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story category Redefining 'Mobile Home'
Verizon users still fighting CO measurements
(old news - 10:45AM Thursday Sep 02 2004)
tags: dsl
Adventures in loop lengths continue for many Verizon users, after the company modified their method of determining a user's distance from the central office. This user claims he was incorrectly downgraded to slower speeds not once, but twice - and is still jumping through hoops via Verizon presidential appeals to get his connection corrected. When Verizon upgraded upstream speeds last May, many users suddenly reported they were anywhere from two to six thousand feet further from the CO, presumably because the telco implemented a more accurate measuring method.

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Forums » Redefining 'Mobile Home'
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Post a:

technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA

...

If a lil icon can say it all.. this would be it.

2lil2latebuddy

@optonline.net

Re: ...

I switched to cable after they told me that i'm like a few feet too much and they weren't gonna even try the faster speeds and run a test on the line... 1.5mbit was supposed to be acceptable to 18,000 feet and i'm like 17,XXX (debatable on the laste couple of hundred feet because:
a. they're too stupid to count
b. use a "signal strength to assess digital loop quality in estimated feet" so actual feet might not correspond to signal strength feet
c. they split your line to sell two 768kbits connections instead of one 1.5mbit connection-- believe it, they do it to maximize revenue.
d. i'm taking my business to a better company!
Bye

DaveNJ
No Fear

join:1999-09-01
New Jersey

presidental appeals ?

i would just go with cable, rather then dealing with "presidental appeals" Usually cable has business packages that are comparable.
--
Go back to HS, just start a political discussion. It will be just like you were a kid!

fire100_old
Premium
join:2002-08-09
Michigan
clubs:

Nothing more accurate than a Map

Just find the address of your closest CO on the CO finder here.

Then goto Mapquest.com get your mileage.

Then use the free tool Convert to convert Mileage into Feet.

thewolfman

join:2003-04-03
Niagara Falls, NY
clubs:

Re: Nothing more accurate than a Map

It isn't that easy. Mapquest mileage cannot be used due to the way telephone wire is routed. Maybe in rare cases it would work, but not the majority.
lesopp

join:2001-06-27
Land O Lakes, FL

Re: Nothing more accurate than a Map

Amen to that, but its not just Verizon. I think it a collusive effort by the Bells. I have a remote office, in Louisiana, that according to map quest and initial telco estimates was 11750 feet from the CO. This office is on the same road as the CO. We had a problem that only happened with heavy rains. Reported the problem and now the office is 17950 feet away.

rstrandb
Premium
join:2003-04-17
Albany, GA

Re: Nothing more accurate than a Map

The must have run you on a new copper pair which is routed differently, that's why your line feet changed. You might inquire and ask if they can remove any bridge taps, this could shorten your distance greatly.
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28


Or just type it into Google! (e.g., "2.54 miles in feet")

Also, conventional wisdom is that crows-flies distances (or worse, the driving distance you recommend) is not directly relatable to the real world mess that is the copper phone system.

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function

technick
Premium
join:2000-12-16
Loganville, GA
The CO Finder is useless, it doesn't list the remote CO that is in my area, if I follow all the information that DSL Reports shows, then I wouldn't even be able to get DSL in my area. I enjoy 3 megs of service in my area.....
B
Premium,MVM
join:2000-10-28

Re: Nothing more accurate than a Map


Understood, but "doesn't work for you" doesn't even come CLOSE to meaning "useless"!!

The CO Finder at DSLR is a godsend for many, many people investigating broadband. I'm quite grateful for it.

-- B
--
In a realm outside causality and function

techguyga
MCSE, DCSE
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Cumming, GA

Are you talking about an RT/DSLAM? I didn't know they had "remote CO's".

If you live in one of the BellSouth served areas, check out this spreadsheet that lists operational and proposed RTs and their street addresses...

»www.bellsouth.com/broadband/dsl_···rtal.xls
webgoddess

join:2004-09-02
Murfreesboro, TN

Re: Nothing more accurate than a Map

can someone help me interpret that bellsouth spreadsheet? I don't see any actual dates on it. Everything in that column says RT.

Thanks!
Jeanne
lestat99

join:2000-08-04
Piscataway, NJ

Loop lengh is not measured in a straight line from your house to the CO. You have to account for how the cables are actually routed which is almost never a straight line. Your cable can make a "round about" town even though the CO is down the block.

The key is how long is the physical copper loop from your house to the CO not how far your house is from the CO.
--
Info Network Security:»www.packetdefense.com
danknight

join:2001-07-27
Methuen, MA

Another thing that affects loop length is bridge taps. As the phone company rarely knows exactly where every cable pair is going to be used in town. they branch them off so a cable pair has multiple appearances in the Town. they also 'load' long loops with inductor coils in parallel to compensate for the capacitance that results from long pairs of wires. this is great for POTS lines but horrible for digital. Both of these factors increases the electrical loop length.

MadDog3057
Ex Astris, Scientia
Premium
join:2002-02-26
Miami, FL

Maybe it's not a mobile home after all....

...maybe it's just a Mobile CO!

pende_tim
Premium
join:2004-01-04
Andover, NJ

Reason based in Geology

I still go with the Tectonic plate shift theory as to why houses are moving.

CPM

join:2001-08-24
Miami, FL

Re: Reason based in Geology

:P

zoom314
Superman
Premium
join:2001-04-30
Yermo, CA


1 edit

Re: Reason based in Geology

said by CPM See Profile:
:P

It's a lower case p, Not an upper case P, I tried doing It the way You did, didn't work. But here It is:

But in any case back on topic, I agree.

Morac

join:2001-08-30
Riverside, NJ
·Comcast

I'm confused

If where you are located used to get the maximum speeds does it really matter if you are now technically 500 feet further than what Verizon claims is the maximum distance they can provide that speed at.

It seems like Verizon should just adjust their maximum distance since that's obviously a conservative estimate. Either that or just provision everyone for the maximum speed and let customers get what they will get.
--

The Comcast Disney Avatar has been retired.
kd6cae
P2p Shouldn't Be A Crime

join:2001-08-27
Lancaster, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·DSL EXTREME

Re: I'm confused

I agree. If someone orders say 3000/768 and they are 11,700 feet from the CO, why they'll still get a decent speed increase even if they're upgrading from 1.5M/128K! I know this for a fact because back at my old location, I was at 11724 feet from my local cO. I had them run a test to see what the max my modem to connect at was. Turns out from where I was my sync rate was 3168/672 and my throughput was about 2.2MBPS down and 540KBPS up. Now granted I had known the guy that did the test for a bit, as I'd worked with him when I had DSL line issues in the past, but the point here in my book is Verizon shouldn't say that oh you can't get it just because they moved your house to just outside the border limit! Rather than going on what just the database says, they should actually provision your modem for whatever package you request and if you request 3000/768, normally provisioned at 3360/864 to account for ATM overhead, and you connect up at 2700/512, then so be it! You still have better speeds than you had before. Even when I briefly had 7.1M/768K at this location, which I believe is provisioned at 7800/864, I connected at anywhere from 6500 to 7040KBPs to the CO depending on line conditions and such. But did I complain that I wasn't getting my exact downstream speed, heck no, with an average throughput of 5.7MBPs, I was happy. I now have 3M/768K only due to price, but if 7MB was the same price, oh yeah I'd get it.
krobar
Is this thing on?

join:2002-09-15
Columbus, OH

failing to take into account....

You all are also failing to take into account the gauge of the wiring between the home and the CO. As I understand it from the ASI techs I've dealt with, they measure distance based on a certain gauge wire, say 24 gauge just for arguments sake, so if a smaller or large gauge is used at any point the electrical resistance (which btw is WHY there's a "distance" limitation) is going to be different than if it was the same size wire the entire distance.

Having said that the only possible reason I can think of for the "moving" houses is that they're measuring based on a different gauge of cable, which would make your same loop appear to be longer than it used to be.
--
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
dsless

join:2001-05-16
Pittsburgh, PA

Re: failing to take into account....

Hooked my sister up with Verizon. Start out with 1.5/128. Called and said upgrade to 1.5/384 and the said fine. She was 8000 ft from the CO. Well tried the download speed and it when to 768/128. Called tech support, said call billing. Called billing said call tech support. Supervisor a tech support said here would take car of it. Sister still at 768/128 and was running fine at 1.5/128. Now they say she is at 16500 ft. Thanks verizon, you bunch of losers.

aitech
Guru. Kneel

join:2000-12-19
Boston, MA
clubs:

Just give it to them, and see what it connects at!

How difficult is this?

Provision the 3000/768 service, tell the customer it is "best-effort" service and they might not get 3000/768 because of their distance from the CO falling outside of maximum range, and see what they sync with.

End of story, this would make everyone happy!

What's the issue!?
--
RCN 5000/800. Rock solid, always hit 5000 down. GO NYY!

HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs:


1 edit

They have a fix for it

If you are further than the 18K distance then they use a Remote Terminal from a substation (those large green or brown & tan boxes) and you can then receive the higher speeds.

They had to do that for me after a local in town move in which the distance was greater than 18k feet.
--

******* Just make it work! *******



techguyga
MCSE, DCSE
Premium
join:2003-12-31
Cumming, GA

Re: They have a fix for it

Only if an RT is available, your loop length to the RT qualifies, and you have a clean pair to the RT. It's not as simple as just moving to an RT setup.

HFB1217
The Wizard
Premium,ExMod 2000-01
join:2000-06-26
Camelot
clubs:


That is true you must be with in the qualifying distance from the remote terminal to have use of it.

Sorry I didn't make that clear earlier. Thanks for the correction.

Hank
HFB1217
--
******* Just make it work! *******

dslwanter
Why would I want DSL? I have FTTH
Premium
join:2002-12-16
Lowellville, OH
·Armstrong Zoom In..
·AT&T Midwest

Loops are crap.

Basically it's like this, you order DSL and if it works great, if not oh well nothing you can do if it's distance. So you're 20k at first, big deal. They remove the load coils and bridge taps all of the sudden you're 11k like me. I have been told my loop length is everything from 23k to 19.4k to 15.9k to 12.3k to 11k, something different every time. I would say they should try to condition the line and see what happens, if it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't.

After my situation, I don't trust any loop length I'm told because it's a different one every time.

I don't understand how Verizon would lower someones speeds if they were running just fine with it, sounds like Verizon made a boo-boo.
--
Maaaannn you wanna come in the garage and see my merchandise?
Forums » Redefining 'Mobile Home'


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