Price Wars Part Deux?Providers extend summer bargains ( old news - 06:15PM Monday Jun 30 2003) tags: dsl · pricesDiscussion is hot in several of our forums over looming summertime price & package changes among the larger DSL providers. Verizon's price cuts last month had many analysts predicting a price-war between DSL and cable. Most of the cable industry shrugged off the price cuts, or were seemingly more concerned with Verizon's move to offer free Wi-Fi service as a bundle component. Cable providers have the lead, they usually offer faster speeds, and for the moment don't feel threatened. There are some cable customers who are taking Verizon's recent speed cuts seriously. Primarily however, the price cuts seemed to have struck off a much smaller battle among DSL providers, many of whom are now extending existing deals as opposed to significantly lowering rates anew. SBC announced just last week that the company would be extending its $29.95 monthly fee for DSL in most markets until August 31. The deal was originally scheduled to end today. The primary motivation is to gain the attention of potential dial-up converts waiting for the right price. There's also a growing need to differentiate themselves with additional features. BellSouth exemplified this push with some recent package modifications, and it's the goal of many providers looking at doing business now that most early adopters have been satisfied (or at least get service). Even AOL, whose prices have traditionally been higher because of their "walled content garden of eden" justification, has been forced to lower some prices. The company has dropped their DSL price-tag 27% to $39.95 a month, but apparently only when SBC and Verizon AOL users threaten to go to their local telco for service. New Southwestern Bell customers (or those willing to recommit to new one-year contracts) were offered their own set of price incentives for the month of June only.
Related:- Hey NY Times: Broadband Coverage Gaps Are Not 'Hooey'
- Verizon Reports Largest FiOS Additions To Date
- AT&T Raises Price For Cheapest Tier
- Verizon Expands 7Mbps DSL Availability
- AT&T Announces U-Verse Enhancements
- AT&T Offers 'Buy Two, Get One Free' U-Verse Bundle
- Sonic.net Drops Prices On ADSL2+ Service
- FCC To Investigate Special Access Pricing
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Doesn't Matter to Me These so called price wars are useless to me in that most of the providers are offering the discounts to new customers. Existing customers get shafted and even if you changed providers most of them would hit you with an early withdrawl penalty much like a cellular provider would for backing out of the contract early. When the providers start offering campaigns that benefit existing users then I may take interest but for now the price wars are irrelevant.
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A good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution.»www.digitalconsumer.org | |
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major marco
Res Firma Mitescere Nescit
Premium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA
clubs:
| Re: Doesn't Matter to Me said by Hall  :
Venture over to the Earthlink forum. Many of us existing customers got our DSL price reduced to $29.95 - $33.30/month just by calling and asking for a pricematch to the local telco's pricing. Have you tried ??
No, I haven't even tried because I'm locked into a contract with DSLExtreme and if I breach the contract then I get hit with a penalty.
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A good scapegoat is almost as good as a solution.»www.digitalconsumer.org | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA | Verizon Online cut my prices (existing customer) while like you Comcast wouldn't think of offering me their $19.95 for 6 month deal. | |
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Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH | Hmm... not true in my case; Not only did I, as an existing customer, get the new Verizon price, they did it automatically for me - I hadn't even called them yet about it. | |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| said by major marco :
When the providers start offering campaigns that benefit existing users then I may take interest but for now the price wars are irrelevant.
So, in plain English, "Attention everybody! I'm not interested!" Is that about it?
Now why didn't I think of that? | |
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ravital
Just Another Pesky Independent Nh Voter
Premium
join:2001-07-19
Merrimack, NH
| Re: Hey, it's Yoda! said by major marco :
Still following me around BBR trying to prove that you aren't trying to one up me, eh, Yoda? Yep. You convince me of your indifference every single time you have some nugget of wisdom to offer with your troll like comments. Wow! Aren't you so apathetic. You are SO uncaring that you have taken it upon yourself to follow me around no matter where I go on this forum
Matter of fact, I only posted a reply to this message, I know you're very prolific on very many forums. So if you want to call responding to ONE message "following you around no matter where you go" you are only confirming your bloated sense of self-importance. Oops, I mean, self-impotance.
To the point (I know you'd rather have a root canal than address the point, but here goes anyway), you chided me so vehemently for redundancy, and yet you make a very redundant statement like "Hey everybody, I don't care" or words to that effect. I'm just trying to learn from your own wisdom. I think I got it now.
Ah finahly believe ah undehstan redondundancy. It's very subliminable. Thank you much, Bufón Borracho!
[I can just imagine it... You land in Antarctica, on a crisp Antarctic summer day in January, M-16 in your hands, and proclaim to a crowd of 10,000 penguins, "In the name of the United States!" and then, Tatatatatatatata! What a beautiful image.]
said by major marco :
and make a comment about MY comment.
It's called participation on a debate board, Stronzo. But I should have know you would believe I was not entitled to that. Your entire life has been about one rule for you and another one for everyone else. You're an open book. And a pretty trashy one too. | |
| Sarge_0321
join:2002-06-27
San Diego, CA | No Doubt Make the prices low and keep them low.
Just offer low speed 384-128/64 DSL service for $19.95.
They'll rake it not only customers but bucks as well. They can always upgrade later.
Volume sales! Just like Walmart! | |
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Dezbend
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-20 | Sprint Sprint also extended its second quarter promotion into the summer for a "limited time"
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If it is not recorded, it simply does not exist. | |
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TXTigerman
Monopolies Kill
join:2000-12-21
Beeville, TX
| Well, whoopty do.... It doesn't do any good to throw these crazy price decreases at people if they can't get it in the first place!
As has been proven time and time again....
It's still the availability stupid!
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If you think that's funny, wait until you see the BILL! | |
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gsdan
Boom Boom
join:2000-07-12
Milwaukee, WI
| Re: Well, whoopty do.... How right you are.
DSL situation at present.Have RR for 3yrs (soon to be EL.They won't come to me or 20K plus other potential customers.Screw Em!
Cable is very good here.
Cudahy,WI 53110
Phone: 414-XXX-XXXX
about 21030 feet.
Wire center (CO)MILWWI42
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I am an Atheist,and I was in a fox-hole. | |
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Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH
| Umm... yes... and your point is...???
Every technology has availability limitations - even dial-up (My first dial-up cost me a bundle - because I needed to make long-distances calls for it... usually, I simply used a local BBS to get newsgroups and e-mail, but for browsing, I had no choice... then again, I hardly ever browsed back then, since it cost me to do so)...
So... uhh... sure.. If you can't get cable 'modem' service, either, the prices are of little relavence. If you can't get Sattelite... if you can't get Wireless... if... well, you get the picture yet?
I get DSL fine where I am, as do many other residents in my area. To be honest, I was shocked when I heard that Verizon had put DSL in our local CO's, with us being relatively small towns in this area... but they did. | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA
|  Shameful
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"Lunches don't get free just because you don't see the prices on the menu. And economists don't get popular by reminding people of that." --Thomas Sowell | |
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Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH
| Re: Shameful Speak for yourself.
The Verizon price change came with no such 'catch'... no contract, no bundling (actually, there's a FURTHER $5/mo discount with a bundle like Veriations/errr... that new thing.. but $5 is hardly a big deal)... no extra fees.. nothing.
So... uhhh... I guess that theory flies out the window, too. | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: Shameful Verizon requires that you must have residential local telephone service from Verizon (that's bundling for those of you in West Virginia) in order to get DSL service. Don't want local (DSL over a dry pair) or want DSL but a different local provider...Verizon will deny you residential DSL service. I'm not sure if they'll due dry pair installs with their business accounts (they wouldn't for me). And SBC does require 12 month commitment to get the special rate. With VoL, I also had to sign a 12 month commitment with a severe cancellation penalty.
Guess that theory just flew out the window.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-01 00:32:37] | |
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Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH
| Re: Shameful Hmm.. and guess what? Charter and CAS (both of the cable companies in our area) require that... hold on to your hat here... you have cable TV service in order to get their cable modem at all, too.
To be honest, though, I don't consider it to be 'bundling' when I need the service, flat out, to begin with. Maybe there are plenty of people who use nothing but a cell phone, but I've found some difficulty in plugging up a fax machine to a cell phone...
But since I'm not the omni-potent being you apparently think you are, I'll admit I made a semantic error there; Technically, it's "bundled"... but so is the cable modem service available to me, here.
However, there still is no committment, no setup fee, no monthly charges for equipment (saves me $60 a year over Charter alone)... I'm sorry if VoL told you that you needed to sign a contract to get the rate... sounds like you had a salesguy who was trying to rip you off or something.. might want to do something about that, since everything I've seen makes it pretty clear there is no contract... oh.. and the 'severe' cancellation penalty? You have to return the modem that they sent you and let you use free, or they charge you $125.. unless you've had your service for 12 months or more, in which case the modem is yours. Yup.. that's pretty darn severe.
I note you didn't say a thing about the other items... and if you did, you'd be wrong anyway... so you got one point, but seems the cable companies lose that one already... and last I checked, people 'need' a telephone before they 'need' cable TV (in fact, we don't have cable TV any longer because of our extreme dissatisfaction with our service) | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA | Re: Shameful And this has what to do with your claim that Verizon doesn't require bundling? | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Verizon or any other LEC can require that you get voice if you want their DSL...that's how they choose to bundle their products.
Verizon or any other ILEC CAN NOT refuse a dry pair if a CLEC orders and pays for one. The problem is, Covad, just about the only CLEC worth noting, won't do ADSL on a dedicated circuit anymore. Mostly for cost reasons...Covad has its own money problems...and they don't want to pay hundreds for a dry pair only to make $39.95 per month from a consumer ADSL account. Back in the day, Covad, Rythms and Northpoint all did ADSL the right way...on its own circuit.
Here's the deal. LECs want to sell DSL to consumers and businesses. They go to consumers, most of who don't want to pay more than $50, give or take a few. They sell the ADSL to consumers. Now, they go to a business, and the smart business man wants to know why he has to pay $149.99 for the same product that he can get at his house for 1/3 the cost. So...the LECs sales guy tells him that ADSL is a "consumer grade" product, unstable and unsuitable for a business application. Of course, that is total hogwash. So the business owner buys more expensive SDSL. All SDSL is done on a dedicated circuit. The LEC makes more in MRC for an SDSL product...and can usually get a multi year agreement this guaranteeing revenue from the customer.
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: Shameful He made the claim that Verizon didn't require bundling with his service. I merely pointed out that he was required to have local telephone service. It wasn't about the CLEC's ability to get a dry pair. And what you consider force, I consider substantiation.
I don't take anyone's word for anything. If people have a problem with that...it's their problem...not mine.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-01 11:05:58] | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Shameful Man...sometimes it's ok to just let it go and not post a response....really...we won't hold it against you!
I already told you that you know a lot of stuff....fine line between that and being a "know it all"
See the "Upon reflection, I do not wish to post" link on the bottom....use it every now and then.
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::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::
»www.kapilville.com
[text was edited by author 2003-07-01 11:35:24] | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: Shameful So now you're the arbiter who how can participate in a thread or not? Cool. BTW...you are free to skip these threads at any time...or at least make the attempt to stay on topic.
[text was edited by author 2003-07-01 11:30:52] | |
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LegoPower77
Abecedarian
Premium
join:2002-08-03
Arlington, VA | Hey, don't mess with him . . . he knows everything. | |
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asdfdfdf
@xtraport.net
| Re: Shameful Why do these arguments always devolve into sniping and personal attacks?
I feel its only fair, since I told oliphant that I felt he crossed the line with you in the other thread, that I tell you that you are crossing the line here. It only makes the entire site look petty and small when people read these personal slurs.
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In general these pricing experiments are good for consumers. Prices clearly have to come down for the market to continue to grow. No one experiment will satisfy everyone. I wish that these companies would simply make the leap and permanently lower the price without a lot of added bs. It is correct to say that many of these deals are short term, with a lot of small print and added requirements. Clearly they are going to have to stop playing games at some point, it is just a question of how long they will drag this on before finally simply lowering the service price permanently.
To those who say they should focus on expanding coverage, I don't really disagree but the fact remains that they aren't going to do that until penetration rates increase in markets where they have already spent money. Lower prices will increase take up and help get us out of this slump that we have been stuck in. That helps to bring closer the day that the rest of us get money/infrastructure thrown our way.
There is a serious concern on the part of other players that the wholesale price is not dropping as retail does. The retail ilec prices of some of these packages are very close to the rates isps are paying.
This concern shouldn't be dismissed.
Nevertheless, it is a continued frustration that isps are not preparing for the inevitable. It has been painfully obvious for a long time now that this government has largely abandoned the idea of a competitive telecom market and they have abandoned the ta96 framework that tried to bring that about. They are not going to replace ta96 with a revised or fine tuned plan, they are simply going to let concentration continue. All the trends point to the fact that the incumbents are going to dominate the isp market. If most isps continue on their present course they are going to die.
The small players continue to fight battles that are lost. Energies need to be turned toward finding ways around the wireline bottleneck, not toward trying to extract the government's head from it's ass(which is clearly not working).
Why aren't small isps moving toward wireless? I realize smaller companies don't have r&d budgets but why aren't there alliances, of some kind, being formed to spread research costs around and develop more aggressive timelines for field testing of wireless approaches? Why are these companies not aggressively propagandizing for wi-fi and doing test seeding in neighborhoods that the incumbents have no interest in? What ever happened to free space optics? No one company can do this on its own but a more coordinated effort toward some standard could have an effect. Instead of lobbying about the lost war, lobby the fcc to get off their duffs and move forward with revising spectrum policy.
I wish people presently involved in the isp business would explain why these things are not happening. I understand some of the risks involved, but we are reaching a point where playing it safe means being stuck in a deep grave that one can't climb out of. Could someone explain why these things aren't possible, if that is the case? | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| said by LegoPower77 :
Hey, don't mess with him . . . he knows everything.
No, just more than you. | |
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kapil
The Kapil
join:2000-04-26
Chicago, IL
| Re: Shameful LOL. I agree that you are more knowledgable than the average Joe...but also more forceful with your opinions! ...and you have been wrong several times ...but I admire the fact that you take the time to give back to the internet community.
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::: Do, or do not, there is no try:::»www.kapilville.com | |
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ReThink
@208.6.x.x | Think about it Look up the meaning of a Monopoly. There isn't one in this market. | |
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Tomek
Premium
join:2002-01-30
Brooklyn, NY | Re: Think about it They hold CO and require CLECs to pay for the usage.
The money what they get from CLEC, they can use to lower prices.
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There is no point of living if You can't feel the life. | |
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oliphant5
Got Identity?
Premium
join:2003-05-24
Corona, CA
| Re: Think about it said by Tomek :
They hold CO and require CLECs to pay for the usage.
The money what they get from CLEC, they can use to lower prices.
Not only that but they lower their prices while holding high the prices to the CLECs making them have to compete with a price point that is virtually impossible to match. Such was the case in 2000 when Verizon did this. »www.isp-planet.com/politics/veri···tor.html | |
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Marilla
I Am My Own Arbiter
Premium
join:2002-12-06
Belpre, OH | Well, if this is a monopoly, then maybe monopolies aren't such a bad thing.
Then again, I seem to recall switching TO Verizon from a competing company (Charter).. so... hmmm... | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI
| I don't know if this qualifies, but I haven't paid more than $17/month for POTS service AFTER TAXES AND ALL SBC ACCESS FEES for the last 2 months and clearly won't average more than that for at least the next 8. Seeing as nobody wants to invest 1 penny in my phone line, I guess this is the best I'll get. SBC will also offer me $12/month off their $29.95(before taxes and SBC ACCESS FEES) economy solution package for 1 year + a $75 credit after the 3rd month. If I switch after the 6 month, I figure my average price for those 6 months will be $17. Are they making a profit on that? Are they just trying to make sure no CLEC makes a profit? Don't worry, MCI won't for my 2 months. I'm getting paid $12 to take AT&T for 1 month(AFTER TAXES AND FEES), and getting paid $2 to take Talk America for 1 month. My average price for the next 8 months will be around $11/month(AFTER TAXES AND FEES)!!!!!
Oh yeah, I won't be spending $1 on internet service during that time either. | |
| 2farfromCO7
join:2000-10-14
Farmington, MI | Maybe when the price gets to $0 ,and they still can't beat cable, then the RBOCs will realize that availability and deployment(or lackthereof) are the problems with DSL and not marketing. | |
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hayood jablome
@capax.alerondi | dsl sbc is offering re-rates, so you get 29.95 if you already had sbc. i don't like sbc but it's the best deal i've seen. | |
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