  Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs:
·Comcast
| only if you live next door to the CO? So I remember when the 7mbps came out but I couldn't get it because I was too far. The best I could get was 1.5 at the time and I recentlly checked and still can only get 1.5.
Do you need to pitch a tent right outside the CO to get the 40megs? -- That was the wild boar.... Moo! My podcast: The Banzai Beat »www.banzaibeat.com | |
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 |  robl27 Premium join:2008-07-16 Mary Esther, FL | Re: only if you live next door to the CO? if this is fiber, it should be ok. similar to cable. watch it will take forever for the rest of us to see speeds + pricing like this!
-Rob | |
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 |  |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| Re: only if you live next door to the CO? said by robl27 :if this is fiber, it should be ok. similar to cable. watch it will take forever for the rest of us to see speeds + pricing like this! Unlike Cox cable, these aren't the "out the door" prices. add about another $20/mo for the unfees. and you'll also STILL be giving up 15% of your bandwidth on tired old pppoe overhead[on the 40/20 plan you'll give up 6mbps downstream and 3mbps upload assuming you're one of the handful of people that can GET IT] -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | VDSL2+ should be able to give you ~40Mbps up to a decent distance (~3000'). I'm assuming that Qwest is deploying RT's near the each breakout box. | |
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 |   jinjimbob Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
| said by Chiyo :Do you need to pitch a tent right outside the CO to get the 40megs? No that is just plain silly. They are actually going allow people to live in their COs.
People would get a big speed jump if they just connected the RTs with fibre from the COs. | |
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 |  |  patcat88
join:2002-04-05 Jamaica, NY
| Re: only if you live next door to the CO? said by jinjimbob :No that is just plain silly. They are actually going allow people to live in their COs. Will you have to be registered as a CLEC with the state PUC if you want to sleep in the CO? | |
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 |   dvd536 as Mr. Pink as they come Premium join:2001-04-27 Phoenix, AZ
| said by Chiyo :Do you need to pitch a tent right outside the CO to get the 40megs? You can but you could STILL be 4000+ WIRE FEET from the CO. -- When I gez aju zavateh na nalechoo more new yonooz tonigh molinigh - Ken Lee | |
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 |  alchav
join:2002-05-17 Palm Desert, CA
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by Chiyo :So I remember when the 7mbps came out but I couldn't get it because I was too far. The best I could get was 1.5 at the time and I recently checked and still can only get 1.5. Do you need to pitch a tent right outside the CO to get the 40megs? Remember this is old Copper, and it's not only distance but condition too. This Copper goes back 30-40+ years ago, and it was laid primarily for Telephone Service. Then DSL came along and High Speed Broadband was born. This Copper had to be conditioned for the higher speeds. Then VDSL came and everyone said, oh great we can use existing Copper, but this was not all true. All this existing Copper had to be conditioned or replaced for VDSL, and the Beancounters said no problem but there was a big problem. Now Technology has moved on and speeds have gone crazy, this old existing Copper will not support the needed demand. | |
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 |  |   ross96 VIP join:2000-11-02 Dayton, OH | Re: only if you live next door to the CO? Actually even older in some instances. I'm 1900' from an AT&T Vrad on copper that was placed in the 1950's and guess what.....I sync at 55Mbps! using VDSL, VDSL2 would be even better. It can and is being done. | |
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 |  |   Chiyo Save Me Konata-Chan Premium join:2003-02-20 Minneapolis, MN clubs:
·Comcast
| Re: only if you live next door to the CO? said by RMKyote :I live 3300 feet from the CO (I can see it from my house - not Russia though) and they can barely give me 4.3Mbps down now (should have 7Mbps). Had 10/10 with SprintION in 1998-2001 on the same copper. That was a DSL service!! So this "new" product will have to have some major new technology or these guys are going to have to get off their collective butts and start providing AND move TS back to the U.S. Holy cow 10/10 in 1998 must of been so bad ass -- That was the wild boar.... Moo! My podcast: The Banzai Beat »www.banzaibeat.com | |
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 |  |  |   RMKyote
join:2000-12-21 Beverly Hills, CA
·Qwest.net
·ViaTalk
| Re: only if you live next door to the CO? Not only 10/10, which consistently showed 10Mbps in speed tests and not this 60-80% BS, but Four (4) Digital Phone Lines, and the Modem/Adapter had its own built in battery back up and NO SERVICE TROUBLE for the whole time I had it. Tech Support would call me up to see how I was doing and chat. I think they were as lonely as the Maytag Repairman.
I thought that was what DSL was. Until they were forced out of business by, you know who, Qwest. It was easier (cheaper) for them to quit instead of fight for their right of way. Then all that was left was this ADSL garbage, that when I asked of Qwest TS the other day why there was still a DL/UL speed difference, which I was told, "no one wants to upload". THEN the next day I received a letter telling me all about the new "2Gb Storage" that Qwest now has available for each on the machines on my network. Hmmm, no one wants to upload. I wrote back the the person that told me no upload and have yet to hear back.
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  kilometers
join:2007-01-24 Sacramento, CA
·SureWest Internet
·AT&T U-Verse
1 edit | 40/20 on VDSL2? That would be pretty awesome. If Qwest really does offer this at some point this year then I'll be even more disappointed in U-verse, which can only offer me 1.5mbps upload MAX.
Even though they don't compete with eachother I hope this could show what VDSL2 could do and what might be possible with AT&T U-verse in the future. ;_; | |
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 |  zed260
join:2007-09-30 Cleveland, TN | Re: 40/20 on VDSL2? well at&t could offer those speeds right now if theyed get red of the hd and sd channels and only offer internet/phone | |
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  delusion ftl
@algx.net | PPOA Unless things change dont forget to subract 10-20% of advertised speed to help offset the overhead of their PPOA protocol.
In reality the comcasts 16/2 is generally as fast or faster than Qwests 20/.8 | |
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 |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: PPOA PPPoA has nowhere near 10-20% overhead. In any case, they'd almost certainly be using PPPoE exclusively as they do with their current FTTN offerings.
The lion's share of overhead comes from DSL itself, thanks to it being based around ATM which has high overhead. Generally 12% is about the minimum in terms of overall overhead, with the average in the neighborhood of 15%. | |
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 |  |   longstreet
join:2004-11-14 Plano, TX | Re: PPOA 53 bytes is alot of overhead. | |
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 |  |  |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: PPOA said by longstreet :53 bytes is alot of overhead. And PPPoA itself doesn't have 53 bytes overhead. I suspect that you're adding in TCP/IP and ATM (AAL5) overhead on top of that from PPPoA, which is comparatively small. | |
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 |  |  |  |   longstreet
join:2004-11-14 Plano, TX | Re: PPOA Just the ATM header. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
| Re: PPOA said by longstreet :Just the ATM header. That's separate from PPPoA.
An entire ATM cell is only 53 bytes, 5 of which is AAL-5 overhead and 48 of which is user data. | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  RadioDoc 58ef2c0 Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11
·AT&T Midwest
| said by longstreet :Just the ATM header. To clarify this, here is a FAQ entry I wrote about six years ago. It references ADSL but the numbers hold for VDSL:
quote: The quoted "speed" is the sync rate between your modem and the DSLAM or RT port. This reflects the raw bitrate upon which everything else flows. Your data is encapsulated into Ethernet frames which are then encapsulated into TCP/IP packets which are then encapsulated into ATM cells which then are transmitted down the wire.
Actually the majority of the overhead isn't because of TCP/IP, its because of ATM (53 octet cells - 48 octet payload, 5 octet header). The PPPoE overhead is 8 octets per MTU (normally 1500 - this size of 1 Ethernet frame) The IP overhead is only 20 octets per MTU - PPPoE (normally 1492) and the TCP overhead is only 24 octets per MSS (normally 1452)
So thus:
PPPoE overhead is 0.53 % IP overhead is 1.30 % TCP overhead is 1.65 % ATM overhead, on the other hand is, 9.4 %
For total DSL delivery overhead of about 12.9 %, or 87.1% efficient.
Then there is the Ethernet overhead:
Ethernet overhead bytes: 12 gap + 8 preamble + 14 header + 4 trailer = 38 bytes/packet w/o 802.1q 12 gap + 8 preamble + 18 header + 4 trailer = 42 bytes/packet with 802.1q
Ethernet Payload data rates are thus: 1500/(38+1500) = 97.5293 % w/o 802.1q tags 1500/(42+1500) = 97.2763 % with 802.1q tags
Best case we're out another 2.5 percent just for using Ethernet...or 97.5% of 87.1%, for a final "efficiency" of 84.9%.
So therefore on a "perfect" 1536/384 line the max payload "speed" would be a tad over 1,300/326 kbps. A 3008/512 (sync) line delivers about 2554/435 (payload) and a 6016/768 (sync) line 5108/652 (payload).
Furthermore, ATM has services on top of it like IP does with TCP and UDP, introducing more overhead, for example, bridging Ethernet over ATM. Also, many of the data protocols within IP/TCP/UDP have even MORE overhead, depending on the protocol.
Every DSL provider does it the same way, the only way for a real improvement is to drop ATM, which isn't going to happen, as it is far too useful to drop, even with that kind of overhead
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   en102 Canadian, eh?
join:2001-01-26 Valencia, CA | Re: PPOA Yup, and I had ~2400-2500kbps on DSL-Extreme 3008/512kbps package. -- Canada = Hollywood North | |
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 |  |  |  |  |  |   Ark
join:2002-06-08 Hudsonville, MI
·AT&T Midwest
| I always sorta liked this picture explanation. | |
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 |  iansltx
join:2007-02-19 Golden, CO | Actually, the post says no PPPoE/A so no 15% speed cut. Though even with the cut Qwest,s pricing is reasonably competitive. I'll take 40/30 over 50/10 any day especially when 50/10 is capped. | |
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 dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN
1 edit | Beware Some of the info in that thread isn't exactly accurate. Grain of salt and all that.
And no, I'm not going to expand on it.
Let's just say the rollout (edit: if it happens) is much more involved than installing a new card in an existing DSLAM, and that it's going to take some time before widespread availability.
A positive step in any case though. | |
|
 jdjbuffalo
join:2004-01-17 Denver, CO
| Finally It's nice to see Qwest joining us in this decade...
If they want to be competitive then I think they will need to rollout lower pricing by a few dollars to $39.99 and drop the $10 "you don't have the $30+ phone service with us" fee. If they don't want to drop the fee then it should be integrated into the price. So on for their lowest tier it should be around $45.
In Denver, Comcast will soon be deploying their DOCSIS 3 upgrades with the lowest tier being 12/2 and Qwest could compete with their 12/5. However they can only do this if it is $55 but not if it is $62.99 + $15 in taxes. | |
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 |   danawhitaker Space...The Final Frontier Premium join:2002-03-02 Urbandale, IA | If only Qwest would stop by my street and boost us out of 1.5 land first. -- You're watching Sports Night on CSC so stick around... | |
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 Metatron2008
join:2008-09-02 Stockbridge, GA | Tonight... Craig Moffet is screaming like a little girl... | |
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 blackriders
join:2005-01-16 Bronx, NY
| Prices and Speed? Damn, with those prices and speed makes me glad I live in the Bronx. I can choose ool boost/ultra or verzion Fios.
Well once fios gets to my building. Rest of my block is wired alreeady  | |
|
 sludgehound
join:2007-03-12 New York, NY | RR slower than this Heck on Roadrunner Midtown west side Man'h I'm only gotten 15-18 down & 495 up. So much for cable. But I did get them to lower the package price for a year. Connection finally became more stable. | |
|
 Ted Sheckler
join:2009-01-17 Aurora, CO | For Real? I jumped ship from qwest to comcast here in denver going from 7Mb/.7Mb to 16Mb/2Mb (not including powerboost, which has a dramatic effect on normal down/uploads). I may have to jump ship again if i can get the 40/20 or 20/5! | |
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  tubbynet reminds me of the danse russe Premium join:2008-01-16 Chandler, AZ
·Cox HSI
·Callcentric
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·FrontierNet Intern..
| price points Platinum+ 7Mbps/5Mbps - $41.99 Titanium+ 12Mbps/5Mbps -$51.99 Quantum+ 20Mbps/5Mbps - $64.99 Ultimate 40Mbps/5Mbps - $99.99 Ultimate+ 40Mbps/20Mbps - $109.99
aside from the obvious problems that this is *with* a pots line, if you already subscribe to qwest for your pots voice, the price point is about right. all tiers have at least a 5 meg upload, which in the phoenix-metro market stomps on all d3 offerings (until cox lets loose with the 50/5 tier). if the cost voice pots voice was low enough, i think that i'd consider dropping my cox cable line (premier tier) and going with qwest. i'd much rather have the 7/5 tier over the 15/1.5 that i have now. the only thing that bumps my download speeds is roku - and even that really only pushes it to 10meg at best. with the added upload, my remote access would be greatly improved and if i leave some software behind, i can always grab it. plus with x11 over ssh, i can have access to all of my linux apps. its really a win. if this becomes a reality in the phoenix markets, cox might have to rethink their game plan a little. too much complacency breeds second place ratings...
q. -- "...if I in my north room dance naked, grotesquely before my mirror waving my shirt round my head and singing softly to myself..." | |
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  Zak_D_H Premium,VIP join:2007-01-04 Salt Lake City, UT | Not happy news. I am still chugging along with 1.5mb cap. I wish Qwest (as well as the other telco's) would worry about upgrading existing infrastructure to support regular ADSL speeds up to 7mb before they start cherry picking markets for VDSL. | |
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  Transmaster Don't Blame Me I Voted For Bill and Opus
join:2001-06-20 Cheyenne, WY
·Qwest.net
| Crap and More Crap Oh wow, higher speeds. I would be happy to at least get the 7mbps I am paying for. The only speed test that tell me this is what I am getting is the Qwest speed test, every speed tool available on this site tells me otherwise. Now I realize there is a lot of variable in these speed tests but you would think over a long period the speed would at least get over 4.5 mbps. -- I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption | |
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 |  dynodb Premium,VIP join:2004-04-21 Minneapolis, MN | Re: Crap and More Crap A lot of speed tests don't play nice with 7M for some reason. Use the Qwest speed test or a large download from a fast site. | |
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 ironrranger
join:2003-02-06 Virginia, MN
| Only for Metro areas. I spoke to a Qwest tech this morning and they have no plans to do vdsl2 network wide. It is only going to be a few metro areas. I'm on the 1.5 speed for life I guess. I think I will go to cable this year for phone and internet. I feel that we get treated as a bunch of idiots that live in the sticks. | |
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