RIAA Keeps Filing P2P Lawsuits Despite promise that they'd turned the corner... Monday Jan 12 2009 12:06 EDT The RIAA recently stated they'd stop filing lawsuits against P2P file traders, instead opting to make ISPs Internet babysitters as part of a plan no ISP wants to publicly admit involvement in. Instead of filing lawsuits, ISPs would forward warning letters to pirates, terminating their broadband connections upon repeated infractions. Except as Techdirt notes, the RIAA is not only continuing with currently filed lawsuits, but they filed a new lawsuit just eight days after saying they were done with their scorched earth legal campaign. |
DataDocMy avatar looks like me, if I was 2D. Premium Member join:2000-05-14 Hedgesville, WV |
DataDoc
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 11:49 am
So it was a ruse?Just to draw out new targets?
Why would anyone believe anything from them now? | |
| | DarkLogixTexan and Proud Premium Member join:2008-10-23 Baytown, TX |
DarkLogix
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:07 pm
Re: So it was a ruse?Exacly they want a lifetime revenue stream without a product (not much GOOD music these days anyway I might listen to it if they paid me per song) | |
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to DataDoc
alternate descriptions would be: lying, propaganda said by DataDoc:.... Why would anyone believe anything from them now? the only people that seem to believe the RIAA these days are reporters that blindly repeat whatever the press release says and a few gullible judges. | |
| | MrMoodyFree range slave Premium Member join:2002-09-03 Smithfield, NC Netgear CM500 Asus RT-AC68
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to DataDoc
said by DataDoc Why would anyone believe anything from them now? Why would anyone believe anything from them ever? | |
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Re: So it was a ruse?Better yet...
Why would anyone ever believe them in the first place? | |
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| Doctor FourMy other vehicle is a TARDIS Premium Member join:2000-09-05 Dallas, TX |
to DataDoc
Two big lies said by different but similar entities:
"I believe that cigarette smoking is non-addictive."
"We will stop suing people who are using filesharing programs to upload our music."
Yes, in many ways, the RIAA (or MAFIAA if you include the MPAA) are a lot like Big Tobacco. | |
| | Retired6 Premium Member join:2002-11-09 Earth |
to DataDoc
Tough times for the RIAA ! | |
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to DataDoc
What makes their tactics any different from the pirates finding new ways to steal or infringe? Alls fair in love and war. | |
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jjoshua Premium Member join:2001-06-01 Scotch Plains, NJ |
jjoshua
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:13 pm
They said that they would stopThey didn't say WHEN they would stop. Unlimited internet... Speeds up to... Plus taxes, fees, and activation... You can't believe anything you read today. | |
| | FFH5 Premium Member join:2002-03-03 Tavistock NJ |
FFH5
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:21 pm
Re: They said that they would stopThey did say they wouldn't commence new actions. It is very possible that the request to the Sheriff's office to serve the defendant was made before the announcement to no longer start lawsuits. And that the Sheriff/Constable didn't get around to it until later. | |
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TCub Premium Member join:2008-09-03 Olmsted Falls, OH |
TCub
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:31 pm
RIAA is a joke.They're not concerned with protecting artists, their out to make money. With all the shit music being produced today no one wants to spend money on it so the alternative is sue everyone.
When it comes to video games and movies, I'll ALWAYS pay and get them legitimately. Even if they're bad, that's my fault for not researching them well enough. I feel movies and games should be paid for because there's a lot of hard work that goes into them. When you pirate movies and games your taking from a lot of people.
However when it comes to music, I say download all you want. If the artist is good you'll go see them in concert and that's where their money is made at. I'm pretty sure they get shit from record sales. Music should be a single artists work unlike a movie or game which has hundreds of people working on it.
Recently Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) showed that record labels and charging people for your shit music isn't necessary. He released two albums (Ghosts and The Slip) all on line, all for free to download. For the more hardcore fans he released physical copies of the Cd's that included some extras to make them worth purchasing. As a result of this release his music is now exposed to more people and more people will probably see in concert now.
The artist gets paid, the fans get to experience the art, without a price. Because honestly, who can put a price on art?
When you go to the art museum you may pay to get in, but you certainly don't pay to view each painting nor to you have any limits in how long you view them. | |
| | pnh102Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty Premium Member join:2002-05-02 Mount Airy, MD |
pnh102
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:51 pm
Re: RIAA is a joke.said by TCub:Recently Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) showed that record labels and charging people for your shit music isn't necessary. He released two albums (Ghosts and The Slip) all on line, all for free to download. There's only one problem with this analysis. The fact is, Trent Reznor is now an established artist. 20+ years ago when he was not well known, he needed a label to promote him. While he might be able to earn a living without the need for a label, the fact remains that had he taken his approach when he was starting out, most likely no one would have ever heard of him or NiN. | |
| | | jester121 Premium Member join:2003-08-09 Lake Zurich, IL |
Re: RIAA is a joke.said by pnh102:The fact is, Trent Reznor is now an established artist. Who? kidding! | |
| | | knightmbEverybody Lies join:2003-12-01 Franklin, TN |
to pnh102
said by pnh102:said by TCub:Recently Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) showed that record labels and charging people for your shit music isn't necessary. He released two albums (Ghosts and The Slip) all on line, all for free to download. There's only one problem with this analysis. The fact is, Trent Reznor is now an established artist. 20+ years ago when he was not well known, he needed a label to promote him. While he might be able to earn a living without the need for a label, the fact remains that had he taken his approach when he was starting out, most likely no one would have ever heard of him or NiN. That is a good point, but you have to remember that the recording industry works like a bank. You borrow money, invest in music and advertising. If you succeed, you pay back the loan plus an insane amount of interest, anything left is yours to keep. A lot of bands/artist that don't succeed are left with massive amounts of debt until it is paid back. So yeah, mega stars have a much better chance than an indie, but at least in today's world, the indie band won't be millions of dollars in debt trying to get the music out. | |
| | | | TCub Premium Member join:2008-09-03 Olmsted Falls, OH |
TCub
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 6:39 pm
Re: RIAA is a joke.thats the other thing to. how much money does it actually take to produce and get say a Kanye West album. I highly doubt they get that much money off of record sales alone. What really counts is the concert sales.
Think of it like this. A CD costs $15. The store takes a chunck of that, the record label takes a chunck, some goes to actually making the phyical copy of the disk and packaging and transporting, in the end the artist is left with very little. And even if you take 100% of the cost in, thats $15 per fan.
Now look at concerts. Tickets can cost what, at least $50 upwards, per fan. Obviously more people will buy a CD then goto a concert but still, the money adds up quickly and the artist gets more of it (in most cases) | |
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Re: RIAA is a joke.Your understanding of concert economics is flawed. The biggest driver of ticket costs, these days, is show insurance. The premiums for insurance for one show, in one venue, have climbed to the astronomical.They get even higher for bands that are perceived as having "unruly" fans or are "inciteful". Add to that all the other expenses that go into putting on a show(lots of trucks and busses need lots of expensive diesel fuel) and most bands are break-even on shows that take place in arenas and stadiums, when you look at the gate. Where they make their money is merchandising. A lot of cash money moves at the merchandising stalls for big bands, and even after the house and the merchandising contractor take their cut, the band makes a healthy sum, in a lot of cases the only profit they make on the road.
Also, the IRS has cracked down on bands for going out on the road for two years or more and hiring all their crew as contractors. It has been a dodge used on the road for years and the IRS has determined that it has been abused. So that means even more costs to the band.
But let me repeat myself: the single biggest driver for ticket costs is insurance.
And yes, I do know what I am talking about. | |
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My2Cents to TCub
Anon
2009-Jan-12 9:19 pm
to TCub
I am not trying to troll here, but you obviously don't know how the music business works. Everyone thinks that the artists will make their money back in ticket sales to concerts. While they do make money to tour (some even pay more than they get), the whole point behind a concert is to "PROMOTE THE SALES OF THE NEW ALBUM". Unless you are an indie band or been in the top 40 for more than 20 years, you do not make any PROFIT from the shows. Think of the money that gets shelled out for merch, gas, transportation, staff, lodging, food, repairs, and other hospitality items. I am going to stop myself from ranting but I'll finish with this..
BANDS DO NOT MAKE ENOUGH MONEY FROM TOURING, THEY DO RELY ON ALBUM SALES.
I love music too but I really hate hearing uninformed people making comments about how bands make money at concerts, they don't know what really goes on..
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! | |
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| | TCub Premium Member join:2008-09-03 Olmsted Falls, OH |
to pnh102
I will agree that trent can offord to give his music away because hes already well established. His first album, Pretty Hate Machine, came out in 1988! (Which was recorded in Cleveland!! WHOO!)
A few years ago I get into producing electronic music. It was of an ambient/expiremental sound. All of my songs were released for free on the internet through sites like PureVolume and MySpace. And while I was doing it I networked with tons of other independent artists.
I would say its definitly possible with the tools available to artists today to get your name out there and start playing shows for money.
I have a friend who's brother has been doing solo gigs for years now. Hes recorded a few songs with other local artists but they've never sold any CD's. They have however been on tour and not only played locally at coffee shops and what not but they've also been to other states performing with other bands. He's a pretty mysterious person but he only works one day a week delivering pizza on the slowest night of the week and he can still survive.
My point is hes making money and he isn't selling CD's. In fact I think he could be doing even better if he really promoted himself more on the internet.
It would be very difficult to achieve the level of success that Trent Reznor has off of just going with these indie artist sites alone, but you can make a career out of it without help from a record label. | |
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nixenRockin' the Boxen Premium Member join:2002-10-04 Alexandria, VA |
nixen
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 12:49 pm
It was such a successful programDid you really expect them to immediately stop using it? | |
| K3 join:2008-05-06 Kankakee, IL |
K3
Member
2009-Jan-12 12:57 pm
all bark and no biteThe title should explain it all, don't believe anything these fools the RIAA tell ya, it's a joke, a scare tactic, if you get an email saying your infringed...ignore it...it'll go away. | |
| koma3504Advocate Premium Member join:2004-06-22 Granbury, TX |
koma3504
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 1:13 pm
Snowblind What they are doing is putting a effort in. The Government see this as good but does not really know. The have everyone snowblinded. ISP,Government, The court system. the whole 9 yards well almost | |
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Re: SnowblindPlease tell me they will incorporate the same snowblinding they hit you with. I just want to have a comparison. | |
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Net ActWhatever happened to the NET Act? And why doesn't the RIAA utilize it to not only sue but also criminally prosecute? If you share one MP3, you are a felon, according to the NET Act and you can serve 5 years in the slammer for it.
Perhaps a lawyer here could elaborate on why it isn't enforced in the P2P cases. | |
| | jmn1207 Premium Member join:2000-07-19 Sterling, VA |
jmn1207
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 2:18 pm
Re: Net ActI think it's still around. The RIAA/MPAA would bring on a whole new level of shit-storm if they started prosecuting a bunch of college students as felons. A jury of peers would most likely employ jury nullification and the public would demand that these draconian laws be eradicated.
I don't think the RIAA wants justice, they just want money. And that is unjustified in my opinion. | |
| | KearnstdSpace Elf Premium Member join:2002-01-22 Mullica Hill, NJ |
to KodiacZiller
said by KodiacZiller:Whatever happened to the NET Act? And why doesn't the RIAA utilize it to not only sue but also criminally prosecute? If you share one MP3, you are a felon, according to the NET Act and you can serve 5 years in the slammer for it. Perhaps a lawyer here could elaborate on why it isn't enforced in the P2P cases. because to press criminal charges and lock someone up as a Felon the RIAA would need to present hard proof that the person did the crime. they would also have to hope a Jury agreed with them, and in this day in age where big business doesnt exactly have a great image they wouldnt stand a chance. so basicly two issues the RIAA isnt compatable with because it gets in the way of their strongarm tactics 1. requiring Evidence, the RIAA never has had any real Evidence so a criminal case would crumble 2. a Jury, once you take the back room BS out of the picture and put it in the hands of the Jury, the RIAA could end up paying the person. | |
| | IT GuyOw, My Balls Premium Member join:2004-07-29 Las Cruces, NM Cisco ASA 5505 Cisco Meraki MX64
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to KodiacZiller
IMO, the punishment doesn't fit the crime. This would open up the flood gates and I could see it ending up in the Supreme Court.
If your casual, personal use pirate gets caught, I could see it being a petty misdemeanor, but a felony? Get serious! We're running out of space in our prisons as it is, there's no room in there for non-violent offenders. Who would you rather have out on the streets? A measly copyright infringer or a sociopathic murderer? Priorities!!!
Now I could see a multi-year prison term handed out to a pirate who was making a profit off of others' work, but let's be real! If you make it a felony to simply download the content for personal use, I believe it will have a very negative affect in the entire criminal justice system. Many jurisdictions don't have enough cops to serve their community, courts are already bogged down with their dockets and as I stated before, our prisons are bursting at the seams, largely with non-violent offenders as-it-is. Why make it worse over something that can be handled in civil court or handled more like a parking ticket? | |
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RIAA and Bush----never tell the truthRIAA and Bush----never tell the truth | |
| PolarBear03The bear formerly known as aaron8301 Premium Member join:2005-01-03 |
Yes, but"RIAA Keeps Filing P2P Lawsuits"
Yet they still haven't won any. | |
| | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: Yes, butsaid by PolarBear03:"RIAA Keeps Filing P2P Lawsuits" Yet they still haven't won any. They haven't? What about the MN lady...? .. and, either way.. to win some, lose some, does it matter? Ever had a multi-billion dollar industry file a suite against you in court of law? ... I wonder what happens to your nerves and emotions. I wonder how many cases of shingles could come out it. IOW, it's not a pleasant thing to be sued. Most people don't have the money to defend themselves, much less answer the complaint to avoid a default judgment which opens you up to, well, what ever they wanted... and you don't want a default judgment against you either. | |
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Re: Yes, butYet they still haven't won any. They don't have to win any. They terrorize people with the threat of losing hundreds of thousands of dollars in a lawsuit, and then settle for a few thousand. But still, every time they put a family through hell, they get press coverage for doing it, so they've accomplished their goal, which is scaring the crap out of people. They'll spend more on attorneys fees than they ever collect, but like any terrorist group, as long as they terrorize, they win. As for ISPs, like any business, they need to remember who pays their bills. And it ain't the RIAA. | |
| | | | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: Yes, butsaid by AARRGGHHH7:Yet they still haven't won any. As for ISPs, like any business, they need to remember who pays their bills. And it ain't the RIAA. That dog don't hunt bud... it's not about paying the bill, it's about following the laws and protecting the rights of intellectual property owners. Still, even though I think the law suites are excessive, they are valid none the less. I don't think they should be suing for thousands for a song.. that's absurd.. however, they have every right - and should continue - to sue for damages against people that snub their nose for doing something they know is wrong! But to my main point.. I'll stress.. don't care if you spend $40 a month on a connection to the net.. you only rent it, and it doesn't give people the right to do wrong with it either.. | |
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to fiberguy2
said by fiberguy2 They haven't? What about the MN lady...?
A mistrial was declared and the verdict thrown out by the judge who presided over the case, who stated that RIAA actually needed to prove that piracy was actually comitted. | |
| | | | fiberguy2My views are my own. Premium Member join:2005-05-20 |
Re: Yes, butahhh.. okay.. never really followed up on that case. They made a big deal about it when it happened, but little noise after that. | |
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netwire Premium Member join:2001-04-27 Dallas, NC |
netwire
Premium Member
2009-Jan-12 8:03 pm
Just my thoughtsPerhaps I am alone in my thinking but can we really blame to RIAA for their actions? If I where a company selling a product I would be highly upset if someone was freely distributing my hard work for free via the internet. That would directly effect my profits (even if I had millions). All and all music piracy is illegal and if you pirate music you should be charged - even jailed for it. Theft is Theft no mater how you candy coat it or how evil you may think the company protecting their property is. | |
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RWSI
Anon
2009-Jan-12 10:29 pm
Prove p2p communicationsAs a wireless ISP operator, I got those letters in the mail but could do nothing about them. How do you track thousands of users that were setup to be anonymous in the first place. We refuse to babysit and watch traffic of an unknown nature. Who is to say someone just named a file the same name of a copyrighted subject. I feel the RIAA and the way they are going about it is ridiculous. Show me some real proof and I might be able to do something about it. | |
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Lopov
Anon
2009-Jan-14 12:16 am
ExtortionAstroturfers are the sux. | |
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how is this leaglein article bellow in 2004 the feds declared isps are not oblicated to share user idents to the riaa, what has changed, if this is not required by law to deal with the riaa, who cares what they want. » www.internetnews.com/xSP ··· /3300211 | |
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