 
Boomerang86
Got FUD?
Premium
join:2002-10-18
Walden, NY
clubs: | 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!! | |
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 | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by Boomerang86  :For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!! IF it works.
How long before the up to 5Mbps translates into something much lower.  | |
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Fox McCloud
Ron Paul Enthusiast
join:2006-07-23
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Verizon BroadbandA..
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? not entirely sure....all that I know is, is that I have spoken with a guy in Cincinnati about his PBL, and he liked the speeds he was getting.
Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*.
just our luck, we'll probably never see this either. | |
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| | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by Fox McCloud :Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*. just our luck, we'll probably never see this either. And this is a surprise how? | |
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Fox McCloud
Ron Paul Enthusiast
join:2006-07-23 | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? it is of no surprise; it's just further proof that nearly all corporations ultimately do not care about the customer at all; all their customers are for is money-trees. | |
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join:2006-11-05
Toms River, NJ | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? yes upload and download speed This means less lag time while video-phone calling your love ones, while playing multi-player games online or sending and receiving data across the web.... imho | |
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join:2006-11-05
Toms River, NJ
| Re: FirstEnergy begins Broadband over Power Line -BPL- trial wit FirstEnergy begins Broadband over Power Line -BPL- trial with Ambient Corporation !!!
IOU FirstEnergy of Akron signed with Ambient to do a BPL trial passing 500 homes in Ohio, Ambient CEO John Joyce told BPLTODAY.com ...
Source: »xrl.us/spnp
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Unleash the opportunities of a SYMMETRICAL 200 Mbps BPL/PLC for “Smart Grid”, IPTV and in-home networking ... commercial opportunities of BPL/PLC with killer applications & services: in-home MDU networking, IPTV and triple-play...!!! | |
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| | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| said by Fox McCloud :Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*. Only technically clueless people (e.g., FCC Commissioners) argue that BPL is applicable to rural environments. It has the same feasility issues in low-density areas as any other broadband technology, if not more so. | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by Fox McCloud :not entirely sure....all that I know is, is that I have spoken with a guy in Cincinnati about his PBL, and he liked the speeds he was getting. Anyway, once again, the technology which should ultimately be for the ruralites gets deployed in an area where there is an overabundance of urbanites...*sigh*. just our luck, we'll probably never see this either. I am going to assume you have never been to the Syracuse area based on those comments. Just to clarify, even Syracuse city proper is more of a suburban area than a "real" city. The downtown area doesnt really have any residential areas, and most people live in houses as opposed to buildings. While Syracuse is certainly not rural, the people living in the suburbs of this "suburb city" for the most part have land and room to spare.
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я люблю медведей! | |
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n2jtx
join:2001-01-13
Glen Head, NY | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? When they get it to Skaneateles, Borodino, Spafford and Homer, I'll believe they have gone rural. 
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I support the right to keep and arm bears. | |
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NoMan
@adelphia.net | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? Don't hold your breath...installing those every-2000-feet repeaters will make such an installation cost-prohibitive unless they can convince everyone in those towns to sign on. | |
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| | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
 ·Comcast Formerly ..
| With National Grid ? I doubt you will see a slow down. They have Carrier class fiber every where. I have worked for them and let me tell you their fiber is definitely top notch, they have a very competent network designer that I have worked closely with.
And It's not even mapped since it's their private fiber, they lease to verizon tmobile and cingular just to name a few, as well as other carriers and Isps.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | | DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? The national power grid is full of carrier-class fiber??? Wow, that is news indeed. | |
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| | | | jtel
join:2005-06-28
Bristol, RI | Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? Every company that has right of way has fiber in place, although it may not be theirs AMTRAK must have a ton of it. | |
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| | | | BosstonesOwn
join:2002-12-15
Everett, MA
clubs:
·Comcast Formerly ..
| said by DufiefData :The national power grid is full of carrier-class fiber??? Wow, that is news indeed. Ah dude not the whole power grid is owned by them. They have carrier class fiber to every substation , stop trying to be sarcastic when you can't do it well.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
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| | Devistater
join:2004-02-13
Clovis, CA | Until a few ppl start using the 5mb up to run servers of some type. Then they will drop the up down like every other company. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by Devistater :Until a few ppl start using the 5mb up to run servers of some type. Then they will drop the up down like every other company. Especially when you consider the neighborhood "backbone" is probably only 20 to 50 Mbs. A couple peer-to-peer file sharers will eat up the backbone bandwidth real quick. | |
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| | patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| said by moonpuppy :said by Boomerang86 :For $29 a month! BOO YAH!!! IF it works. How long before the up to 5Mbps translates into something much lower. Even then for the price its super. | |
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firephoto
KDE
Premium
join:2003-03-18
·Verizon west (ex G..
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by Mactron :When my Kw is Legally on the air when your home... well good luck with your "BOO YAH!!!" Ha Ha Ha !!! Legal would mean you need the Kw as the minimum to carry on your radio communication AND that you weren't intentionally causing interference.
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Location: +48° 5' 23.40", -119° 48' 30.00" | |
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| | | RayW
Premium
join:2001-09-01
Layton, UT
clubs:
·XMission
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by firephoto :Legal would mean you need the Kw as the minimum to carry on your radio communication AND that you weren't intentionally causing interference. As long as he is NOT broadcasting junk, but trying to contact someone where 1 KW could be justified, then it is not intentional, even if he is doing it to mess up BPL. Remember, BPL is still part 15 and has to accept interference even if the FCC rewrote regulations to allow BPL to pollute the airwaves if they make an 'attempt' to notch the interference.
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I am not lost, I find myself every time. | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR | Most BPL technologies these days use adaptive multicarrier modulation, and will just ignore the frequencies you're transmitting on. According the the ARRL, Homeplug-based BPL (like Cinncinati's) don't even use the HAM bands. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by PDXPLT :Most BPL technologies these days use adaptive multicarrier modulation, and will just ignore the frequencies you're transmitting on. According the the ARRL, Homeplug-based BPL (like Cinncinati's) don't even use the HAM bands. They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier.
I know of only one system that has hardware filters on the front end to reject ham band frequencies. The rest are just software filters on the output of the units to provide FCC-mandated notching. | |
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| | | | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by rf_engineer :They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier. In other words, it's easy to design a bad implementation; no argument here.
I believe ARRL has done some testing at their facility, and found that operation was possible, at least for some devices, near their transmitting tower. So the blanket assertion that all BPL would be rendered impossible by the presence of a full power HAM transmitter does not seem to be the case. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: 5 mbps SYMMETRICAL?? said by PDXPLT :said by rf_engineer :They can ignore frequencies someone is transmitting on, however unless the equipment has a hardware filter on the front end to reject the frequency, it's going to get a signal that's perhaps 60 - 80 dB higher than what the front end amplifier is designed for. That would likely cause intermodulation and interrupt the intended signals. In a worst case scenario, it would let the smoke out of the amplifier. In other words, it's easy to design a bad implementation; no argument here. I believe ARRL has done some testing at their facility, and found that operation was possible, at least for some devices, near their transmitting tower. So the blanket assertion that all BPL would be rendered impossible by the presence of a full power HAM transmitter does not seem to be the case. True, though the system in operation at ARRL is the only vendor that has the hardware filters that I'm aware of. I doubt others are going to implement hardware filters as I don't think any vendors have even committed to making ham band (software filter) notches turned on by default. Anecdotal evidence has shown instances where as little as 5 watts can disrupt some systems. However, I do agree that a blank assertion isn't correct. The system at ARRL operates in the vicinity of several kilowatt transmitters. | |
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| | | | | W1RFI
join:2003-05-12
Burlington, CT
| I have seen a wide range of immunity in BPL equipment we have tested. The Motorola implementation operated with nearby 1000-watt transmitters on multiple bands.
ARRL hasn't looked at the immunity of other HomePlug systems. Motorola uses additional filtering to improve its emissions, but immunity improvements come along for the ride.
In a few systems tested, nearby transmitters with power as low as 5 watts took the system down. In one system I tested, it took it down hard, and the BPL repeaters had to auto-reboot and reconnect themselves.
But we took that testing one step farther. First, most of the immunity done to date was done with continuous carriers. So in that system, we took a look at different combinations, and found the following:
With in-band testing, using the same spectrum as the BPL system (even if transmitting in the notches), 5 watts of carrier took it down. The system had to autoboot.
Transmitting outside its used spectrum, however, showed immunity to 175 watts or so.
We also transmitted with single-sideband voice and on/off keyed CW signals. In those cases, though power >5 watts slowed it down, the system did not hang up. At 1500 watts of voice or OOK CW, the system slowed but didn't hang up.
The bottom line is that although there were some immunity issues, when tested using multiple modes and in-band vs out-of-band signals, the result was not devastating. A 5-watt CB signal would have taken it down hard. But a 50-watt low-band VHF signal would not, if they were not using the same spectrum. A 5 watt Amateur digital signal would cause it problems, but a 1500 watt voice single sideband signal would cause only latency and speed problems.
The latter could be quite significant, as applications such as live streaming video or voice-over-internet-protocol would probably suffer from intermittency.
I am not identifying the manufacturer involved because we had a verbal non-disclosure agreement with them, and because I know that they took these results and have already made improvements to their product. I want to re-test the product, but it would not be useful for ARRL to publish data on a product that is almost certainly going to be better.
Still, the results with "real" vs just carrier signals is an interesting and useful additional data point.
Ed Hare
ARRL Lab
225 Main St
Newington, CT 06111
Tel: 860-594-0318
Email: w1rfi@arrl.org | |
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| | | | moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Does anyone have any idea which equipment this trail will be using? | |
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wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY | WOW, that is an awesome price. If I still lived there I would certainly buy it. | |
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Transmaster
Onward Through The Fog
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY
| Once again BPL pops up BPL is like a stinkhorn mushroom it keeps popping up in places and causes a stink. 
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The older I get the more I prefer the company of my dogs over that of man kind. | |
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| tthnow
join:2006-06-07
Oakland, CA | Re: Once again BPL pops up that look like my.....errr.... | |
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Fatal Vector
join:2005-11-26 | Re: Once again BPL pops up
Gee! $57 for phone service! Jump right on it! | |
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Budd Lake, NJ
| said by tthnow :that look like my.....errr.... See a urologist immediately! | |
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XBL2007
join:2001-01-03
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| The phone service and BPL is $56.90 quote:
New Visions advertises a price of $28.95 per month for high-speed Internet service (up to 5 megabits per second, upstream and downstream). If customers combine Internet with phone service, the monthly bill is $56.90 a month.
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Look who's talking. You haven't even peeled potatoes for the Military..........REPLY: Neither have Dick Cheney or Karl Rove !!! | |
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dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ | BPL I'm not crazy about this but I could learn to like 5mbps UPLOAD for $28
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You can never be too rich, too thin or have too much Bandwidth | |
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morecompetition
@shawcable.net | They'll still bitch BPL could be North American wide, offer 100/100 lines for good prices and people will still bitch about this tech.
Im curious as to what the latency times are. | |
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aaron8301
I can't get myself to go away.
join:2005-01-03
Clarkston, WA
·CableOne
| If only I could get it I'd pay $100/mo for a 5mbps symmetrical connection. I love my fixed wireless (I can run Vonage over it!), but at 512k symmetrical for $40/mo, it's no steal.
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"I invented it, Bill made it famous." --David Bradley, the inventor of Ctrl+Alt+Del. | |
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asdfdfdfdf
@Level3.net | It looks like $56 total for bundle, not additional I'd jump on an opportunity like this. Very impressed with the pricing. | |
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See 6 replies to this post |
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bmaasjr320
join:2006-03-14
Vancouver, WA
| My question about BPL is? My question about BPL is?
At what point in the local power grid, does it go from fiber to wire. Would it start at local neighborhood electrical substation site. Say where 115 Kv power is stepped down to the feeder line level.
Also what type of carrier wave. In the electrical power system is being used. And what type of impact does it have MF and HF bands. This is where AM radio and HAM radio is found. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: My question about BPL is? said by bmaasjr320 :My question about BPL is? At what point in the local power grid, does it go from fiber to wire. Would it start at local neighborhood electrical substation site. Say where 115 Kv power is stepped down to the feeder line level. I've heard the substation would be the typical point the fiber (or telco facility) to wire transition would occur. However the systems I saw in my area were using wireless to bring it in to the neighborhood or were dropping telco facilities at a pole right in the neighborhood where the feedpoint was.
Also what type of carrier wave. In the electrical power system is being used. And what type of impact does it have MF and HF bands. This is where AM radio and HAM radio is found.
DS2 based systems use OFDM with carriers about every 1.2 khz. If I recall correctly, Homeplug based systems are spread spectrum.
Here's an intro to frequency allocations:
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_frequencies | |
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| | PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| Re: My question about BPL is? said by rf_engineer :DS2 based systems use OFDM with carriers about every 1.2 khz. If I recall correctly, Homeplug based systems are spread spectrum. DS2's spacing is not that close (no one's is). You can get the spec. they use from the European OPERA project website (don't recall the URL).
All HomePlug based systems have been OFDM, and include mandatory HAM band notches. There have been some old single-vendor BPL systems that used unnotched spread spectrum. DS2-based silicon makes the HAM notches only optional, that the equipment vendors don't enable them due to the performance hit. Since almost all BPL trials in the U.S. have used one of these latter two types of systems (the deployment in Cinncinati being a notable exception), they've given BPL technology the notorious reputation for harmful interference with Amateur Radio. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA
| Re: My question about BPL is? said by PDXPLT :said by rf_engineer :DS2 based systems use OFDM with carriers about every 1.2 khz. If I recall correctly, Homeplug based systems are spread spectrum. DS2's spacing is not that close (no one's is). You can get the spec. they use from the European OPERA project website (don't recall the URL). Ooops, I guess I should have said they drop a carrier about every 1.2 khz. That's what you'll hear on the air. Those are actually sidebands of the carriers which are spaced considerably further apart. | |
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jgkolt
Premium
join:2004-02-21
Lakewood, OH
clubs: | 5mbps upload If they can offer that upload i think they will make a very good inroad on the internet service market. They are offering what everyone is asking, listening to the customers, and catching my attention. Way to go | |
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Karl Bode
News Guy
join:2000-03-02 |  (topic offline) BPL for the unserved!
This entire topic was removed, either temporarily, or permanently.
stated reason was: spam | |
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alldaymonopoly
@optonline.net | i am paying $49.95/mo for 1 Mbps CABLE upload ! thanks for the choice with BPL coming slowly but stringly !!! | |
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| BPL 200 Mbps
join:2006-11-05
Toms River, NJ
| Re: i am paying $49.95/mo for 1 Mbps CABLE upload ! That`s a fact. How much more paying for DSL or Fiber access with less than ! Mbps upload speed ???
I guess as competition gets stronger, the rates will go down. Utilities are not spending for electrical wires that were already BPL-ready but to the gears to power BPL.
Remember these were equal now... CABLE, DSL and BPL !!!
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Unleash the commercial opportunities of BPL/PLC with killer applications & services: a “Smart Grid”, IPTV, in-home MDU networking and TRIPLE-PLAY: INTERNET, IPTV and VOICE/VIDEO IP. | |
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rf_engineer
join:2003-08-04
USA | Re: i am paying $49.95/mo for 1 Mbps CABLE upload ! Looks like you and alldaymonopoly went to the same school of punctuation | |
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| | | new2fios
join:2006-07-20
Camillus, NY
| Re: i am paying $49.95/mo for 1 Mbps CABLE upload ! The areas in question all have access to inexpensive cable (Roadrunner) and Verizon FIOS, so why the power company thinks there is a real need for a third provider is beyond me. I am a local of this area with a FIOS subscription and being an amateur radio operator I am certainly not looking forward to this deployment which will surely destroy the HF bands as we know them. No deployment of BPL anywhere has succeeded without ruinous interference with all users of the HF and low VHF spectrum. This includes amateur radio, SW listeners (yes, there are still many people enjoying the SW bands) and even some public safety organizations. | |
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Powerline Broadband in Syracuse
