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Protect IP Act Passes Senate Judiciary Committee
Most of Whom Likely Have no Idea What it Does

Lawmakers loyal to the entertainment industry have twice now tried (and failed) to pass COICA (or the Combating Online Infringements and Counterfeits Act), a new bill that would create a website blacklist and give the Department of Justice the ability to censor or shut down certain websites loosely deemed "dedicated to infringing activities." After repeated failures, lawmakers cooked up a replacement for the bill dubbed the "Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act" or the.... PROTECT IP Act, which this week unanimously passed the Senate Judiciary Committee. Techdirt notes that this unanimous passage comes despite criticism by librarians, human and digital rights groups (pdf), and leading DNS experts who state that several parts of this law could break Internet functionality by tinkering with DNS for the benefit of the entertainment industry's bottom line.

Update: It looks like Senator Wyden has placed a hold on the bill.
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gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound

Member

This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

I posted this on the bill on another site news and here are my thoughts again.posted yesterday

I was just talking with my lawyer today about this bill and tol him to look into it.Yesterday I called up all reps in Maine where I live to complain about this bill and state the following:

1st point: I am a long time artist who has played in bands since 1972 and my big meat hammer band is maine's oldest punk band.i formed it in 1989.i grew up around boston and was a part of its original 1970's punk scene.i have pput out over 6 lp's and have no desire ever to sign with any big labels.i am INDIE and love it

2nd point: i am freely sharing my art on TPB & public trackers.this is my way of advertising and the way of 1,000's of other musical acts that are INDIE.

3rd point: i am sharing more than one band i played in freely.big meat hammer,the gorehounds,the transplants,and the lynn rebels

4th point: censoring the internet will hurt me and my abaility to promote my art as well as hurt 1,000's of other bands or artists who do the same thing i do

5th point: if this bill passes i will have my lawyer and contact the ACLU and i will put togerther a nice big lawsuit.a ton of bands know me and have known of me for years.some call me the grand-dad punker since i was there at the beginning.

today i told my lawyer even if we could not win a case like this we should do it anywyas for the press coverage to make the big greedy asshole MAFIAA look even worse than they already look.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

1 edit

Transmaster

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

Gorehound excellent posting, and I will be looking up your band to add to my collection.
www.bigmeathammer.com/)
Indie bands are where most of the real talent are these days. What I think we are seeing is the laying down of a marker to obtain campaign money for 2012 from the entertainment industry. If you look at past campaigns you will see the same thing in a host of other industries the fleecing of money. Such bills will usually go nowhere, however constant vigilance is required to make sure of this fact.
talz13
join:2006-03-15
Avon, OH

talz13

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

I think this bill got more traction because it had a catchy abbreviation.

COICA? WTF?

PROTECT IP? We must protect our IP!
Cobra11M
join:2010-12-23
Mineral Wells, TX

Cobra11M to gorehound

Member

to gorehound
said by gorehound:

I posted this on the bill on another site news and here are my thoughts again.posted yesterday

I was just talking with my lawyer today about this bill and tol him to look into it.Yesterday I called up all reps in Maine where I live to complain about this bill and state the following:

1st point: I am a long time artist who has played in bands since 1972 and my big meat hammer band is maine's oldest punk band.i formed it in 1989.i grew up around boston and was a part of its original 1970's punk scene.i have pput out over 6 lp's and have no desire ever to sign with any big labels.i am INDIE and love it

2nd point: i am freely sharing my art on TPB & public trackers.this is my way of advertising and the way of 1,000's of other musical acts that are INDIE.

3rd point: i am sharing more than one band i played in freely.big meat hammer,the gorehounds,the transplants,and the lynn rebels

4th point: censoring the internet will hurt me and my abaility to promote my art as well as hurt 1,000's of other bands or artists who do the same thing i do

5th point: if this bill passes i will have my lawyer and contact the ACLU and i will put togerther a nice big lawsuit.a ton of bands know me and have known of me for years.some call me the grand-dad punker since i was there at the beginning.

today i told my lawyer even if we could not win a case like this we should do it anywyas for the press coverage to make the big greedy asshole MAFIAA look even worse than they already look.

I hear ya, all this bill is, is pretty much censorship, or communism at its best. But heck look at how the country is, its a big cash grab at the moment with the big guys taking everything, I for one think its time for all of us to fight this congress in the best way possible!!! PROTEST, and if they want to throw us in jail for that, then ill have my passport ready cause thats all this country is about now
hottboiinnc4
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH

hottboiinnc4

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

can still be tossed in jail regardless of the passport. And after all; the Feds can charge you with something else than protesting unlawfully. If they decide to define you as a threat- guess what; off to Cuba you go like the Mobster from Chicago.

JasonOD
@comcast.net

JasonOD to gorehound

Anon

to gorehound
You don't like labels or want/need them to distribute your music, I get it. But why not find another method to distribute your work that doesn't involve getting mixed up with illegal sites/downloads? You have to realize that using what perhaps is the worlds biggest IP theft enabling site (TPB) to distribute your works is a risky proposition.

thedragonmas
Premium Member
join:2007-12-28
Albany, GA
Netgear R6300 v2
ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas

Premium Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by JasonOD :

You don't like labels or want/need them to distribute your music, I get it. But why not find another method to distribute your work that doesn't involve getting mixed up with illegal sites/downloads? You have to realize that using what perhaps is the worlds biggest IP theft enabling site (TPB) to distribute your works is a risky proposition.

torrents are not an illegal act, TPB is debateable. as long as hes sharing his own content he is doing NOTHING illegal. with that mentality why are you using a computer, after all, they are used for illegal acts.

what hes doing is perfectly legal, torrents came about as a way of bandwidth sharing. if you want to pay his webhosting bill to be able to handle direct downloads, go a head. but torrents are an economical solution to big data bills from webhosts. (oh, sure theres some cheap ones. but the point still stands.)

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
said by JasonOD :

You don't like labels or want/need them to distribute your music, I get it. But why not find another method to distribute your work that doesn't involve getting mixed up with illegal sites/downloads? You have to realize that using what perhaps is the worlds biggest IP theft enabling site (TPB) to distribute your works is a risky proposition.

Isn't this a matter of choice. I see Meat Hammer apparently does not have any thing on iTunes which would be nice but how a band markets themselves is totally up to them. What you don't realize is thanks the way the music distribution system is rigged there is a whole world of music out there we never see Stateside. It isn't available for purchase in any form. I collect movie, TV, Show, Anima, etc sound tracks. The vast majority of them are not marketed stateside at all, yet many of them have some of the best music you have ever heard in many ways better then the movie they support, this is especially true for Anima.

ArrayList
DevOps
Premium Member
join:2005-03-19
Mullica Hill, NJ

ArrayList

Premium Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by Transmaster:

What you don't realize is thanks the way the music distribution system is rigged there is a whole world of music out there we never see Stateside. It isn't available for purchase in any form. I collect movie, TV, Show, Anima, etc sound tracks. The vast majority of them are not marketed stateside at all, yet many of them have some of the best music you have ever heard in many ways better then the movie they support, this is especially true for Anima.

I'll second that! Entertainment in the US is mediocre at best. The real talent is hidden because of the devices already in place. Remove them and you will be in awe with how much great music and art there is in this world.
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to Transmaster

Member

to Transmaster
Big Meat Hammer and my art wants nothing to do with APPLE.I do not like the company and we are perfectly OK doing things my own way.
the only reason why i give away my mp3's is we will get some Cd's sold and then you can hear us in a better sound quality than mp3's or apple's sound codec.
Chubbysumo
join:2009-12-01
Duluth, MN
Ubee E31U2V1
(Software) pfSense
Netgear WNR3500L

Chubbysumo to Transmaster

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to Transmaster
said by Transmaster:

Isn't this a matter of choice. I see Meat Hammer apparently does not have any thing on iTunes which would be nice but how a band markets themselves is totally up to them. What you don't realize is thanks the way the music distribution system is rigged there is a whole world of music out there we never see Stateside. It isn't available for purchase in any form. I collect movie, TV, Show, Anima, etc sound tracks. The vast majority of them are not marketed stateside at all, yet many of them have some of the best music you have ever heard in many ways better then the movie they support, this is especially true for Anima.

The reason there are many artists NOT on iTunes is because apple takes 70% of all money made(30% profit), so its not that good of a deal for music sellers if you dont sell tons, AND, you have to pay to get in too(like $2000 to be listed, and $20000 to be "featured" or advertised). Dont believe me, look up the terms and conditions on apples own site. Also, its Anime(sort for Japanese animation). The reason you see lots of that on torrents is because A) its a cheap distribution method, and B) Many shows from foreign countries are NOT licensed by any company in the US for distribution, so you can download them in the US with no consequence because the Japanese company is not going to come across to where they are not trying to make money. many sites remove shows once they have been licensed in the US to encourage supporting the US Anime licensing industry. I wont go into how SLOW the US Anime industry is tho, as they are sometimes YEARS behind, but that is for another time.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

OK Chubbysumo so you hate iTunes, your choice. You are flat wrong about the percentage Apple/iTunes gets a 30% cut.

Read here: »www.businessinsider.com/ ··· s-2010-1

As for getting stuff on iTunes and other online services there are outfits such as below. I know the music business and these digital music services are a hell of a lot better deal then anything you can get from the old line recording studios where you become a indentured servant.

»www.garagespin.com/2009/ ··· -itunes/
Transmaster

1 edit

Transmaster to JasonOD

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to JasonOD
dup posting
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to JasonOD

Member

to JasonOD
WAKE UP !!!
torrents are legal and TPB is a public place.if hollywood wants to go after pirates let them..............
do it legally and investigate the crime.do not attack my art or i will fight back.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

1 recommendation

PDXPLT

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by gorehound:

WAKE UP !!!
torrents are legal ...

But most aren't. Hey, even Craigslist was forced to clean up its act and deal with illegal sex trades on its site. And that's the crux of the matter - if sites self-police, and don't permit their facilities to be used for illegal activity, then the authorities will leave them alone. If instead they turn a blind eye to what they're being used for, then they'll get all sorts of unwelcome scrutiny, even to the extent of it being overbearing and possibly unconstitutional.

Good luck with fighting back, but you are probably outgunned in this battle. The entertainment industry is about half made up of lawyers and negotiators. Half of the industry are the content creators; the other half then works to wring every possible cent of value out of that content with various distribution deals.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to gorehound

Premium Member

to gorehound
said by gorehound:

1st point: i have pput out over 6 lp's and have no desire ever to sign with any big labels.i am INDIE and love it

The law wouldn't make you sign with anyone.
said by gorehound:

2nd point: i am freely sharing my art on TPB & public trackers.this is my way of advertising and the way of 1,000's of other musical acts that are INDIE.

And tell me how the law would force you from sharing your music for free.
said by gorehound:

3rd point: i am sharing more than one band i played in freely.big meat hammer,the gorehounds,the transplants,and the lynn rebels

What about other members of the band? Do they want to share that music?
said by gorehound:

4th point: censoring the internet will hurt me and my abaility to promote my art as well as hurt 1,000's of other bands or artists who do the same thing i do

And how will it do that if YOU are the owner of those works and have decided to share it?
said by gorehound:

5th point: if this bill passes i will have my lawyer and contact the ACLU and i will put togerther a nice big lawsuit.
today i told my lawyer even if we could not win a case like this we should do it anywyas for the press coverage to make the big greedy asshole MAFIAA look even worse than they already look.

Knock yourself out. The ACLU may not be with you, however.

DooD
join:2002-02-10
O Fallon, MO

DooD

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by FFH5:

1. The law wouldn't make you sign with anyone.

2. And tell me how the law would force you from sharing your music for free.

3. What about other members of the band? Do they want to share that music?

4. And how will it do that if YOU are the owner of those works and have decided to share it?

5. Knock yourself out. The ACLU may not be with you, however.

1. Correct, the law wouldn't make gorehound sign with anyone. If anything, this is more of a reasoning behind the following points. However, it can be argued that if this law passes, for gorehound's bands to continue their same level of distribution or more, they would be required to sign with a "big label" or multiply their efforts beyond reasonable means.

2. Gorehound did not say it would prevent him from sharing his music for free. Like point 1, this is informational, but about his methods of advertising and distribution. Also, it is subject to the same speculation at point 1.

3. It can only be assumed that they share the same viewpoints and are okay with it. If they are not, unlike being contracted by a "big label", they would be allowed to freely leave respective band.

4. Well, because the internet and torrents are his chosen methods of advertising and distribution (for economic, principle, and other reasons I'm sure), and because this bill seeks to censor his particular methods of advertising and distribution, it inherently hurts said advertising and distribution models. He will either have to accept less efficient, more costly methods of advertising and distribution or sign with a "big label".

5. This is conjecture or needs no further expounding.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a representative of "gorehound", his bands, or band members, nor do I claim to be. I am merely attempting to explain gorehound's posts and intentions, as I believe he meant them, to you who specified with your posts, as I believe you meant them, that you did not understand them.
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
1.why would i care about signing with a bunch of ripodffs like RIAA and big labels.i have known lots of musicians who were burned good by the big labels and i have heard stories since the mid-70's. we love being independent and controlling our destiny
2.we intend on using torrents as well as direct downloads.TPB has legal and illegal stuff.SO WHAT.if hollywood does not like that one they can eat krap.they want to arrest the bad pirate then let them do an investigation.this law and your view is wrong.my point is torrents are legal and this law is shit.it will penalize the innnocents.
3.no problem with other members of my bands.they love knowing that folks listen to them.

i give up.
i will fight this if it passes.smart lawyers will help me out.this law is taking away our freedoms and our freedom to choose.

cdru
Go Colts
MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN

cdru to gorehound

MVM

to gorehound
said by gorehound:

2nd point: i am freely sharing my art on TPB & public trackers.this is my way of advertising and the way of 1,000's of other musical acts that are INDIE.

3rd point: i am sharing more than one band i played in freely.big meat hammer,the gorehounds,the transplants,and the lynn rebels

MPAA|RIAA's response: See, he's giving away his music so whether he can freely give it away or not isn't hurting him. We don't give our content away so it costs us money. Pass our legislation.

swhx7
Premium Member
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia

1 recommendation

swhx7 to gorehound

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to gorehound
It's an assault, not only on the site owners and users, but on everyone who runs a DNS server.

There was a case years ago where a woman lived next door to a drug dealer. It was obvious - she saw the transactions all day and night. And sometimes the customers would come to her door, mistaking it for the dealer's location. This was a problem. She finally put up a sign saying "No drugs here - the dealer is next door -->", or similar. To keep the junkies away.

Result? This woman was arrested, prosecuted and convicted for telling people where they could get the illegal drugs.

Similarly under this proposal, if I understand it correctly, every operator of a DNS server in the US will have to continually filter it with the government's latest block-lists, to avoid prosecution. No longer will it be legal to simply give out factual information impartially and automatically.

It's the first step to a China-style "great firewall". Copyright is only the thin end of the wedge - as soon as the mechanism is in place, it will be used to prevent the US population finding out how corrupt the legislators are, how much fallout we're getting from Fukushima, and anything else some Washington officials don't want us to know.
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd

Premium Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by swhx7:

It's an assault, not only on the site owners and users, but on everyone who runs a DNS server.

There was a case years ago where a woman lived next door to a drug dealer. It was obvious - she saw the transactions all day and night. And sometimes the customers would come to her door, mistaking it for the dealer's location. This was a problem. She finally put up a sign saying "No drugs here - the dealer is next door -->", or similar. To keep the junkies away.

Result? This woman was arrested, prosecuted and convicted for telling people where they could get the illegal drugs.

Similarly under this proposal, if I understand it correctly, every operator of a DNS server in the US will have to continually filter it with the government's latest block-lists, to avoid prosecution. No longer will it be legal to simply give out factual information impartially and automatically.

It's the first step to a China-style "great firewall". Copyright is only the thin end of the wedge - as soon as the mechanism is in place, it will be used to prevent the US population finding out how corrupt the legislators are, how much fallout we're getting from Fukushima, and anything else some Washington officials don't want us to know.

Also they would have to force ISPs to block access to outside DNS because the government can tell Comcast and other DNS providers in the US to block something but if I find a DNS server in Canada I just bypassed their system with a quick change to my network settings.
said by JasonOD :

You don't like labels or want/need them to distribute your music, I get it. But why not find another method to distribute your work that doesn't involve getting mixed up with illegal sites/downloads? You have to realize that using what perhaps is the worlds biggest IP theft enabling site (TPB) to distribute your works is a risky proposition.

That is like saying a delivery firm should not use the NJTP because Illegal drugs are also carried along it.

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT
·StarLink

SimbaSeven

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

said by Kearnstd:

Also they would have to force ISPs to block access to outside DNS because the government can tell Comcast and other DNS providers in the US to block something but if I find a DNS server in Canada I just bypassed their system with a quick change to my network settings.

If that sh*t happens, you can expect a Darknet popping up. From there, people could host a DNS server that VPN tunnels to another country to get updates. Ya, I've been thinking of that lately.

I sure as hell am not installing a blacklist on my DNS server. It'd just be another form of prohibition.
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound to Kearnstd

Member

to Kearnstd
TPB is a public site.anyone can upload to that site.my art is there and we love that fact.
Screw The MAFIAA

these MAFIAA have been ripping off the public as well as their artists.i do not ripoff artists.i post only my art with the permission of my ex-bandmates or current bandmates.they love it that they are downloaded by folks all over the world.
gorehound

gorehound to swhx7

Member

to swhx7
EXACTLY !!!
just look at the patriot act and how it was used for cases having nothing to do with terrorism.

you open the door to censorship with this government and there is no turning back.that door will remain open and more censorship will be done.first they will attack P2P next it might be porn or offensive art or offensive hate groups or just whatever they do not like.

this is one reason why my art is on public trackers now and i will fight this censorship.by putting my art on TPB and it being legal there might be a chance that i could make a difference.
i do not know the legal system but i have friends who are lawyers and they can tell me what to do if this bill passes.
nutcr0cker
join:2003-04-02
Chandler, AZ

nutcr0cker to gorehound

Member

to gorehound
The newest law in the United states of corporate America is that if you can buy the congress thugs you can screw the people and unfortunately Indie bands aren't capable to pacify the appetite of the congressional hores. Just a matter of time before the politicians outlaw Indie bands under the guise of PETriot act #3
Kearnstd
Space Elf
Premium Member
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ

Kearnstd to gorehound

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to gorehound
Don't forget that Hollywood has been taking public domain stories for years and making copyrighted films from them. And then if someone else tries to make a work based on the same public domain content they can somehow be sued because the MAFIAA owns the courts.

The high school in the town next to mine got sued by Disney for calling their team the Mad Hatters. It did not even matter to Disney that said town was the Hat production center for the US for awhile and had actual mad hatters.
gorehound
join:2009-06-19
Portland, ME

gorehound

Member

Re: This bill will attack me and INDIE Bands

Another good example of MAFIAA politics.
and as others have noted this bill screws the DNS system in place forcing DNS servers to filter out these sites.i am not good at networking but it seems to me that this bill will create millions of dollars of spending probably coming from our taxes or from some poor companies pockets.

RedCaliSS
Premium Member
join:2004-08-21
Murrieta, CA

1 recommendation

RedCaliSS

Premium Member

PROTECT-IP now on hold

found this over at ARS Technica

»arstechnica.com/tech-pol ··· -act.ars

PROTECT-IP supposedly now on hold

Doctor Four
My other vehicle is a TARDIS
Premium Member
join:2000-09-05
Dallas, TX

Doctor Four

Premium Member

Re: PROTECT-IP now on hold

Thank you, Senator Ron Wyden.

There's at least one politician not bought and paid for by the MAFIAA.

woody7
Premium Member
join:2000-10-13
Torrance, CA

woody7

Premium Member

Re: PROTECT-IP now on hold

where are the jobs that were promised? always enough time for crap legislation, never enough for what is actually needed

SimbaSeven
I Void Warranties
join:2003-03-24
Billings, MT

SimbaSeven to Doctor Four

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to Doctor Four
I hear that.

Although, I'm afraid this is just a stall tactic.

PunkGod
join:2003-02-02

PunkGod to Doctor Four

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to Doctor Four
said by Doctor Four:

Thank you, Senator Ron Wyden.

There's at least one politician not bought and paid for by the MAFIAA.

Or wants more money before signing off on it.
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

1 edit

PDXPLT to Doctor Four

Member

to Doctor Four
said by Doctor Four:

Thank you, Senator Ron Wyden.

One guy I gladly vote for every 6 years. Last November, he was ahead in the polls so much, he gave away some of his campaign cash to other politicians - didn't need it.

His statement:

“In December of last year I placed a hold on similar legislation, commonly called COICA, because I felt the costs of the legislation far outweighed the benefits. After careful analysis of the Protect IP Act, or PIPA, I am compelled to draw the same conclusion. I understand and agree with the goal of the legislation, to protect intellectual property and combat commerce in counterfeit goods, but I am not willing to muzzle speech and stifle innovation and economic growth to achieve this objective. At the expense of legitimate commerce, PIPA’s prescription takes an overreaching approach to policing the Internet when a more balanced and targeted approach would be more effective. The collateral damage of this approach is speech, innovation and the very integrity of the Internet.

"The Internet represents the shipping lane of the 21st century. It is increasingly in America’s economic interest to ensure that the Internet is a viable means for American innovation, commerce, and the advancement of our ideals that empower people all around the world. By ceding control of the Internet to corporations through a private right of action, and to government agencies that do not sufficiently understand and value the Internet, PIPA represents a threat to our economic future and to our international objectives. Until the many issues that I and others have raised with this legislation are addressed, I will object to a unanimous consent request to proceed to the legislation."

anon6
@comcast.net

anon6

Anon

protect ip

how long can he place a hold on it?
PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR

PDXPLT

Member

Re: protect ip

Under Senate rules, I think as long as we he wants. Or as long as he can resist the lobbying pressure to remove it: other senators will place holds on things he wants, etc. Comes down to horse-trading.
old_wiz_60
join:2005-06-03
Bedford, MA

old_wiz_60

Member

Most of the members

of Congress don't pay that much attention to what's in the bills anyway; they vote the way their owners tell them to. The IP businesses own enough members of Congress so they shouldn't have a problem getting the law passed. Laws like "Protect IP" get passed because businesses want them. It would probably pass the SCOTUS challenge since the SCOTUS now collects quite a bit on the side as well.

I also wonder if any members of Congress have any real knowledge of the Constitution?

nicdude
@optonline.net

nicdude

Anon

ip on hold

Om*g i'm so so soooooo happy this is on hold indefinitely i use torrent and private download all the time for tv and legal use i think this is the not the start of internet cencorship that i blame google for but this would be a huge step in the wrong direction although outlawing prOn wouldn't be a bad idea it messes with brain chemistry anyways i would hate if the law gets passed