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Qwest Cuts Off SkyWi Customers
Says New Mexico ISP owes them $1.7 million
Qwest pulled the plug on New Mexico's largest independently run DSL and wireless ISP yesterday, claiming that SkyWi owes the baby bell $1.7 million for wholesale broadband services. Qwest was willing to keep the spice flowing for a payment of $580,000, which SkiWi didn't comply with. SkiWi offers New Mexico customers symmetrical 10Mbps broadband service for $60 a month, according to the company website. While Qwest says the shutdown was business, a press release by SkyWi claims it's an anti-competitive move:
quote:
"We believe that we are under attack by Qwest Communications. SkyWi filed a lawsuit against Qwest in federal court in New Mexico earlier in December regarding Qwest's predatory, anti-competitive and unfair trade practices. We itemized Qwest's anti-trust violations, as well as racketeering activities, invoking the Clayton Act and RICO statutes. Qwest has now decided to discontinue the service it had provided to SkyWi," states Jack Leach, SkyWi's President.
The company admits they owe money, but claims it's "nowhere near" $1.7 million. SkyWi says tens of thousands of customers were impacted by Qwest's decision, including the customers of One Connect IP and Zianet, recently acquired subsidiaries of SkyWi.
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Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

1 recommendation

Cheese

Premium Member

They admit they owe money ....

But claim QWEST is doing this to be anti-competitive, it can't be both, you owe money or you don't, plain and simple.

RadioDoc

join:2000-05-11
La Grange, IL

RadioDoc

Re: They admit they owe money ....

I'll have to try this next time I owe a vendor money.

Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

Cheese

Premium Member

Re: They admit they owe money ....

said by RadioDoc:

I'll have to try this next time I owe a vendor money.
Me too!
Austinloop
join:2001-08-19
Austin, TX

Austinloop to RadioDoc

Member

to RadioDoc
RadioDoc, LMAO, and I am sure that the result will probably be the same, no pay, no play!

David
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
Granite City, IL

David to RadioDoc

Premium Member

to RadioDoc
said by RadioDoc:

I'll have to try this next time I owe a vendor money.
You and me both! I will just say they are anti-competitive and am suing them but I owe the money.

I think their shipment of FAIL has arrived.

OSUGoose
join:2007-12-27
Columbus, OH

OSUGoose

Member

Re: They admit they owe money ....

Now serving Fail, party of one.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

jmn1207 to Cheese

Premium Member

to Cheese
said by Cheese:

But claim QWEST is doing this to be anti-competitive, it can't be both, you owe money or you don't, plain and simple.
Why can't it be both?

If a competing distributing company also owns your auto insurance company and charges you way too much to insure your trucks, how would that not be anti-competitive? Clearly you would still owe some money to pay your insurance, but if you dispute the price because it's a ridiculous amount and nowhere close to what was initially agreed upon, you have both situations. You owe money, and the insurance company/distributor is being anti-competitive.

You'd think it would be illegal to own a truck fleet while selling insurance to other competing truck fleets? Maybe we should not allow QWest to sell service directly to it's competitors? This doesn't make sense to me either.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

1 recommendation

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: They admit they owe money ....

said by jmn1207:

If a competing distributing company also owns your auto insurance company and charges you way too much to insure your trucks, how would that not be anti-competitive?
Because you can go and do business with another insurance company. You don't have to buy insurance from a competitor.

And SkyWi could have built their own infrastructure(especially wireless) and not used Qwest. The whole CLEC kludge has always been ridiculous and just because it was mandated by the government doesn't make it a viable business plan for providing internet services.

jmn1207
Premium Member
join:2000-07-19
Sterling, VA

2 edits

jmn1207

Premium Member

Re: They admit they owe money ....

I think there are restrictions in place that make it impossible for new infrastructure to be employed, at least competitively. This was a major reason why CLEC's were allowed to use existing, oftentimes tax-funded, infrastructures monopolized by a select few conglomerates.

Edit: Perhaps I should have used a toll road as my analogy. If the owners of the toll roads charged too much for competing trucks to use, that would be closer to this situation. Sure other roads can be used, but not in those areas where the owner of the toll roads delivers, and that would be seen as anti-competitive.

NOCMan
MadMacHatter
Premium Member
join:2004-09-30
Colorado Springs, CO

NOCMan to FFH5

Premium Member

to FFH5
What would you know about it. Telco's have consistently provided service at cost to drive independent ISP's out of business. We were the companies that brought the internet to small and medium sized towns outside the "Top 20" markets.

When DSL came out and our customers asked, we went to the telco's and they charged us on a per line basis the same price they were charging customers who went directly to them.

Now tell me how was my company supposed to pay to install separate phone lines to the 30k homes in the city we served?

Phone lines were taxpayers subsidized in many locations. It should be a copmany that managed infrastructure and all ISP/PHONE/etc should compete over services delivered across that.
regmanabq
join:2006-10-18
Albuquerque, NM

regmanabq to FFH5

Member

to FFH5
Qwest has held NM by the throat for years.

Which is funny, much of the technology for the internet was invented here, yet we still lag far behind the rest of the country on connectivity.

Glad to see them getting sued. Hope Qwest is found guilty and has to step up to the plate. Tired of having to choose shitty Comcast or Mafia like Qwest.

-1 recommendation

global guru to FFH5

Anon

to FFH5
every business owns another money.

anyone can sue anyone, in this great country of yours as well. Makes no sense not to pay a bill, but why not just have your government just print up some more fake money and hand it out as payment, as 500,000 people had no xmas, no jobs, and the country is out of money.......

your comments just prove my point in detail. everyone waits in line to criticize, while a handful actually look and communicate valid points, but still don't see how illegal business in the US can or has become. sure you have the right to do biz with anyone, but company's con each other to gain leverage, instead of win/win/win situations. They do as much damage they can to each other, while hiding in the civil legal laws, violating your very existence.

what businesses do to each other should be help by those same priciples and values. The lack thereof is new american disease, spreading to all west influenced countries....

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5 to Cheese

Premium Member

to Cheese
said by Cheese:

But claim QWEST is doing this to be anti-competitive, it can't be both, you owe money or you don't, plain and simple.
I noticed in the SkyWi press release that they claimed they made a counter offer to Qwest. But it must have been pretty lame because they didn't mention the details of their counteroffer in the press release.
"We made a reasonable and fair offer to Qwest to avoid interruption of services until these hearings took place. But that offer was refused by Qwest," explains Leach.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to Cheese

Member

to Cheese
I've seen BellSouth do this. They will over charge and finally admit they owe you a credit. So you keep your balance paid up minus the credit due. They will never actually apply the credit and the "System" will send you to collections and they will issue disconnect letters, etc.

I think I read something about this being a similar case a few months ago. The dispute isn't over money owed its over the amount owed.

funchords
Hello
MVM
join:2001-03-11
Yarmouth Port, MA

funchords to Cheese

MVM

to Cheese
said by Cheese:

But claim QWEST is doing this to be anti-competitive, it can't be both, you owe money or you don't, plain and simple.
Why can't it be both?
Zach
Premium Member
join:2006-11-26
Llano, CA

1 edit

1 recommendation

Zach

Premium Member

Collect or disconnect

I'm sure SkiWi has a policy to disconnect it's customers for non-pay. So does Qwest!
zangort
join:2007-12-14
Durango, CO

zangort

Member

HELP - Need New DSL ISP

OK, so I'm one of those who was affected. Can anyone suggest a good ISP that serves New Mexico well. I wanted to avoid the MSN/Live stuff, but am no longer sure who to go with if Zianet cannot get their act together. I'd like to have a little web space and a few e-mail addresses like I did before.

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

said by zangort:

OK, so I'm one of those who was affected. Can anyone suggest a good ISP that serves New Mexico well. I wanted to avoid the MSN/Live stuff, but am no longer sure who to go with if Zianet cannot get their act together. I'd like to have a little web space and a few e-mail addresses like I did before.
If SkyWi was using Qwest to provide you services, can't you get the same service from Qwest?
zangort
join:2007-12-14
Durango, CO

zangort

Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

I don't understand why everyone hasn't clicked on this - Qwest is the line provider, Zianet is the ISP.

Right now my DSL line from Qwest is humming along with a 7Mb connection, but no termination data (i.e. IP address, DNS servers, etc.). I'm having to use an alternate dial-up for now until I can find a new ISP.

Yes, Qwest does provide ISP services through Qwest.net/MSN/Microsoft Live (actually a separate corporate entity from Qwest-the-telco), but I've heard of problems with them, and have been told many times to avoid them (unless someone can convince me differently).

I wish I could find someone who could give me some straight answers on what Qwest.net can and can't do, pluses/minuses, etc., but no dice so far. OR... a good DSL ISP instead.

ropeguru
Premium Member
join:2001-01-25
Mechanicsville, VA

ropeguru

Premium Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

Ok, so Qworst is the last mile provider and not the main internet pipe provider?

FFH5
Premium Member
join:2002-03-03
Tavistock NJ

FFH5

Premium Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

said by ropeguru:

Ok, so Qworst is the last mile provider and not the main internet pipe provider?
Actually they are both. Providing ISP services and also acting as host to CLECs as well.
FFH5

1 edit

FFH5 to zangort

Premium Member

to zangort
said by zangort:

I wish I could find someone who could give me some straight answers on what Qwest.net can and can't do, pluses/minuses, etc., but no dice so far. OR... a good DSL ISP instead.
Qwest.net discussed in this BBR forum:
»/nsear ··· 38990656

And Qwest.net reviews and ratings at BBR are here:
»User reviews - Qwest.net

And all BBR news items about Qwest at BBR are here:
»/blog?cat=97

Cheese
Premium Member
join:2003-10-26
Naples, FL

Cheese to zangort

Premium Member

to zangort
said by zangort:

I don't understand why everyone hasn't clicked on this - Qwest is the line provider, Zianet is the ISP.

Right now my DSL line from Qwest is humming along with a 7Mb connection, but no termination data (i.e. IP address, DNS servers, etc.). I'm having to use an alternate dial-up for now until I can find a new ISP.

Yes, Qwest does provide ISP services through Qwest.net/MSN/Microsoft Live (actually a separate corporate entity from Qwest-the-telco), but I've heard of problems with them, and have been told many times to avoid them (unless someone can convince me differently).

I wish I could find someone who could give me some straight answers on what Qwest.net can and can't do, pluses/minuses, etc., but no dice so far. OR... a good DSL ISP instead.
Perhaps QWEST can tell you? Duh?
zangort
join:2007-12-14
Durango, CO

zangort

Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

Yeah... you keeping that. They don't have a clue as to how to respond to someone who actually knows what they're talking about and asks more than "Ug - me need Internet"... I've tried.
travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Bismarck, ND
Asus RT-AC68
Ubiquiti NSM5

travelguy to zangort

Member

to zangort
I've not had any problems with Qwest/MSN. The only unusual thing is that they tend to change my dynamic IP every week or two, but that's easily dealt with. It does tend to trigger some advanced security responses from various financial institutions I use.

You can get a static IP by using qwest.net instead of MSN, but I haven't seen the need.
TheMayor
join:2002-05-09

TheMayor

Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

Qwest recently started selling Static IP's to Qwest with Msn customers.
said by travelguy:

You can get a static IP by using qwest.net instead of MSN, but I haven't seen the need.

bobbette
@216.201.69.x

bobbette to travelguy

Anon

to travelguy
you can now get static IPs from msn too

collb
@comcast.net

collb to zangort

Anon

to zangort
I have DSL through Qwest, Zianet is the ISP. No internet last night was a surprise. I called Qwest first thing this morning. Couldn't get through to a human on their tech support. Called sales - they had to call tech support to find out what was going on. They told me Zianet was out of business - I would have to switch to a new ISP. The soonest they could make that happen was 5 days. They wanted to "MAIL" me a CD to "INSTALL" it (????).

I called Comcast (I already have cable through them) - they told me to come on down and pick up a modem. Employees at the office told me they had an emergency meeting this morning and they were all briefed and ready to get people set up today if you already have cable in this area. Takes a few days longer if you haven't had cable brought out to your house before.

Now that I'm reading what actually happened I think Qwest is the dumbest company going. They knew they were going to turn off SkyWi/Zianet. When I phoned this morning their employees should have quickly got me switched over to a new isp and merrily on my way. I'm no rocket scientist but can change ip addresses. Instead they lost a customer. So Dumb.
dynodb
Premium Member
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

dynodb

Premium Member

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

said by collb :

Now that I'm reading what actually happened I think Qwest is the dumbest company going. They knew they were going to turn off SkyWi/Zianet. When I phoned this morning their employees should have quickly got me switched over to a new isp and merrily on my way. I'm no rocket scientist but can change ip addresses. Instead they lost a customer. So Dumb.
You're suggesting that they move customers to a different ISP without permission from the customer and against the will of their current ISP? Uhh... No. That would be incredibly bad buisness.

If someone wants a different ISP, they should and do have to pick who they want and contact them as needed.

collb
@comcast.net

collb

Anon

Re: HELP - Need New DSL ISP

No - I was not implying that they should move customers to a different ISP without permission. I was on the phone with Qwest trying to get them to connect me to their own default provider and they couldn't do it without mailing me a cd. My observation is that they should have been ready to make that change very easy for me.
dynodb
Premium Member
join:2004-04-21
Minneapolis, MN

dynodb to zangort

Premium Member

to zangort
said by zangort:

I don't understand why everyone hasn't clicked on this - Qwest is the line provider, Zianet is the ISP.
That's only part of it. Zianet apparently offers their own wireless service in addition to being an ISP for customers phyically connected to Qwest DSL.

Most likely they rely on Qwest to provide trunks to their wireless nodes. If they're offering 10M/10M, they'd need at minimum a DS3 to each node and multiple DS3s or OC3s and above (possibly ethernet) to feed into their gateway router, which could also serve DSL subscribers. All those trunks/PVCs ain't cheap.
demoniacs
join:2007-07-17

1 recommendation

demoniacs to zangort

Member

to zangort
check this for the list of other ISP. »www.qwest.com/residentia ··· ist.html

El Paso
@dbambach.net

El Paso to zangort

Anon

to zangort
Where are you located in New Mexico?

phngod
@centurytel.net

phngod to zangort

Anon

to zangort
you dont have to get msn live or anything else you dont even need the disk most of the time just log into the modem 192.168.0.1 using your internet browser p.s. if you do a trace route in command prompt you'll find a lot of providers use Qwest pipeline
MTU
Premium Member
join:2005-02-15
San Luis Obispo, CA

MTU

Premium Member

Qwest vs. SkiWi

Interesting. I'm an outsider. What is SOP for pre-payments vs. post-payments for bulk services in this 'industry?

»findarticles.com/p/artic ··· 31064185

»washington.bizjournals.c ··· E1746785

»www.earthtimes.org/artic ··· 93.shtml

phoneless
@cybermesa.com

phoneless

Anon

Re: Qwest vs. SkiWi

It seems to me that if you dispute a bill, and have an injunction to prevent disconnect with a scheduled court date, nothing should be done until then. Guilt is determined in the court, not on street.
I found a CLEC called Cyber Mesa when I was looking for options to One Connect IP. The details are found on their website: cybermesa.com
travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Bismarck, ND

1 edit

travelguy

Member

Shame...

Have just completed my promo period with Qwest DSL and would have loved to switched to 10Mbps wireless. All Qwest offers in my area is 1.5Mbps DSL.

Transmaster
Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20
Cheyenne, WY

Transmaster

Member

Could it be in the name.....

Jack Leach, could it be his company is living up to his last name.

NetAdmin1
CCNA
join:2008-05-22

NetAdmin1

Member

Nice Dune reference...

quote:
Qwest was willing to keep the spice flowing for a payment of $580,000, which SkiWi didn't comply with.
I have to give props to Karl for the Dune reference.

nmdumbask
@qwest.net

nmdumbask

Anon

They admit they owe money ....

I notice that the majority of responses do not live where this is taking place. I do. My personal service is through Qwest, but where I work, the local domestic violence shelter, uses Zianet. And let me tell you the last 2 days has been a nightmare.
People can snicker, make jokes and point fingers, but the fact of the matter is, in the state of New Mexico, we have only one ground phone service and that is Qwest. And I'm sure there are laws protecting their right of eminent domain over us.
I see both parties at fault over not coming to an agreement before this thing occur. But I find it most suspect that Qwest decided to do this not only at the end of the month, but at the end of the year, when so many businesses have to do year end transactions.
We are in a real bind out here and Qwest informed us today that it would not be until late next week until we get internet access if we decide to leave Zianet and start using Qwest.
So all of you who are not affected by this, snicker away. But, I know that when this happens to you, there will not be enough tissue in this country to stop your blubbering.
travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Bismarck, ND
Asus RT-AC68
Ubiquiti NSM5

travelguy

Member

Re: They admit they owe money ....

said by nmdumbask :

the fact of the matter is, in the state of New Mexico, we have only one ground phone service and that is Qwest.
Umm, sorry, but that isn't true. While Qwest certainly dominates the state for wired voice service, especially in the populated areas, there are any number of independent companies serving the state. Plus, in the populated areas, Comcast offers digital voice with similar reliability to POTS.

Furthermore, you seem to be mixing up wired phone service with internet service. Qwest did not kill anyone's phone service. They did stop providing internet facilities to an ISP that wasn't paying it's bills.

VOIP is not the same as POTS or Digital Voice. If your non-profit was using VOIP for essential/emergency communication, perhaps you need to rethink that.
nevtxjustin
join:2006-04-18
Dallas, TX

nevtxjustin

Member

SkyWi non-payment problems

I didn't know SkyWi had operations in in New Mexico, but the links all point back to their base of operations in Fort Wort, TX (actually in Lakeside in northwest FW).

Our local newspaper on January 9, 2008 said, "...ownership to Allen Witters of Las Vegas New Mexico" This is from the thread, »www.ourazle.com/forum/vi ··· k=t&sd=a

That article also explains, "SkyWi had fallen behind on payments for the five months prior to July 2007" and Springtown locked them out.

And the city of Pelican Bay kicked them out, "Pelican Bay decides not to to renew their contract with SkyW" »www.ourazle.com/forum/vi ··· previous

I once posted,
SkwWi in Springtown newspaper article. They were behind in paying their water tower lease. Quote - "SkyWi representative Blanche Honeycutt told council that the company has been late paying “because we rely on investors for our funds.” Hmmm....I thought thats what your paying customers were for.

Watash
@qwest.net

Watash

Anon

Re: SkyWi non-payment problems

OneConnectIP provides VOIP services throughout the affected area. They purchased ZIANet a couple of years ago. We've been on their service pretty much since they started. SkyWi bought OneConnect and Zianet a few months ago.

Our plan was to outsource all commmunications, both Internet and voice to one company. Both Qwest and SkyWi are at fault here. We were NOT notified by either SkyWi or Qwest that our service was going to be interrupted. This, quite frankly, is inexcusable! Leach sounds like an idiot and has forgotten who he is working for...his customer. Qwest could care less about the customer and really never have.

I understand from reliable sources that Police and Sheriff's offices were affected with New Years Eve approaching. Several emergency clinics and at least one hospital had no phones and no internet. Most of these had POTS lines for faxing and for backup, but SkiWi was their provider. Qwest pulled the plug on all of it.

Leach and SkiWi should be ashamed for letting it get this far and deserve what they get! Qwaste should be fined for jeopardizing lives and costing the public tens of thousands of dollars in lost business and wasted time.

Marty11
@comcast.net

Marty11

Anon

I am glad they shut people off with no notice

This goes to show how not to depend on qwest for anything they sell.

Watash
@qwest.net

Watash

Anon

Re: I am glad they shut people off with no notice

I am glad you're glad. Maybe you should go to work for Qwest!

ekiM5
Oh Well
join:2001-01-06
/usr/home

ekiM5

Member

They are back on-line

I have family in NM affected by this. I advised them to go to the local Comcast office yesterday and add Internet to their TV account. They picked up a modem and did a self install. I just read an email telling me that their Comcast connection is functional and also that "Quest was told to re-enable the circuits". I have no details but thought I'd add to the thread.

Gflash
@bellsouth.net

Gflash

Anon

Who is to blame?

If a company like Qwest is required ( by the government) to provide service to a reseller that does not pay - How can Qwest stay in business? If Qwest cannot cut them off after several months of nonpayment the the government is helping to steal the service from Qwest.. The Skiwi customers were only looking for a cheaper alternative to Qwest and have only themselves to blame for non service .If they would have had Qwest service in the first place it would not have been disrupted.The failure is due to Skywi. You get what you pay for.

polly
@cybermesa.com

polly

Anon

Re: Who is to blame?

when i signed up with Zianet a couple of years ago they were the only company offering dsl where i live (in the country where there's no cable, either). my neighbors phone lines didn't even qualify for dsl and they have satellite connections.

so, i had no options if i didn't want a dial-up connection - and was really blind-sided by the recent shut down.

Qwest still doesn't offer dsl service where i am even though it's over their phone lines.

so, all situations are not necessarily the result of bad first choices.

Access Tech tim
@twtelecom.net

Access Tech tim

Anon

If your a biz affected by this

There is alot of misinformation about this. There has been Institutions both public and private that have been affected. I havent seen this kind of thing in 8 years when it was VERY common. All the Ilecs are shady when it come to your bills. Worldcom one of the worst. Qwest WILL take advantage of you!!! But with that said they will not TURN you off if you pay your bills!!!! Meaning pay what you owe them and dont pay whats in Dispute. That is where SKIWI is guilty and they know it!!! They are a company with cashflow problems. You cant charge what they are charging and make a profit. Sorry people everyone wants something for free unless your subsribers are in the millions your cashflow DIES. Even after that the negative catches up with you. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!!! 1 + 1 always =2.

If you are a biz public or private affected by this I would love to tell you the right direction. Since there is no advertising on this site all I can tell you to do is google access technologies albuquerque tim call

Dave Wood
@clearwire-dns.net

Dave Wood

Anon

Pays to think ahead

I've been in the telco biz for years and I always tell my customers that they need to strike a balance between going with the dominate carrier like Qwest versus the local CLEC competitor. The big boys give you geographic coverage for an all site/on net solution and superior reliability. The little guys give you lower price, more personable customer service, maybe a richer feature set, and the always entertaining possiblity of going belly up with little notice.

Qwest bashing aside, from what I have researched, this is a fairly straight forward case of a wholesale customer in a cash flow pinch who got axed because they didn't pay their bills. Maybe it could have been handled better, but this is fair warning that each individual customer has to do their due diligence and ask things like what are my redundancy plans? This is why I always give a minimum of three bids if possible so that customers can investigate each company to make an informed decision. Cheaper can be better but sometimes it can be gastly expensive.