RIAA Wins Lawsuit Against Usenet.com After company destroyed evidence, sent employees into hiding... Tipped by S_engineer 
According to CNET, the RIAA has emerged victorious in their case against Usenet.com for wholesale copyright infringement. Filed back in 2007, the RIAA took particular issue with the outfit's ads promising "access to millions of MP3 files" for the monthly $19 payment. While the advertising was bad enough, the case was made substantially easier for the RIAA thanks to the fact that Usenet.com was destroying evidence on hard drives, often supplying incorrect information -- and even sent several employees to Europe to prevent them from testifying. In a statement, the RIAA lauds the courts for taking action against Usenet.com's "egregious litigation misconduct."
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 | | Usenet.com It's Usenet.com, not all of Usenet. | |
|  |  nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Usenet.com said by tictac :
It's Usenet.com, not all of Usenet.
Yeah, I was a touch confused by the title, at first. Seems a touch strange that a company would name itself against an unbrandable name like that. Perhaps they knew their business model was suspect, so they were just looking to get in, make their money, and then duck out once the inevitable lawsuits came.
/me shrugs
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
| | |  knightmbEverybody Lies
join:2003-12-01
Franklin, TN
1 edit | Re: Usenet.com I don't think I would excuse the usernet.com company either for blatantly advertising illegal content that has to be hosted on their servers.
No worries, it's only a matter of time before my »theriaampaaareabunchofgreedybastardsbay.us website is up and running. 
That is real site BTW  | |
| | | | nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Usenet.com Hope you got a shorter domain name that you can do a redirect from. That's WAAAAY too much to type in. 
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
|
| | | 1.Stop buying any corporate label music
2.stop buying any music from artists who sign with the RIAA
3.stop buying music from any small labels who would sign with the RIAA
4.support local music
5.support small independent artists
6.buy only used music so the RIAA/LABELS get no money from sale
DO IT !!! STOP SUPPORTING THE RIAA !!! | |
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 ShamayimI already have a Messiah.Premium
join:2002-09-23
1 edit | LOL I'd like to see them try to sue 'Usenet'  | |
|  HarddriveProud American and Infidel since 1968.Premium
join:2000-09-20
Phone Room
kudos:2
 ·Comcast
| Usenet.com not the entire Usenet why Usenet.com became a sitting duck:
they, as a company, actually advertised $19 per month for "access to millions of MP3 files". they also destroyed hard drives, provided false data to RIAA, and sent employees to Europe to keep them from testifying.
i will give a nod to Usenet.com for trying to protect its customers' info from the prying eyes of the RIAA. but when they advertised about the access to millions of MP3 files, they shot themselves in the foot.
there are lots of Usenet providers out there. and we all know that the binary groups of Usenet is what most people subscribe to a newsgroup provider for. you just cant come out as a provider and actually say that like Usenet.com did.
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I've come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass and i'm all outta bubblegum. | |
| | Cogdis
join:2007-03-26
Floral Park, NY | Re: Usenet.com not the entire Usenet said by Harddrive:you just cant come out as a provider and actually say that like Usenet.com did. Exactly. usenet has many legitimate uses, but once you start advertising piracy you no longer have that argument. | |
| | | | | Re: Usenet.com not the entire Usenet Since when were mp3s illegal by default?
Not to say that usenet.com wasn't doing something illegal, but that line of reasoning would be like saying that yahoo games must be doing something wrong when they advertise hundreds of free games.
If all usenet.com did was advertise free mp3 downloads that's almost meaningless on its own. | |
| | | |  cdruGo ColtsPremium,MVM
join:2003-05-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:5
 ·Frontier FiOS
| Re: Usenet.com not the entire Usenet said by mp3sillegal :
Since when were mp3s illegal by default? It's not. That's why the RIAA when to court to get a ruling. To which Usenet.com made matters worse by destroying evidence, sending employees away, etc. | |
| | | |  KrKHeavy Artillery For The Little GuyPremium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
 ·AT&T DSL Service
| said by mp3sillegal :
Since when were mp3s illegal by default? Ever since they gamed the system and wiped out Napster. If you say you "file trade", "P2P", "Bittorrent", "Download Music" or "Collect MP3's" nowdays that all means "Pirate... Pirate.... Pirate...."
Half of the battle is controlling the language and changing the meaning of words.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini
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| | What about Gopher? I haven't seen them around in quite a while. I wonder if the RIAA sued them as well.
And last I heard, Archie and Veronica were on the lam down in South America with huge judgments already entered against them. | |
| |  sivranBack to Opera againPremium
join:2003-09-15
Arlington, TX
kudos:1 | Re: What about Gopher? Oi oi, stop carbon dating yourself and those of us who actually know what you're talking about. | |
| | | | | Re: What about Gopher? I wondered how long it'd take someone to reply. Man, those were the days. Amazing how fast you could do things on a 2400 baud dialup connection when all you had was a shell account. | |
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amungusPremium
join:2004-11-26
America Reviews:
·AT&T DSL Service
| Poorly written article Anyone else notice the (sloppy) grammar in a couple spots from the linked article?
"...does has some say..."
Um, I can has article published?!
"The RIAA produced evidence, however, that Usenet.com destroying evidence or failed to produce witnesses on multiple occasions."
I destroying that sentence or fail to include other words
Interesting that they tried to use the Betamax ruling as a defense. Likely that the RIAA etc. will go after other providers now...
Wonder if they'll try to force ISPs to start blocking the (NNTP) protocol. | |
| | | | Re: Poorly written article said by amungus:Anyone else notice the (sloppy) grammar in a couple spots from the linked article? "...does has some say..." Um, I can has article published?! "The RIAA produced evidence, however, that Usenet.com destroying evidence or failed to produce witnesses on multiple occasions." I destroying that sentence or fail to include other words Interesting that they tried to use the Betamax ruling as a defense. Likely that the RIAA etc. will go after other providers now... Wonder if they'll try to force ISPs to start blocking the (NNTP) protocol. The biggest reason usenet.com lost the judge would not let them use the dmca safe harbor for a punishment for activity in the case. The dmca is most important defense they had most likely they would have won other providers won't have that problem | |
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 MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Easy Target News group providers are an easy target for the RIAA/MPAA and I'm not surprised they are going after them to get a few wins under their belt. It will be MUCH easier to force this industry to drop obviously illegal newsgroups -- which will completely kill the industry as a whole because let's face it, who really needs an unlimited usenet account unless you're doing something illegal? | |
| | elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand Reviews:
·Cybersurf Intern..
| Re: Easy Target I disagree, there is all of money invested in hardware/bandwidth. The big 3 (Newshosting/Usenetserver/Giganews) are not going down without a massive fight.
IF they go down, P2P/IRC (which is a PITA to use) is going to just explode.
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It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. | |
| | |  ztmikeMark for moderationPremium
join:2001-08-02
Michigan City, IN
1 edit | Re: Easy Target said by elwoodblues:I disagree, there is all of money invested in hardware/bandwidth. The big 3 (Newshosting/Usenetserver/Giganews) are not going down without a massive fight. IF they go down, P2P/IRC (which is a PITA to use) is going to just explode. While I agree with that. There are so many private torrent sites out there it makes usenet look like a drop in the bucket. RIAA can go after one, but there are 3523352533 more to take its place.
RIAA is fighting something that it CAN'T win. They are wasting their money and time, they should be looking at their business model.
Edit: Torrents are not a "pain in the ass to use" their actually quite simple. Not sure where you got that idea from? | |
| | | | | | Re: Easy Target While I agree with your premise... I say: Let the RIAA blow as much money as they like on trying to kill Usenet. They only speed up their eventual demise by blowing money like this. | |
| | | | | | EXACTLY ztmike. They're about as progressive as GM was in the 1980s when looking to the future. My dad used to work in that industry and it's just become a terrible wasteland of know-nothings.
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People who don't get good service on average tell 10 others while people who do get good service on average tell 1. | |
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|  Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | said by Matt:News group providers are an easy target for the RIAA/MPAA and I'm not surprised they are going after them to get a few wins under their belt. It will be MUCH easier to force this industry to drop obviously illegal newsgroups -- which will completely kill the industry as a whole because let's face it, who really needs an unlimited usenet account unless you're doing something illegal? No details released yet on what sanctions will be levied against Usenet and how much the RIAA wins in the case.
»www.p2pnet.net/story/24309
matter referred to the Magistrate Judge for determination of damages and an appropriate injunction,” says Recording Industry vs The People. The RIAA is on a winning streak lately. Jammie Thomas loses AGAIN. The Pirate Bay sells out. And now Usenet, which many thought untouchable, loses big in court. Lots of comments by The Pirate Bay Users about going to Usenet - Uh Oh.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | | Re: Easy Target They be winning a couple of battles but they are certainly losing the war, With CD sales slumping like they are...forecast at "$23 billion in 2009, down 16 percent from 2006 and far below the forecast of $45 billion in 1997" ( »www.marketingcharts.com/topics/e···ump-281/ ) the RIAA is becoming a shell of what they used to be. In many ways they remind me of At&t, retaining the lobbiests and lawyers but not adapting their business model. In the 10 years I've cited, you now have a new generation that listens to free music under independant labels broadcast over the web. The RIAA has lost these potential customers forever. And as bad as Jammie Thomas' defense looks, the RIAA still appears worse in that case. if the RIAA were smart, they'd let her off the hook to avoid the appearance of a faceless corporation demanding $80,000.00 per song from a single mother, because thats how its being portrayed.
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BF69~~~Please stop suffocating gerbils! | |
| | | | Romney2012Defeat Obama 2012-Chg we can believe inPremium
join:2002-03-03
USA
kudos:4 | Re: Easy Target said by S_engineer:if the RIAA were smart, they'd let her off the hook to avoid the appearance of a faceless corporation demanding $80,000.00 per song from a single mother, because thats how its being portrayed. They tried to let her off with a minimal settlement multiple times. She won't go along. So the dance continues.
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My BLOG .. .. Internet News .. .. My Web Page | |
| | | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | I think CD sales are slumping because of the myriad of legal ways to purchase music online. Now that the two largest, iTunes and the Amazon MP3 store, are DRM free, CD sales will only continue to plummet.
As far as any Usenet provider being able to put up a fight, not on your life. Unlike the murky area with hosting torrents vs. files, the Usenet providers host the infringing material on their own servers. So, the RIAA could win a judgement that requires all Usenet providers to block say, alt.binaries and then when the pirates move to some other hierarchy, the RIAA would only have to send a takedown notice.
I'm not saying that's how it will play out, but that is how simple it is. There is no gray area here. | |
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| | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by Romney2012:And now Usenet, which many thought untouchable, loses big in court. "Usenet" did not lose in court. "Usenet" was not sued. "Usenet" != "Usenet.com". "Usenet" is the generic name for the whole of the NNTP service. Suing "Usenet" is like trying to sue "The Internet"!
"Usenet.com" was sued, and lost. "Usenet.com" is an NNTP service provider. There are other NNTP service providers; and whether they will be sued, or not, would depend upon how they react to, or cooperate with, the RIAA/MPAA.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
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| nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by Matt:News group providers are an easy target for the RIAA/MPAA and I'm not surprised they are going after them to get a few wins under their belt. It will be MUCH easier to force this industry to drop obviously illegal newsgroups -- which will completely kill the industry as a whole because let's face it, who really needs an unlimited usenet account unless you're doing something illegal? Pr0n. Hell, the oldes usenet binaries groups are the a.b.p.e hierarchy.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
| | | MattAll noise, no signal.Premium
join:2003-07-20
Jamestown, NC
kudos:12 | Re: Easy Target said by nixen:said by Matt:News group providers are an easy target for the RIAA/MPAA and I'm not surprised they are going after them to get a few wins under their belt. It will be MUCH easier to force this industry to drop obviously illegal newsgroups -- which will completely kill the industry as a whole because let's face it, who really needs an unlimited usenet account unless you're doing something illegal? Pr0n. Hell, the oldes usenet binaries groups are the a.b.p.e hierarchy. Agreed, but most of that is also illegal. The adult industry just (as far as I can tell) doesn't care about copyright infringement. | |
| | | | nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Easy Target said by Matt:said by nixen:said by Matt:News group providers are an easy target for the RIAA/MPAA and I'm not surprised they are going after them to get a few wins under their belt. It will be MUCH easier to force this industry to drop obviously illegal newsgroups -- which will completely kill the industry as a whole because let's face it, who really needs an unlimited usenet account unless you're doing something illegal? Pr0n. Hell, the oldes usenet binaries groups are the a.b.p.e hierarchy. Agreed, but most of that is also illegal. The adult industry just (as far as I can tell) doesn't care about copyright infringement. Two reasons: 1) *ALL* the sites steal content from each other (I worked for this one douche who registered a thousand sites, not one of which had original content); and, 2) lawsuits are public record and very few people want their neighbors to know what they do that allows them to buy the fancy new car or house when, clearly, their jobs wouldn't allow it ("I ..uhh.. made some really good investments in the stock market!").
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
| | | | |  BonezXBasement DwellerPremium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | Re: Easy Target here's a general question, couldn't the RIAA/MPAA be dinged under the same restrictions that Microsoft was nailed under a while ago for creating a monopoly ? being they pretty much "own" music and video forms, now they are cornering the market on lawyers and general abuse to customers. | |
| | | | | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Easy Target RIAA/MPAA are not "for profit businesses". They are associations of several of the same. If it could be proven that the RIAA/MPAA members were acting in collusion to fix prices, they would surely be smacked down under Federal antitrust laws. Gotta have proof for that, though. Trade associations usually just act as a unified supporter of whatever trades they represent. RIAA/MPAA are much the same thing as trade associations.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
| | | | | | | BonezXBasement DwellerPremium
join:2004-04-13
Canada
1 edit | Re: Easy Target in the end though, they are making money off of all this, they are being paid as an executor of the "labels" that are part of their trade association.
so essentially they could be considered an association of lawyers ie: law firm, which could put them under the reach of anti-trust laws.
don't they also act as a legislating body as well ?
OK somethings looking a couple ways screwed up about these two groups. | |
| | | | | | | | NormanSPremium,MVM
join:2001-02-14
San Jose, CA
kudos:4 Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| Re: Easy Target said by BonezX:in the end though, they are making money off of all this, they are being paid as an executor of the "labels" that are part of their trade association. so essentially they could be considered an association of lawyers ie: law firm, which could put them under the reach of anti-trust laws. Only if they were acting to set prices of the music of the members of the association.
don't they also act as a legislating body as well ?
Only in the sense that any lobbying organization, such as the National Rifle Association, can be considered as "acting as a legislative body". They are lobbyists, in this sense, nothing more. The legislation is still being done by the actual legislators.
OK somethings looking a couple ways screwed up about these two groups.
What is most screwed up is that they are trying to lure the government into using law enforcement agencies to enforce civil actions. While it is generally acceptable to use a local sheriff to enforce a judgement, it is not generally acceptable to use the resources of the local law enforcement agencies, or state, or federal, for that matter, to investigate civil complaints. Those agencies should reserve their scarce resources for investigation of criminal complaints.
OTOH, given the nature of the way the RIAA/MPAA works, I am still surprised that nobody has considered filing a RICO complaint against them.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum | |
| | | | | | | | | BonezXBasement DwellerPremium
join:2004-04-13
Canada | Re: Easy Target some of what they do and how they do it could fall under RICO | |
| | | | | | | | | nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | said by NormanS:OTOH, given the nature of the way the RIAA/MPAA works, I am still surprised that nobody has considered filing a RICO complaint against them. Heh: thanks for saving me from having to point that out.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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| |  pokesphIt Is Almost FastPremium
join:2001-06-25
Sacramento, CA
kudos:1 | the first rule of usenet is..
you don't talk about usenet. | |
| | | nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Glad they got nailed... said by pog:perp throwing bags of coke out the car window while being pursued by police. LOL! Only these guys were overboarding bags of bits?
said by pog:I'm glad because it establishes that not all downloaders are, in fact, freeloaders. Many will pay $19/month for content. There is that. Then again, services like Rhapsody did that, as well.
said by pog:Finally, I'm glad because I've always hated binary groups. They never belonged in Usenet... just my opinion. More a rec.pets.cats fan?
Seriously, the entire "alt" hierarchy was pretty much rubbish. But it was *fun* rubbish.
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
| | |  pogPremium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| Re: Glad they got nailed... said by nixen:There is that. Then again, services like Rhapsody did that, as well. Rhapsody is cheaper, I think... but it's also bit narrower. Usenet.com offered not only millions of MP3s... but all your favorite movies, apps, games, ebooks, etc too.
said by nixen:Seriously, the entire "alt" hierarchy was pretty much rubbish. But it was *fun* rubbish. Heh... I used to have lots of fun in alt.atheism (or was it alt.atheist?) and many others.
For usability (in many ways), web forums are better... but everything is so fragmented now... there are so many little forums all over the place, each with their own resident ____s. I miss having a central place to find the main kooks, experts, etc.
Usenet had/has many failings... apart from binaries ...but one of the nice things was the lack of private ownership/control of content. I like posting here... don't get me wrong ...but I am under no illusions that I am free to post as I please, on any topic, with any information, answerable only to myself (and legal authorities, of course). With usenet, I don't think we've ever before seen such an accessible, virtually insuppressible, widely-read venue for free speech... and I don't think we'll ever see it again.
Yeah, I realize usenet's still around... it's just far less accessible (for many) and doesn't have nearly the readership it once had. The web's bells/whistles is partially responsible for this but outfits like usenet.com are also to blame.
Heh... just glorifying the past a bit, I guess.
--
My Site | |
| | | | nixenRockin' the BoxenPremium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA | Re: Glad they got nailed... said by pog:Rhapsody is cheaper, I think... but it's also bit narrower. Unfortunately, that's the failing of all the services. No one seems to understand the whole "if you build it, they will come" when it comes to deep offerings. Everybody worries about establishing recurring revenue, but then don't do the things necessary content to foster it.
said by pog:Usenet.com offered not only millions of MP3s... but all your favorite movies, apps, games, ebooks, etc too. Yeah, if you don't mind downloading a 1000-part file (only to discover that three of the parts have expired off your INN server's spool).
said by pog:Heh... I used to have lots of fun in alt.atheism (or was it alt.atheist?) and many others. They were all flame-fests (especially alt.flame) at one point or another. Just that, over the years, they became utterly unusable due to spammers and velveta'ers.
said by pog:For usability (in many ways), web forums are better... Particularly from the spam-control standpoint. Usenet readability was greatly fostered by things like s/t/rn and regex'able killfiles.
said by pog:but everything is so fragmented now... there are so many little forums all over the place, each with their own resident ____s. I miss having a central place to find the main kooks, experts, etc. Yup. I used to use the comp.* hierarchy quite a bit. Was a great resource for both getting and distributing information. And the information was often far more "in depth" than what most of the modern forums seem to get into. It's kind of like going from swimming in the ocean to swimming in the kiddie-pool.
said by pog:Usenet had/has many failings... apart from binaries ...but one of the nice things was the lack of private ownership/control of content. I like posting here... don't get me wrong ...but I am under no illusions that I am free to post as I please, on any topic, with any information, answerable only to myself (and legal authorities, of course). With usenet, I don't think we've ever before seen such an accessible, virtually insuppressible, widely-read venue for free speech... and I don't think we'll ever see it again. especialy when anon.penet.fi was still usable and still actually anonymous.
said by pog:Yeah, I realize usenet's still around... it's just far less accessible (for many) and doesn't have nearly the readership it once had. The web's bells/whistles is partially responsible for this but outfits like usenet.com are also to blame.
And it doesn't help that most ISPs have simply dropped it - requiring that you go the commercial route. Plus, the vast size of it - much of it pointless and pointlessly repetitious - means that it's not practical to set yourself up as a leaf-node unless you feel like spooling a lot of empty groups or groups that *only* get spam.
said by pog:Heh... just glorifying the past a bit, I guess. Yeah. Used to be a lot of fun to send out various NEWGROUP and RMGROUP messages (and other spoofy fun to be had). Too bad they locked those down. It particularly amuses me that what used to be B!FF-speak has been rebranded as 1337-speak (and losing it's irony in the process).
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The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. -- Bertrand Russell | |
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|  GooberPremium
join:2000-12-17
Naperville, IL
kudos:4 | said by pog:Finally, I'm glad because I've always hated binary groups. They never belonged in Usenet... just my opinion. Wow. That horse left the barn 20+ years ago. | |
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 TigerLordResident pentaxianPremium,Mod
join:2002-06-09
Montreal
kudos:6 | Try winning against Giganews and then come back to me.
Insignificant victory once again. | |
| | | | Re: usenet.com? Their just trying to set precedent enough before they go after the bigger players. | |
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 major marcoRes Firma Mitescere NescitPremium
join:2003-02-13
Stepford, CA | quote:
In a statement, the RIAA lauds the courts for taking action against Usenet.com's "egregious litigation misconduct."
Pot, meet Kettle. | |
| | | How about some real facts. The few company employees left were sent to Europe because the company feared losing them. RIAA lawyers were hitting hard on employees with threats of civil lawsuits because some had downloaded music illegally during company time which is strictly prohibited by company policy. Those employees had already lost their jobs once found out. Don't be so quick to side with the recording business. You may be next.No hard drives were erased. Company policy has been and always been to erase non essential storage after so many months | |
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