fiber to the house is the cleanest..
This is just a cheap way out from a company using its history (AT&T name) to get thier way with the local PUC's. Its not the same anymore.......
Wake up... Its no longer quality ... | |
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| Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·Bright House
| Re: Cabinets - There is more to it than the view....... The noise from these cabinets is VERY low... They're more quiet than the SLC96 80C's (which it'll eventually replace totally) and much more quiet than the MESA4's and 6's. The only thing that'll startle someone nearby is the intrusion alarm it someone opens it. However, that can be disabled within 2 seconds by the tech.
How does this not raise quality? Fiber closer to the house = less copper = better signal all the way around. Is your POTS going to be clearer on a clean ~2,500' pair or 20,000' shot from the CO? Is it not a step into the now by replacing the 35 year old SLC96's with an IP enabled solution? Is it not smart to install something that's capable of handling 384 customers vs. something smaller that's maxed out 2 months after deployment? Which, in return, would require a second [larger] cabinet on an adjacent pole/pad??
These cabinets are here to stay. They may get a little larger or smaller, and/or change color. But AT&T isn't going to change their way of thinking because some PITA's in CT don't like what is necessary to have the service. | |
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| | | | Re: Cabinets - There is more to it than the view....... Those "35 year old" cabinets where designed by an organization that put service and quality at the top of the list. Now you have hardware thats designed and "approved" by the vendor -- and not the LEC.
And what kind of "IP" equipment does it finally tie into? "Enterprise" (not carrier grade) switching equipment. But then , these LEC's get to ride on their history of providing service.
Just wait till you see the triple play level of service on these architectures...... | |
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| | | | "How does this not raise quality?"
I will tell you how - when the fiber connects to equipement that is not made to "Carrier Grade" standards - something that is not really done to well anymore. And the code that resides in this equipment is not "Carrier Grade" either, and also the programming that provisions the "switches"
Just take your phone bill - call one of the numbers on it to see how long it takes to get a person for "support" help | |
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| | | | | Re: Cabinets - There is more to it than the view....... What areyou talking about? These cabinets beat the pants off the 80s for ease of use and flexibility.
And what are talking about with carrier grade? This is Alcatel-Lucet we're talking about for the data. The voice is the same old stuff. | |
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| | | | | | Re: Cabinets - There is more to it than the view....... Those Cabinets are just the tip of the problem -- they are something that you can see --- I mean "Carrier Grade not Cisco grade......
Like I said, there is the code inside, the code that provisions it, and the other boxes that "Alcatel-Lucet" talks to. Who said Alcatel-Lucent is carrier grade?
Juniper ---- Ha | |
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| | Lose/lose situation On one hand you have NIMFY Not In My Front Yard people, on the other hand you have the animal rights activist who say higher boxes with displace woodpeckers, squirrels, bears, etc on the poles.
TIA This Is America  | |
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|  Ebolla
join:2005-09-28
Dracut, MA | Re: Lose/lose situation nah, these give bees a new home which is good, free honey for AT&T tech's  | |
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| | Somebody Please Lend that guy a level... | |
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 KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK | Mounting them at that level.... So close to the street and ground... it's only a matter of time before someone driving a car hits them. | |
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| | | Re: Mounting them at that level.... easy solution, costly for att.
simply dig a pit inground and line with concrete,
place boxes inside and top off with a manhole cover.
let'em live in the sewers. | |
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| | hah So you get overcharged for DSL speed on top of it you get capped. What is the internet coming to? There goes my vision on making a on demand service lol. | |
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